What is God Generically & Actually...

[AdamantineLady]

[quote author=Rob]
I dont think there r any 'lessons' to be learnt if we r indeed god.

This idea that we are God has been contradicted twice already - but you seem unable to consider this. Is your cup full?
If you believe that there is nothing to learn then why are you here? The purpose of this forum is to network and learn.

There is a point where the learning gives way to the experience that learning points to...and it is this that can be neither qualified nor quantified...only known. An accumulation of neat facts and different rules holds no value apart from the experience that it leads you to. How one can comment on Heaven when one has not yet been there and experienced Heaven is erroneous at best. It is like when Spock said to Bones on the Star Trek that went back in time to find whales...telling Dr. McCoy that he could not converse about 'death' because they lacked a 'common frame of reference'. Like it or not, humans will have this limitation of perception until the learning takes him/her beyond the confines of the 'lessons'.

Apologies, AdamantineLady, but I'm not quite sure what your point is with the above? It sounds quite subjective. Could you please clarify.
[/quote]

Well, there is a point to all of what is revealed to us in our discoveries of the Universe, Knowledge, the Way, distinct connections we have, etc. Learning is not so much the point apart from the goal of that learning. There is experience beyond the learning (which is the goal). For me it is Self Realization and Heaven. I think all that we find in our explorations reflect the answer to a question that when completed closes the gap from this ordinary mundane world we see to the whole purpose that the search for God, Creation, Christ, Love, and fulfillment presents to us. So, the learning is but one aspect of this process, just as the cocoon is one aspect in the process of bringing a caterpillar to its' butterfly truth. Is the caterpillar born with the entire genetic makeup of the butterfly? Yes, but leave the metamorphosis out of it and its' truth is never realized, and the beauty and flight is not experienced. To learn is but a part of the process. And it reveals what is already there by design.
I really hope that this has come out a bit clearer than mud.

 

[Gimpy]

AdamantineLady said:

So, the learning is but one aspect of this process, just as the cocoon is one aspect in the process of bringing a caterpillar to its' butterfly truth. Is the caterpillar born with the entire genetic makeup of the butterfly? Yes, but leave the metamorphosis out of it and its' truth is never realized, and the beauty and flight is not experienced. To learn is but a part of the process. And it reveals what is already there by design.

Question: What is the difference between Being, personal experience, and knowledge? From what you've written, it sounds as if you've blended all of them together here?

All of those things are part of the growth process, but they do not just 'happen'. To grow Being, one must Work at it consciously.

 

[Mountain Crown]

Learning is not so much the point apart from the goal of that learning.

Without providing a specific example of an error made due to a separation of learning and it's goal, this statement appears as merely another occurence of the intellect parsing for for it's own sake, or in order to continue some kind of momemtum devoid of purpose.

 

[Al Today]

Learning is not so much the point apart from the goal of that learning. There is experience beyond the learning (which is the goal).
[...]
To learn is but a part of the process.
[...]

Is not a purpose for learning to gain knowledge ?
How does one "know", or at least gain knowledge without learning?
Are we supposed to "know" because we are simply told?
I think perception is a result from our environmental upbringing combined with physical senses, and an emotional rush is usually a chemical reaction.
How does one really know ANYTHING?

 

[AdamantineLady]

Learning is not so much the point apart from the goal of that learning.

Without providing a specific example of an error made due to a separation of learning and it's goal, this statement appears as merely another occurence of the intellect parsing for for it's own sake, or in order to continue some kind of momemtum devoid of purpose.

At this point all I can say is seek and you shall find.

It is only until learning looses the inner critic and the inner cynic it will continue to find the obstacle to realization. It comes down to a matter of motivation and attitude. Until you pursue it invested with ALL you are and have faith that it is true and complete, you will find the same result over again. (Groundhog Day, the movie comes to mind) What you seek is within you but won't reveal itself to doubt, compromise, or judgment. Faith is fully involved, and judgment, which is an ego expression, holds no place. People can find millions of reasons why something cannot happen but there is only one reason that they find that can and does happen...truth. I am sure that you can recognize such occurrences all over the world in the many pursuits and interests presented. We live in a society that is fraught with them. You have to shed the millions to find the one...and that entire choice and motive is up to you.

 

[Al Today]

There are many different definitions of the word faith. When it comes to organized religion I must point out definition#2 below.

Most if not all of us have faith in something, one way or another. As individuals, we all can and may have different perceptions of reality. Has your perception of reality offered visions or confirmation resultant and based on your religious upbringing? If so, do you think that people can have faith different than yours?



http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith
faith   /feɪθ/ Show Spelled
[feyth] Show IPA

–noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in god or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology . the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.

 

[ana]

Learning is not so much the point apart from the goal of that learning.

Without providing a specific example of an error made due to a separation of learning and it's goal, this statement appears as merely another occurence of the intellect parsing for for it's own sake, or in order to continue some kind of momemtum devoid of purpose.

At this point all I can say is seek and you shall find.

It is only until learning looses the inner critic and the inner cynic it will continue to find the obstacle to realization. It comes down to a matter of motivation and attitude. Until you pursue it invested with ALL you are and have faith that it is true and complete, you will find the same result over again. (Groundhog Day, the movie comes to mind) What you seek is within you but won't reveal itself to doubt, compromise, or judgment. Faith is fully involved, and judgment, which is an ego expression, holds no place. People can find millions of reasons why something cannot happen but there is only one reason that they find that can and does happen...truth. I am sure that you can recognize such occurrences all over the world in the many pursuits and interests presented. We live in a society that is fraught with them. You have to shed the millions to find the one...and that entire choice and motive is up to you.

AdamantineLady, it is interesting to see how you evade clear and direct questions introducing monologues wich only serve to make you feel confortable.

How about trying to step outside yourself for a moment to look at what others are saying?

Communication is a two way street but you are just so stuck in your own shoes... not realy an example of the awareness and realization that you are selling to us.

Edit: grammar

 

[Renaissance]

At this point all I can say is seek and you shall find.

Seeking is essentially this forum purpose. And here, it is a group process. It's interesting that you say this though because at this point you seem intent on preaching to us, which is essentially talking down to people and thus blocks any true seeking. If you check out the forum guidelines (a link to them was provided in a welcome message in your introductory thread) you can get a better idea of the way this forum works.

It is only until learning looses the inner critic and the inner cynic it will continue to find the obstacle to realization.

The inner critic can be composed of two different types. There's the dysfunctional inner critic that causes people to talk down to themselves, and then there is healthy questioning of yourself and others. While it's good to work to get past the former, getting rid of the later ends up being so sure of yourself that you could end up preaching. ;)

It comes down to a matter of motivation and attitude. Until you pursue it invested with ALL you are and have faith that it is true and complete, you will find the same result over again. (Groundhog Day, the movie comes to mind)

Groundhog Day is a good example of the situation we find ourselves in. If you take some time to read the forum you'll find many concepts that describe our repeating reactionary condition. The work here is to get out of that mode and there are many results that come from it. However, if you're happy with preaching and content that you know it all, then I doubt it will be of much use.

What you seek is within you but won't reveal itself to doubt, compromise, or judgment.

If you're completely sure of yourself, then there is no room for questioning - no seeking. It seems you could be mixing up healthy discernment and critical thinking with unhealthy judgment.

Also, the colored text is difficult to read, would you use the black text instead?

 

[Gimpy]

At this point all I can say is seek and you shall find.

And at this point all I can say is cut the crap, the colored text, and start talking to us.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I'm not sure how to enter the conversation here, but I am interested in discussions on close to what has been talked about here. Morality is not a road I go down often, but John Stuart Mill would probably be at the forefront. I have to confess that I majored in Philosophy accidentally in school. I planned on chemistry, but philosophy just kind of snuck in there. Any way there were kind of two schools of thought among the students and to some degree the professors on what might be called the nature of god, or the nature of consciousness and existence. To me the question of the Nate of consciousness and the nature of god are of course irrevocably linked. anyway the two schools were roughly the mechanist/atheist vi em of existence as opposed to the Christian/idealist conception of existence. While I am far from a conventional christian I often found myself arguing against this random mechanist view of reality. Personally I find the argument of freewill to be the most compelling argument against a universe that can be "completely" understood from physical measurement and predictive laws. I have seen some here refer to something like the "real reality," and I would have questions on how that is arrived at If I wer e to sum up my philosophy, I would say this strange contradiction we perceive between the finite and the infinite is the defining element of our construction of existence. Closely related is my belief that the more we try to approach some of these most fundamental philosophical questions, the more we reach contradictions which make real answers impossible. This is of course kind of relativistic and wishy washy, but in my opinion there is little in the way to clear answers on these question. One thing I will argue is that science is bringing us any closer to answers on these things. Love science, and think it has a huge role in thought, but these things are beyond it in my opinion

Since you've got some background in philosophy, I really recommend David Ray Griffin's work on the subject. For example, check out his book "Whitehead's Radically Different Postmodern Philosophy". He shows the self-contradictions and flaws in both the atheistic/materialist school as well as the dualist/Christian/idealist one. He basically argues for something close to the philosophy here, which he calls "panexperientialism" (experience/awareness is the root of creation and matter) and "pantemporalism" (time did not "begin", but always was). He argues that God is best defined as "the soul of the universe", and such a view accounts for many of the paradoxes and contradictions in competing views, and their inability to give an adequate basis for objective morality.

 

[Al Today]

Many on this forum have started with their cup full. Yup.

Great is the sorrow & pain of the initial trauma of realization, beginning the removal of those sacred cows that some have fed all their life. It hurts to "see" that one has been lied to all their life. I know this is true. And the pain does continue in "seeing" what is "here" and "now". Think of the children who hunger and do without for example...

The Evil Magician

[quote author=http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=455]There was an evil magician. He lived deep in the mountains and the forests, and he had thousands of sheep. But the problem was that the sheep were afraid of the magician because every day the sheep were seeing that one of them was being killed for his breakfast, another was being killed for his lunch. So they ran away from the magician's ranch and it was a difficult job to find them in the vast forest. Being a magician, he used magic.

He hypnotized all the sheep and suggested to them first of all that they were immortal and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned, that, on the contrary, it would be very good for them and even pleasant; secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world for them; and in the third place he suggested to them that if anything at all were going to happen to them it was not going to happen just then, at any rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about it.

He then told different sheep...to some, "You are a man, you need not be afraid. It is only the sheep who are going to be killed and eaten, not you. You are a man just like I am." Some other sheep were told, "You are a lion -- only sheep are afraid. They escape, they are cowards. You are a lion; you would prefer to die than to run away. You don't belong to these sheep. So when they are killed it is not your problem. They are meant to be killed, but you are the most loved of my friends in this forest." In this way, he told every sheep different stories, and from the second day, the sheep stopped running away from the house.

They still saw other sheep being killed, butchered, but it was not their concern. Somebody was a lion, somebody was a tiger, somebody was a man, somebody was a magician and so forth. Nobody was a sheep except the one who was being killed. This way, without keeping servants, he managed thousands of sheep. They would go into the forest for their food, for their water, and they would come back home, believing always one thing: "It is some sheep who is going to be killed, not you. You don't belong to the sheep. You are a lion -- respected, honored, a friend of the great magician." The magician's problems were solved and the sheep never ran away again.' [/quote]

Question is, does someone have questions, are they truly seeking, have an open mind, or just being unquestioningly righteous while standing on a soapbox feeding their perception of a need to save souls.?.?.?


edit: spelling and clarity... again...

 

[AdamantineLady]

At this point all I can say is seek and you shall find.

Seeking is essentially this forum purpose. And here, it is a group process. It's interesting that you say this though because at this point you seem intent on preaching to us, which is essentially talking down to people and thus blocks any true seeking. If you check out the forum guidelines (a link to them was provided in a welcome message in your introductory thread) you can get a better idea of the way this forum works.

It is only until learning looses the inner critic and the inner cynic it will continue to find the obstacle to realization.

The inner critic can be composed of two different types. There's the dysfunctional inner critic that causes people to talk down to themselves, and then there is healthy questioning of yourself and others. While it's good to work to get past the former, getting rid of the later ends up being so sure of yourself that you could end up preaching. ;)

It comes down to a matter of motivation and attitude. Until you pursue it invested with ALL you are and have faith that it is true and complete, you will find the same result over again. (Groundhog Day, the movie comes to mind)

Groundhog Day is a good example of the situation we find ourselves in. If you take some time to read the forum you'll find many concepts that describe our repeating reactionary condition. The work here is to get out of that mode and there are many results that come from it. However, if you're happy with preaching and content that you know it all, then I doubt it will be of much use.

What you seek is within you but won't reveal itself to doubt, compromise, or judgment.

If you're completely sure of yourself, then there is no room for questioning - no seeking. It seems you could be mixing up healthy discernment and critical thinking with unhealthy judgment.

Also, the colored text is difficult to read, would you use the black text instead?

Chopping other people's experiences to bits isn't healthy input. You've taken your criticism of me and think that somehow I am talking down to you and I am not. I have simply revealed my experiences. My Being is not threatened by my experience - and as these experiences have communicated to me just who it is I am, I am not inclined to throw it away because it induces reactions of threat to you. That is your issue, not mine. That my experience is not yours is obvious. That you feel you need to eliminate me from myself to have any interaction reflects your fear, not mine, and reflects your judgment, not mine.

I have made it past Groundhog Day, and I have returned. I don't preach. You mistake a secure self esteem for preaching. People actually do 'Find' and are not 'authors' or 'leaders' in the public eye. The legitimacy of who I am, where I am in this process is not at question. Your critique of who I am and how I present myself is. Once you do actually 'find' then meet with similar critique of those not yet there, you will remember me and this post.

Alas, since you seek to conquer and eliminate any legitimacy of the input I have offered here, there is nothing I can contribute that will ever be seen as it is. I will see you somewhere down the line when this is no longer an issue.

Peace,

a friend

P.S. As for the color of the text, complain to the owners of the site. If you see the choices are that difficult and troublesome, why offer them.

 

[Mountain Crown]

[quote author=AdamantineLady]I have simply revealed my experiences[/quote]

As of yet you haven't shared any experiences, but want us to believe that you are special by merely stating you've had them.

Your posts read as if the members here need to know something that you already know, but aren't mature enough to be told in a straightforward manner.

Such condescending "hinting" is manipulative and reveals a self-serving intent.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Chopping other people's experiences to bits isn't healthy input.

Actually, this is a research forum and one of our mottos is "no sacred cows". That means that we try to approach everything (including "experiences") with impartiality. And the expectation is that forum participants will be willing to look at their OWN experiences impartially. Objectivity when it comes to such matters is the only healthy input there is, IMO.

...I am not inclined to throw it away because it induces reactions of threat to you.

I don't think there have been any reactions of threat here on the part of those offering replies to you.

That you feel you need to eliminate me from myself to have any interaction reflects your fear, not mine, and reflects your judgment, not mine.

Nope, it's just an attempt to promote impartiality. As it's been mentioned already, I'll reiterate the importance of reading the Wave series. It goes into these matters in detail.

I have made it past Groundhog Day, and I have returned. I don't preach. You mistake a secure self esteem for preaching. People actually do 'Find' and are not 'authors' or 'leaders' in the public eye. The legitimacy of who I am, where I am in this process is not at question. Your critique of who I am and how I present myself is. Once you do actually 'find' then meet with similar critique of those not yet there, you will remember me and this post.

One of the features of those who have "made it past Groundhog Day" is external consideration. That means knowing your audience, seeing the line of force of said audience's conversations, and making input based on that. I recommend checking out this thread to see how that can apply to this situation: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=22751.0

 

[anart]

Chopping other people's experiences to bits isn't healthy input.

No one has chopped anything. Can you please point out where anything about you or what you are saying has been 'chopped'.

You've taken your criticism of me and think that somehow I am talking down to you and I am not.

No one has criticized you. Could you please point out where you were criticized? What has occurred here is that people are trying to point out how this forum works, to point out information that might help you and to try to communicate with you. This has come to naught because you appear to be completely unwilling to listen - at all - in any way. This is unfortunate.

I have simply revealed my experiences.

Have you? I don't see that. I see you writing in vague circles expecting others to understand you.

My Being is not threatened by my experience

What does this mean?

- and as these experiences have communicated to me just who it is I am, I am not inclined to throw it away because it induces reactions of threat to you. That is your issue, not mine. That my experience is not yours is obvious. That you feel you need to eliminate me from myself to have any interaction reflects your fear, not mine, and reflects your judgment, not mine.

The above simply makes zero sense. At this point, it appears that you are only talking for and to yourself. No one is asking or telling you to throw anything away. In fact, the idea that you have come to this conclusion is rather bizarre.

I have made it past Groundhog Day, and I have returned.

If your postings thus far on this forum are an indication, then I think it might be worth considering that you have not.

I don't preach.

Actually, you do lean in a 'preachy' direction. Perhaps if you read your posts as if someone else wrote them, you might see this tendency?

You mistake a secure self esteem for preaching.

No, I don't think so. I think what has been pointed out to you is that you do not listen, you simply keep repeating vague phrases as if they, in themselves, hold value when they do not. Your doors appear to be closed. That is fine, this just may not be the right forum for you, since closed doors tend to cause issues here, where it is important to be willing to open doors in order to see where they lead, in the search for Truth.

People actually do 'Find' and are not 'authors' or 'leaders' in the public eye. The legitimacy of who I am, where I am in this process is not at question. Your critique of who I am and how I present myself is. Once you do actually 'find' then meet with similar critique of those not yet there, you will remember me and this post.

You appear to greatly overestimate yourself. Perhaps this is why people are telling you that you are preachy? Again, if your posts on this forum thus far are indicative of 'where you are in this process', then you are revealing more than you know. That's okay, we are all learning, in different ways.

Alas, since you seek to conquer and eliminate any legitimacy of the input I have offered here,

Not at all, though the value of what you have offered thus far is difficult to determine, because you continue to use vague phrases and expect others to not question you in any way. This is an interesting characteristic.

there is nothing I can contribute that will ever be seen as it is.

This is a wholly ridiculous statement.

I will see you somewhere down the line when this is no longer an issue.

If you are ever interested in actually listening to the input of others who actually might have information that will benefit you, then this forum will be here, at least for the foreseeable future.