Living without food

So I had a chance to take at the link you provided. Here are my thoughts for what it's worth. I think in the case of Barbara Moore it may be disinformation. The reason I think so is because the same story does repeat in several places. To me, this says that someone may be trying to push their own agenda. I may be wrong on this. If you're interested in pursuing her story, maybe there's more information to be found in a library. I'm not sure. If you can find anything, you're more than welcome to post your findings here for networking purposes.

tendrini said:
The negativity and derision surrounding accounts of sun gazers and breatharians - is this info being suppressed?

I can see why you would think this. I'm sure this subject is probably labeled as new agey.

tendrini said:
Observations of members of my own family who have puzzling and unusual diets that they manage to survive on.

Can you give some examples of the diets they are on? Also, you mentioned that you have also have been able to abstain, how long have you gone without eating?
 
King said:
First, I wrote the word “maybe” in that sentence you refer and “maybe” means ‎‎“indicating possibility”, if it has any meaning for you (if you really wish that ‎sentence to be in bold, as you did it, that is another story). ‎

Second, I am not desiring (your word) anything here or suggesting anything for ‎anyone in this topic as I wrote before “Everybody is free to think about ‎himself/herself”. I was Just sharing the information writing my proofs/reasons ‎for those who (1) are interested in (2) and for those who had no idea of such ‎knowledge(s)/phenomenon confusing the matter with “distraction”, getting upset, ‎accusing others of ignorance, “playing with words” and ridiculing everybody who ‎oppose their ideas. Even you and others couldn’t show your/their proofs/reasons. ‎

I'm sorry that my response upset you. I would however appreciate it if you didn't lump my comments in with what others have said to you. If you have an issue with others, please feel free to take it up with them individually. I have no problem at all with you sharing information. I'd like to ask though, what is it that makes you feel accused? Can you speak more to that?

King said:
This is one of your answers/comments in this topic :‎

Is it possible for humans in 3D to learn whatever is necessary to learn and go on ‎living without any food or drink at all?‎

My current understanding is that when all lessons are learned, we move from 3D ‎to 4D. When we are in 4D, we don't need food as we currently consume it. ‎So as long as we remain 3D, there will be a necessity to eat. 4D STS consumes us ‎and 4D STO feed each other. fwiw. ‎

I am really sorry to say you didn’t even realize that the Indian man was talking ‎about our 3D but not 4D. He really meant about “Man’s abilities” to learn and ‎living without food in 3D. Fortunately you know now . . . after reading the whole ‎info in this topic that we all are able to do it .‎

The operative phrase in the paragraph you quoted is "My current understanding". As you pointed out to me in the beginning of your last post, this indicates that what I'm saying is how I presently see the idea I'm referring to. This means that I may be wrong.

Are you really concerned about the answer I gave to tendrini or is that you're really upset about what was said to you in the past by me and others and you're taking this opportunity to vent your frustration and conveniently taking it out on me?

King said:
Anyway. More probably we don’t have SG practitioner(s) today in the forum but ‎maybe for tomorrows reading this topic just like a new member or guest whether ‎he/she would like to share in this topic or not. Or they will prefer “silence” not ‎to be accused of ignorance or something else. Let’s not forget that more than ‎the half of members, except the guests, have not read this topic yet . . . Have you ‎seen the statistics? There are also other practitioners except SG like Breatharians, ‎Light and Prana Practitioners too, and many others have learned by different ‎techniques. No need to say that someone like me don’t need or desire for ‎supporters/followers but you need to know that instead of wasting your/my time ‎and energy for such comments it is more wiser to read carefully the ‎writings/comments before because maybe and maybe someone might guess or ‎think this is a kind of “Noise” . . . or it is more better to spent your time/energy ‎for sharing information about the things you know very well to help other ‎members/guests. Don’t you think it is a good idea?‎
And I promise you there will be more info about this knowledge in this topic and ‎everybody is free by his/her own free will to read it or not. Learning is fun.‎

Again, are you really concerned about providing information for others or just getting caught up in feeling judged? What was said to you by me and others is not a judgement on you but rather a pointing out of a certain "flavor" some of your posts have. Everyone on this earth is narcissistically wounded. Because of this, we can mistake what is said about our behaviors as a personal judgement. This can feel like an attack that we feel the need to defend. Unfortunately, because our perception is off even the slightest word or action can set us off. This leads to those around us feeling as though they need to walk on eggshells when in our presence. In short, all our interactions become a lie. The lie is not only in the false perception we have but also in the way those we deal with with feel they have to act around us.
 
King said:
Hi Jeep,‎

I was waiting for the practitioners asking some questions but it seems there is no ‎one in the forum or have not read the topic yet, maybe they prefer “silence” ‎rather than anything else.‎

I haven’t practiced Sun Gazing but the same way as “Chakra/Pranic healing” ‎techniques we are able to absorb Vital Energy by concentration and breathing.‎

In brief it is Absorption and Consumption.‎

When I started reading the first book for Pranic/Chakra healing I wanted to know ‎more about such phenomena. Fortunately, learning the lessons for the first few ‎days I could absorb/collect and touch the VE/Prana between my palms just like a ‎real ball, feeling its “nature”, vibrating/dancing over and under my skin, then by ‎concentration and breathing could make that ball as bigger as the size of my ‎shoulders, controlling it by my will, any moment I was able to absorb it completely ‎to make it disappear, or make it smaller or bigger balls and for more minutes ‎practicing more VE preserving. Finally I learned “absorption”. Pranic healing, ‎energizing the body during a hard working day or a glass of water, . . . all are my ‎hobbies for the last few years. ‎

We, as transducers, can absorb VE/Prana by our thoughts power/brain to convert ‎into nourishment or for any other useful benefits such as Healing, Energizing . . . ‎and the price we pay is only few minutes time a day. All above mentioned ‎other advantages/benefits in this topic such as :‎

‎“adjusting the mind and thoughts especially cultivating the virtue ‎principle . . .” and “health of mind, body and spirit…” are good enough to ‎think about it for our unpredictable dangerous future. Generally, it is very simple ‎to understand that learning something like painting, basic psychology, dowsing, ‎sacred geometry, digital graphics, sculpturing or Pranic absorption for 10/15 ‎minutes a day can not distract someone from the “Work/Aim/Goal”. Everybody is ‎free to think about for himself/herself. ‎

I believe Sun Gazing is the same process . . . Absorption and Consumption. ‎Generally there is no great differences/benefits/advantages between these two ‎and IF there is, then, I ask the same question too : ‎

Any SG practitioners in Cassi Castle?‎

Sorry King, but I am just now seeing your post and the followup responses. Your thoughts on Absorption and Consumption by itself and in regards to sungazing are most intriguing. Getting one's mind to think in terms of "no limitations" can be challenging, but exciting as well. This is definitely "food for thought".

As for no responses to my question regarding any sg practitioners, I figured either there weren't any or any that wished to share on that subject. I was at first puzzled by the "silence" reference, but I think I now get what you mean. It's true that when one participates here that there is a risk of responses that may range from somewhat to highly uncomfortable. It's part of the mirroring of the Work as well as wanting to keep objective truth as the goal. As a new participant, perhaps you are still negotiating these concepts. Certainly one should be able to explore viable topics with the forum rules in mind and realizing external consideration. It is a written format - you can't see faces and you can't here tones and inflections, thus, sometimes misunderstandings can occur. Also, because of the nature of this particular forum, hostile elements (trolls) do sometimes surface and must be dealt with firmly. As a rule, though, respect and courtesy is expected in all interactions and if you are unsure about a response (or lack of), it only makes sense to request clarification in a polite, unassuming way. Getting a handle on the whole mechanical self/sacred cows/predator within concepts does take time, effort, and understanding. I can assure you that the moderators have a very good grasp on this and only want to assist in helping others to understand as well. So, I hope I have interpreted this issue correctly and that this exchange is beneficial.

Again, thanks for your input on the subject of sungazing.
 
Hi Jeep, thanks for reply, in brief I agree with you and your ideas in most parts ‎except for the words like “most intriguing” and "food for thought". I appreciate ‎your knowledge and high understanding and there is no doubt that most of the ‎moderators doing their best helping others, and I really appreciate here, except ‎those whose posts and “words” are clear enough for the Forum. You have ‎interpreted correctly and that is enough beneficial that (1) I realized again the ‎power of reasoning/logic (2) but I was wrong to share in this topic.‎
again thanks for Feasting on Sunshine ‎
Best
King
 
Herakles said:
Hi King,

Thank-you, I find this topic quite interesting, particularly in light of a recent discussion concerning possibilities and limitations we impose based upon our belief structures and how learning to be open to all possibilities is vital to our growth.

...
Also, I am a big fan of the sun :D and have been since I can remember. One event in particular, I was about 11 years of age and standing outside on our farm, catching some rays of our glorious star, when the thought dawned in me that we ARE beings OF the Sun. Now I am not saying this as a matter of fact, only recounting my memory of that day over 20-years ago where it seemed so clear and obvious to me that as all life requires sunlight in some form and capacity to nourish then clearly as we are A-LIFE our "begetting" as it were makes perfect sense to be a solar one.

Also, I've practiced some sun-gazing before but not quite in the manner described here and not for the length of time prescribed.

...

I think Herakles first paragraph describes some of the first gut reactions we have seen to this topic, for comparison sake, if you talk about fasting to a group that has never heard, let alone considered fasting, such reactions will surely take place, and the more you move towards open mindedness the better the chance of a fruitful exchange of ideas, all of it of course with proper and careful examination of either the possibilities and the validity of the approach (scientific method if anything).

As for absorption and sun gazing, I will recount a story that my mother told me of an occurence as she was a child, one that suggest that we humans might have an instinct-like knowledge towards things like sun gazing or absorption other than consuming food.

When she was about 8 years old, my grandparents where rather poor and lived on a rural setting, with agriculture to sustain their lives, she used to go along to the harvest of the lentil, at very early hours in the morning in they high cold yet sunny plains of inland Spain. She explained that on one occasion as they were picking lentils, she was a bit far from the main group and not knowing quite why, she lied on the ground between the rows of the plantation, on a cold morning under the sun and closed her eyes face up. She described having had a feeling of being totally warped by the land, in a warm embrace and feeling the sun nourishing her through the skin while time seemed to stop. She described a rapture like experience that left her fully energized and at ease on an activity and setting that was often grueling for an 8 year old girl, she didn't fully understand as a child and never explained to anybody then.

I hope my words make sense of what it was like, and that this doesn't go off topic, I just wanted to share it to reflect on the possibility that nourishing can be understood more broadly than just eating.

FWIW

R
 
I dont think it was a question of gut reactions, and I suppose that some of the veteran members have considered the possibility that nourishment is more than just food.

The question that was asked over and over again, was that sungazing may be deception for those living in 3D. Not by being impossible, but perhaps out of reach for many.
Its like telekinesis or other ESP phenomena. They can be developed? Yes, I think so. Are they crucially important? Not now.

Is learning how to live without food, now in 3D reality in this moment in space/time crucially important to justify the emotional investment of some posters in this thread?
 
I dont know what thread this would fit best in, but I guess this works :) The study of the 82-year-old yogi Prahlad Jani is finished. Here is the primary results.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/35126/ said:
After 15 days of investigation, India’s Defense Institute of Physiology and Allied Sciences concluded its study of 82-year-old yogi Prahlad Jani on Thursday, May 6.

Jani, who claims to have lived without food or water since his childhood, was under the close watch of three video cameras 24 hours a day. Researchers conducted various medical tests on him. The research team, consisting of 35 scientists, could not find any evidence that Jani ate or drank anything during the 15 days.

Doctors have not found any adverse effects in his body from hunger or dehydration. They think that yoga exercises may have caused Jani’s body to undergo a biological transformation. The researchers said tests found that his brain is equivalent to that of a 25-year-old.

In fact, according to the Daily Mail, the doctors said that after fasting for two weeks, Jani was healthier than the average 40-year-old.

When a person fasts, there are usually changes in metabolism, but that was not observed in Jani.

“Clinical, biochemical, radiological, and other relevant examinations were done on Prahlad Jani and all reports were within the safe range throughout the study. He is healthy; his mind is sharp,” said researcher Dr. G. Ilavazhagn according to the Daily Mail. “What is truly astonishing, and something we have no explanation for, is that he has not passed stools or urine. To my knowledge, that is medically unprecedented.”

Scientists will continue to analyze the results from this study, and it may take two months for them to draw conclusions.
 
The link is for : BIGU (“without food”) Research in Penn State University:‎

http://vivendodaluz.com/EN/articles/bigu_research.html


BIGU (“without food”) Research

Penn State University March 2000‎

The shared goal of the sponsors of this program is to advance the cause of Integrative ‎Medicine in the world by educating the public on the remarkable factual scientific base ‎behind much traditional healing. The purpose of this meeting is to focus on one of the ‎most remarkable and visible and measurable set phenomena stimulated by a traditional ‎process.‎

The Bigu phenomenon, which occurs spontaneously among certain Qigong practitioners, ‎entails the cessation of eating solid food for periods of weeks to months and years. It is ‎so spectacular a claim (but made openly albeit quietly) that it is truly remarkable that no ‎seminar, scientific and technical magazines have published anything whatsoever, on this ‎phenomenon.‎

We have assembled a remarkable Team of Qigong practitioners, persons in the Bigu state ‎‎(including families) and world-class scientists who are open-minded to the potential on ‎the new science. The goals of this meeting include:‎

The presentation of data, partly in person as direct case studies on the nature of and the ‎process of attaining the Bigu state and the length of its persistence. The presentation of ‎data on experimental research to try to explain the Bigu state. The presentation of ‎experimental scientific instrumentally obtained data from Yan Xin Qigong and other ‎integrative medicine modalities, which extend the range of very significant facts and ‎useful healing techniques not explained (possibly not explainable) by today's reductionist ‎science. Reflections upon the data and hypotheses to explain them, and suggestions for ‎the most important research directions. Suggestions for collaboration among different ‎alternative health modalities to establish the collective posture as equal partners to ‎Western medicine.‎

From June 23 to June 25, 2000, over 500 enthusiastic scientists and scholars descended ‎on the picturesque campus of The Pennsylvania State University for a unique scientific ‎conference on qigong health practices and the bigu phenomenon. The Conference was ‎sponsored by the STS (Science, Technology and Society) Program of Penn State, the ‎University of Arizona Program in Integrative Medicine, Friends of Health (an ‎organization championing the cause of all integrative medicine), etc. The Conference is ‎considered a historical event in world qigong scientific research development as it was the ‎first of its kind for the new millennium in which the Western scientific community ‎systematically introduced the Bigu phenomenon of Yan Xin Qigong to the public. The ‎Conference was also viewed as the launching of a scientific discourse between Eastern ‎and Western philosophical and scientific systems that will add significantly to human ‎health and world peace.‎

Qigong is an ancient Chinese practice for body-mind development and healing with ‎several thousand years of written history. Some startling benefits in the realm of healing ‎of cancer, managing difficult pregnancies, stress-related diseases and so on, were ‎reported. Experiments on the effects of qi (chi) by the grand master Yan Xin (a kind of ‎combination of Michael Jordan and Albert Einstein in talents), directly measured from ‎chemical and physical reactions in leading universities, were as new as the report by ‎Roentgen 100 years ago when he discovered X-rays. The most intriguing, first time ever, ‎public presentation was the extraordinary phenomenon called bigu (without food). Many ‎of the Yan Xin Qigong practitioners find themselves in this state where they do not need ‎to eat solid food at all for days, weeks, months or even years. The Conference had over ‎‎100 attendees who had experienced this state while maintaining more than normal active ‎professional lives in U.S. corporate and academic research centers.‎

An Invitation to:‎

All citizens, scientists, health professionals interested in the physical, instrumental and ‎spiritual manifestation of Qigong and related practices.‎

Background:‎

All scientists and citizens rejoice that the ancient healing arts of many cultures are now ‎being rediscovered in the West. The potential is enormous for both providing access to ‎healing of the whole person (body, mind and spirit), for all persons rich and poor, and ‎simultaneously to stimulate new advances in Western scientific understanding of ‎potentially revolutionary observations.‎

The Bigu ("without food") phenomenon, where ordinary practitioners of Qigong living ‎normal work-day lives in the West are able to live without eating any solid food for ‎months or even several years is reported to be widespread. Many of those in the Bigu ‎state are senior scientists and engineers.‎

This conference is the first attempt to bring together such practitioners of Qigong who ‎have experienced the Bigu state, with the larger communities interested in many aspects ‎of traditional healing practices. The meeting will provide an opportunity to record and ‎discuss the data provided.‎

Authors will also present results of scientific research on Qigong or other modalities in ‎which there is a measured or recorded impact on laboratory instruments.‎

The approach of this Conference is Aristotelian reliance on first principles - observing and ‎confirming the facts, with a secondary role for explanations.‎


Best
King
 
TEN DAYS WITH THE CHINESE MYSTERY, XU FANG
http://vivendodaluz.com/EN/amboflight/xu_fang.html


TEN DAYS WITH THE CHINESE MYSTERY, XU FANG

Original Article

by Valery Mamonov, Ph.D.‎

Xu Fang, thirty-one, of China has not eaten in the last thirteen years. The December 1996 ‎issue of the Japanese magazine Borderland, based on a report by Pung Chung, published ‎an article (in Japanese) about her mysterious ability to stay healthy without food for nine ‎years (at the time of publication). Fuji TV of Japan showed her in its program after the TV ‎team stayed with her for three days, in an attempt to prove whether or not she eats. The ‎Chinese best-selling author, Ka Un Ro, wrote about her in a few of his books. I first heard ‎about Xu Fang from a Japanese family, Jiro and Masako Tokawa, a retired noble couple ‎who invited me to stay in their home for two months at the beginning of 1998. They ‎helped me get in touch with Fuji TV and Mr. Shirakawa sent me an article and videotape ‎about Xu Fang.‎

After having learned more about Xu Fang from these materials, I was eager to meet a ‎living, non-eating human being. There are cases in history in which a few people, most ‎deeply religious, abstained from food for years and even decades. Paramahansa ‎Yogananda interviewed two of them--Theresa Neumann of Germany and Giri Bala of ‎India--and wrote about them in his book, Autobiography of a Yogi. However, these non-‎eaters were no longer alive; therefore, I was very excited to meet with Xu Fang. Mr. ‎Shirakawa from Fuji TV gave me Xu Fang's fax number and I sent her a letter with ‎general information about myself. I also explained that I am conducting research about ‎long-living people and requested a meeting with her. She promptly replied in a fax letter, ‎dated February 19, 1998, and quoted as follows:‎

I was very happy to receive this letter. I started preparations for a visit, acquiring a ‎Chinese visa and buying an airplane ticket to Beijing. In the article I read about Xu Fang, ‎it stated that she does not eat, yet she likes to smell apples. As a gift, I wanted to bring ‎her Japanese apples. There were very beautiful apples in Tokyo, but in the beginning of ‎March many types of apples, harvested about a half-year ago, had already lost most of ‎their fragrance. Jiro Tokawa went with me to a specialty shop, whose owner is an expert ‎on apples. He explained that there is only one kind that still maintains a distinct smell. He ‎ordered a few of those apples and in a couple of days they were delivered to me. They ‎were green in color, quite big, and smelled very nice.‎
I exchanged faxes with the mother of Xu Fang’s boyfriend, Mrs. Huo Huiying, who lives in ‎Shanghai and who helped me arrange my meeting with Xu Fang. She booked me a good, ‎inexpensive hotel and informed me that Xu Fang and her friends would meet me at the ‎airport on my arrival in Beijing.‎

Arrival; March 6, 1998; Friday

My flight was quite late, not arriving until about 9 p.m., and I worried that this was too ‎late for Xu Fang to come to the airport. I expected her and perhaps one of her friends, ‎but I was surprised to find six people awaiting me: Xu Fang; her younger sister Xu Fung; ‎Ryu Sin Tyu, a researcher who has been studying Xu Fang; his wife; their friend; and the ‎driver. I greeted them and thanked them for coming to meet me.‎

In the car on the way to Beijing, I sat beside Xu Fang. She was wearing white jeans and a ‎white jacket, looking slim and pretty. Her sister and Ryu were sitting in front of us and his ‎wife and their friend were behind us. Xu Fang’s sister graduated from the Russian ‎University and is fluent in Russian. She now works with Russians in an export-import ‎company and they call her by a Russian name, Nadya. She assisted us as an interpreter. ‎Ryu asked me about my work and I told him about my research on life extension. ‎Speaking about extraordinary people and cases, they mentioned a Chinese woman who ‎died long ago, but her body remains fresh, without any signs of decay. They said that if I ‎were interested, they would show me the body. Nadya also told me that recently Xu Fang ‎started to eat a little--an ice cream once a week or so. The reason was that she just ‎wants to be like others.‎

After about a half-hour drive, we arrived at the hotel and Xu Fang signed the guest ‎register for me in Chinese. We gathered in my room and talked for about a half-hour. ‎First, Xu Fang asked me the purpose of my visit. I told her I did not come to verify ‎whether or not she eats; rather, I came to meet her, talk to her, and write about her. I ‎told her my interest in her is purely private, and nobody supports me. I also hoped that ‎the results of my research on long-living people might be interesting to Xu Fang and her ‎friends. “If so, I’ll be feeling more relaxed,” said Xu Fang.‎

I had some souvenirs from Japan that I gave to Xu Fang and the others: the apples, ‎konnyaku jelly, umeboshi (pickled plums), and an electronic English-Japanese dictionary ‎‎(speaking edition). She smelled an apple and said it was good. The researcher, Dr. Ryu, ‎said there is another Chinese woman who has eaten nothing for a long time. He also ‎mentioned that he included some data about Xu Fang in his two books and that he would ‎show them to me next time. He also compiled an entire book about her, but it is not ‎published yet. I asked whether there were English publications about her--they replied ‎no.‎

I touched Xu Fang’s hand; it was warm--warmer than mine. Her sister’s hand was ‎similarly warm, and they said that all their family has warm hands. As Nadya said, Xu ‎Fang does not wear many warm clothes in winter--she does not feel the cold much. ‎Explaining her body warmth, Dr. Ryu said that the source of her energy is in her ‎kindness. Trying to find a possible physiological explanation, I asked about her rate of ‎breathing. Dr. Ryu replied that she does not need to breathe at all! But she was definitely ‎breathing and, seeing my surprised expression, Dr. Ryu said that she can breathe with ‎her skin. I mentioned my alternate dry fasting, when I lost about 18 pounds (8 ‎kilograms) of my weight. He said that if I continued the fast longer, I could probably ‎increase my weight again, after the primary loss of it. To fast for a long time, I must learn ‎to breathe through my skin, he added.‎

No food, now no air--it’s a real mystery. What about water? She drinks some water when ‎she is out with her friends. Sometimes, especially when it rains, she goes without water ‎for days. She drinks more water when she stays in Beijing, where the air is dry, and in ‎the summer when it is hot. However, in Shanghai--with its humid air--she drinks a little ‎and sometimes not at all. She occasionally drinks mineral water too. Her blood type is A; ‎her sister’s is B. I showed her the chart of foods for blood type A, in which cola is listed as ‎a drink to avoid; she said she feels bad after drinking cola.‎

Dr. Ryu, his wife, and their friend left around 11 p.m., but Xu Fang and her sister stayed ‎that night at the hotel, in the room next to mine. So, the two sisters and I continued to ‎talk until midnight. It was time to sleep and we talked about dreams for a while. Xu Fang ‎dreamt until the age of eighteen, when she was still eating. However, since her non-‎eating state began, she cannot recall her dreams. Perhaps Xu Fang’s non-dreaming is a ‎way to not expend the energy that is necessary for her daily activities. Nadya said she ‎had a dream the night before that water burst out of the ground like a fountain. I later ‎found in the Encyclopedia of Dreams under the word “fountain” that if a young woman ‎sees a sparkling fountain in the moonlight, it signifies ill-advised pleasure that may result ‎in a desertion. I regret that I did not warn her then about a possible disappointment, but ‎did she see her fountain in the moonlight? Next time I meet Nadya, I’ll ask her.‎

Xu Fang likes to meditate and in her meditations she sees Buddha in her third-eye region. ‎She was never taught about Buddha because her parents are communists and the ‎children were brought up in the atheistic way. After one year in her non-eating state, she ‎began to tell her two sisters and brother about Buddha and God. She was enthusiastic ‎when I mentioned exercises that I wanted to exchange with her. I proposed to take ‎photographs of her exercising and to put them in my book; she agreed. We all said good ‎night and the sisters went to their room.‎

First Day; March 7; Saturday

In the morning, Xu Fang and her sister came to my room. After a few minutes, Nadya ‎said, “See you later,” and went to her job. Xu Fang told me that she wanted to introduce ‎me to her friends. We took a taxi and, after 15 minutes, arrived at her office, a small ‎one-room apartment that she was renting in the Chinese Academy of Culture building. ‎This apartment is her office as well as where she lives with her boyfriend and business ‎companion, twenty-nine-year-old Le Jun Luo.‎

When we arrived, there were five people waiting for us: her boyfriend Luo and a family--‎Yue Hui Xiang, his wife Wei Bo Sieng, their daughter Yue Xin, and her husband Lu Huan. ‎After brief greetings, they said everyone was hungry, so we went to a nearby restaurant ‎for lunch. It was served in a separate room where we sat around a big round table with a ‎rotating part made of glass, the type I have seen in many eateries in Singapore. Three or ‎four waitresses served the food for us. The number of dishes was enormous: fried meat, ‎duck, and tofu; steamed carp fish; fish-head soup; many kinds of stewed and fried ‎vegetables; and rice. Everything was delicious, but Xu Fang drank only a small cup of leaf ‎tea--a type of green tea, light yellow in color.‎

Communication among the group was difficult because I do not speak Chinese and only ‎Xu Fang could speak a word in English. She had a hard time interpreting among her ‎friends and me. From what I could understand, some of them worked for the military and ‎the younger girl occasionally helped Xu Fang in her business of designing and selling ‎fashion garments.‎

All the members of this family were also her spiritual followers. They came to Xu Fang's ‎place to study the teachings of Buddha. They usually prayed before a small Buddha ‎statue that had been placed on the windowsill because of the lack of space. Near the ‎statue of Buddha were oranges and apples, including one that I brought from Japan. Xu ‎Fang and Luo were preparing to move from Beijing to Shanghai, where his parents live. ‎Their small living room/office with a computer in one corner was overloaded with clothes ‎piled everywhere. Her friends perceived Xu Fang as above ordinary people--like a ‎goddess--and they worshipped a picture of her placed on the piano in the room. Xu Fang ‎told me that she plays the piano a little.‎

You can find more about another nine days of my time with Xu Fang in the book.

http://www.longevitywatch.com/‎
 
Iron said:
I dont think it was a question of gut reactions, and I suppose that some of the veteran members have considered the possibility that nourishment is more than just food.

The question that was asked over and over again, was that sungazing may be deception for those living in 3D. Not by being impossible, but perhaps out of reach for many.
Its like telekinesis or other ESP phenomena. They can be developed? Yes, I think so. Are they crucially important? Not now.

Is learning how to live without food, now in 3D reality in this moment in space/time crucially important to justify the emotional investment of some posters in this thread?

I think it's a great observation and question, Iron.
 
Iron said:
I dont think it was a question of gut reactions, and I suppose that some of the veteran members have considered the possibility that nourishment is more than just food.

The question that was asked over and over again, was that sungazing may be deception for those living in 3D. Not by being impossible, but perhaps out of reach for many.
Its like telekinesis or other ESP phenomena. They can be developed? Yes, I think so. Are they crucially important? Not now.

Is learning how to live without food, now in 3D reality in this moment in space/time crucially important to justify the emotional investment of some posters in this thread?

Perhaps gut reactions was not the proper word, rejection or rather shift of focus towards perceived "emotional investment" as you put it would be more appropriate.

Myself I have none, just interest. Crucially important? sure not, oat cookies are also not, does that mean we shouldn't talk about oat cookies in this moment in space/time? Getting to learn a recipe and do it requires more emotional investment from me than it has been to read a bit about this topic and throw the question out there. This is not to put down any subject, just to show the point of the perceived "emotional investment".

Sun gazing being out of reach for many? I couldn't think of anything more in reach for all than the sun rays.

R
 
eliansito said:
Perhaps gut reactions was not the proper word, rejection or rather shift of focus towards perceived "emotional investment" as you put it would be more appropriate.

There is no rejection. If the topic was deemed "rejection material" it would be closed or deleted, as seem unfitting to the rest of the forum. The shift of focus as you put it, is a question necessary because some apparently have high hopes in that other forms of nourishment will be available for them.

And if all is lessons, learning to have a balanced approach to food is a lesson too. Remember you are in 3D for a reason, like all of us. To hope for shortcuts to accelerate the process is pure STS thinking.
I am writing this not to discourage you, but rather to get you to think about some of the implications involved, and realize that this, like vegetarianism, may be propagated as another tool to send people to sleep.
This however, do not mean that you cant be experimenting yourself.

eliansito said:
Myself I have none, just interest. Crucially important? sure not, oat cookies are also not, does that mean we shouldn't talk about oat cookies in this moment in space/time? Getting to learn a recipe and do it requires more emotional investment from me than it has been to read a bit about this topic and throw the question out there. This is not to put down any subject, just to show the point of the perceived "emotional investment".

Sun gazing being out of reach for many? I couldn't think of anything more in reach for all than the sun rays.

R

Yes, oat cookies from the point of view of the universe are not important, but in 3D I think can say that more people would find useful the knowledge about making oat cookies than the knowledge of sungazing.
If we take the possibility, based on the scales of hydrogens of Gurdjieff, that one being feeds on the energy , embodied/represented by the ingested food, more suitable for its vibrations, then it will become clear as to why sun gazing may be out of reach for many. Only those in the appropriate learning point would be able to utilize those.

Again, I am not discouraging you, just be sensible about the practice.
 
Reading through this thread, I recalled an observation I made several years ago...

I was given a single leaf from a "Money Plant" (Epipremnum aureum). This is a type of vine, and I was living in an apartment which had a sore lack of green, so I wanted to start some kind of indoor gardening project. I was told that this plant was hardy, could survive and thrive easily, and like a star fish, would grow enthusiastically from a single clipping.

Following the instructions offered with the leaf cutting, I got a small pot of water, (it was glass and looked like a fish bowl), tied the leaf to a stick and placed it so that it could 'drink' from the water. I also added to the water a tablespoon's worth of tea from a cup I'd brewed earlier, and then left it.

The idea is that this would give the leaf a chance to develop some roots which would then allow it to be transplanted into some potting soil.

Okay. So that's the set up. Here's where it got interesting, (for me, anyway; this was completely unexplored territory for me). . .

The leaf did indeed develop tendrils and sent them down into the water. It also grew upwards, sending a vine curling up along the stick, sprouting new leaves. It did this quite rapidly. Within a few weeks it had turned into an impressive and eager little life form. At this point I should have transferred it to potting soil, but I didn't. I was partly lazy, but partly I was very curious. It seemed to be quite happy just drinking water. So I left it, wanting to see how much further along it would go just on water.

Well, it went! It didn't stop growing. It grew many more leaves and crawled up the side of my window frame with no signs of letting up. I did eventually transplant it to potting soil as the whole arrangement was becoming ungainly and the water in the pot was turning a dark brown, but by that point the plant was a few feet long and sporting many leaves, several being much larger than the original clipping the whole organism had sprung from. -And I'd done nothing other than keep the water topped up. The question in my mind was, "Where was it getting all of that matter from?"

Now of course I know that carbon dioxide and sunlight are a significant portion of a plant's diet, but I hadn't realized just how significant! I suppose the little bit of tea I'd added to the water had provided enough organic material to keep the whole show running; that had been the idea anyway. Vitamins and minerals, while essential to any organism, are needed only in trace quantities in comparison to the amount of water required.

And so I learned in a very direct way that my notion of what plants ate was quite at odds with reality. I'd always assumed that plants somehow drew the bulk of their mass from the soil. This isn't the case, at least not with my little Epipremnum aureum vine.

It really gave the impression that a great deal of something was coming from nothing.

So then. . . How does this apply to humans?

I note that when a human consumes food, most of the matter of that food is excreted. We are drawing trace quantities of necessary vitamins and minerals from that food, as well as lots of stored energy which is released through various chemical reactions. But the gross mass of the matter we eat isn't what is needed; it's more a carrier medium for stored energy. -Recognizing this along with the experience of watching my little vine grow on a diet of air and water, demanded I re-think/visualize what it is exactly that allows humans to grow and operate. We also need energy, water, air and trace quantities of minerals. So now when I hear about humans able to exist without food, I think about these things, and I'm not quite so amazed by the idea.

On the other side of the question, however, I recognize that we are not designed to absorb carbon from the air as plants are able; we do need more material to enter through the mouth and stomach, but when an adult human has finished growing, how much raw material is really necessary? Enough to grow hair, fingernails and replacement matter for the various cells which regularly die off, but how much is that?

Maybe the Yogi master who eats only an orange now and again is taking care of those direct material requirements while drawing the bulk of his energy through some other mechanism. Gurdjief described in detail the various hydrogens and oxygens (as defined by his system), and that they are indeed a type of food which is very different from material food. Also, there are many, many descriptions of energetic feeding in reality, and that humans despite being tied to the material realm, are able to take part in this process to a degree. So presumably, the human body is capable of performing some mechanism by which energies can be processed from our environment in ways other than the chemical sugar reactions we are familiar with.

Just some thoughts.
 
_http://vivendodaluz.com/EN/articles/prana_has_weight.html

PRANA HAS A MEASURABLE WEIGHT

Additional Weight And Unknown Vacuum Energies Of Living Organisms

Dr. Amrit Sorli


In 1987 I carried out experiments that demonstrate an additional weight of living ‎organisms. Experiments were done in a closed environment that showed an increasing ‎of weight during the growing phase of an organism and decreasing of it after its death. ‎Therefore, there appears to be an additional weight of living organisms. This additional ‎weight could be due to an unknown vacuum energy containment that exists in living ‎organisms as it can not be accounted for otherwise within these closed systems.‎

Preliminary experiments have been carried out on the Bio-technical Faculty, Ljubljana, ‎Slovenia in June 1987. Measurements have been performed on a Mettler Zurich M5 ‎scale. Six test-tubes were filled with three millilitres of water solution made out of ‎meat and sugar. In four test-tubes were put fungus and in two test-tubes not. All test ‎tubes were welded airtight. The weight difference between test-tubes was measured ‎for ten days. In three days of growing period the weight of test-tubes with fungus ‎increased on average for 34 micrograms and in the last seven days it remained ‎unchanged. The experiment was carried out in sterile circumstances. It shows that ‎roundness of space-time around an organism is increasing during its growing period: ‎Fg (dead) organic + dFg = Fg alive.‎

In other experiment two test-tubes were filled with 5 grams of Californian worms — ‎two with distillate water. All test-tubes were welded airtight. The weight difference ‎between test-tubes was measured for 5 hours. First hour there was no difference ‎second and third hour difference increased on average for 4.5 micrograms and remain ‎stable in the last two hours. Experiment shows that the roundness of space-time ‎around an organism decreases at the time of its death: Fg alive = Fg dead + dFg.‎

The experiment was repeated from August to September 1988 at the Faculty for ‎Natural Science and Technology, Ljubljana. Two Mettler Zurich scales, type H20T were ‎used in the measurements. Identical results were obtained. Experimental test-tube ‎was filled with 70 grams of live California worms and a small test-tube, filled with 0.25 ‎ml of 36% water solution of formaldehyde. The control test tube contained 70 ml of ‎distilled water and a small test tube with formaldehyde. Both test tubes were welded, ‎wiped clean with 70% ethanol, and put into the weighing chamber of the balance. ‎Approximately one hour was allowed for acclimatisation. Later both test-tubes were ‎measured three times at intervals of five minutes. Then the test tubes were turned ‎upside down to spill the solution of formaldehyde and again measured seven times at ‎intervals of fifteen minutes. The weight of the worms increases first 3 minutes after ‎the poisoning on average for 60 micrograms and than went down. Fifteen minutes ‎after poisoning, the weight diminished on the average by 93.6 micrograms. The entire ‎experiment was repeated twelve times. The standard deviation amounted to 16 ‎micrograms. The pressure in both test tubes was one atmosphere for the entire ‎duration of the experiment, the temperature in both test tubes was the same. Neither ‎the pressure nor the temperature could have therefore been the cause for the ‎difference of the weight.‎

In 1997 I published the results of the experiments in the "Newsletter" nr. 18-19 of ‎Monterey Institute for Study of Alternative Healing Arts, California. Third of March ‎‎1998 Dr. Shiuji Inomata from Japan informs editor S. Savva that Dr. Kaoru Kavada got ‎same results with the rats. Closed airtight in the plastic containers they lost some ‎weight at the time of death.‎

Accordingly, the formula E = mcc, by transforming 93,6 micrograms of matter into ‎energy, releases 2 X 10 E9 calories of energy. In the experiment, no such energy ‎release was observed. It means that energy that enters in living organisms and leaves ‎them at the time of death does not belong to known energies that are caring ‎electromagnetic, strong or week nuclear force. Momentary increasing of weight after ‎poisoning shows that organism is in active relation with this unknown vacuum energy ‎and that this energy is essential for its functioning.‎

Such a type of energy in Indian traditional medicine is called Prana, in Chinese QI. ‎Extended research will provide more data what is unknown vacuum energy that causes ‎additional weight.‎

Dr. Amrit Sorli

Best

King
 
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