John Keel and Operation Trojan Horse

shijing

The Living Force
Vulcan59 said:
Here is what it says on Chapter 6, pg 94 from the book that I have

Why UFO's aka Operation Trojan Horse said:
6.Flexible Phantoms of the Sky

The Wednesday phenomenon is quite evident in the historical events as well as the contemporary sightings. A disproportionate number of UFO events seem to be concentrated on Wednesdays and Saturdays, particularly the landing and contact cases. The frequency of the Wednesday-Saturday events immediately removes the phenomenon from a framework of chance or coincidence. After I discovered this basic pattern in 1966-67, other researchers checked it with their own data and verified it. Historian Lucius Farish uncovered a number of early statements and cases which further indicated that this Wednesday phenomenon had been observed and reported upon long ago.

Thanks for posting the actual text of this passage (and thanks to Approaching Infinity just today, I finally have the full PDF copy that I can reference myself). The above does support gaman's hypothesis of UFO frequency falling into the pattern he mentioned (depending on how you count, of course). The only problem now is that the figures quoted by Vulcan59 from the same book don't support his claim, because Saturday is merely average there, so Keel contradicts himself. This is a dilemma that probably only Keel would be in a position to resolve, short of us getting ahold of the actual frequency data somehow...

Addendum: It just struck me that the same pattern holds true for the breathing program right now (Monday and Thursday) fwiw.
 

gaman

Jedi Master
shijing said:
The above does support gaman's hypothesis of UFO frequency falling into the pattern he mentioned (depending on how you count, of course).

Well, unless I've missed something, it turns out it doesn't support the "falling on the intervals" pattern too well because he stated Saturday was the other peak. So below, Wednesday starts a short interval, but not Saturday. In the octave layout, please correct me if si-do isn't the other short interval.

do---re---mi-fa---so---la---si-do
M T W T F S S M

Rotating the days 1 to the right yields 1 peak at the end of the first short interval and the other at the beginning of the last short interval (if the first Monday started on "re"):

re---mi-fa---so---la---si-do---re
M T W T F S S M

I didn't see anything line up when reversing the intervals either (did this just to be thorough) sooo... I'm not too impressed with my idea at this point :)

shijing said:
The only problem now is that the figures quoted by Vulcan59 from the same book don't support his claim, because Saturday is merely average there, so Keel contradicts himself. This is a dilemma that probably only Keel would be in a position to resolve, short of us getting ahold of the actual frequency data somehow...

Why UFO's aka Operation Trojan Horse said:
A disproportionate number of UFO events seem to be concentrated on Wednesdays and Saturdays, particularly the landing and contact cases.

I wonder if in this statement he did some filtering and qualification (note when he says "particularly the landing and contact cases") that were not done in the chart? That is my supposition but it still doesn't support the pattern I thought I saw. If the events had peaked on the beginning of each short interval, or the ending of each short interval, to me it would have been more worthy of note.

I fear I caused a misdirection of focus over nothing.

shijing said:
Addendum: It just struck me that the same pattern holds true for the breathing program right now (Monday and Thursday) fwiw.

I don't see this. Would you elaborate?
 

shijing

The Living Force
Hi gaman --

If we took Keel's p. 94 quote at face value, we could get the following pattern:

do---re---mi-fa---so---la---si-do
Th F S S M T W Th

For the breathing program schedule, it would be as such:

do---re---mi-fa---so---la---si-do
T W Th F S S M T

Whether it is meaningful or not I don't know, but the interval spacing does at least work out as long as you are allowed to align the beginning of the sequence with any arbitrary day of the week (this is the crucial part, and if it is important to only begin on a Monday, then this won't work).

I fear I caused a misdirection of focus over nothing.

We all have the right to choose which posts we spend time on. Even if your hypothesis is wrong, it wasn't conscious or malicious misdirection, so I wouldn't worry about it. :)
 

Vulcan59

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FOTCM Member
After re-reading I came to the same conclusion meaning that his chart on pg14. was looking at all data but his comments referring to Wednesdays and Saturdays peaks could only be taking the "landing and contact cases", OSIT.

Edit: Spelling
 

1984

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Moderator
FOTCM Member
Laurentien said:
Did anyone received the latest book of Richard Dolan yet.

For those in the states who have ordered this, my book arrived today. I had the nice surprise of finding Richard had signed it for me. :)
I started reading it earlier and couldn't put it down. Definitely looking forward to (hopefully) finishing it this weekend.
 

Vulcan59

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FOTCM Member
He does say on his website that all pre-ordered books will be signed and shipped. Perhaps because of the numerous delays, OSIT.
 

gotogo

Jedi Master
shijing said:
Hi gaman --

If we took Keel's p. 94 quote at face value, we could get the following pattern:

do---re---mi-fa---so---la---si-do
Th F S S M T W Th

For the breathing program schedule, it would be as such:

do---re---mi-fa---so---la---si-do
T W Th F S S M T

Whether it is meaningful or not I don't know, but the interval spacing does at least work out as long as you are allowed to align the beginning of the sequence with any arbitrary day of the week (this is the crucial part, and if it is important to only begin on a Monday, then this won't work).

I fear I caused a misdirection of focus over nothing.

We all have the right to choose which posts we spend time on. Even if your hypothesis is wrong, it wasn't conscious or malicious misdirection, so I wouldn't worry about it. :)

I was enjoying watching this discussion. :) But since I am not finishing John Keel's books I was hesitating to jump in. But for the breathing/meditation program schedule I built some idea so would like to share with you.

First of all, I am not sure if the beginning point of Do is adjustable.
It is also questionable to start Sunday as Do as Ouspensky described in ISOTM p386-9 (see the attached image).
As he wrote there:
I did not try to go any further as I did not have the necessary books to hand and there was very little time.
This thought could be his 1st draft so to speak so we had better examined it.
But my point is once the Do point is fixed then it should not be adjusted if the target we want to apply is a cosmic phenomena. ('Relativity' can be applied if it is not a cosmic phenomena for example something you can decide when to start and when to finish freely like having an aim to drive to somewhere).

Also the important point 1st we should examine when we apply 'octave' concept is whether the target is descending or ascending. And for the breathing/meditation program schedule, if we see it not from our efforts point of view but from some sort of transmission from higher to lower (BTW that is now I feel it when I do the program) then it is a descending octave like 'ray of creation'.
So it can be like this:

do-si---la---so---fa-mi---re---do
S M T W Th F S S

(although there is a slight gap because the 1st interval is 'before' Monday and 2nd one is 'after' Thursday)

I kept Sunday as Do as Ouspensy did (not yet having back up data though).


What is curious for me is because Cs mentioned Monday as a special day in Session 16 July 2009
Q: (A***) That's a good reason to learn to dance! (Ark) Well, how long would you have to dance to keep the block going long enough?

A: You create it with the dance, chant, musical induced state, and then just add power as needed.

Q: (S) We just run some extension cords, and... (laughter) (L) But how often do you add power?

A: With the current imbalance, about once a week. Later, as the balance is restored, it can be once a month... Dark of the moon.

Q: (S) What did they mean by "add power"? (L) Do it again. (P) Is it a special day of the week? (L) Well, they said once a month, dark of the moon... Oh, you want to know if it's once a week, then which day?

A: Moon-day.

Q: (L) Well this is all very interesting stuff. Why weren't you telling us this a long time ago? (laughter)

A: We think you know that! There was much you needed to learn on your own for strength and also there was the factor of trust. We understand that humanity has been led astray many times and there is a lot of metaphysical "noise" out there. After this time, we think that even with the "open" nature of the future and reality, we have not misled. The first 6 years were spent trying to increase your awareness and help to purge illusions. Now you see the changes in your world that we spoke of. Now, we hope that you will begin to understand that there is hope, but that we and all other STO beings can only act through you (pause) in the collective sense.

(There are many riddles here and there to apply the low of 'octave' to Time though...)
 

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shijing

The Living Force
Hi GotoGo --

GotoGo said:
First of all, I am not sure if the beginning point of Do is adjustable.

This is the $64,000 question -- I think that it may not, and I think your point below about distinguishing between cosmic and mundane phenomena is probably a good one:

GotoGo said:
But my point is once the Do point is fixed then it should not be adjusted if the target we want to apply is a cosmic phenomena. ('Relativity' can be applied if it is not a cosmic phenomena for example something you can decide when to start and when to finish freely like having an aim to drive to somewhere).

GotoGo said:
Also the important point 1st we should examine when we apply 'octave' concept is whether the target is descending or ascending. And for the breathing/meditation program schedule, if we see it not from our efforts point of view but from some sort of transmission from higher to lower (BTW that is now I feel it when I do the program) then it is a descending octave like 'ray of creation'.
So it can be like this:

do-si---la---so---fa-mi---re---do
S M T W Th F S S

(although there is a slight gap because the 1st interval is 'before' Monday and 2nd one is 'after' Thursday)

That's another interesting point that I hadn't thought of -- I am not sure if it works out cleanly with the gap you describe above, but the only way to fix it would be to arbitrarily move 'do' of course, this is not a cosmic phenomena per se, so maybe that is OK? One thing I do like about this concept as applied to our breathing program is that the 3rd and 7th intervals are unique in Ouspensky's recapitulation of Gurdjieff's teaching because they both require an extra 'push' to make it to the next interval. I kind of think that the two days everyone is breathing in unison could be seen that way -- the breathing and meditation giving that extra 'push' at fixed intervals, twice a week.

GotoGo said:
What is curious for me is because Cs mentioned Monday as a special day in Session 16 July 2009
Q: (A***) That's a good reason to learn to dance! (Ark) Well, how long would you have to dance to keep the block going long enough?

A: You create it with the dance, chant, musical induced state, and then just add power as needed.

Q: (S) We just run some extension cords, and... (laughter) (L) But how often do you add power?

A: With the current imbalance, about once a week. Later, as the balance is restored, it can be once a month... Dark of the moon.

Q: (S) What did they mean by "add power"? (L) Do it again. (P) Is it a special day of the week? (L) Well, they said once a month, dark of the moon... Oh, you want to know if it's once a week, then which day?

A: Moon-day.

Q: (L) Well this is all very interesting stuff. Why weren't you telling us this a long time ago? (laughter)

A: We think you know that! There was much you needed to learn on your own for strength and also there was the factor of trust. We understand that humanity has been led astray many times and there is a lot of metaphysical "noise" out there. After this time, we think that even with the "open" nature of the future and reality, we have not misled. The first 6 years were spent trying to increase your awareness and help to purge illusions. Now you see the changes in your world that we spoke of. Now, we hope that you will begin to understand that there is hope, but that we and all other STO beings can only act through you (pause) in the collective sense.

Yes, this recent reference to 'Moon-day' is pretty interesting. I don't really know what to make of that yet -- although I don't know much about Wicca, it kind of strikes me as a Wiccan (or nature religion) concept, although if that were true the implication would be that there was some practical scientific knowledge about the days of the week that were preserved in those kinds of traditions. It may ultimately underscore your suggestion that 'do' should be aligned immutably with Monday, though, in the cosmic sense.
 

KC Kelly

Padawan Learner
Fortunately, I was able to order a copy of OTH through the interloan branch of the local public library. Took me a while to run across it on this thread, but in a couple of weeks a copy was available for pickup--seemed almost too easy after considering some of the accounts of forumites to get their hands on a copy.

At this point Keel’s OTH has been pretty thoroughly covered here. I just hoped to contribute a bit by taking a look at Keel’s hypothesis which resonates that of much of what the C‘s have been relating concerning hyper-dimensional realities--seemingly rare for researchers in the UFO studies field. I dug around a bit making a few notes and have excerpted some of the areas where Keel alludes to the hyper-dimensionality of the phenomena, and how similar his tentative explanations are to what Laura and the C’s have been sharing for years. Well ahead of his time, as others have already noted.


OTH said:
[T]he witnesses to seemingly solid “hard” objects rarely produced details which could be matched with other “hard” sightings. Thus the basic data--the descriptions of the objects seen--were filled with puzzling contradictions which weakened rather than supported the popular explanations and hypotheses. But there are actually definite hidden correlations within those contradictions…

[Many reports are] of luminous objects which behave in curious, unnatural ways. The great majority of all sightings throughout history have been of “soft” luminous objects, or objects which were transparent, translucent, changed size and shape, or appeared and disappeared suddenly. Sightings of seemingly solid metallic objects have always been quite rare. The “soft” sightings, being more numerous, comprise the real phenomenon and deserve the most study. The scope, frequency, and distribution of the sightings make the popular extraterrestrial (interplanetary) hypothesis completely untenable.

Apparently the U.S. Air Force intelligence teams realized early in the game (1947-1949) that it would be logistically impossible for any foreign power, or even any extraterrestrial source, to maintain such a huge force of flying machines in the Western Hemisphere without suffering an accident that would expose the whole operation, or without revealing patterns which would reveal their bases. There was never any real question about the reliability of the witnesses. Pilots, top military men, and the whole crews of ships had seen unidentified flying objects during World War II and had submitted excellent technical reports to military intelligence.

The real problem remained: What had these people seen? The general behavior of these objects clearly indicated that they were paraphysical (i.e., not composed of solid matter). They were clocked at incredible speeds in the atmosphere but did not produce sonic booms. They performed impossible maneuvers which denied the laws of inertia. They appeared and disappeared suddenly, like ghosts. Since there was no way that their paraphysicality could be supported and explained scientifically, the Air Force specialists were obliged to settle upon an alternate hypothesis which could be accepted by the public and the scientific community. They chose the “natural phenomena” explanation and found they could successfully fit most of the sighting descriptions and explanations of meteors, swamp gas, weather balloons, and the like, to everyone’s satisfaction--except the original witnesses.

[…]

Sensible research must be dictated by this basic precept: Any acceptable theory must offer an explanation for all the data. The paraphysical hypothesis meets this criterion. The extraterrestrial hypothesis does not.

and as kenlee wrote already

kenlee said:
[…] The astral world of illusion which (on psychical evidence) is greatly inhabited by illusion prone spirits is well known for its multifarious imaginative activities and exhortations. Seemingly some of it’s denizens are eager to exemplify principalities and powers. Others pronounce upon morality, spirituality, Deity, etc. All of these astral exponents who invoke human consciousness may be sincere, but many of these may be framed to propagate some special phantasm, perhaps at an earlier incarnation, or to indulge an inveterate and continuing technological urge toward materialistic progress, or simply to astonish and disturb the gullible for the devil of it”

A milkman was walking along a beach south of Sydney, Australia, early one morning in the summer of 1960 when he came upon a strange metal disk surrounded by a violet light and making a whining sound. Two men suddenly appeared, both dressed in space suits complete with transparent helmets. Their eyes were blue and had an Oriental slant. They allegedly addressed the milkman in perfect English, although their lips did not move. He said their voices seemed to come from square boxes on their belts. After warning the milkman that entities from Orion were preparing to take over the earth, they said that they had been able to contact him because of his aura. They promised to return and contact him again at some time in the future, stating that he “was going to be used for a certain job.”

[…]

Perhaps [ultraterrestrials] can even see the entire [electromagnetic] spectrum and can clearly view not only our limited world, but the more vast invisible worlds which surround us. […] A large of the UFO phenomena is hidden from us and is taking place beyond the limited range of our eyes. We can only see the objects and the entities under certain circumstances, and perhaps only certain types of people can see them at all.

Thus, by all the standards of our sciences (and our common sense), the UFOs do not really exist as solid objects. They may be a constant part of our environment, but they are not an actual part of our reality. We cannot, therefore, catalogue them as manufactured products of some extraterrestrial civilization sharing our own dimensions of time and space. They are extra dimensional, able to move through our spatial coordinates at will but also able to enter and leave our three-dimensional world. If this is a true hypothesis, then they may also be operating beyond the limitations of our time coordinates. Our years may be minutes to them. Our future may be their past, and thus they have total knowledge of the things in store for us.
[…]

In story after story we have testimonial proof that the objects and their occupants are not made of normal substances.

The hard (seemingly solid) objects are another problem. Bullets have been fired at them and ricocheted off. They sometimes leave imprints on the ground where they land. If they are the products of a superior intelligence with an advanced technology, they seem to be suffering from faulty workmanship. Since 1896 there have been hundreds of reports in which lone witnesses have stumbled upon grounded hard objects being repaired by their pilots. In flight, they have an astounding habit of losing pieces of metal. They seem to be ill-made, always falling apart, frequently exploding in mid-air. There are so many of these incidents that we must wonder if they aren’t really deliberate. Maybe they are meant to foster the belief that the objects are real and mechanical.

And it certainly fits that one of their primary and most important of deceptions is to look 3 dimensional; therefore extraterrestrial, physical and material.

Another interesting hypothesis from Keel is to correspond certain so-called “extraterrestrial” phenomena with a rather simple scientific explanation based on the dynamics of the electromagnetic spectrum:

OTH said:
Let assume that UFOs exist at frequencies beyond visible light but that they can adjust their frequency and descend the electromagnetic spectrum--just as you can move the dial of your radio a variable condenser up and down the scale of radio frequencies. When a UFOs frequency nears that of visible light, it would first appear as a purplish blob of violet. As it moves further down the scale, it would seem to change to blue, then to cyan (bluish green). In our chapter on meteors we note that they most often appear as bluish-green objects. I have therefore classified that section of the color spectrum as the UFO entry field. When the objects begin to move into our spatial and time coordinates, they gear down from the higher frequencies, passing progressively from ultraviolet to violet to bluish green. When they stabilize within our dimensions, they radiate energy on all frequencies and become a glaring white.

In the white condition the object can traverse distances visibly, but radical maneuvers of ascent or descent require it to alter its frequencies again, and this process produces new color changes. In the majority of all landing reports, the object is said to have turned orange (red and yellow) or red before descending. When they settle to the ground they “solidify,” and the light dims or goes out altogether. On takeoff, they begin to glow red again. Sometimes they reportedly turn a brilliant red and vanish. Other times they shift through all the colors of the spectrum, turn white, and fly off into the night sky until they look like just another star.

Since the color red is so closely associated with the landing and takeoff processes, I termed this end of the spectrum as the UFO departure field.

The great mass of observational data fully supports these hypotheses. Our glowing objects change color, size, and form, and this fact indicates that they are comprised of energy which can be manipulated to temporarily simulate terrestrial matter. Such energies must be somehow collected together at the invisible frequencies, and then frequency changes are brought about to “lower” them into the visible spectrum. Once they become visible, they can then organize themselves into atoms and produce any desired form.

Along with this EM theory, Keel puts forth fresh, new hypotheses and "takes" that I hadn’t read anywhere else like the Wednesdays and Saturdays peaks to many UFO flaps, and the preponderance of the twenty-fourth day (or night) of the month oddity.

One of the better UFO book reads. Already have The Eighth Tower on order next. Thanks all for your individual “takes’ on the books that are discussed on this forum. I'm guessing there have been so many books no doubt many of us would have never even known existed without the network here, and am looking forward to a discussion thread on The Eight Tower when enough folks get the opportunity to read it!
 

gotogo

Jedi Master
shijing said:
That's another interesting point that I hadn't thought of -- I am not sure if it works out cleanly with the gap you describe above, but the only way to fix it would be to arbitrarily move 'do' of course, this is not a cosmic phenomena per se, so maybe that is OK? One thing I do like about this concept as applied to our breathing program is that the 3rd and 7th intervals are unique in Ouspensky's recapitulation of Gurdjieff's teaching because they both require an extra 'push' to make it to the next interval. I kind of think that the two days everyone is breathing in unison could be seen that way -- the breathing and meditation giving that extra 'push' at fixed intervals, twice a week.

Hello shijing,
It took a while to response to this. :-[
The brief answer is yes and no. Probably we are thinking of deferent phenomena. I think I understand what you are thinking of. So for that yes. But I was addressing a kind of cosmic phenomena like the Wave itself when thinking about it as a 'descending' octave. So in that sense, no.

There are many points to discuss and I though it could become way off from the original thread topic of 'John Keel and Operation Trojan Horse'. So for that in mind, I created a new thread Time on Enneagram with the recent hot signal of '9' (today is still 09/09/09 in CA). ;)
 

shijing

The Living Force
GotoGo said:
Hello shijing,
It took a while to response to this. :-[
The brief answer is yes and no. Probably we are thinking of deferent phenomena. I think I understand what you are thinking of. So for that yes. But I was addressing a kind of cosmic phenomena like the Wave itself when thinking about it as a 'descending' octave. So in that sense, no.

Understood, and you are right -- what I was talking about was not systematic in the way that you had described -- merely inspirational if you will. I know you are trying to piece together something much more intricate with what you are studying involving the octave, enneagram, and so forth.

GotoGo said:
There are many points to discuss and I though it could become way off from the original thread topic of 'John Keel and Operation Trojan Horse'. So for that in mind, I created a new thread Time on Enneagram with the recent hot signal of '9' (today is still 09/09/09 in CA). ;)

Very good idea, and see you there on that thread!
 

Vulcan59

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Just in case you guys missed it, there is an interview with John Keel conducted by Fortean Times carried on SOTT's main page.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/192949-John-Keel-R-I-P-
 

Iconoclast

Jedi Master
i finished OTH last week. a fascinating read full of insights that were very advanced for the time.

i also did a tiny bit of research on one of the incidents he mentioned in passing that happened in feb. 1937 in vienna.

and indeed there are several short articles about a mysterious 'Himmelsschreiber' (sky writer).
(i confined myself to just one newspaper)

content is in german, i'm afraid - i would translate but it isn't really that important. just interesting to see something like that in 'black and white' ;)

_http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno?apm=0&aid=nfp&datum=19370214&seite=10&zoom=2
_http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno?apm=0&aid=nfp&datum=19370215&seite=10&zoom=2
_http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno?apm=0&aid=nfp&datum=19370216&seite=26&zoom=2
_http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno?apm=0&aid=nfp&datum=19370217&seite=5&zoom=2
(if you speak german, look for the word 'himmelsschreiber')
 

Vulcan59

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There is a picture of that UFO reported in Austria in 1937. The source does state that this was reported by John Keel. (could be a generic photo)
 
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