Alton Towers, Sir Francis Bacon and the Rosicrucians

MJF

Dagobah Resident
In 1568, Gilbert married Mary Cavendish, daughter of his stepmother, Bess of Hardwick.Laura: Who are the 'philosophers of Dancar?'

Q: A 'car' belonging to Dan. The subject was talked about in the 18th century.

A: Yes.

Q: To what place were they referring when they talked about Dancar?

A: British.

Q: Why would they call it Dancar?

A: Locator.

Q: There is no place called Dancar.

A: No?


I think Dancar is code for the town of Doncaster in the county of Yorkshire. Here is the Wikpaedia entry for the town: Doncaster - Wikipedia

You will see that in Roman times it was originally a fort called Danum.

The latin name for a fort is "Castra". This was often corrupted down to "Cair" in the celtic tongue and 'Caster' or 'Chester' in old English.

As you can see in the Wikipaedia entry it states that Doncaster is generally believed to be the Cair Daun listed as one of the 28 cities of Britain in the 9th-century History of the Britons traditionally attributed to Nennius.

If you reverse "Cair Daun" you get "Daun Cair", which etymologically is close to 'Dancar'. Remember Bacon and his fellow Rosicrucians were experts at codes and ciphers so a reversal like this would be child's play to them.

The only problem now is to pin down where in Doncaster the philosophers (Rosicrucians) may have met during the 18th century. There are a number of old mansions and estates in and around Doncaster. One will need to link one of these with a known or suspected Rosicrucian of the 18th century.

Any ideas?​
I have been reading the session dated 31 October 1998 and found I think a number of clues relating to the Rosicrucians and one possibly to the 'Philosophers of Dancar'. I will set out the relevant references first:

Q: The reason I have been focusing on Europe is because you said that this thing we were supposed to find was in the Rhineland...

A: But there are always connections, both hither and yon. Tricky those Rosicrucians, tricky. And what of Piri Reis?

***************************************


A: The journal, to start with. One's objectives should be outlined. The scientist usually begins with this for "fine tuning." We see more opportunities coming though. We led you to the garden, and you planted the beanstalk. Now watch it grow, Jack!

Q: (L) That doesn't mean there is going to be a giant going around saying "fee, fie, foe, fum," does it?

A: The giant is in the meaning.

Q: You mean we gotta kill a giant?

A: No.

Q: (A) I also wanted to ask if I should be more active and ask more questions in future sessions, or to ask less questions and work more on my own?

A: Questions open the doors, Arkadiusz.

A: Well, what of the fable?

Q: (L) Well, Jack got these beans and planted them and they grew. He climbed the beanstalk and figured out how to transform or kill the giant, and got the treasure, and ran away and chopped the beanstalk down so the giant couldn't get him. (F) I remember that he used the beanstalk to get to the same level with the giant. (L) Well, which does it mean? Does he use the beanstalk to rise to the level of the giant, get the treasure and live there, or does he run away with the treasure and chop down the beanstalk?

A: Take your pick.


Q: (L) Well, the essence of the story is that Jack was successful. He planted these magic beans and they REALLY grew, like OVERNIGHT! He woke up the next day and the beanstalk reached all the way to the clouds - that is how fast it was. I guess that what you have been doing in this job is planting magic beans that are gonna take off and grow like crazy and be a ladder you can climb to some giant success! If I remember correctly, there was a harp involved. (A) I want to ask if these sessions we are having are affecting Frank's health in a negative way?

*****************************************

Q: I would like for you to give me a super-duper, hunky-dory, knock-me-off-my-socks clue to my treasure hunt.

A: Chevin.


I will come back to the references to Jack and the Beanstalk later and some of the other statements. Belive me, there is an absolute treasure trove in this session, much of which I think relates to the Rosicrucians. Note how the C's say "Tricky those Rosicrucians, tricky". This implies how clever they are in concealing things. I will show how this applies to the Shepherds of Arcadia painting and why the C's should mention "Have you overlooked North America" in the same session in a follow up post.

For now, I wish to focus on the clue they gave of "Chevin". If anyon ehas already pursued this and I am just repeating what they found, I apologise in advance. Whare is Chevin? Well when I researched it, it took me to Yorkshire and specifically near the area where Doncaster is located.​

The Chevin is the name given to the ridge on the south side of Wharfedale in Leeds, West Yorkshire, England, overlooking the market town of Otley, and often known as Otley Chevin.

The origins of the name Chevin are uncertain; the earliest attestation is in an eleventh-century copy of a charter from 972 which gives the spelling scefinc, while a charter of around 1030 gives the form on Scefinge. The most probable origin, according to a range of authorities, is a Brittonic word whose modern Welsh descendant is cefn ("back", "ridge", "ridge of high land"). This word appears in other hill-names, such as Cefn Cribwr and Cefn Bryn in Glamorgan amongst many others in Wales, and also, it has been argued, The Cheviot in Northumberland, and the Cévennes in France.

The Chevin is largely covered in attractive old woodland and heathland. It is a part of the Carboniferous Millstone Grit group. A Roman road ran along the top of the Chevin, part of the road that linked Eboracum (York), Calcaria (Tadcaster) and Olicana (Ilkley), perhaps on the same route as the modern road, Yorkgate, or perhaps about 800 metres to the south.

The highest point of the Chevin is often thought to be Surprise View, however it is in fact Beacon Hill next to Yorkgate quarry which reaches 283 metres (928 ft) at grid reference SE199441[4] and used to be the site of a trig point. Surprise View is the more visited summit of the Chevin and offers extensive views of Otley and Wharfedale, and has an adjacent car park. It is the site of a cross erected every Easter since 1969.[5]

Parts of the Chevin, known as the Danefield Estate, belonged to landowner Walter Fawkes and his descendants. After World War II these areas were donated to Otley Urban District Council as a memorial to those from the Wharfe Valley who had lost their lives during the war.[6

The Roman Map of Britain above shows a sector of Ermine Street for which there was an alternative route. As Ermine Street extended north out of Lincoln and past Scampton an alternative course of Ermine Street curved left and formed a semicircle on a wide heading west of the Humber Estuary. The straight northerly route, traced in red on the map, between Lincoln and York was the shorter, but was not passable over the Humber Estuary during adverse weather conditions. Thus an alternative route was established (see also Roman roads in Britain). This 'alternative' route is detailed in the Antonine Itinerary and linked York (Eboracum), Castleford (Lagecium), Doncaster (Danum), Littleborough (Agelocum) and Lincoln (Lindum). Beginning at the modern Lincolnshire Showground the portion of this route in Lincolnshire is known as Till Bridge Lane, the modern A1500.[6] The route in the Doncaster area, and again north of Castleford, is known as the Roman Ridge or Roman Rigg.

The Roman Ridge is that part of the Roman road of Ermine Street located in the Doncaster area of South Yorkshire, England. Although in places, Ermine Street follows the modern Great North Road (now numbered the A638), there is a stretch between Sunnyfields and Red House which is known as the Roman Ridge.

The Roman Ridge is colloquially known as the Roman Rigg, or ridge.

Now I am not saying this is definitive proof but if Dancar is Doncaster in Yorkshire and is the place where the Philosophers (Rosicrucian) met, then this is possibly corroboration. The C's say the Rosicrucians are tricky but they appear to be even trickier!

I have not been able to determine where in Doncaster they may have met. In the 17th century Doncaster was not a particularly large town but it would feature in the English Civil War in the middle of the century. Gilbert Talbot, the 7th Earl of Shrewsbury owned considerable parcels of land in Yorkshire where the City of Sheffield (not far from Doncaster) was their main base. His marriage to Mary Cavendish, the daughter of Bess of Hardwick (one of the richest widows in England), would have brought even more Yorkshire properties into his property portfolio, including perhaps one in Doncaster. Doncaster was a fairly off the beaten track sort of place to host a secret meeting of Rosicrucians who didn't want to draw attention to themselves. Such a meeting in London or York might have been far more visible.

The second point I would like to draw out is the C's remarks seemingly directed to Ark:

"A: The journal, to start with. One's objectives should be outlined. The scientist usually begins with this for "fine tuning." We see more opportunities coming though. We led you to the garden, and you planted the beanstalk. Now watch it grow, Jack! "

On the surface this seems to imply that they have given Ark the clues, or seeds, now let them germinate like Jack's beans into a large beanstalk, i.e., the Unified Field Theory. However, I also think it is a reference to Sir Francis Bacon since, along with Roger Bacon, he is viewed as the father of the scientific method and empiricism, although many prefer to link this with Sir Isaac Newton one of his successors and a President of The Royal Society. Indeed, The Royal Society was in essence Bacon's brainchild. If you view Bacon's scientific methodology and the creation of The Royal Society as the start of the Age of Science and Invention, then you can see how Bacon had planted the beans/seeds leading to this. Hence, Francis Bacon could be said to be one of the true giants of science.
 

MJF

Dagobah Resident
Well I hope you find this posting a bit more meaty.

You asked me to dig deeper into history and that is certainly what I have been doing these last couple of weeks. As you know, it can take time to dig out material and discern a pattern.

In the session dated 28 June 1997 the subject of St Albans came up again:

Q: Well, Cecil was the fellow who kidnapped me. And, when he was arrested, the Navy came and took him away saying he was "incompetent to stand trial" because he had "escaped from a Navy hospital." And that essentially ended any hope of finding out where I was taken or why. I just don't see. How does this relate to St. Augustine, the Canaries, to Oak Island - all of this? What are we doing here?

A: St. Albans.

Q: And there is more! My God! We aren't happy with Mary Magdalene and St. Augustine, and St. Anthony! Now we also have St. Albans! Of course I know that it is the place where there was a battle and one of the Percy's was killed there. It was also called Verulamian in the Celtic days, and Francis Bacon was Lord Verulam and some suspect that he was the son of Elizabeth I. But, there are only so many hours in the day, guys! I need some help here! I was hoping that I would be getting some help with the research...


I am going to attempt here to link Sir Francis Bacon with St Albans, Oak Island and the Canary Islands.

In my previous post, I mentioned Bacon’s choice of aristocratic title. Well he was born in Gorhambury, St Albans so that would seem to explain why he chose St Albans. However, is there more to the choice of the name ‘Albans’? Well according to Peter Dawkins, something of an expert on Bacon, there is. This is what he has to say on the subject:

The choice of Gorhambury, St Albans, by Sir Nicholas Bacon, as the place to build his family home and ‘mystery school’ country retreat shortly after Francis Bacon was born, was certainly not by chance. Not only is St Albans an important location on the ancient ‘Bran Route’ from Anglesey to London and home of the British martyr, Saint Alban, the founder of Freemasonry in Britain, but also St Albans lies within Ophiuchus, the Dragon Master or Serpent Bearer. Ophiuchus not only relates to Asclepius, the Greek god of medicine, and St George, the Christian Red (or Rosy) Cross Knight, but is known as the 13th Sign of the Zodiac. In the Arthurian myth, this is the 13th Seat of the Round Table, upon which the rightful heir to the throne sits.

I would also point out that Albion is the old British name for Great Britain and the old kingdom of Scotland was called Alban. In addition, Geoffrey of Monmouth in his ‘The History of the Kings of Britain’ mentions that after the Trojan War, Aeneas fled from the ruined city of Troy with his son Ascanius, he ended up in Italy and took over that kingdom (the Etruscans?). He was succeeded by his son Ascanius who Monmouth tells us founded the town of Alba on the banks of the river Tiber. This town would go on, of course, to become Rome. According to Monmouth, Ascanius’s son was Brutus, the first King of Britain (see my post on the giant Gogmagog in the thread for the session 13 March 2021).

Bacon had read Geoffrey on Monmouth and it is interesting that as Shakespeare (if indeed Bacon was the real Shakespeare or spear shaker) he would write a play that concerned Macbeth, a King of Alban and then King Lear a play about one of Brutus’s successors.

I also mentioned in my previous post that I might have an explanation for the C’s reference to ‘Lodestar’ in the session dated Session 14 August 2016:

Q: When I post material on the website, those people who resonate to the material
believe that this refers to them also. I have been of the opinion that Unified Thought
Form being must mean a very large group as represented in this density. I know that we
are dealing with limiting terms. But, is this applied to people who CHOOSE the
Cassiopaean option?

A: Maybe it is best to say it applies to those who recognize the application.

Q: So, if they recognize it, if they know it is them, they are part of it. (A) But, thinking
in nonlinear terms, it’s up to us to work to make this precise. You are asking this question
which implies that the answer exists. But, exactly what the answer is maybe it is not yet
chosen, and it is up to us to make it this way.

A: Lodestar is a clue for you.


Lodestar is a device that William Shakespeare used a lot in his plays. Take just one example from ‘A Midsummer Night's Dream’:

Lodestars: guiding stars
"Your eyes are loadstars, and your tongue's sweet air
More tuneable than lark to shepherd's ear."

—Helena (1.1.184–85)

In many ways you yourself are a lodestar to this Forum in the sense described by Shakespeare. However, assuming that Shakespeare is Bacon, then he used references to stars for numerous other purposes, as I will now demonstrate below.

In the same session with the C’s in which they referred for the first time to Alton Towers, you got involved in an exchange about new stars:

Q: Supposedly, Christian Rosencruetz was initiated by the 'philosophers of Dancar.' I want to know where this blasted place is! Okay, skip it. One of the Rosicrucian manifestos said: 'God has sent messengers and signs in the heavens, namely the new stars in Serpentarius and Cygnus, to show that a great council of the elect is to take place.' What do they mean by a 'great council of the elect?'

A: Pyrenees.

Q: Okay, the purported enclave of the alchemists... Why was it signified by new stars in Serpentarius and Cygnus? What do they represent?

A: Novae.


This theme also continued in this further exchange:

Q: In reading the Celtic legends, I discovered that Cassiopaea was equated with Danu, or Don, as in Tuatha de Danaan, or the court of the goddess Danu. So, in other words, the supreme goddess of the Aryans was Cassiopaea. And, Cassiopaea is found in the zodiacal area of Aries, the 'lamb,' where Cephus the 'rock' and 'king' is also found, as well as Perseus, 'he who breaks' and serpentarius. {Just noticed that the previous question about the supernova in Serpentarius could be a reference to the supernova in Cassiopeia by this grouping method.} The image is of Perseus overcoming the serpent, and the ancient Celtic engravings of the horned god show him gripping two serpents by the throat. I would like to understand the symbology here...

A: You are on the right track


I have already referred to Peter Dawson’s work and I would direct you to his brilliant website Sir Francis Bacon – Philosopher | Francis Bacon Research Trust Gateways to Wisdom, Francis Bacon Research Trust. I don’t think this website existed when you did your original research. I am taking the liberty of attaching two pdfs that he has made available on the site, which only date back to 2017. One is called The British Landscape Zodiac and the other is The Mystery of Oak Island - Part 3: Swan Secrets. I think what is contained in these articles is very revealing and helps to explain the C’s references.

It is worth also looking at Dawson’s webpage on Geocosmology FBRT | Geocosmology: the Hermetic Science and Art of Geomancy and Cosmology which he explains as follows:

The word ‘geocosmology’ was invented as a combination of two words, ‘geomancy’ and ‘cosmology’, and refers to the science and art of geomancy and cosmology and their interrelationship or interface.

“Geomancy literarily means ‘earth divination’ but is, fundamentally, a science of natural energy, form and consciousness in respect of the human being as well as of the planet with its landscape and man-made environment—and, by extension, of nature everywhere.

(Divination is the art of sensing, intuiting, perceiving and being inspired, which, when coupled with the rational faculty, culminates in understanding.)

Cosmology is a science concerning the natural or physical cosmos or universe, and the mind or consciousness behind it. At its highest level it is a science of wisdom and metaphysical truths, including that of the spiritual archetypes and intelligencies (angels) of the universe—in other words, a science of spiritual energy, form and consciousness”.


He goes on to say:

It is becoming increasingly clear that Francis Bacon and others associated with him had a good knowledge of the geocosmological energy pattern or zodiac of Britain—a pattern recognised before them by the Celts, Romans and Normans, all of whom utilised this knowledge. The particular siting of Gorhambury, Bacon’s country estate, within the zodiac of Britain, and the geometric or geocosmological pattern laid out and marked by him across its landscape after he had inherited the estate, bear witness to some of this knowledge.

Also significant in the Bacon-Shakespeare-Rosicrucian mystery are the relative locations of Stratford-upon-Avon and Gorhambury, St Albans, within the landscape zodiac of Britain in respect of the celestial phenomena associated with and leading up to 1604—a 3rd-magnitude nova in Cygnus that was first sighted in 1600, unusual planetary conjunctions during 1603-4 and a 1st-magnitude supernova in Ophiuchus in 1604, the latter of which marked the metaphorical opening of the Rosicrucian tomb of Fra CRC and the start of making public the Rosicrucian work that had hitherto been prepared in secret. The “new stars” in Cygnus and Ophiuchus are especially noted in the symbolic illustration depicting the Invisible College of the Rosicrucian Fraternity in Theophilus Schweighardt’s book, Speculum Sophicum Rhodo-stauroticum, published in 1618.

The choice of Gorhambury, St Albans, by Sir Nicholas Bacon, as the place to build his family home and ‘mystery school’ country retreat shortly after Francis Bacon was born, was certainly not by chance. Not only is St Albans an important location on the ancient ‘Bran Route’ from Anglesey to London and home of the British martyr, Saint Alban, the founder of Freemasonry in Britain, but also St Albans lies within Ophiuchus, the Dragon Master or Serpent Bearer. Ophiuchus not only relates to Asclepius, the Greek god of medicine, and St George, the Christian Red (or Rosy) Cross Knight, but is known as the 13th Sign of the Zodiac. In the Arthurian myth, this is the 13th Seat of the Round Table, upon which the rightful heir to the throne sits.

Then there is the much bigger scale of geocosmology—the planetary scale used by the Rosicrucian fraternity and Francis Bacon in which Britain lies within Cassiopeia, the Heavenly Virgin Queen, and Cygnus is associated with Nova Scotia and the mystery of Oak Island. Using Rosicrucian terms, Bacon refers specifically to "navigation" (a Rosicrucian is a "navigator") and to the use of the "compass". This refers primarily to navigating the world of thought and creating in the human understanding "a holy temple after the model of the world”, but it also refers to the navigation of the world in which the magnetic compass and compass rose is used.


Hence, we now get an explanation for the importance of Cassiopeia to the ancient Britons and in particular the Druids and a reference to the supernovae mentioned by the C’s. Now I am no expert on Rosicrucianism but Dawson does use their teachings, literary works and mythology to explain what lay behind their doctrines. It also sheds light on matters addressed in the plays of Shakespeare. If anything I have touched on here is old hat to you and the Forum then I apologise as I have not read all of your works.

For further reading on the subject, Dawson also makes reference to the Shakespeare-Bacon essays of Matthew Walker. See website here The Shakespeare-Bacon Essays of Mather Walker

Unfortunately, I could only access Part 3 of the Oak Island Mystery paper on the website but it does look very interesting and may appeal especially to those who may have followed your own research and those who have watched the ongoing TV series ‘The Curse of Oak Island’ The Curse of Oak Island - Wikipedia

The article is quite long and rambling but establishes, I believe, a reason why Bacon might have been involved with Oak Island given what the C’s have added about the alchemists alcove in the Pyrenees, which Bacon would almost surely have known about and probably been in contact with, given his high position at court, his seniority in the Rosicrucian Fraternity and his control over England’s spy network. The fact is the article links St. Albans, Oak Island and the Canary Islands together and I have never seen that elsewhere. It would also seem that Deneb is the lodestar here.

At some stage did Bacon organise an expedition to Oak Island? If so, he seems to have kept it off the books as there appears to be no record of it.

BTW The deliberate laying out of towns and cities in accordance with celestial constellations is something which has been seen also in Central and North America. I have watched Ancient Aliens episodes where they demonstrated the Mayans did this and the Native American Indian tribe, the Anasazi, who built Chaco Canyon and other pueblo towns in the state of New Mexico. And then, of course, there is the Giza Plateau. Was this a knowledge inherited from Atlantis I wonder?

I hope to shed some light by means of a further post on that strange statement the C’s made about ‘Spawn of the Dragon’, assuming you have not resolved that cryptic statement already. I also have further insights to share on Bacon and his New Atlantis and on the Hyperboreans.
In my last post I suggested that where the C’s told Ark:

"A: The journal, to start with. One's objectives should be outlined. The scientist usually begins with this for "fine tuning." We see more opportunities coming though. We led you to the garden, and you planted the beanstalk. Now watch it grow, Jack! ",

I thought this might have more than one meaning. I referred to Sir Francis Bacon’s role in establishing the scientific method as a second possible meaning. This is what Wikipedia has to say on the subject:

“His works are seen as developing the scientific method and remained influential through the scientific revolution. Bacon has been called the father of empiricism. He argued for the possibility of scientific knowledge based only upon inductive reasoning and careful observation of events in nature. Most importantly, he argued science could be achieved by use of a sceptical and methodical approach whereby scientists aim to avoid misleading themselves.”

This matches up for me with the C’s statement that “One's objectives should be outlined. The scientist usually begins with this for "fine tuning.”

However, I think there is a third possible meaning to the quote and that is the idea of planting beans or seeds and watching them grow very fast into a giant beanstalk, with the emphasis very much on giant. Hence the C’s statement A: The giant is in the meaning”.

It was Bacon who helped to lay the seeds of the British colonies that would go on to grow into the United States of America in a relatively short space of time. Here again I will support this hypothesis by quoting from Bacon’s Wikipedia entry:

Bacon played a leading role in establishing the British colonies in North America, especially in Virginia, the Carolinas and Newfoundland in northeastern Canada. His government report on "The Virginia Colony" was submitted in 1609. In 1610 Bacon and his associates received a charter from the king to form the Tresurer and the Companye of Adventurers and planter of the Cittye of London and Bristoll for the Collonye or plantacon in Newfoundland, and sent John Guy to found a colony there. Thomas Jefferson, the third President of the United States, wrote: "Bacon, Locke and Newton. I consider them as the three greatest men that have ever lived, without any exception, and as having laid the foundation of those superstructures which have been raised in the Physical and Moral Sciences".

In 1910 Newfoundland issued a postage stamp to commemorate Bacon's role in establishing the colony. The stamp describes Bacon as "the guiding spirit in Colonization Schemes in 1610". Moreover, some scholars believe he was largely responsible for the drafting, in 1609 and 1612, of two charters of government for the Virginia Colony. William Hepworth Dixon considered that Bacon's name could be included in the list of Founders of the United States.

I have deliberately linked this post to my previous post of 22 April in order to draw people’s attention to the two articles by Peter Dawkins so as to link Francis Bacon with St Albans, Oak Island and the Canary Islands through his application of the practice of geomancy. To understand why I think geomancy is the key to understanding all of this and the C’s various quotes, you really need to read these articles. It is all in there, the whole explanation. Obviously, the C’s intended the explanation to come out at this time for a reason, since this material was not available back in 1997/98. The articles only became available in 2017. However, I intend to refer to the articles as we go in order to explain certain remarks made by the C’s in various sessions over the years.

Just to recap here is what the C’s said on 7th June 1997:

Q: Supposedly, Christian Rosencruetz was initiated by the 'philosophers of Dancar.' I want to know where this blasted place is! Okay, skip it. One of the Rosicrucian manifestos said: 'God has sent messengers and signs in the heavens, namely the new stars in Serpentarius and Cygnus, to show that a great council of the elect is to take place.' What do they mean by a 'great council of the elect?'

A: Pyrenees.

Q: Okay, the purported enclave of the alchemists... Why was it signified by new stars in Serpentarius and Cygnus? What do they represent?

A: Novae.


This theme also continued in this further exchange:

Q: In reading the Celtic legends, I discovered that Cassiopaea was equated with Danu, or Don, as in Tuatha de Danaan, or the court of the goddess Danu. So, in other words, the supreme goddess of the Aryans was Cassiopaea. And, Cassiopaea is found in the zodiacal area of Aries, the 'lamb,' where Cephus the 'rock' and 'king' is also found, as well as Perseus, 'he who breaks' and serpentarius. {Just noticed that the previous question about the supernova in Serpentarius could be a reference to the supernova in Cassiopeia by this grouping method.} The image is of Perseus overcoming the serpent, and the ancient Celtic engravings of the horned god show him gripping two serpents by the throat. I would like to understand the symbology here...

A: You are on the right track


Now Laura said to me in her post on 24th April: “What I have thought about is this: The original question that gave back the response about "struggle out of sequence with pre-ordained activities of Royal Blood Lines" was about a supernova

And she is quite right. What was it about the supernovae in Cygnus and Serpentarius that had Bacon and his fellow Rosicrucians suddenly rushing around publishing the Rosicrucian Manifestos and visiting Oak Island? Well the answer is what novae represent. In latin “novae” is the plural of the feminine form of “novus” meaning “new” in English. Supernovae, as we know, are caused by the explosion of old stars. However, the death of one star may lead to the birth of new stars with their attendant planets. Star formation - Wikipedia. It is in effect the Phoenix effect with a new bird arising out of the ashes of the old bird.

So what bird did the Rosicrucians want to resurrect? The answer, I think, is Atlantis or Arcadia. Bacon made it clear in his last work, The New Atlantis, that he wished to see a resurrection of the Golden Age through the creation of a New Atlantis and North America would be its base.

Geomancy is basically the system of superimposing the twelve signs of the Zodiac over a place, country, continent or the whole world. If you refer to Dawkins article on ‘The British Landscape Zodiac’ you will get the idea. He traces the practice back to the Celts and it is evidently based on the Hermetic maxim “As above, so below”. What the Rosicrucians did was to take a celestial globe of the heavens with all the constellations of the Zodiac and superimpose it over a terrestrial globe of the world. But you might say they didn’t have a complete globe of the world in the early 17th century since Antartica and other territories hadn’t yet been discovered and mapped. That is where the Piri Reis Map comes in to play. Piri Reis map - Wikipedia

In a session dated 31 October 1998, the C’s had this to say on the subject:

Q: A pyramid type graph. Okay, anything else about prime numbers? When you said that they were the 'dwellings of the mystics' I had an idea that a prime number could be a dwelling of a mystic because the individual would express in some manner a frequency that related in some way to a prime number. Is that somewhere along the line...? That mystics can traverse all densities because of frequency?

A: Something like that.

Q: My next thought was that it could indicate actual places or locations in space time on the planet that would be represented by coordinates.

A: Zuber
.

Q: What does THAT mean?

A: Research.

Q: Okay. Now. This woman with this book "The Horse of God," talks about the shadow of the horse in the Shepherds of Arcadia painting that is evident if you turn it upside down. I know that I dreamed that the painting was a map. In terms of this map, what would be the zero meridian that one would use to place the map?

A: There need not be a zero meridian.

Q: Is there any one thing... I doused the picture, and it seemed that the head of the kneeling man with the beard was the important figure. Where, on a map, would one place this head in order to have the other figures in correct alignment?

A: Best to split the image, head to head. Vertically.

Q: Split the image and put the same guy head to head to his own head?

A: Close.

Q: Now, when you were saying that I needed to get a better 'handl' on it and I found...

A: Have you overlooked North America? Check Atlas indices for names to pique interest.

Q: What names?

A: Oh now, we cannot tell you that!

Q: The reason I have been focusing on Europe is because you said that this thing we were supposed to find was in the Rhineland...

A: But there are always connections, both hither and yon. Tricky those Rosicrucians, tricky. And what of Piri Reis?


The reason why the C’s said there need not be any zero meridian was because the Rosicrucians were using the celestial map of the globe for their navigation rather than a Mercator map or terrestrial globe as we know it today.

I checked for places called Zuber and came up with one in Florida located at 29°16′01″N 82°10′52″WCoordinates: 29°16′01″N 82°10′52″W. I don’t know how far it is from the house where Laura was living at the time but it is obviously in North America and you will note the C’s stress that “Have you overlooked North America” in the same exchange. Zuber, Florida - Wikipedia

In the Rosicrucian world, North East America is linked with the Zodiac sign of Cygnus the Swan, which is also known as the Northern Cross. In that earlier post, I mentioned that the star Deneb, within the constellation of Cygnus, was in effect the lodestar for navigating us to Oak Island since, according to Dawkins, it is the apex of the Masonic Celestial Compass.

I think this now explains the strange quote the C’s made to Laura in the 12th December 1998 session:

A: Your quest is your own. We do not "steer." We supply the mortar, you are the Masoness.

To steer is to navigate and if you are a Freemason you will use the Masonic Celestial Compass to navigate.

Now Dawkins says in ‘The Mystery of Oak Island’ that:

To project heaven on earth and know what you were navigating to, and what area of the world corresponds to in terms of symbolism (I will return to the subject of symbolism below) associated with the stars, was of key import. And this is where Oak Island and Nova Scotia show up in their importance, as well as helping to explain why Queen Elizabeth I was likened to the Virgin Queen, who in the sky is represented by the constellation of Cassiopeia, the Enthroned Queen (equivalent to Isis, the Egyptian goddess-queen).

A supernova in Cassiopeia appeared dramatically in the sky from 1572 to 1574 and was taken
[by the Rosicrucians] as a sign of the birth of a child to the Virgin Queen, or the appearance of a great light in that part of the world representing the Virgin Queen, Cassiopeia. At that time, the part of the world corresponding to Cassiopeia was the British Isles – England in particular – and an earthly queen always equates in tradition as personifying the land.

The Rosicrucian apologist Michael Maier is alleged to have stated, in a manuscript residing at the University of Leiden (Leipzig), that the Society or Fraternity of the Golden and Rosy Cross had been founded circa 1570 by members of a group whose origins lay in a ‘community founded in 1510 in London by Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa von Nettesheim. The alleged manuscript is now lost (if, indeed, it ever existed) but in support of what it is purported to have said is the fact that Robert Fludd
[a future Royal Society member] wrote, in his Tractis Apoligetica (1617), that the “new star”of 1572 marked the beginning of the Rosicrucian work, which then continued to be prepared in secret until the 1603-04 planetary conjunctions and appearance of the new stars in Cygnus and Ophiuchus [Serpentario], which was a sign to the Fraternity for them to emerge from their period of secrecy, expand their membership and begin the restoration of the world.”

Dawkins article on The Mystery of Oak Island explains how if you make a celestial globe (with the signs of the Zodiac) and lay it over a terrestrial globe, with the terrestrial globe showing underneath, you can locate which country is covered by which constellation of the Zodiac. To do this though you need to align the prime meridian of the celestial globe with the prime meridian of the terrestrial globe, which is represented by the island of El Hierro, the smallest and farthest south and west of the Canary Islands (known in antiquity as ‘The Fortunate Islands’). This had been in use as the longitudinal prime meridian since the time of Ptolemy and would continue right up until the 19th century when the Greenwich Prime Meridian was established in 1851.

The resulting image will show Cygnus, the Swan (AKA the Northern Cross), flying over the East coast of America. Nova Scotia lies beneath the tail of the Swan but the star Deneb is offset from Nova Scotia by approximately 6 degrees. The stars of Cassiopeia cover the British Isles and Lyra (the Lyre) is over the heart of North America.

Dawkins points out though that if Gerardus Mercator’s (1512 – 1594) prime meridian is used instead, then the prime meridian for these purposes will be the island of Fuerteventura in the Canary Islands, then the lodestar Deneb will be positioned over Nova Scotia and close to Oak Island. Note that when Mercator was living in Duisberg, he met and gave a terrestrial globe to Dr. John Dee a fellow Elizabethan courtier with Bacon

You should also note that in response to French colonisation plans in North America, the Virginia Company was set up in 1606 and granted land between latitudes 34˚N and 45˚N by James I for renewed colonisation purposes. This redefined the land and seascape of Virginia as lying north of latitude 34˚N, south of latitude 45˚N and west of longitude 64˚W, with the western border as yet undefined. Two notable factors about this are:

  • The coastal landscape of Virginia corresponds to the main body of Cygnus, the Swan;
  • The 45˚N latitude and 64˚W longitude meet in the Oak Island area of Nova Scotia that corresponds to the star Deneb and this junction forms the north-east corner of Virginia.
The north-east corner is very important in Freemasonry and sacred architecture, as this is where the corner-stone is placed when the temple is dedicated.

The French had made a counterclaim in 1603 on the coastal land between latitudes 40˚N and 46˚N, calling this land La Cadie or Acadie (i.e. Acadia or Arcadia). However, they were only able to make their own territorial claim effective by colonisation over the parts stretching between latitudes 45˚N and 46˚N (now New Brunswick, the northern part of Maine and the northern half of Nova Scotia). Acadia - Wikipedia

So the coastal landscape of Virginia corresponds to the main body of Cygnus the Swan or as Acardia, the Land of the Rosicrucians. As Dawkins states, in Baconian terms, this ‘virginal’ Arcadian land is the earthly part of what could be the beginning of the New Atlantis – the old Atlantis of North America ‘instaurated’ into a new shining ‘golden’ form, blessing itself and the world with a new Golden Age. A New Golden Age to rival the earlier Golden Age of Atlantis.

Arcadia

Allegorically, Acardia is known as the Land of the Rosicrucians – a land inhabited by shepherd-knights and poets, and famous for its harmonious landscapes and oak tree woods in which wild boar rummage for acorns. Sometime around 1618 a famous motto appeared for the first time on a painting created in northern Italy by the Italian Baroque artist Giovanni Francesco Barbieri (Guercino). The motto is ‘Et in Arcadia Ego’ (And in Arcadia I) an elliptical sentence lacking a verb. A slightly later painting by Nicolas Possin, ‘Les bergers d’Arcadie’ (The Arcadian Shepherds, 1637-38) also incorporates the same motto. There has been a lot of discussion about this painting on the Forum and in the Wave series in connection with the mystery of the Priory of Sion and the treasure of Bérenger Saunière.

Hence, both Guercino and Poussin were clearly linking their works with the Rosicrucians and their ideology.

I found a further quote concerning Arcadia in the session of 5th December 1998:

Q: The chief thing I noticed about Arcadia was, the Arcadians were the enemies of the Trojans, they were the creators of the Trojan Horse - a huge deception... and the Celts are supposed to be the descendants of the refugees from Troy. And, when Hitler came along, one of his ideals was to resurrect Arcadia, and that Germany was going to be the new Arcadia and destroy the 'old corrupt civilization,' which was Troy. Troy is 'three' and is connected to 'Ilium,' and I guess what my question is here is: just who's on first?

A: Who is on second?


The reference to who is on second is a reference in baseball terms to who is on second base. Clearly the C’s were indicating that the Arcadians of the siege of Troy story were not the first Arcadians, since the Atlantians were on first base. Alternatively, it could also be a reference to the American settlers in the New World who would, thanks to Francis Bacon and his Rosicrucian colleagues, become the New Atlantians and therefore stand on second base.

The Trent

Dawkins states that Nova Scotia, lying at the latitude of 45˚N, could be seen – and certainly seems to have been seen in esoteric circles – as the gateway to North America or Atlantis, as it was esoterically known. Gateways are important especially when they are the middle path as represented by 45 degrees. He then states that it is noteworthy the 45˚ latitude is specifically associated with a new Atlantis in ‘The Anatomy of Melancholy’ (1621). Francis Bacon may have been the inspirer, co-author or author of this work. Dawkins then quotes a passage from the book referring to the Rosie-Cross Fraternity but then points out that this passage is placed a few lines after an extraordinary and seemingly out of place navigational reference to “old Verulamium”, which as we know from the C’s particularly relates to Francis Bacon, whose family estate at Gorhambury lies in part on the site of the Roman City of Verulamium in what is St Albans today. Bacon’s title was Baron Verulam of Verulam (later Viscount St Albans). The passage in question is:

“B.Atwater of old, or as some will Henry I., made a channel from Trent to Lincoln navigable; which now, saith Mr Camden, is decayed and much mention is made of anchors, and such like monuments found about old Verulamium, good ships have formerly come to Exeter, and many such places, whose channels, havens, ports, are now barred and rejected”.

We have previously considered the meaning of the C’s reference to the “Holder of the Trent” and I wondered if it might be linked to one of the Earls of Shrewsbury. However, I came across another reference to ‘Trent’ in a session dated 12 December 1998:

Q: Now, in reference to your question to me: 'where is Arcadia,' that I need to look at this some more ........

“A: Arcadia is a crossroads for the one Essene, the Aryan one of Trent.”


The reference to Arcadia as a crossroads now appears to refer to the constellation of Cygnus the Swan since it is also known as the Northern Cross and therefore applies under the practice of geomancy to North East America and perhaps Nova Scotia (New Scotland) in particular, which takes its name from the legendary ‘Scotia’, who was either the daughter of an Egyptian pharaoh contemporary with Moses or the daughter of King Zedekiah, the last King of Judah but what of the rest of the quote?

Then I thought of something Outsky posted in this thread about ‘Trent’ being perhaps a contraction of ‘tros’.

However, say if ‘Trent’ is actually a contraction of the word Trident? Why is this relevant? Well Poseidon (Neptune to the Romans) was the Greek god of the sea, storms, earthquakes and horses and according to legend and myth, the founder of the fabled island kingdom of Atlantis. Poseidon - Wikipedia. He is also famous for wielding or holding a trident.

He also had the cult title "earth shaker". In the myths of isolated Arcadia he is related with Demeter and Persephone . In Plato’s Timaeus and Critias, the legendary island of Atlantis was Poseidon's domain. In Homer's Iliad, Poseidon supports the Greeks against the Trojans during the Trojan War and in the Odyssey, during the sea-voyage from Troy back home to Ithaca, the Greek hero Odysseus provokes Poseidon's fury by blinding his son, the Cyclops Polyphemus, resulting in Poseidon punishing him with storms, the complete loss of his ship and companions, and a ten-year delay. It seems that the Arcadian myth is related with the first Greek speaking people who entered the region during the Bronze Age. We have been speculating whether these were northern European Celts.

Note that Arcadia is also one of the regions described in the "Catalogue of Ships" in the Iliad. Agamemnon himself gave Arcadia the ships for the Trojan war because Arcadia did not have a navy.

If Poseidon was the god and guardian of Atlantis, which figure is intended to be the protector of the New Atlantis? Here symbolism steps in again for there is one famous figure in British history that is renowned for carrying a trident and that is Britannia, whose navy was destined to rule the seas for several hundred years.

Britannia - Wikipedia

Britannia (/brɪˈtæniə/) is the national personification of Britain as a helmeted female warrior holding a trident and shield. An image first used in classical antiquity, the Latin Britannia was the name variously applied to the British Isles, Great Britain and the Roman province of Britain during the Roman Empire. Typically depicted reclining or seated with spear and shield since appearing as such on Roman coins of the 2nd century AD, the classical national allegory was revived in the early modern period (from circa 1400-1800).

It was during the reign of Elizabeth I that "Britannia" again came to be used as a personification of Britain. In his 1576 "General and rare memorials pertayning to the Perfect Arte of Navigation", John Dee used a frontispiece figure of Britannia kneeling by the shore beseeching Elizabeth I, to protect her empire by strengthening her navy. This is also very much the period of Francis Bacon who was present at queen Elizabeth’s court as her legal counsel.

Could Britannia really have been a mask for Cassiopeia, who the Rosicrucians viewed as the celestial personification of Britain by virtue of their practice of geomancy?

If so, the British Rosicrucians obviously intended Cassiopeia, in the form of Britannia, to be the figurehead of the New Atlantis.

Conclusion

I am not pretending that I have solved all the clues the C’s have given on this particular subject but I hope I have made enough connections to join at least some of the dots. In particular, my research has not addressed all the bloodline issues but then the quote “A: Arcadia is a crossroads for the one Essene, the Aryan one of Trent.” may possibly open up new lines of enquiry. So many of the C’s clues have double, if not triple, meanings, there may still be rich pickings awaiting discovery.
 

Attachments

  • The Mystery of Oak Island Pt-3 Swan Secrets.pdf
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  • The British Landscape Zodiac.pdf
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MJF

Dagobah Resident
I think I
I have been reading the session dated 31 October 1998 and found I think a number of clues relating to the Rosicrucians and one possibly to the 'Philosophers of Dancar'. I will set out the relevant references first:

Q: The reason I have been focusing on Europe is because you said that this thing we were supposed to find was in the Rhineland...

A: But there are always connections, both hither and yon. Tricky those Rosicrucians, tricky. And what of Piri Reis?

***************************************


A: The journal, to start with. One's objectives should be outlined. The scientist usually begins with this for "fine tuning." We see more opportunities coming though. We led you to the garden, and you planted the beanstalk. Now watch it grow, Jack!

Q: (L) That doesn't mean there is going to be a giant going around saying "fee, fie, foe, fum," does it?


A: The giant is in the meaning.

Q: You mean we gotta kill a giant?

A: No.

Q: (A) I also wanted to ask if I should be more active and ask more questions in future sessions, or to ask less questions and work more on my own?

A: Questions open the doors, Arkadiusz.

A: Well, what of the fable?

Q: (L) Well, Jack got these beans and planted them and they grew. He climbed the beanstalk and figured out how to transform or kill the giant, and got the treasure, and ran away and chopped the beanstalk down so the giant couldn't get him. (F) I remember that he used the beanstalk to get to the same level with the giant. (L) Well, which does it mean? Does he use the beanstalk to rise to the level of the giant, get the treasure and live there, or does he run away with the treasure and chop down the beanstalk?

A: Take your pick.


Q: (L) Well, the essence of the story is that Jack was successful. He planted these magic beans and they REALLY grew, like OVERNIGHT! He woke up the next day and the beanstalk reached all the way to the clouds - that is how fast it was. I guess that what you have been doing in this job is planting magic beans that are gonna take off and grow like crazy and be a ladder you can climb to some giant success! If I remember correctly, there was a harp involved. (A) I want to ask if these sessions we are having are affecting Frank's health in a negative way?

*****************************************

Q: I would like for you to give me a super-duper, hunky-dory, knock-me-off-my-socks clue to my treasure hunt.

A: Chevin.


I will come back to the references to Jack and the Beanstalk later and some of the other statements. Belive me, there is an absolute treasure trove in this session, much of which I think relates to the Rosicrucians. Note how the C's say "Tricky those Rosicrucians, tricky". This implies how clever they are in concealing things. I will show how this applies to the Shepherds of Arcadia painting and why the C's should mention "Have you overlooked North America" in the same session in a follow up post.

For now, I wish to focus on the clue they gave of "Chevin". If anyon ehas already pursued this and I am just repeating what they found, I apologise in advance. Whare is Chevin? Well when I researched it, it took me to Yorkshire and specifically near the area where Doncaster is located.​

The Chevin is the name given to the ridge on the south side of Wharfedale in Leeds, West Yorkshire, England, overlooking the market town of Otley, and often known as Otley Chevin.

The origins of the name Chevin are uncertain; the earliest attestation is in an eleventh-century copy of a charter from 972 which gives the spelling scefinc, while a charter of around 1030 gives the form on Scefinge. The most probable origin, according to a range of authorities, is a Brittonic word whose modern Welsh descendant is cefn ("back", "ridge", "ridge of high land"). This word appears in other hill-names, such as Cefn Cribwr and Cefn Bryn in Glamorgan amongst many others in Wales, and also, it has been argued, The Cheviot in Northumberland, and the Cévennes in France.

The Chevin is largely covered in attractive old woodland and heathland. It is a part of the Carboniferous Millstone Grit group. A Roman road ran along the top of the Chevin, part of the road that linked Eboracum (York), Calcaria (Tadcaster) and Olicana (Ilkley), perhaps on the same route as the modern road, Yorkgate, or perhaps about 800 metres to the south.

The highest point of the Chevin is often thought to be Surprise View, however it is in fact Beacon Hill next to Yorkgate quarry which reaches 283 metres (928 ft) at grid reference SE199441[4] and used to be the site of a trig point. Surprise View is the more visited summit of the Chevin and offers extensive views of Otley and Wharfedale, and has an adjacent car park. It is the site of a cross erected every Easter since 1969.[5]

Parts of the Chevin, known as the Danefield Estate, belonged to landowner Walter Fawkes and his descendants. After World War II these areas were donated to Otley Urban District Council as a memorial to those from the Wharfe Valley who had lost their lives during the war.[6

The Roman Map of Britain above shows a sector of Ermine Street for which there was an alternative route. As Ermine Street extended north out of Lincoln and past Scampton an alternative course of Ermine Street curved left and formed a semicircle on a wide heading west of the Humber Estuary. The straight northerly route, traced in red on the map, between Lincoln and York was the shorter, but was not passable over the Humber Estuary during adverse weather conditions. Thus an alternative route was established (see also Roman roads in Britain). This 'alternative' route is detailed in the Antonine Itinerary and linked York (Eboracum), Castleford (Lagecium), Doncaster (Danum), Littleborough (Agelocum) and Lincoln (Lindum). Beginning at the modern Lincolnshire Showground the portion of this route in Lincolnshire is known as Till Bridge Lane, the modern A1500.[6] The route in the Doncaster area, and again north of Castleford, is known as the Roman Ridge or Roman Rigg.

The Roman Ridge is that part of the Roman road of Ermine Street located in the Doncaster area of South Yorkshire, England. Although in places, Ermine Street follows the modern Great North Road (now numbered the A638), there is a stretch between Sunnyfields and Red House which is known as the Roman Ridge.

The Roman Ridge is colloquially known as the Roman Rigg, or ridge.

Now I am not saying this is definitive proof but if Dancar is Doncaster in Yorkshire and is the place where the Philosophers (Rosicrucian) met, then this is possibly corroboration. The C's say the Rosicrucians are tricky but they appear to be even trickier!

I have not been able to determine where in Doncaster they may have met. In the 17th century Doncaster was not a particularly large town but it would feature in the English Civil War in the middle of the century. Gilbert Talbot, the 7th Earl of Shrewsbury owned considerable parcels of land in Yorkshire where the City of Sheffield (not far from Doncaster) was their main base. His marriage to Mary Cavendish, the daughter of Bess of Hardwick (one of the richest widows in England), would have brought even more Yorkshire properties into his property portfolio, including perhaps one in Doncaster. Doncaster was a fairly off the beaten track sort of place to host a secret meeting of Rosicrucians who didn't want to draw attention to themselves. Such a meeting in London or York might have been far more visible.

The second point I would like to draw out is the C's remarks seemingly directed to Ark:

"A: The journal, to start with. One's objectives should be outlined. The scientist usually begins with this for "fine tuning." We see more opportunities coming though. We led you to the garden, and you planted the beanstalk. Now watch it grow, Jack! "

On the surface this seems to imply that they have given Ark the clues, or seeds, now let them germinate like Jack's beans into a large beanstalk, i.e., the Unified Field Theory. However, I also think it is a reference to Sir Francis Bacon since, along with Roger Bacon, he is viewed as the father of the scientific method and empiricism, although many prefer to link this with Sir Isaac Newton one of his successors and a President of The Royal Society. Indeed, The Royal Society was in essence Bacon's brainchild. If you view Bacon's scientific methodology and the creation of The Royal Society as the start of the Age of Science and Invention, then you can see how Bacon had planted the beans/seeds leading to this. Hence, Francis Bacon could be said to be one of the true giants of science.
I think I have now been able to determine who some of the philosophers of Dancar were and where they may have met. I wanted to find connections with anyone who worked with or knew either Francis Bacon and/or John Dee, lived in the Doncaster area and who shared interests in common with either or both of these men.

I would first post a description I found of John Dee, which describes him as an occultist, mathematician, astrologer, astronomer, alchemist, historian, theologian, philosopher, cryptographer, expert in the field of navigation and an all-round clever chap. He was a kind of Merlin to Elizabeth I, although not as cuddly. He is credited with having planted the seed of a “British Empire” into the agenda.

I think I may have found the connection in a gentleman called John Field from a small village near Leeds called East Ardsley in Yorkshire. John Field (proto-Copernican) - Wikipedia

Note that John Field or Feild (1520/1530–1587), was a "proto-Copernican" English astronomer an interest that John Dee shared. His Wikipedia entry says of him that he was living in London at the date of his first Ephemeris (1556), and appears, from a remark in a manuscript in Lambeth Palace Library, to have been a public instructor in science. His scientific works were the first in England in which the principles of the Copernican philosophy were recognised and asserted. In about 1560 he married Jane (d. 1609), daughter of John Amyas, a Kentish gentleman, and some time between that date and 1577, settled down at Ardsley, where he continued till his death, his position being that of a gentleman held in esteem among the better class of his neighbours.

East Ardsley, which is just south of the City of Leeds is only 28 miles from Doncaster and you have to journey along the highway called today the A1 (the Great North Road), which in Roman times was known as Ermine Street, in order to get to Doncaster.

1619533722601.png

Now in my earlier post I mentioned that "The Chevin" is the name given to the ridge on the south side of Wharfedale in Leeds, West Yorkshire, England. Hence, Field would have to travel along the Chevin to reach Doncaster.

I am also attaching a link to an interesting article on John Field, which shows you how close the connection between himself and Dee was and the standing of this man as an astronomer.

The article states that what makes Field intriguing is that he was the first person in England, so far as is known, to publish an astronomical almanac based on the assumptions of Copernicus: Ephemeris Anni 1557, Currentis Iuxta Copernici et Reinhaldi Canones Supputata.

It goes on to state that Field prepared the Ephemeris at the suggestion of John Dee, who had become acquainted with Copernican ideas during his travels on the continent. Dee, however, left no published evidence that he accepted the literal truth of these ideas. Like many scholars of their time, Dee and Field were interested in planetary positions for astrological purposes. Indeed, it may have been the dabbling with horoscopes that got them into trouble with the authorities, for on 1st June 1555 John Dee and Field were committed into custody and on 5th June the Privy Council authorised their examination "uppon suche poyntes as by thier wisdomes they shall gather out of thier former confessions towching thire lewde and vayne practises of calculing and conjuring". It was alleged, moreover, that witchcraft had been used to wreak revenge on two of the children of their chief accuser: immediately upon the accusation - one child had been struck dead and the other rendered blind! The chief offence that Dee and Field had committed was that they had drawn up horoscopes (or 'nativities') for Queen Mary, her husband Philip II of Spain, and Princess Elizabeth. (subsequently Elizabeth I). Given that these three monarchs were amongst the most powerful people in the 16th century world, it shows that Field mixed in very high circles at least for a time.

The article then states that the modern expert of Copernicanism, Robert Westman confessed (in 1980) that "between 1543 and 1600, I can find no more than ten thinkers who choose to adopt the main claims of the heliocentric theory". These were "Thomas Digges and Thomas Hariot in England; Giordano Bruno and Galileo Galilei in Italy; Diego de Zuñiga in Spain; Simon Stevin in the Low Countries; and, in Germany, the largest group - Georg Joachim Rheticus, Michael Maestlin, Christopher Rothmann, and Johannes Kepler". Field, however, is not on this list and his view that Copernican writings are based on "true, sure, clear proof" remains ambiguous. Perhaps John Dee should be added to that list as well?

So where in Doncaster may have the Philosophers of Doncar (Rosicrucians) have met. I have narrowed it down to Hatfield Manor House in the village of Hatfield near Doncaster.

History: traditionally regarded as on the site of King Edwin of Northumbria's palace. Hatfield was granted to the Warenne family c1070 and the house must have been built during their ownership prior to temporary seizure of the Warenne estates by Thomas of Lancaster in 1317. In 1336 Edward III's son, William of Hatfield was born here (he died in infancy and is buried in York Minster). The house reverted to the Crown in 1347 and, as a hunting lodge, its visitors included Edward Balliol (ex-King of Scotland); Elizabeth, Countess of Ulster, probably in the company of John of Gaunt and Geoffrey Chaucer (then a page). Thought to have seen visits by the Black prince in 1360 and Edmund Langley, Earl of Cambridge and Duke of York in 1381. Used by the Duke of Narfoll: in 1536 during negotiations over the Rising of the North and referred to by John Leland c1540 who noted that 'the log or manor place is but meanly builded of tymbar'. In 1628 granted by the Crown to Sir Cornelius Vermuyden, drainer of the lands around Hatfield; sold by him in 1630 to Sir Arthur Ingran in whose family it remained for several generations.​

As you can see from the above, this house has had a notable history, being connected with several important personages in English history.

I cannot yet prove definitively whether this was the meeting place of the Philospohers of Doncar but it look like a good candidate. I am currently investigating a possible link between Field and Francis Bacon and I am also researching into Thomas Digges, someone whose name has come up in connection with Sir Walter Raleigh, a man who helped to establish England's original presence in North America.
 

OutSky

Jedi
I just made bold other interesting parts to some particular citations. Hope this also helps some unusual visualization and with that to do a gradual passage from one link to another, like a way for crossing the roads of knowledge. :-)

The origins of the name Chevin are uncertain; the earliest attestation is in an eleventh-century copy of a charter from 972 which gives the spelling scefinc, while a charter of around 1030 gives the form on Scefinge. The most probable origin, according to a range of authorities, is a Brittonic word whose modern Welsh descendant is cefn ("back", "ridge", "ridge of high land"). This word appears in other hill-names.........​

And is fascinating the way like the C’s linked Arcadia to Trent.
December 12, 1998 session

Q: Now, in reference to your question to me: ‘where is Arcadia,’ that I need to look at this some more ........

A: Arcadia is a crossroads for the one Essene, the Aryan one of Trent.

Q: Can you clarify that for me?

A: We can, but shall not.

Still, there are more roads,
July 10, 1999 session

A: Be careful of the quotemarks, they bring you to the crossroads. As in: “you take the high road, I’ll take the low road, and I’ll be in Scotland before ye.”
………
A: Look folks, we cannot just spill the secrets of all existence all over this board, but we sure can open the doorways, yeah.​

Moreover, “Chevin” is also a name used to a common fresh-water fish found in the River Wharfe —(Old Norse) meaning “to turn”— that borders the “Chevin ridge” in Britain. Finally, “fish” is curiously one of the symbols of the Christianism so estimated in the last written Arthurian tales.​
April 19, 1997 session

Q: ……How can I find if there is going to be a connection between the Aryan/Jewish bloodline of Jesus and the Merovingian/Plantagenet bloodline? Does it exist?​

A: Only to the extent of the shared origins of the essenes and the celts.
 
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irjO

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
'Golden Age', which did not mean Ancient Greece, as most scholars today think, but really was an ancestral, buried memory of Atlantis.

From what I understand there were different Golden ages at different times in history (the repeated loop), how did you come to the conclusion regarding that to Atlantis?
 

MJF

Dagobah Resident
From what I understand there were different Golden ages at different times in history (the repeated loop), how did you come to the conclusion regarding that to Atlantis?
Because the Rosicrucians bought into Plato's myth of Atlantis, which included artists like Poussin. I agree that most scholars view the Greek age of Alexander and the great Greek philosophers as the classic Golden Age (hence the paintings of ancient Greek landscapes showing a pastoral idyll etc.) but Bacon, Dee and co looked further west and further back in time. They knew something. We know from the C's that Atlantis had a very advanced civilisation far surpassing our own. Hence, Dee, Bacon & co were seeking to establish a new Atlantis in America, a new Arcadia in what was then viewed as virgin land. There was good reason why they named the first colony Virginia.

FYI: English historians view the Elizabethan age as a Golden Age for England so I understand the point you make.
 

MJF

Dagobah Resident
The Chevin" is the name given to the ridge on the south side of Wharfedale in LeedsI just made bold other interesting parts to some particular citations. Hope this also helps some unusual visualization and with that to do a gradual passage from one link to another, like a way for crossing the roads of knowledge. :-)



And is fascinating the way like the C’s linked Arcadia to Trent.


Still, there are more roads,


Moreover, “Chevin” is also a name used to a common fresh-water fish found in the River Wharfe —(Old Norse) meaning “to turn”— that borders the “Chevin ridge” in Britain. Finally, “fish” is curiously one of the symbols of the Christianism so estimated in the last written Arthurian tales.​
I agree with you. Reading the C's clues are like looking at a cryptic crossword. FYI there is a town called Wharfedale that is very close to Leeds and therefore close to East Ardsley where Field lived. As noted previously "The Chevin" is the name given to the ridge on the south side of Wharfedale in Leeds.

I am glad to see that you linked the two quotes about the Essenes together. The Celts were, of course, Aryans. Hence, the quote
"A: Arcadia is a crossroads for the one Essene, the Aryan one of Trent." may relate to Jesus Christ, who in the Gospels dies on a cross and was an Aryan who had red hair as a child. Supposedly Abraham (Prince Paris of the British Trojans) the father of the Israelites was a red head too. As Laura said, this may ultimately all be about bloodlines.

I also think this point links with the statement the C's made in February 2009:

"A: Northern peoples were responsible for civilising the Meditteranean/Adriatic peoples with the encoded secrets contained within their superior extra-terrestrially based genetic arrangement."

This also ties in with statements they made about Abraham's wife Sarah (Helen/Nefertiti) having a genetic tweak in her DNA make up.

Check it out and tell me what you think.
 

MJF

Dagobah Resident
I think I may have found a third member of the Philosophers of Dancar in Thomas Digges who was a protege of John Dee.

Thomas Digges (/dɪɡz/; c. 1546 – 24 August 1595) was an English mathematician and astronomer. He was the first to expound the Copernican system in English but discarded the notion of a fixed shell of immoveable stars to postulate infinitely many stars at varying distances. He was also first to postulate the "dark night sky paradox".

You should note that Digges attempted to determine the parallax of the 1572 supernova observed by Tycho Brahe, and concluded it had to be beyond the orbit of the Moon. This contradicted Aristotle's view of the universe, according to which no change could take place among the fixed stars.

After the death of his father, Digges grew up under the guardianship of John Dee, a typical Renaissance natural philosopher.

I also dug this information out about him in a book about a mutual friend of his Adrian Gilbert:

"Thomas Digges was an innovative thinker whose theological views, although markedly Protestant, were not so radical as to discard entirely the traditional view of Heaven and its contents. But they paved the way to further movement in the direction of modern scientific views. In 1576 he had published a new edition of the book by his father Leonard Digges, who was a close friend of John Dee and author of a treatise on practical mathematics first published in 1553 and later edited by the son. He devised the earliest theodolite and was credited with the construction of a telescope, some 40 years before Galileo as well as putting ideas into practice by voyaging and working with seamen.

In 1573 Digges, then in his early twenties, published his own work on mathematics and he was spoken of as the equal of Dee and Hariot. In 1576 when he published a new edition of his father’s work and added to it “A Perfit Description” of the Celestial Orbs, based partly upon the new ideas of Copernicus, he dedicating it to the eal of Lincoln, the Lord High Admiral. His novel work, although rooted in medieval beliefs, did in fact help to open the way to bolder speculation of the sort indulged in by Giordano Bruno, Kepler and others. When Galileo added the weight of his observations, the image of the older, closed, universe was doomed. To be in close contact with men such as Digges clearly inclined Adrian and others of the Ralegh circle to pursue more wide-ranging and perhaps heretical ideas."


 

OutSky

Jedi
Just for the record, is always good in some moment to glance, learn and admire the efforts engaged into threads like this one. :-)

I agree with you. Reading the C's clues are like looking at a cryptic crossword. FYI there is a town called Wharfedale that is very close to Leeds and therefore close to East Ardsley where Field lived. As noted previously "The Chevin" is the name given to the ridge on the south side of Wharfedale in Leeds.

I am glad to see that you linked the two quotes about the Essenes together. The Celts were, of course, Aryans. Hence, the quote
"A: Arcadia is a crossroads for the one Essene, the Aryan one of Trent." may relate to Jesus Christ, who in the Gospels dies on a cross and was an Aryan who had red hair as a child. Supposedly Abraham (Prince Paris of the British Trojans) the father of the Israelites was a red head too. As Laura said, this may ultimately all be about bloodlines.

I also think this point links with the statement the C's made in February 2009:

"A: Northern peoples were responsible for civilising the Meditteranean/Adriatic peoples with the encoded secrets contained within their superior extra-terrestrially based genetic arrangement."

This also ties in with statements they made about Abraham's wife Sarah (Helen/Nefertiti) having a genetic tweak in her DNA make up.

Check it out and tell me what you think.

Well, that is an extensive issue and sorrowfully I don’t have much time, but I’ll try some gladly. As we know for sure a part of mankind is a derivation from an extraterrestrial genetic pool, such as those that came from Kantek. Indeed the C’s made a specific point on that and also regarding Abraham:​
May 21, 1997 session

Q: Was Abraham a Kantekkian? Was the story of Abraham the story of the Kantekkians being brought to Earth?

A: No.

Q: Was Abraham a Kantekkian or a derivation?

A: Latter. But, so are you.
……….

November 4, 1994 session

Q: (L) I heard one theory that the Lizzies originally evolved on planet earth, is this true?

A: No. Neither did you.

Q: (L) Do you mean us in the sense of the early human prototypes?

A: All prototypes.

Q: (L) When these prototypes were evolved on another planet, did they have souls at that time?

A: Were added.​


Now, not quoted at this time but can be seen in the transcripts that Abraham is equated to the Moses personage, and Abraham was stated a Levite like was told of Moses, who peculiarly is associated with pacifism and warmongering at the same time. Besides —adding to that said in the 1st paragraph of my previous post— my personal strategy is to study first in separate the personages Abraham and Paris. For example C’s tell us:​
February 2, 2003 session

A: And who was "Kore?"

Q: (L) Was this Abraham's daughter?

A: It was the last living member of the Perseid family.

Q: (L) Was it a male or female?

A: Female.

Q: (L) And how did Abraham come to be in possession of this female?

A: Search the text and you will see.

Q: (Galahad) If this person was the last member of the Perseid family, does that mean that Paris was a member of this family?

A: No.

Q: (L) Was this person someone who was part of Abraham's group because he kidnapped her?

A: That is going in the right direction, though not quite that simple.
 

MJF

Dagobah Resident
Just for the record, is always good in some moment to glance, learn and admire the efforts engaged into threads like this one. :-)



Well, that is an extensive issue and sorrowfully I don’t have much time, but I’ll try some gladly. As we know for sure a part of mankind is a derivation from an extraterrestrial genetic pool, such as those that came from Kantek. Indeed the C’s made a specific point on that and also regarding Abraham:



Now, not quoted at this time but can be seen in the transcripts that Abraham is equated to the Moses personage, and Abraham was stated a Levite like was told of Moses, who peculiarly is associated with pacifism and warmongering at the same time. Besides —adding to that said in the 1st paragraph of my previous post— my personal strategy is to study first in separate the personages Abraham and Paris. For example C’s tell us:​
I think Abraham's bloodline could be one of the keys here. I will look into the character of Kore and see what comes of that.

In the meantime, you mentioned this quote in an earlier post:

A: Be careful of the quotemarks, they bring you to the crossroads. As in: “you take the high road, I’ll take the low road, and I’ll be in Scotland before ye.”
………
A: Look folks, we cannot just spill the secrets of all existence all over this board, but we sure can open the doorways, yeah.


I could not find it in the 10 July 1999 thread so it must be from another session. However, its is a very interesting statement. First, I seem to recall from memory that it was in response to a question about the link between the Finnish people and the Hungarians, who it appears came originally from the same tribe or ethnic group but migrated in different directions when they reached Europe. However, the words in quotations are from a famous Scottish ballad 'The Bonnie Banks o' Loch Lomond'. The Bonnie Banks o' Loch Lomond - Wikipedia

I will check the context later but what does occur to me, which is relevant to this thread, is that Scotland was occupied by two different sets of Celts at different times. Northern Scotland was originally occupied by the Picts in Roman times and the Romans referred to the other people in lowland Scotland as the Caledonians. Subsequently, as the Romans pulled out groups of Brythonic Celts moved in and Scotland became known as 'Alba'. However, further groups of Celts migrated from Ireland and settled firstly in the East of Scotland. Celtic Britons - Wikipedia These people were Gaels or Goidelic Celts. One group particularly were called the Scotti whose famous queen was Scotia from whom Scotland and Nova Scotia in Canada supposedly derive their names. I have previously raised the question whether Scotia was the daughter of Hezekiah, the last King of Judah. The popular theory though is that the Scotti were part of a Milesian Celtic group who came to Ireland via Spain. Hence, as you can see, the Brythonic Celts took the low road and got to Scotland first whereas the Goidelic Celts took the high road and arrived there later. Whether this was a secondary meaning to the C's quote I can't be sure but it is interesting they should quote that old song. Sadly, nobody sings it anymore but I do remember singing it as a child at school in the early 1960's.

People tend to think that English is the only language spoken in Great Britain but the Welsh still have their own language, as do the Cornish and people still speak Gaelic in the Western Isles of Scotland as a first language. These are official languages and they all have their own TV and Radio stations broadcasting in their respective tongues. I have an Irish aunt who speaks fluent Irish (Gaelic) and we once watched a documentary together featuring Scots from the Western Isles speaking in their native dialect. She told me that she could understand every word the Scots were speaking. Hence, this proves the Gaelic connection is still very strong. Welsh and Cornish are by comparison very different languages and represent the vestiges of the original Brythonic languages spoken in Britain.​
 

MJF

Dagobah Resident
Whilst looking at the 10th July 1999 session, I providentially came upon this exchange which could be relevant to the bloodline issue:

Q: (A) So, we are 3rd density bioengineered beings. (L) That leads to another question: there is a lot of talk about the Merovingian bloodlines, or the 'Nordic Covenant' bloodlines, or whatever label is put on it, being a 'fresher' version of the reptilian genetic strain. This is represented in the myths of the god Oannes of Sumerian fame, or the Quinotaur who impregnated the mother of Merovee while she was bathing in the sea, and even the wife of the founder of the Angevins, Melusine, variously described as an aquatic fairy or a mermaid. So, there is this claim that there is a stronger and more virile reptilian strain in these bloodlines. Is that correct?

A: It may be.

Q: (L) Well, is that significant in any way?

A: For those obsessed with materialism.
 

OutSky

Jedi
In the meantime, you mentioned this quote in an earlier post:

A: Be careful of the quotemarks, they bring you to the crossroads. As in: “you take the high road, I’ll take the low road, and I’ll be in Scotland before ye.”
………
A: Look folks, we cannot just spill the secrets of all existence all over this board, but we sure can open the doorways, yeah.


I could not find it in the 10 July 1999 thread so it must be from another session. However, its is a very interesting statement. .........​
Nope. It is indeed the “10 July 1999” session, except I copied from old annotations —or maybe from another reality ;-). Sorry anyway. I suggest to inspect it again but for this present look for next formation instead: “Be careful of the quote marks, they bring you to the crossroads. I’m sure now will be easier to find out the Cassiopaeans’ golden and transcendental lay.​

By the way, interesting the reply on “the roads to Scotland.”
 
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