"Life Without Bread"

Lost Spirit said:
For myself and my wife, we've been gluten free for quite a while now and on the rare occasion we cheat (spring rolls at the company christmas party come to mind) we pay the price...but differently. I have issues for a few days with the "tail end" of things, and she gets migraines. And technically neither of us are celiac.

I can relate to this Lost Spirit! I was recently overseas (where GMO crops/grains are not being used) and a few cheats caused a definite slow down of things at the "tail end". It seems it takes days, if not weeks, to rid the body of grains. I always swear, I'll never touch the stuff again! You'd think I'd learn by now and have stronger will power. :rolleyes:

So whether gluten/grains are GMO or nonGMO, soaked or not soaked, the body has to work like hell to rid itself of them. If you are on a steady diet of grains, these subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) effects will likely not be noticed. So Crystal Clear, if you have never totally removed gluten from your diet and then re-introduced it, you will probably not notice the difference. You may want to give it a try or not. Up to you.
 
Crystal clear said:
am not saying that lost spirit is agreeing with me...i only agree with her some of it....well am aware what are u talking about the thread...i still stand by my opinion...and i rest my case here....thank you......

We have a forum thread about opinions.
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,3925.0.html

You might want to read it. Bottom line is: an opinion is not much different from brainwashing and blind belief.
 
Crystal clear said:
Ok ill try. Thank u lilou!..I feel stupid for misunderstood of lost spirit remark...

No need to feel stupid, we are all learning and doing our best to gain knowledge and understanding. As long as your cup is not full (meaning you are open to learning new information and applying it), I do not see a problem.

I love this quote, just wish I could apply it more often in my own life. I often learn things the hard way!

A wise man learns from his mistakes. A genius learns from the mistakes of others.
 
Lost Spirit said:
I've been noticing that there are more articles coming out lately about how paleo/Atkins/carb-free/bread-free diets are a "dangerous fad". I'm sure I've read at least two that talked about how gluten is necessary for the vast majority of humans, and this craze about going gluten free is going to have dire consequences.

I'd be curious to know who's funding the articles.

Sure, if you replace wheat bread with gluten-free bread, you're replacing something 100% evil with only 80% evil, but it's still nasty to your system. It's like saying "one drop of arsenic is better than two drops!" Uh huh.

For myself and my wife, we've been gluten free for quite a while now and on the rare occasion we cheat (spring rolls at the company christmas party come to mind) we pay the price...but differently. I have issues for a few days with the "tail end" of things, and she gets migraines. And technically neither of us are celiac.

I still believe that a sick, worried, non-smoking, agitated populace is a yummy snack for the PTB. If they're going to feed on me I'm going to make damned sure they choke.

It certainly looks like Big-Agra, and the PTB, not that they are actually different, are trying to do major damage control. And, that's a shame, as so many people are so addicted to grains, dairy and sugar, that they will grasp at anything to make it look like eating grains and these other things are okay and those who say they aren't are nut jobs. Just like any other thing the PTB want people to disbelieve in.

It could be that Big-Agra is getting a bit worried as so many people are starting to learn the truth about grains and how dangerous they are.
 
Lost Spirit said:
...I'd be curious to know who's funding the articles...

The grain industry, of course. You can "learn" all you are supposed to know at _http://www.grainsforyourbrain.org. If I understand correctly, this website appeared around the time that the book Grain Brain was about to be published, according to comments made by the author, Dr. David Perlmutter. The name of the site, obviously, was chosen so that it would come up in searches for the book title.

See the 'about' page for information about who is behind the website. For factual information about grains you will have to look elsewhere since there isn't any to be found on the website. You can find references to flawed studies, if that would somehow help.
 
Laura said:
...It was a bad idea because there was enough flour thickener in the sauce that got into my system that I was in pain (auto-immune reaction) for over a week...

Autoimmune issues can really complicate things, and I am not aware of any simple fix. There is a lot of interesting (maybe even fascinating) information coming out about about autoimmune issues and the microbiome, but my impression is that even in alternative medicine circles, treatment strategies are in an early stage of evolution. Avoiding triggers, even in small amounts, is critical.

The idea of deliberately eating ANYTHING with gluten, like a bread of any kind, is not even on my radar anymore.

I think that is a good strategy for everyone. If you have autoimmune issues, you have GOT to do that, but not all autoimmune symptoms are visible, and not everyone that has them knows it. There are much better lab tests available now, for those that want to take that approach, but no lab test is perfect.

The problem with restaurants, of course, is that they are typically saturated with gluten-containing and other problematic "foods," and even a plain piece of meat can be accidentally contaminated with flour or bread crumbs. And if any of that is an autoimmune trigger for you, a tiny amount may be enough to restart the inflammatory cascade.
 
Here, for people with gut problems, is a podcast with Dr Allison Siebecker, the topic is small intestine bacterial overgrowth. (SIBO) Here's some info in plain language:

_http://oneradionetwork.com/health/allison-siebecker-nd-small-intestine-bacterial-overgrowth-sibo-november-12-2013/

Allison Siebecker, ND, MSOM, LAc is a 2005 graduate of National College of Natural Medicine, where she earned both her Naturopathic Doctorate and Masters in Oriental Medicine. She has worked in the nutritional field since 1988 and taught on the subjects of gastroenterology, endocrinology, nutrition and natural beauty treatments. Since 2009 she has focused her practice on Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO). She is the author of an educational website on SIBO, is currently writing a book on SIBO and teaches continuing education to physicians on SIBO and related topics. In 2005, Dr Siebecker received the Best in Naturopathy award from the Townsend Letter for her article “Traditional Bone Broth in Modern Health and Disease.”

What is SIBO?

Simply put, Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth is a chronic bacterial infection of the small intestine. The infection is of bacteria that normally live in the gastrointestinal tract but have abnormally overgrown in a location not meant for so many bacteria.

The Problem

The bacteria interfere with our normal digestion and absorption of food and are associated with damage to the lining or membrane of the SI (leaky gut syndrome, which I prefer to call leaky SI in this case).

•They consume some of our food which over time leads to deficiencies in their favorite nutrients such as iron and B12, causing anemia.

•They consume food unable to be absorbed due to SI lining damage, which creates more bacterial overgrowth (a vicious cycle).

•After eating our food, they produce gas/ expel flatus, within our SI. The gas causes abdominal bloating, abdominal pain, constipation, diarrhea or both (the symptoms of IBS). Excess gas can also cause belching and flatulence.

•They decrease proper fat absorption by deconjugating bile leading to deficiencies of vitamins A & D and fatty stools.

•Through the damaged lining, larger food particles not able to be fully digested, enter into the body which the immune system reacts to. This causes food allergies/ sensitivities.

•Bacteria themselves can also enter the body/bloodstream. Immune system reaction to bacteria and their cell walls (endotoxin) causes chronic fatigue and body pain and burdens the liver.

•Finally, the bacteria excrete acids which in high amounts can cause neurological and cognitive symptoms.

There's other downloadables too including, candida overgrowth. (CO)

More, this time Dr Siebecker discusses dysbiosis, SIBO, the gut/brain connection serotonin & more. This is a podcast on the "Dr 'Lo' Radio" show.

_http://www.blogtalkradio.com/drloradio/2013/12/04/the-digestion-fix-with-dr-allison-siebecker

Finally, a series of clips from an interview she did with Carl Lanore about the prevalence of IBS and SIBO on her YouTube channel. _http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=c4-feed-u&v=PqdmGy0CwAo

Probably better to just subscribe to the channel & see some of the more longer, in-depth videos.
 
I've been reading up a bit on SIBO after Nora mentioned it in her interview with SOTT Radio and it seems even within the sphere of Paleo or ketogenic diets, we still need to be extra careful on what kind of carbs we are eating and how they are cooked. Nora mentioned boiling and steaming vegetables and the GAPS diet talked about in the article said the same things in regards to meat. I looked up the SCD diet and some of what are on the allowed list still causes inflammation and gut irritation so I wouldn't follow it too closely. I agree with Paleomom, to kind of eliminate something for a little while then add it back in and see how you feel.

http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/07/modifying-paleo-small-intestinal.html

Modifying Paleo for Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth

Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (or SIBO) is a chronic bacterial (and/or yeast) infection of the small intestine, characterized by excessive number and/or abnormal type of bacteria (and yeast) growing in a part of the gastrointestinal tract that normal contains relatively few microorganisms. These bacteria can cause a variety of problems by interfering with digestion and absorption of nutrients and by damaging the lining of the gut, causing a “leaky gut” (I addressed the many health problems that can arise from a leaky gut in this post).

The most common symptoms of bacterial overgrowth include abdominal pain, nausea, bloating, gas, belching, flatulence, chronic diarrhea, and chronic constipation. These symptoms are due to the large volume of bacteria the digestive tract (alive and dead, as they read the end of their lifecycle) and the large amount of gas and metabolic waste that they produce. Many more symptoms of SIBO are a direct effect of nutrient malabsorption. This arises either from the bacteria metabolizing those nutrients before we can absorb them or by the bacteria causing enough inflammation in the lining of the gut that it the gut can’t work properly anymore. For example, the bacteria preferentially consume iron and vitamin B12, causing anemia. The bacteria decrease fat absorption by deconjugating bile leading to deficiencies of vitamins A & D and causing steatorrhea (fatty stools). As the gut lining becomes increasingly inflamed and leaky, larger and not fully digested food particles enter the body, causing an immune reaction which leads to food allergies and food sensitivities. Bacteria themselves can enter the blood stream causing systemic inflammation and immune reactions that can lead to autoantibody formation and autoimmune diseases (for a comprehensive review article see the footnote).

SIBO was only described in the late 1990s and is still grossly underdiagnosed. This is partly because many patients don’t seek medical attention for their SIBO symptoms, because many doctors aren’t aware of its prevalence and don’t consider it in their differential diagnostics, and because the tests for SIBO still have fairly high false negative rates (where you have the disease but the test says you don’t). As SIBO becomes more recognized, it is also becoming inextricably linked with many other diseases. Many physicians and scientists now believe that Irritable Bowel Syndrome (the cause of which has never been properly defined) is actually a group of symptoms caused by SIBO (see the book The New IBS Solution). SIBO is also often associated with Crohn’s disease, Celiac disease, short bowel disease, various liver diseases, fibromyalgia, some autoimmune diseases (such as scleroderma, diabetes, lymphoma, and chronic lymphocytic leukemia and the aforementioned Crohn’s disease and Celiac Disease) and even rosacea (for a fantastic summary of confirmed related diseases, see http://www.siboinfo.com/associated-diseases.html). Whether SIBO is a causal factor or a symptom of these diseases remains to be determined. Given how new all of this science is (and how prevalent SIBO actually is!), I suspect that over the next few years many more health conditions will linked with SIBO.

You can opt to get tested (there are several different test options which can be ordered by your primary care physician), however How do you know if you have SIBO? If you have digestive symptoms, especially if they persist after adopting a strict paleo diet, SIBO is a possibility. know that the current testing methods are not 100% reliable. One of the easiest ways to determine whether you have SIBO is to see if diet modifications aimed at treating it make you feel better.

How can you fix SIBO? There are two diets (very similar to each other) that have been developed with the intention of starving the bacteria in the small intestine and healing the damaged lining of the gut. These are the GAPS (Gut and Psychology Syndrome) diet(see Gut and Psychology Syndrome) and the SCD (SpecificCarbohydrate Diet) diet (see Breaking the Vicious Cycle). The general approach to these diets is to eliminate any dietary sugars that are not monosaccharides. Monosaccharides are simple sugars like glucose and fructose and are the most easily absorbed in the digestive tract. More complex sugar molecules like sucrose (i.e., table sugar which is a disaccharide) and starches have to be broken down into monosaccharides before they can be absorbed. This means that the sugar takes longer to be digested, which means it travels farther down the digestive tract before being completely absorbed, which means that some of it reaches the abnormal bacteria growing in the small intestine and provides a food source for them. These diets also focus on consuming healing foods such as bone broth, conjugated linoleic acid found in the fats from grass-fed animals, and coconut oil. I recommend combining one of these diets with a paleo diet for the most rapid and effective reversal of SIBO.

A standard paleo diet is typically not enough to treat and reverse SIBO. Attention also needs to be paid to the amount and types of carbohydrates being consumed. I recommend following a paleo diet with modifications disallowing starchy vegetables and high sugar foods as per the SCD and GAPS diets (see my post Fruits and Starchy Vegetables with SmallIntestinal Bacterial Overgrowth). Many people may find taking Apple Cider Vinegar before meals (as outlined in TheStomach Acid Connection) is helpful. For more severe cases digestive supplements may be beneficial (I am not familiar enough with these to recommend a particular brand, type or dose. Recommendations can be found in The Paleo Solution, It Starts With Food, and this post from Chris Kresser. If you need personalized recommendations, I suggest contacting Diane Sanfilippo at www.balancedbites.com). You may also find some good information in my posts Repairing the Gut and What Should You Eat to Heal a Leaky Gut? I also want to mention that stress management is very important (see my post How Mood and Gut Health Are Linked). Homemade bone broth and a source of Vitamin D(sunshine, liver, supplement) are particularly important to promote healing. A). In extreme cases, a doctor may recommend a course of potent antibiotics followed source of diverse probiotics (from fermented foods like Sauerkraut,coconut milk kefir, or Kombucha and/or from a high quality supplement) help to restore normal gut microflora (it’s better to keep the dose of these beneficial bacteria on the low side, at least at first, since they can add to the high volume of bacteria and increase symptoms if you’re too aggressive by a gut-healing protocol (exactly what is outlined above) and probiotics. For those with symptoms indicating the early phases of autoimmune conditions (see my post You May Have an Autoimmune Disease But Don’t Know It), following the Autoimmune Protocol for the first 1-3 months may be very beneficial.

Correcting SIBO can take up to 2 years. However, you should see improvement in your symptoms fairly quickly with gradual and continuous improvement (if you don’t, it’s worthwhile considering a FODMAP sensitivity as a confounding factor, which I will be discussing in my an upcoming post). Stress, poor sleep, infections and poor diet choices can all create setbacks. It is always difficult to commit to more restrictive forms of a paleo diet (which can be tough enough as it is!). I have what I believe is a mild case of SIBO. Because I follow the Autoimmune Protocol, I rarely have issues now. However if I slip and eat a high carbohydrate food, I fairly rapidly suffer intense bloating followed by days of gas pains and constipation. It’s not fun to follow such a restrictive diet, but is it worth it!
 
If you've got hypochlorhydria it greatly increases your risk of SIBO. Hydrochloric acid sterilizes food before it enters the intestines.

Also you can't just take a digestive pill and think you're done. I had to take up to 14 HCl supplements at one time. Zinc supplements help with this as well, since zinc deficiency is a result of and can cause hypochlorhydria.
 
I just use bread with seeds. White bread is not good and less if you abuse it. The best flour is the integral along the fiber it provides.
 
Fluiscab said:
I just use bread with seeds. White bread is not good and less if you abuse it. The best flour is the integral along the fiber it provides.

Have you read any of this thread or the recommended reading associated with it? Based on the research, it would appear that the primary purpose of gluten, and especially wheat, is to damage humans and assist in making them crazy.
 
Fluiscab said:
I just use bread with seeds. White bread is not good and less if you abuse it. The best flour is the integral along the fiber it provides.

Hi Fluiscab, seeing as you are new to the forum, it's recommended that all new members write an introductory post here
 
Hello all!

I started with (what should be close to) paleo diet 3 months ago and have lost 18 kg (192 cm tall, before I had roughly 100 kg, blood type zero). Weight loss stopped some 15 days ago.
A few times before I started to read the important topics on diet but every time I got stuck on the measures (oz, cup) and words that I don’t know or recognize (mostly groceries names), so there was more to translate and I “got lost” every time. I know that I need as soon as possible read more about nutrition for my own safety and health. The problem is that the end of the year is near and extended job obligations won't decrease until end of February.

The food I eat comes down to: Bacon and eggs mostly, less often homegrown chicken meat, homemade cheese, occasionally some vegetables (mostly rice and cooked beans with celery and parsley) and fruits.
Until now I did not made bone broth.

Positive changes are that most of the time I feel very good, easy to move and I have a lot more energy. More clear thoughts (also doing EE 8 months). Problems with long-term skin ulcers on a couple places decreased but have not stopped yet.
Negative changes in these 3 months are often cold hands and feet (for the first time since I was a child; before diet I rarely felt coldness) and 5-6 times short-term exhaustion - slackness (I have not measured my blood-pressure but I think it is not up to pressure, I feel like my body lacks minerals and/or vitamins... missing bone broth or is it more connected with weight loss?). Also I take more sea salt than before paleo diet.

There are a few questions since I already have started with paleo diet so I hope someone can help me.

Hazelnut and almonds that I can buy are packed on production lines where the packing device has traces of gluten (left from other products that contains gluten - so in all packages of different products can be found trace amounts of gluten. Is it enough to wash hazelnut and almonds with water, would that eliminate gluten or could something else help (maybe baking soda)?

Herbal skin cream that I should use because skin ulcers contains one plant that is at preparation mixed with sunflower oil. The total amount of sunflower oil mixed with this plant makes about 5 % of the entire cream. I should use the cream three times daily. Does gluten from such creams wiped on the skin also make negative effect on our body same as digested or is gluten bad for us only if entered through food?

The most important question: What foods (beside the ones I use); supplements in addition to vitamin C and D and magnesium salts would be desirable/necessary/essential for optimal paleo diet? Which are missing in the food from ketogenic diet? If the answer would be long to write, can someone at least show me directly the appropriate post/posts because my currently obligations don't give me time to study the whole of important topics.

I download Sott radio shows after the end of broadcasting and then listen to them. At the end of SOTT radio show http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sottnet/2013/11/03/nora-gedgaudas-interview-beyond-paleo--primal-ice-age-diet
at 113 minutes and 40 seconds it was concluded that the situation is very rigorous (as I understand it), so that people on ketogenic diet should take daily animal fats as much as they want, up to 50 grams of protein and max. 5 grams carbohydrates or better - zero carbohydrates. It turns out that the variety and quantity of food (except fat) is even more limited. It is quite frustrating (subjectively, my thinking) but I intend to persevere with (correct) paleo diet and try to move on ketogenic diet.
 
Toda22,

I don't know if it's a good idea for you to go about doing such dietary experiments without fully understanding why and how to make the transitions all haphazardly, as has been said so many times here. You're still eating cheese, beans, and rice (most rice contains at least some gluten). Those would probably need to be eliminated next. Casein in most dairy products (except butter and ghee, pretty much) is just as big a problem as gluten, and also an addictive opium type substances (binding to the same receptors) like gluten, as well.

For those of us who can tolerate butter and ghee, not only there doesn't seem to be any damaging effects like inflammation after elimination and reintroduction, I've never had cravings to eat them like I had when eating grains and cheese and other dairy products.

Generally, gluten is bad even in very small quantities, and after completely eliminating it for a while, even if you eat something with trace amounts of contamination, you'll have a bad reaction (when your body gets its ability to let you know back by the elimination). Same with any body products that will have gluten enter through the skin, can have negative consequences. And it depends on just how sensitive/intolerant you are.

So if you want to try eliminating cheese, beans, and rice next, that's probably a good idea, but you need to be able to do these things slowly, methodically and with understanding. It's NOT a good idea to be eating a high fat diet while still consuming grains and beans and cheese, and even relatively high carbs above around 70 to 100 net grams. The lectins and anti-nutrients and carbs (for example 150 net grams per day) with still cause inflammation and general havoc in your system and oxidize and glycate the healthy fats and cholesterol.

So take these warnings seriously and proceed with caution and read everything you can to understand the why's and how's.
 
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