"Life Without Bread"

[lostinself]

Didn't read the paper in depth but the hypotesis looks interesting.

Comparison with ancestral diets suggests dense acellular carbohydrates promote an inflammatory microbiota, and may be the primary dietary cause of leptin resistance and obesity

Ian Spreadbury

Gastrointestinal Diseases Research Unit, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada

Abstract: A novel hypothesis of obesity is suggested by consideration of diet-related inflammation and evolutionary medicine. The obese homeostatically guard their elevated weight. In rodent models of high-fat diet-induced obesity, leptin resistance is seen initially at vagal afferents, blunting the actions of satiety mediators, then centrally, with gastrointestinal bacterial-triggered SOCS3 signaling implicated. In humans, dietary fat and fructose elevate systemic lipopolysaccharide, while dietary glucose also strongly activates SOCS3 signaling. Crucially however, in humans, low-carbohydrate diets spontaneously decrease weight in a way that low-fat diets do not. Furthermore, nutrition transition patterns and the health of those still eating diverse ancestral diets with abundant food suggest that neither glycemic index, altered fat, nor carbohydrate intake can be intrinsic causes of obesity, and that human energy homeostasis functions well without Westernized foods containing flours, sugar, and refined fats. Due to being made up of cells, virtually all "ancestral foods" have markedly lower carbohydrate densities than flour- and sugar-containing foods, a property quite independent of glycemic index. Thus the "forgotten organ" of the gastrointestinal microbiota is a prime candidate to be influenced by evolutionarily unprecedented postprandial luminal carbohydrate concentrations. The present hypothesis suggests that in parallel with the bacterial effects of sugars on dental and periodontal health, acellular flours, sugars, and processed foods produce an inflammatory microbiota via the upper gastrointestinal tract, with fat able to effect a "double hit" by increasing systemic absorption of lipopolysaccharide. This model is consistent with a broad spectrum of reported dietary phenomena. A diet of grain-free whole foods with carbohydrate from cellular tubers, leaves, and fruits may produce a gastrointestinal microbiota consistent with our evolutionary condition, potentially explaining the exceptional macronutrient-independent metabolic health of non-Westernized populations, and the apparent efficacy of the modern "Paleolithic" diet on satiety and metabolism.

_http://www.dovepress.com/comparison-with-ancestral-diets-suggests-dense-acellular-carbohydrates-peer-reviewed-article-DMSO

 

[clearmiddle]

Didn't read the paper in depth but the hypotesis looks interesting...

I expect that the causes of all this inflammation and metabolic disruption will eventually trace back to something like this, along with other environmental factors. It's not gong to make sense until gut and other microbes are factored in; I think they are a huge part of it.

I already had a copy of the paper from a year ago, so it may have been cited before here in the forum.

 

[Vic]

I just slipped up and had a pain-au-raisin in a cafe in Tesco. What an idiot! I had to walk out and wait in the car as the gluten did its toxic work - nausea and mild anxiety. I had been gluten free for many months. I can feel my stomach protesting as I type this.

Although I didn't need any more proof of the dangers of gluten I just got it.

 

[Ollie]

I just slipped up and had a pain-au-raisin in a cafe in Tesco. What an idiot! I had to walk out and wait in the car as the gluten did its toxic work - nausea and mild anxiety. I had been gluten free for many months. I can feel my stomach protesting as I type this.

Although I didn't need any more proof of the dangers of gluten I just got it.

And, as a reminder for increased vigilance from 'the dangers of gluten', remember that, that 'transient pleasure' of a gluten pain-au-raisin (with its associated effects) will take up to six months to depart from your system.

Ask yourself, is it worth it? Almost all processed food, especially from supermarket sources (cafes included), is toxic.

 

[Vic]

I just slipped up and had a pain-au-raisin in a cafe in Tesco. What an idiot! I had to walk out and wait in the car as the gluten did its toxic work - nausea and mild anxiety. I had been gluten free for many months. I can feel my stomach protesting as I type this.

Although I didn't need any more proof of the dangers of gluten I just got it.

And, as a reminder for increased vigilance from 'the dangers of gluten', remember that, that 'transient pleasure' of a gluten pain-au-raisin (with its associated effects) will take up to six months to depart from your system.

Ask yourself, is it worth it? Almost all processed food, especially from supermarket sources (cafes included), is toxic.

No, Prodigal Son, it is not worth it. And I hadn't thought of the point you just made - "...will take up to six months to depart from your system" I thank you for that. Although being reminded of that particular fact makes me feel quite fed up (one step forward, two steps back) it brings a higher level of seriousness about the gluten issue to me. I admit I was thinking in terms of just give it a couple of hours for the digestive system to get rid of it and all will be well.

Vigilance was lacking here.

 

[Nienna]

No, Prodigal Son, it is not worth it. And I hadn't thought of the point you just made - "...will take up to six months to depart from your system" I thank you for that. Although being reminded of that particular fact makes me feel quite fed up (one step forward, two steps back) it brings a higher level of seriousness about the gluten issue to me. I admit I was thinking in terms of just give it a couple of hours for the digestive system to get rid of it and all will be well.

Vigilance was lacking here.

Although this is a high price to pay, don't beat yourself up over it. You can now tell yourself that you know for sure that gluten is toxic. The next time the notion occurs to eat just a little gluten, you can tell yourself to remember the last incident and how it is NOT worth it. Especially since it takes so long to exit the system.

We all stumble here and there. What's important is picking ourselves up again and continuing on with what we know is the right thing to do.

 

[Vic]

No, Prodigal Son, it is not worth it. And I hadn't thought of the point you just made - "...will take up to six months to depart from your system" I thank you for that. Although being reminded of that particular fact makes me feel quite fed up (one step forward, two steps back) it brings a higher level of seriousness about the gluten issue to me. I admit I was thinking in terms of just give it a couple of hours for the digestive system to get rid of it and all will be well.

Vigilance was lacking here.

Although this is a high price to pay, don't beat yourself up over it. You can now tell yourself that you know for sure that gluten is toxic. The next time the notion occurs to eat just a little gluten, you can tell yourself to remember the last incident and how it is NOT worth it. Especially since it takes so long to exit the system.

We all stumble here and there. What's important is picking ourselves up again and continuing on with what we know is the right thing to do.

Sound advice, Nienna. Thank you. I'm wondering if there is a way of speeding up the elimination of gluten from the body. I'll do a search.

 

[monotonic]

I find vitamin C (5g or less per hour), magnesium (400-800mg for me) and milk thistle is a very powerful combination for this sort of thing, though I haven't tested it on gluten since I've been gluten-free for a year or two. I would probably take that with a glass of black tea (or blueberry leaf if you don't want caffeine) steeped with a big handful of shredded coconut, sweetened with stevia, which is a drink that really helps to clear my head.

I remember Laura mentioned a specific supplement that helped, but I have no idea where the post is and can't think of any good search terms.

 

[H-KQGE]

Here's a little piece via "The Gluten Summit" (thanks to Jasmine & Turgon for the links from the Nora Gedgaudas interview on SOTT) that finished last month. An eight minute audio of a few people's accounts on how "Gut Bacteria Might Guide The Workings Of Our Minds". Some eye rolling moments aside, an illustration of gut bacteria (& gluten by extension) awareness "catching up." On the same page is an animated short on the microbiome. It reminds me of an educational animated kids show on UK television in the early nineties, the name escapes me, but it showed the inner workings of many parts of the body.

The animation is five minutes.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/11/18/244526773/gut-bacteria-might-guide-the-workings-of-our-minds?inf_contact_key=db99fec787a80f4f62283b33d468b69513b71aebf4c75e7562e6ebe80fc2e1e3

It's brought by NPR National Public Radio.

 

[Laura]

I tell ya, that gluten thing is a killer. A couple of months ago, I had to eat in a restaurant in a meeting with our atty. I asked for the meat without the sauce, but it arrived with. Instead of making a fuss, I decided to scrape it off with the knife and eat the meat anyway. It was a bad idea because there was enough flour thickener in the sauce that got into my system that I was in pain (auto-immune reaction) for over a week. I'm still having some little quirks because of it though it has gradually died down a lot. I'm now a lot more determined to be fussy and demand the food the way I asked for it or order something that is NO risk.

The idea of deliberately eating ANYTHING with gluten, like a bread of any kind, is not even on my radar anymore.

 

[H-KQGE]

I tell ya, that gluten thing is a killer. A couple of months ago, I had to eat in a restaurant in a meeting with our atty. I asked for the meat without the sauce, but it arrived with. Instead of making a fuss, I decided to scrape it off with the knife and eat the meat anyway. It was a bad idea because there was enough flour thickener in the sauce that got into my system that I was in pain (auto-immune reaction) for over a week. I'm still having some little quirks because of it though it has gradually died down a lot. I'm now a lot more determined to be fussy and demand the food the way I asked for it or order something that is NO risk.

The idea of deliberately eating ANYTHING with gluten, like a bread of any kind, is not even on my radar anymore.

I don't know if that's actually possible. If you have to be in a restaurant or some place with these "food" poisons ok, you can't really escape them. But to eat from a restaurant... that's more frightening than a horror movie to me. To trust folks without any idea of these poisons is a no-no for me. Ever since you said "never bring it into your home again" (paraphrasing from this thread I think, maybe 2 years back) I took it with the utmost seriousness. Living as I am with pathological relatives (no escape for now) who gorge on gluten containing crap, what you said & that, has made me look at things normally taken for granted - everything we touch.

Half the time I feel I should make a video capturing one day through my eyes, of people's eating habits, & their residue & then upload it. (for us here mostly)

Seriously, I now look all the time at where people's hands are & what they are doing. At work every day there's nothing but blatant greasy hand prints on doors, tables, chairs you name it. I tell people regularly & their response is "where?" I'll point & say "there", & the exchange will repeat with some claiming that they can't see anything (I assure you it's as obvious as it can be & is right in your eye-line where doors are concerned) or they'll shrug & say "hmmm, yeeeah well..." or my boss will tell me I "see dirt where there is none." We actually have a running joke about oily hand prints (he only sees them on the metal of lifts!) where I once claimed that the hand prints were so distinct, they looked like the one out of the opening credits of the X-Files tv show!

Honestly, I don't trust people where hygiene is concerned. A lot do not wash their hands when they should (never mind Triclosan containing soaps & all the rest) nor do they um.. let's just say that they don't wipe or flush regularly & leave it at that. Don't forget that kitchens are consistently more unsanitary than bathrooms/toilets, (I'll never get over that one) people rub their faces & other body parts (guess where I'm referring to) & sneeze into their hands, & scratch their hair/scalps containing a chemical mess in there that can also be found in "foods." You guys showed me that, I'm just saying...

I've now always got tissues to help avoid contact with multiple surfaces, & when not, I just kick doors open, where gloves, or use an awkward part of the rails on the bus. ('cause everyone I've seen in a year touched virtually the same place(s) ) But watching cooking shows over the past 13 years has shown that small digs or high- class joints will have at least one who's likely to give you food poisoning, whether you eat a SAD & are unaware of gluten &/or autoimmune stuff, or you're keto-adapted.

 

[Tomek]

I tell ya, that gluten thing is a killer. A couple of months ago, I had to eat in a restaurant in a meeting with our atty. I asked for the meat without the sauce, but it arrived with. Instead of making a fuss, I decided to scrape it off with the knife and eat the meat anyway. It was a bad idea because there was enough flour thickener in the sauce that got into my system that I was in pain (auto-immune reaction) for over a week. I'm still having some little quirks because of it though it has gradually died down a lot. I'm now a lot more determined to be fussy and demand the food the way I asked for it or order something that is NO risk.

The idea of deliberately eating ANYTHING with gluten, like a bread of any kind, is not even on my radar anymore.

Exactly. Restaurants are evil. Last time I went for lunch with my partner and her parents, every single thing on the menu contained gluten. It was embarrasing but I had to ask for something different that what was proposed. The chef gave me a astounded gaze, and proposed me gluten-free meals. I just wonder why he didn't resist to put croutons on the snails, after telling that's exactly what I was trying to avoid. Anyway, be careful when you entrust your health to ignorant strangers.

Don't beat yourself up, The Strawman, it took me two years of occasional slip-ups until I decided I was DONE with auto-immune troubles (mostly eczema, and anxiety) caused by the sweet desire for french pastries. I was also tired of the guilt associated with these slip-ups. You're not the only one here who had to deal with the weight of our habits

 

[Laura]

Well, sometimes, to make a point, I'll ask the waitstaff if they are aware of peanut allergies... how some people can die within moments of being exposed to peanuts in their food. Most of them ARE aware of that. So, then I just say: I'm the same way with gluten and dairy... their eyes get really big and they get really busy trying to figure out what to feed me so I won't die in their dining room and ruin their reputation.

But, on this last occasion, I THOUGHT I was safe... and a piece of grilled veal with NO sauce would be okay. Usually, if I just get grilled meat or fish and a salad, I'm fine.

 

[Nancy2feathers]

That`s a great idea Laura, to use the peanut allergy analogy with gluten and dairy when going out to eat. Once in a while we do go out to eat. I ask the waitstaff a zillion questions, funny thing is our server usually starts asking us questions about our diet and wants more info! Eating out is tough when traveling. I agree, you have to stick to your guns when ordering food out(in a restaurant).

We are seeing new paleo restaurants opening in our area. Ren and I ate at one called "The Backyard Bistro". Ren delivers pastured beef and pork from the farm where he works to this restaurant. Mighty tasty! :)

 

[Zadius Sky]

Well, sometimes, to make a point, I'll ask the waitstaff if they are aware of peanut allergies... how some people can die within moments of being exposed to peanuts in their food. Most of them ARE aware of that. So, then I just say: I'm the same way with gluten and dairy... their eyes get really big and they get really busy trying to figure out what to feed me so I won't die in their dining room and ruin their reputation.

I had to be fussy myself whenever I'm at any restaurant. The staffs kept looking at me like I was crazy when I mentioned about not eating anything with gluten and dairy.