Alton Towers, Sir Francis Bacon and the Rosicrucians

MJF

Dagobah Resident
A: Airports are used by both.

Since airports are a means of travelling to destinations and, therefore, lines of communication, this could also mean that the communications received by the likes of John Dee can be both STO and STS in nature, which the C's confirmed in his case.
 

moyal

Jedi
For a deeper view of things, you may wish to read:
... Frances Yates.
I have read The Occult Philosophy in the Elizabethan Age by Frances Yates some months ago.
It gives a good overview of the main 'protagonists' and 'development of ideas ' in Christian Cabala.
The main thing about Dee, that stuck with me, is that he was a follower of Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa von Nettesheim and his "De Occulta Philosophia libri III" (Three Books of Occult Philosophy).

Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa - Wikipedia

The best is this:
...Agrippa's academic career began in 1509, receiving the patronage Margaret of Austria, governor of Franche-Comté, and Antoine de Vergy, archbishop of Besançon and chancellor of the University of Dole. He was given the opportunity to lecture a course at the University on Hebrew scholar Johann Reuchlin's De verbo mirifico. At Dôle, Agrippa wrote De nobilitate et praecellentia foeminae sexus (On the Nobility and Excellence of the Feminine Sex), a work that aimed at proving the superiority of women using cabalistic ideas. The book was probably intended to impress Margaret. Agrippa’s lectures received attention, and he was given a doctorate in theology because of them. He was, however, denounced by the Franciscan prior Jean Catilinet as a "Judaizing heretic", and was forced to leave Dôle in 1510.
 
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Laura

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I have read The Occult Philosophy in the Elizabethan Age by Frances Yates some months ago.
It gives a good overview of the main 'protagonists' and 'development of ideas ' in Christian Cabala.
The main thing about Dee, that stuck with me, is that he was a follower of Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa von Nettesheim and his "De Occulta Philosophia libri III" (Three Books of Occult Philosophy).

Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa - Wikipedia

The best is this:

The reason I suggest "Philosophy Before the Greeks" is this: much, if not most or all of so-called "Magic/Magick" is derived from religious impulses informed by Judaism/Christianity. It is SUPER important to understand, at the most basic level, the origins of both religions. You simply can't evaluate things without this understanding. And in order to get this understanding in the deepest sense, certain studies are absolutely necessary. For Christianity, you can read my almost-released book, "From Paul to Mark." But in order to get to Paul, you must deeply grok Judaism. The only way to do that is to read hundreds or thousands of studies OR just a few that I have identified as the crucial ones. Even that few will amount to a dozen volumes or so.

Once you grok Judaism, you then have to move back even further to ideas fermented in the mix of Persian and Babylonian cultures which came out as Apocalypticism as exemplified in The Books of Enoch. From there, you have to bifurcate to study both Zoroastrianism and Babylonian "science" and divination. You will find that it appears that Zoroastrianism goes even further back in time than Babylonian ideas. But, it is in Babylon that you will find the impulse to "Magic/Magick".

Then, of course, there is Witzel's work on the origins of ancient myths...
 

MJF

Dagobah Resident
The reason I suggest "Philosophy Before the Greeks" is this: much, if not most or all of so-called "Magic/Magick" is derived from religious impulses informed by Judaism/Christianity. It is SUPER important to understand, at the most basic level, the origins of both religions. You simply can't evaluate things without this understanding. And in order to get this understanding in the deepest sense, certain studies are absolutely necessary. For Christianity, you can read my almost-released book, "From Paul to Mark." But in order to get to Paul, you must deeply grok Judaism. The only way to do that is to read hundreds or thousands of studies OR just a few that I have identified as the crucial ones. Even that few will amount to a dozen volumes or so.

Once you grok Judaism, you then have to move back even further to ideas fermented in the mix of Persian and Babylonian cultures which came out as Apocalypticism as exemplified in The Books of Enoch. From there, you have to bifurcate to study both Zoroastrianism and Babylonian "science" and divination. You will find that it appears that Zoroastrianism goes even further back in time than Babylonian ideas. But, it is in Babylon that you will find the impulse to "Magic/Magick".

Then, of course, there is Witzel's work on the origins of ancient myths...
Perhaps you can help me out here Laura as I am a bit confused. I have been re-reading the C's transcripts from the late 1990's. If judaism originally grew out of Abraham, the father of the jewish race, then the C's had implied that he was really Paris of Troy and that Troy was in fact a city in what is now Cambridge in England and not Asia Minor. This would make Abraham a Celt or ancient Briton. If so, his background would be that of the religion and philosophy of the Druids, who were the priests/philosophers of the Celts and, given Stonehenge's great age, this would pre-date Babylon by a long way. That has been the basis for my research into what the C's were trying to convey in these particular transcripts, they even mentioned Stonehenge (see extract below). Have I got this all wrong then?

Please note that although I have read your original book 'Secret History of the World' I have not read your later books. If you covered these points off in those later works, then I am sorry but I have missed this.
Session 12 July 1997:

A: Genus is family tree.

Q: And what family is it a family tree for?

A: Check your Magna for lesson.

Q: My magna? What in the world? Okay, "blue apples:" Stones or grapes?

A: Why not both?

Q: Okay! I can accept that! What was Berenger Sauniere collecting all those rocks for?

A: What about conductor?

Q: What do you mean?

A: What conducts.

Q: Was he building a little Stonehenge?

A: Have you researched the power of Stonehenge, and how it relates... where it fits in?

Q: Yes, we are bit by bit collecting things...

A: Well? And crop circles? Amazing connections... And what of "The Rosy Cross?"


You asked me in an earlier post, where was I going with my Alton Towers ideas and in truth it was going all the way back to Britain and the Druids ultimately.

On the reference to "Magna" above, I have discovered that a Percy was heavily involved in that affair too. Sir Richard de Percy (c. 1170-1244), 5th Baron Percy, was a Magnate from the North of England and was one of the twenty five barons appointed to enforce the observance of Magna Carta. The Percy family seem to be all over British history.

If you are descended from the ancient Kings of Wales, then this leads you back to King Arthur, whose kingdom covered northern Wales, today's Cumbria in England and much of Western Scotland (Strathclyde). He was the son of Uther Pendragon and to this day the Welsh flag has a dragon on it. It was this thought that came to mind when reading this excerpt in the transcripts again:

"Now, on a couple of occasions we have talked about trees. You have said that the trees would lead me to an answer. Then you made remarks about beechnut, and oaks, and beech and bloodlines and family trees and the Nordic Covenant. Basically, I asked about this Nordic Covenant and you said that I would find the answer, that the trees would lead me to it. I asked what literary source I should go to to find the least distorted source of information. You answered "trees" again. Then, you pointed out the leaves of the trees on this book. Later, when I read the book that was all about trees, it said that there was a need for someone of a certain bloodline to come along and free the dragon spawn. "None other than she can bring the pryf, or soul, up from the deep, no matter how they may make the serpents squirm. If she can hold her place in the gates of time." You answered me "You cannot see?" It also says that this person with this certain bloodline has the duty of creating a bridge between man and the gods to open the doorways of time. You said to me that these things had explanations that were readily apparent. Then, when I asked the question about this book and all the trees in it, that this was a clue given so that I would notice the things in this particular book, you said "certainly."

If you are descended from Arthur and his father Uther, then I think this makes you 'dragon spawn'.

Sorry if we have been going at cross purposes here but I have been linking Alton Towers to Francis Bacon all the way along to try and make sense of the C's statements.
 

Laura

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Perhaps you can help me out here Laura as I am a bit confused. I have been re-reading the C's transcripts from the late 1990's. If judaism originally grew out of Abraham, the father of the jewish race, then the C's had implied that he was really Paris of Troy and that Troy was in fact a city in what is now Cambridge in England and not Asia Minor. This would make Abraham a Celt or ancient Briton. If so, his background would be that of the religion and philosophy of the Druids, who were the priests/philosophers of the Celts and, given Stonehenge's great age, this would pre-date Babylon by a long way. That has been the basis for my research into what the C's were trying to convey in these particular transcripts, they even mentioned Stonehenge (see extract below). Have I got this all wrong then?

Please note that although I have read your original book 'Secret History of the World' I have not read your later books. If you covered these points off in those later works, then I am sorry but I have missed this.​

Keep in mind when reading transcripts that I was as clueless as anyone when asking questions and sometimes they were loaded. Cs were answering as well as they could considering my limitations. There are subtle issues there.


You asked me in an earlier post, where was I going with my Alton Towers ideas and in truth it was going all the way back to Britain and the Druids ultimately.

The problem there is that there is no history that actually covers what you think you want to cover because it has all been so corrupted, most often overlain with Christian or Jewish meanings. When trying to find out anything about "Druids", you really need to stick to the archaeology and even genetics research to get anything remotely resembling truth.

On the reference to "Magna" above, I have discovered that a Percy was heavily involved in that affair too. Sir Richard de Percy (c. 1170-1244), 5th Baron Percy, was a Magnate from the North of England and was one of the twenty five barons appointed to enforce the observance of Magna Carta. The Percy family seem to be all over British history.

A "Magna" is also a "great work" of some sort. See: Ars Magna (Cardano book) - Wikipedia

It is also mentioned in Umberto Eco's book "The Search for the Perfect Language."

If you are descended from the ancient Kings of Wales, then this leads you back to King Arthur, whose kingdom covered northern Wales, today's Cumbria in England and much of Western Scotland (Strathclyde). He was the son of Uther Pendragon and to this day the Welsh flag has a dragon on it. It was this thought that came to mind when reading this excerpt in the transcripts again:

Arthur and Uther were fictional characters. The dragon probably came from Scythian mercenaries that were sent to Britain by the Romans, who used it as their standard. They settled in Wales and the origins were forgotten except for some small mentions in some of the ancient historians. Think "Sarmatians." Sar=head


"Now, on a couple of occasions we have talked about trees. You have said that the trees would lead me to an answer. Then you made remarks about beechnut, and oaks, and beech and bloodlines and family trees and the Nordic Covenant. Basically, I asked about this Nordic Covenant and you said that I would find the answer, that the trees would lead me to it. I asked what literary source I should go to to find the least distorted source of information. You answered "trees" again. Then, you pointed out the leaves of the trees on this book. Later, when I read the book that was all about trees, it said that there was a need for someone of a certain bloodline to come along and free the dragon spawn. "None other than she can bring the pryf, or soul, up from the deep, no matter how they may make the serpents squirm. If she can hold her place in the gates of time." You answered me "You cannot see?" It also says that this person with this certain bloodline has the duty of creating a bridge between man and the gods to open the doorways of time. You said to me that these things had explanations that were readily apparent. Then, when I asked the question about this book and all the trees in it, that this was a clue given so that I would notice the things in this particular book, you said "certainly."

If you are descended from Arthur and his father Uther, then I think this makes you 'dragon spawn'.

Sorry if we have been going at cross purposes here but I have been linking Alton Towers to Francis Bacon all the way along to try and make sense of the C's statements.

As noted, the net has to be spread very wide and you have to dig very deep into the past.
 

Laura

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Added to the above: Keep in mind that I long ago gave up any idea of finding a solid connection that had anything to do with me personally. I enjoyed my genealogy work, found some really interesting things including skeletons in the family closet etc, but I just don't think it's about me.

What I have thought about is this: The original question that gave back the response about "struggle out of sequence with pre-ordained activities of Royal Blood Lines" was about a supernova:

1998\98-09-05.TXT
Q: (A) Now this supernova that is supposed to explode soon,
will it be soon in the sense of our SEEING it, that is the
arrival of the light from this, or soon in the
instantaneous sense?
A: Optically.
Q: (L) So, this supernova must have already occurred?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) And where did this supernova take place?
A: No dice, baby!
Q: (L) What clue can I follow to determine which star it is?
A: Instincts.
Q: (A) But, if it already occurred, then this means that the
instantaneous effects have already been felt, even if it
was lesser than the optical effects. It must have been
recorded by anomalous changes in genes? (L) Is that true?
A: Close.
Q: (L) So what, in the records, should we be looking for?
A: Sign of struggle out of sequence with pre-ordained
activities of Royal Blood Lines.

So, what occurs to me is this: a supernova can produce extremely damaging effects on Earth, life, etc, if it is too close. What is the safe distance for a supernova to have almost instantaneous effects long before it is seen? That is not only a factor of distance, it is a factor of time.

Scientific literature cites 50 to 100 light-years as the closest safe distance between Earth and a supernova.

How many potential supernovae are located closer to us than 50 to 100 light-years? The answer depends on the kind of supernova.
[...]
A Type II supernova is an aging massive star that collapses. There are no stars massive enough to do this located within 50 light-years of Earth.

But there are also Type I supernovae – caused by the collapse of a small faint white dwarf star. These stars are dim and hard to find, so we can’t be sure just how many are around. There are probably a few hundred of these stars within 50 light-years.

The star IK Pegasi B is the nearest known supernova progenitor candidate. It’s part of a binary star system, located about 150 light-years from our sun and solar system.

What about Betelgeuse? Another star often mentioned in the supernova story is Betelgeuse, one of the brightest stars in our sky, part of the famous constellation Orion. Betelgeuse is a supergiant star. It is intrinsically very brilliant.

Such brilliance comes at a price, however. Betelgeuse is one of the most famous stars in the sky because it’s due to explode someday. Betelgeuse’s enormous energy requires that the fuel be expended quickly (relatively, that is), and in fact Betelgeuse is now near the end of its lifetime. Someday soon (astronomically speaking), it will run out of fuel, collapse under its own weight, and then rebound in a spectacular Type II supernova explosion. When this happens, Betelgeuse will brighten enormously for a few weeks or months, perhaps as bright as the full moon and visible in broad daylight.

When will it happen? Probably not in our lifetimes, but no one really knows. It could be tomorrow or a million years in the future. When it does happen, any beings on Earth will witness a spectacular event in the night sky, but earthly life won’t be harmed. That’s because Betelgeuse is 430 light-years away.


Since there are no OBVIOUS good candidates within 50 to 100 light years, we are, more or less, in the dark about the source of such a supernova. The Cs rejected Betelgeuse as a candidate in session 20 Jan 1996. It was discussed again 13 Feb 2011.

Betelgeuse came up again, interestingly, in the same text about the "Royal Blood Lines." However, it is very useful to read the entire context:

1998\98-09-05.TXT
Q: (L) Having done my homework on supernovas to some extent,
and having discovered that either supergiant red stars are
in the process of going supernova, or supergiant blue
stars are getting ready to be ready to go supernova, as
well as eruptions of massive interstellar clouds, I note
that Betelgeuse, in the right shoulder of Orion, is a red
supergiant, and Rigel, in the foot of Orion, is a blue
supergiant, both of which could go supernova. Am I going
in the right direction?
A: You have begun to trek down the right path.
Q: (L) We noticed that the supernova that occurred in
Cassiopaea 300 years ago did not seem to have been widely
noticed by people on earth. What is the reason for this?
A: Distance.
Q: (L) Now, formerly I asked about the 'two new stars in
Cygnus and Serpentarius' that were written about in the
Rosicrucian Manifesto of about this period of time, and
you said they were talking about 'novae.' But, it seems
that there are no new stars in either of these
constellations. Yet, at approximately this time, was the
supernova in Cassiopaea.
A: Yes, those with foreknowledge were looking.
Q: (L) Also, there was a supernova that became the Crab
Nebula, which occurred 5,000 years ago, yet was not seen
on earth, until 900 years ago, which happens to be
exactly the time period I have been looking at as having
been a turning point where seeds were planted that are now
bearing fruit. Can you tell us if this supernova that was
seen 900 years ago, were there effects from the Supernova
that contributed to this state of affairs at the
culmination of the Dark Ages, the creation of the Templars
and so forth. What were the effects of this supernova
that was seen 900 years ago?
A: Excitation of base liquid molecules.
Q: (L) Did this have a physiological effect, or genetic, DNA
effect on people?
A: Slight.
Q: (L) What were the pronounced effects that one would have
been able to note. That is microscopic...
A: Growth.
Q: (L) Growth in what sense? Growth and change in the size
of people?
A: Close.
Q: (L) Growth in a psychological or mental sense?
A: Close.
Q: (L) What kind of growth specifically?
A: Both.
Q: (L) At the time of that particular supernova, 5,000 years
ago, were there any superluminal effects that were felt
instantly?
A: Maybe, research and correlate.
Q: (L) Was the Great Pyramid at Giza built and lined up to
supernova?
A: Part of the picture.
Q: (L) Were these supernova that occurred at the time of the
construction, or that were expected to occur at some point
in the future?
A: Both.
Q: (L) Are supernova in any sense cyclical?
A: In a sense requiring higher senses.
Q: (L) Do supernova create portals to other universes?
A: The doors may be redirected.
Q: (L) Does any of this supernova business have anything to
do with the constellation Leo?
A: In a way.
Q: (L) In what way?
A: Through geometric configuration.
Q: (L) What do you mean 'through geometric configuration?'
A: Status of Trine.
Q: (L) You mentioned the importance of the Horsehead Nebula
in relation to the symbol of the Knight. What is the
significance of the Horsehead Nebula?
A: Keep up your search, as you are near.
Q: (L) What would be the effect of cosmic rays emitted by a
supernova that is in some proximity to the earth on the
human body?
A: Genetic splice of strand.
Q: (L) How close would a supernova have to be to have this
effect?
A: 2000 light years.
Q: (L) So that either of these stars in Orion that are
potential supernova prospects could have this effect since
they are approximately 1500 light years away?
A: Yes.
Q: (A) Are we talking about effects that propagate with the
speed of light, or effects that are superluminal and
instantaneous?
A: Both, and slower as well.
Q: (L) What would be the effect that would be instantaneous?
A: Lesser.
Q: (A) Now this supernova that is supposed to explode soon,
will it be soon in the sense of our SEEING it, that is the
arrival of the light from this, or soon in the
instantaneous sense?
A: Optically.
Q: (L) So, this supernova must have already occurred?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) And where did this supernova take place?
A: No dice, baby!
Q: (L) What clue can I follow to determine which star it is?
A: Instincts.
Q: (A) But, if it already occurred, then this means that the
instantaneous effects have already been felt, even if it
was lesser than the optical effects. It must have been
recorded by anomalous changes in genes? (L) Is that true?
A: Close.
Q: (L) So what, in the records, should we be looking for?
A: Sign of struggle out of sequence with pre-ordained
activities of Royal Blood Lines.
Q: (L) In other words, the usurpation of the blood lines?
A: Close.
 

MJF

Dagobah Resident
Keep in mind when reading transcripts that I was as clueless as anyone when asking questions and sometimes they were loaded. Cs were answering as well as they could considering my limitations. There are subtle issues there.



The problem there is that there is no history that actually covers what you think you want to cover because it has all been so corrupted, most often overlain with Christian or Jewish meanings. When trying to find out anything about "Druids", you really need to stick to the archaeology and even genetics research to get anything remotely resembling truth.



A "Magna" is also a "great work" of some sort. See: Ars Magna (Cardano book) - Wikipedia

It is also mentioned in Umberto Eco's book "The Search for the Perfect Language."



Arthur and Uther were fictional characters. The dragon probably came from Scythian mercenaries that were sent to Britain by the Romans, who used it as their standard. They settled in Wales and the origins were forgotten except for some small mentions in some of the ancient historians. Think "Sarmatians." Sar=head




As noted, the net has to be spread very wide and you have to dig very deep into the past.
Thank you for your considered response. I guess you must have pondered at length the significance of what the C's were saying about Abraham really being Paris, Prince of Troy fleeing from a destroyed city and kingdom in Britain? What were the C's trying to insinuate by this? Was it meant just as an example of poetic allegory, by which stories are translated to other times and places? They suggested that Helen of Troy may have been Sarah of the Bible and Nefertiti (a genetically modified hybrid) to the Egyptians, who was certainly a real person. The Pharaoh she was married to and had children by was meant to be Akhenaten, the heretic pharaoh who was, uniquely for an Egyptian pharaoh, a monotheist. According to the C's he was murdered by drowning. One genetic factor that might tie Abraham in with the Ancient Britons was that he reputedly had red hair, which is more common in Britain than almost any other country in the world. There has been graphiti found in Egypt that describes the hebrews as braying red haired asses. Is this a genetic clue perhaps?

However, if we run with the theory that Abraham was in reality a Trojan prince in exile, then it also makes sense that the remnants of the Trojans scattered throughout the Mediterranean area, including Spain, Italy, Greece and no doubt Egypt. There is certainly archeological evidence that the Egyptians were trading with the ancient Britains long before the Romans came. Ancient Egyptian boats have been discovered in the Humber for example. You have often mentioned that the Ancient Britons were worshippers of the she goddess Danu. Now if the Trojans fled Britain for southern Europe, they would have taken their gods with them. The C's mentioned that Stonehenge was the Temple of Apollo. If that is the case, then the Britons/Celts worshipped the same gods as the Greeks and Romans. Could Danu therefore be Diana (to the Romans) or Artemis (to the Greeks), the sister of Apollo? The C's confirmed that civilisation spread from Northern Europe to southern and south eastern Europe, not the other way around. This would seem to point to the Celts as the real civilisers and also ties in with the idea of the ancient Britons being the Hyperborians. In addition, the C's mentioned that the British Celts would send tributes in the form of messages on leaves to places in Greece like Delphi etc. over many centuries, so this seems to indicate there were ancient connections between the British and the Greeks long before the Roman conquest of Britain.

The C's implied that Homer's Iliad was really an epic about the Celts not the Greeks as per Iman Wilken's book 'Where Once Stood Troy'. I was struck when reading Geoffrey of Monmouth's' History of the Kings of Britain' (which is clearly romanticised fiction) how the story of Brutus mirrors Homer's Odyssey, perhaps deliberately. There is one passage in the account that really struck me, where he describes how Brutus and his companions went to a ruined temple of Diana and offered sacrifice to her. Brutus then has a dream of the goddess in which she tells him to sail past Gaul to an island once occupied by giants and there to found a second Troy. She then said a race of kings will be born there from your stock and the round circle of the earth will be subject to them. The tale of Brutus is truly homeric. As it was written in 1136, this was long before the British Empire arose. However, for a myth, it is strange that in some real sense it was fulfilled when you look at the Anglo-American Empire of the last 400 years.

I appreciate that written histories have been seriously corrupted but there is normally some basis or grain of truth within them. For example, the Romans truly believed that they were Trojan descendants and just maybe the name 'Alban' could be tenuous proof of this connection or maybe not. I think it is the same with Scotia, the legendary founder of the Scotti, which tribe would go on to occupy Alban and change its name to Scotland. Scotia was by legend the daughter of Zedekiah the last King of Judah who along with her sister Tea-Tephi (who became Tara, the Queen of Ireland) were put in the guardianship of Jeremiah the Prophet who took them to Egypt and then on to the British Isles and safety. The British Israelites claim that the records of the Bards in Ireland show, that when Jeremiah and the king's daughters were in Egypt, they had in their possession, Jacob's Pillar Stone, and the Mysterious, and Holy Sacred Ark of the Covenant. Jacob's Pillar Stone is, of course, reputedly now the famous Coronation Stone of the Kings of Ireland, Scotland, and England.

Myths are very powerful and are often remembered through poetry and song. Here is just one example:

Old Irish verse:

The praises of Tea Tephi are sung as:

"The Beautiful One with a Royal Prosperous Smile."
"Tephi (Hebrew beautiful) the most beautiful that traversed the Plain."
"Temor of Bregia, whence so called."

Relate to me O learned Sages,
When was the place called Temor?
Was it in the time of Parthalon of battles?
Or at the first arrival of Caesaire?
Tell me in which of these invasions
Did the place have the name of Tea-mor?
O Tuan, O generous Finchadh,
O Dubhan, Ye venerable Five
Whence was acquired the name of Te-mor?
Until the coming of the agreeable Teah
The wife of Heremon of noble aspect.
A Rampart was raised around her house
For Teah the daughter of Lughaidh (God's House)
She was buried outside in her mound
And from her it was named Tea-muir.
Cathair, Crofin not inapplicable.
Was its name among the Tuatha-de-Danaan
Until the coming of Tea - the Just
Wife of Heremon of the noble aspect?
A wall was raised around her house
For Tea the daughter of Lughaidh,
(And) she was interred in her wall outside,
So that from her is Tea-mor.
A habitation which was a Dun (Hebrew court) and a fortress
Which was the glory of murs without demolition,
On which the monument of Tea after her death,
So that it was an addition to her dowry.
The humble Heremon had
A woman in beautiful confinement
Who received from him everything she wished for.
He gave her whatever he promised,
Bregatea a meritorious abode
(Where lies) The grave, which is the great Mergech (Hebrew burial place)
The burial place which was not violated.
The daughter of Pharaoh of many champions
Tephi, the most beautiful that traversed the Plain.
She gave a name to her fair cahir,
The woman with the prosperous royal smile,
Mur-Tephi where the assembly met.
It is not a mystery to be said
A Mur (was raised) over Tephi I have heard.
Strength this, without contempt,
Which great proud Queen have formed
The length, breadth of the house of Tephi,
Sixty feet without weakness
As Prophets and Druids have seen.

From "Forward" - Watchman What of the Dawn

There are huge difficulties applying such myths to known history but we do know that Ireland was invaded by Milesian or Giodelic Celts from Spain who overcame the Tuatha Dé Danann, whose origins appear to be somewhat mystical if you believe the legends Tuatha Dé Danann - Wikipedia
According to the legend, the Milesians encountered three Tuatha Dé Danann goddesses, Ériu, Banba and Fodla, who asked that the island be named after them; Ériu is the origin of the modern name Éire, and Banba and Fodla are still sometimes used as poetic names for Ireland. Here we find the triplicative goddess concept again, which links with Diana, also a triple goddess, in the form of: Diana, Luna, and Hecate. Again, was Diana really Danu? Tara and Scotia may have been the same person or two different people in different times or just the names of persons around whom legends have accreted, like Robin Hood and King Arthur. It is impossible to validate these claims today unless bodies can be found, carbon dated and DNA samples taken.

The British Israelites have sought hard to establish though a link between the Davidic line of Judah and British Kings for their own messianic purposes. There may be something in it but if the C's are right, then the real link between the British and the Judahites is with Paris/Abraham, which is much further back in time but, as you state, Judaic history has been heavily corrupted.

I attach something I downloaded from the internet, which promotes the British Israelite thinking for those who might be interested. I don't buy into it but one passage did make me think when recalling what the C's said:

"Pharaoh Cingris to the Irish, who was strangled in a boat on the Nile, became the Pharaoh of the Exodus during the time of Moses."

This is possibly a garbled reference to Pharaoh Akhenaten, if the C's are right about his fate.

I would have to agree that the C's do give very cryptic clues. Although we are now preoccupied with other worries, would it be too much to ask them to give some futher clues/comments or has this particular parade now passed us by?
 

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MJF

Dagobah Resident
"Arthur and Uther were fictional characters. The dragon probably came from Scythian mercenaries that were sent to Britain by the Romans, who used it as their standard. They settled in Wales and the origins were forgotten except for some small mentions in some of the ancient historians. Think "Sarmatians." Sar=head"

I agree that the Arthurian legend concerning the Knights of the Round Table and the Quest for the Holy Grail etc. were just medieval fictions and inventions but I do believe there is a real figure in British history around whom the Arthurian legend has accreted. Many historians have tried to track him down over the centuries.

The power of this myth was so strong that Henry Tudor (a Welshman), who became Henry VII and father of Henry VIII and his sister Queen Margaret of Scotland (who married into the Stuart dynasty), went out of his way to link his ancestory with that of Arthur for obvious political reasons. Indeed, he called his oldest son Arthur and had a stained glass window of the dying Arthur being transported to the Isle of Avalon in his private chapel. Indeed, Henry believed the Isle of Avalon was actually Brittany. If people wonder why the main island of Britain is called Great Britain, it isn't because the British are big headed (although some may believe that is true too) but it is intended to distinguish mainland Britain from Brittany in France (ancient Gaul), which is little Britain. Many Bretons today are descended from British Celts who fled Devon and Cornwall to escape the Anglo-Saxon invaders.

I have recently been reading Graham Phillips & Martin Keatman's book 'King Arthur - The True Story'. The authors after diligent research make the case that Arthur was in fact the British King Owain Ddantgwyn. He was king of Gwynned and Powys in modern Wales and was the most powerful ruler in Britain in the early 6th century. He led the British to their most important victory over the Anglo-Saxons during this period at the Battle of Badon in 493 AD. He would die at the Battle of Camlan in 519 AD. His main stronghold was the old Roman City of Virconium in Powys. Many believe the name "Arthur" means "The Bear" from the latin "Artorius". Hence, it transates in Welsh to "bear man, hero, or man of strength," from the Welsh arth, meaning "bear" and ur, an ending meaning "man." And also from the Gaelic Artair, Middle Gaelic Artuir, both derived from the Old Irish art, meaning a "bear". An alternative theory, which has only gained limited acceptance among scholars, derives the name Arthur from the Latin Arcturus (the brightest star in the constellation Boötes, near Ursa Major or the Great Bear).

Owain Ddantgwyn was the father of Cuneglasus, his successor, whom the historian Gildas referred to as the "Charioteer of the Bear's Stronghold". A list of genealogies, compiled around 955 from earlier monastic manuscripts and now attached to the 'Annales Cambraiae', a manuscript held in the British Library, reveals that Cuneglasus' father was called Owain Ddantgwyn. Of course, as Laura correctly states, historic records can be falsified but at least it suggests there may be some evidence for Owain Ddantgwyn in the surviving historical records.

An alternative theory for the Welsh dragon being introduced into Britain by Scythian mercenaries is that it was the Dacians (from modern day Romania) who flew it in battle here. The Romans often used foreign cavalry in their service and the Dacians were definitely known as being mounted auxiliaries for them. The Dacians were based at Richborough and subsequently at Hadrian's Wall in Northumberland. Many married local British women and opted to stay here after the Romans pulled out of Britain in 418 AD.

As a matter of linking interest, the famous Romanian Prince, Vlad III, most commonly known to history as 'Vlad the Impaler' or Vlad Dracula, was Voivode of Wallachia. Born in Transylvania as the second son of the nobleman Vlad II Dracul, he took the name Dracula, meaning “son of Dracul,” when he was initiated into a secret order of Christian knights known as the Order of the Dragon. (In Romanian, Dracul means “dragon.”). Queen Elizabeth II is related to Vlad the Impaler, which makes Prince Charles the 'heir to Dracula's bloodline. Hence, you could argue that Prince Charles could be considered as being the dragon's spawn as well.

 
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MJF

Dagobah Resident
Well, that's an interesting conjecture about Anne Boleyn.

I've got quite a few connections between my Percys and the Earls of Arundel in the tree, but I didn't find any Talbots except a couple more recent connections who spelled their name "Talbott".

It's all highly suggestive of something underneath, but no cigar yet.
I have done more research into Anne Boleyn and found a website that is dedicated to her.

It seems Anne Boleyn was Henry Percy's true love but he would be forced to contract a loveless marriage to Mary Talbot sometime between March 1525 and September 1526. However, there is a suggestion that he may have previously entered into a pre-marriage contract with Anne Boleyn. Note that whilst the family lawyers are settling the legal issue over the pre-marriage contract, Anne is sent to her father's house so as to be out of the way. Was the true reason though that she could have been pregnant at the time and this would have scuppered the marriage to Mary Talbot, as it would have been proof of consummation?

At this time, her sister, Mary Boleyn, was conducting an open affair with Henry VIII. This is what the article says about the relationship:

"Cavendish suggested also, that at the time of Percy-Boleyn affair, King Henry VIII himself was already interested in Anne, although she knew nothing about it. But today many historians agree that it was way too early for King’s interest in Anne – in 1522/1523 he was in love with Anne’s sister Mary, who was his mistress. During the affair with the King, Mary gave birth to two children (1524,1526) and it was speculated that they were Henry VIII’s bastards although he never recognized them as his offspring. Henry VIII became interested in Anne Boleyn not earlier than in 1526."

Note that Mary gave birth to two illegitimate children in 1524 and 1526 but Henry would not recognise them as his offspring. This is pure conjecture but is it possible that Mary consented to pretending to be pregnant with the first child in order to cover for her sister Anne's pregnancy by Henry Percy, thereby preserving her younger sister's reputation? The time frame certainly fits. It is also noteworthy that Henry Percy would breakdown at Anne Boleyn's trial in 1536 where he was present as a member of the House of Lords. Here is what the author says about this:

"... I think that Percy collapsed not only because he was very ill and weak at the time, but also because he had some feelings towards Anne. Perhaps it wasn’t love, but a simple pity for the woman whom he once hoped to marry".

Why is this of any importance today, especially to the royal bloodlines? Well, if I am right in my conjecture, the present Queen of the United Kingdom may be descended through her mother from the child of that union, who was Catherine Carey. Here is the line of descent:
  • Mary Boleyn (d. 1543) m. William Carey
  • Catherine Carey (c.1524-1569) m. Sir Francis Knollys
  • Lettice Knollys (1543-1634) m. Walter Devereux, 1st Earl of Essex
  • Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex (1565-1601) m. Frances Walsingham
  • Frances Devereux (1599-1674) m. William Seymour, Duke of Somerset
  • Jane Seymour (1637-1679) m. Charles Boyle, 3rd Viscount Dungarvan
  • Charles Boyle, 2nd Earl of Burlington (d. 1704) m. Juliana Noel
  • Richard Boyle, 3rd Earl of Burlington (1695-1753) m. Dorothy Savile
  • Charlotte Elizabeth Boyle (1731-1754) m. William Cavendish, 4th Duke of Devonshire
  • Dorothy Cavendish (1750-1794) m. William Cavendish-Bentinck, 3rd Duke of Portland, Prime Minister
  • Lieutenant-Colonel Lord Charles Bentinck (1780-1826) m. Anne Wellesley (Lady Abdy)
  • Reverend Charles Cavendish-Bentinck (1817-1865) m. Carolina Louis Burnaby
  • Cecilia Nina Cavendish-Bentinck (1862-1938) m. Claude Bowes-Lyon, 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
  • Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother (1900-2002) m. King George VI
  • Queen Elizabeth II (1926- ) m. Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark, now known as Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh
Princes William and Harry are descended from Mary Boleyn not only through Prince Charles, but also through their mother’s Spencer family ancestry.

I thought you might be glad to learn that, if I am right, a Percy descendant may currently be sitting on the Throne of England.
 

OutSky

Jedi
.........
Their reference to "Magna" could mean both magnetite (with all that that conveys), as mentioned in an ealier session, and Magna Carta, relating to the charter King John signed at Runnymede for the English Barons Some historians think King John was forced to sign it by the head of the Knights Templar in England (the forerunners of the Freemasons and Rosicrucians) and therefore this links subsequently to Bacon and his Freemasons/Rosicrucians their successors. 'Magna' also means 'Work' as in 'The Great Work' (magnus opus), which was something Bacon taught of in his Rosicrucian writings (transmutation of the inner person).​
Okay. Even as little I may add, rigorously speaking, "Magna" is an English word incorporated from the Latin magnus, —as well its variation magna— which is a Latin adjective meaning "great, supreme, full, complete, …" However, this adjective, given its qualities, has been poetically used to refer to the "Work." But, in point of fact "work" in Latin writes "opus." Now, in Old Icelandic "magma" means "power/empower." Moreover, in Sanskrit "magma" means "immersed." If you keep that latter note in mind… ahead you will see…! So, I try to make the case next.
12 July 1997 Session
.........
A: Genus is family tree.

Q: And what family is it a family tree for?

A: Check your Magna for lesson.
…………..

Q: …….What was Berenger Sauniere collecting all those rocks for?

A: What about conductor?

Q: What do you mean?

A: What conducts.

Q: Was he building a little stonehenge?

A: Have you researched the power of stonehenge, and how it relates... where it fits in?

Q: Yes, we are bit by bit collecting things...

A: Well? And crop circles? Amazing connections... And what of “The Rosy Cross?”​


On the reference to "Magna" above, I have discovered that a Percy was heavily involved in that affair too. Sir Richard de Percy (c. 1170-1244), 5th Baron Percy, was a Magnate from the North of England and was one of the twenty five barons appointed to enforce the observance of Magna Carta. The Percy family seem to be all over British history.
"Magna-te" like a magneto? And in the former quote, "Conductor"? And how funny is that the Nordic thunder-god Thor is the god of the electromagnetic lightning and one of his sons is named… Magne —also Magni. See?!!! Now, in Old Icelandic, magne/megna means power, strength. And what about the "te"? Hmmm, I see at least 2 lines for pursuing. The first one is the "T" itself that reminds us the 19th Greek letter, i.e. the Tau —tau cross?! And the second comes up in Welsh where we have te as "what is spread."

It is like the saying, "The devil is on the details."
That odd mention of Trent by the C's reminds me that the river Trent rises in Staffordshire where Alton Towers is located and flows out to the sea at the Humber Estuary in Yorkshire. You will also note that Henry Percy was created Lord President of the Council of the North. Makes me wonder about the 'Holder of the Trent' reference and if there is a connection.

So, could the etymology take us even more out of the box, and hopefully to practical tracks? Well, that’s only a tool, the main connections are still in our core, I think.

Anyway, continuing with Welsh, a possible translation of Trent is "strongly flooding". Also, Trent may be a contraction of tros, "over" with hynt, "way," which may be considered a river that could be crossed via "fords". Indeed, the component "rid" —from Welsh rhyd, "ford"— is seen in various places along the river Trent, such as Hill Ridware —and Staffordshire?!!. An academic translation to Trent is "the trespasser", which is claimed the waters flooding over the land —but I suspect we need to see that, again, "out of the box".

And at last; Is not a "passage," a ford?!! what better place to a holder? Now, since I moved to Celtic languages —which seem in high esteem in some UFO narratives and even to the C’s (e.g. June 20th 2009 session on Tá me ag éirigh eolas that links "growth of knowledge")— I amount to this that we can easily notice these elements for example in the Celtic collection The four books of Wales — e.g. English translation of W. Skene— which brings exquisite Arthurian tales that seem to uncover that sealed in the heart of the bards.​
 

MJF

Dagobah Resident
Okay. Even as little I may add, rigorously speaking, "Magna" is an English word incorporated from the Latin magnus, —as well its variation magna— which is a Latin adjective meaning "great, supreme, full, complete, …" However, this adjective, given its qualities, has been poetically used to refer to the "Work." But, in point of fact "work" in Latin writes "opus." Now, in Old Icelandic "magma" means "power/empower." Moreover, in Sanskrit "magma" means "immersed." If you keep that latter note in mind… ahead you will see…! So, I try to make the case next.






"Magna-te" like a magneto? And in the former quote, "Conductor"? And how funny is that the Nordic thunder-god Thor is the god of the electromagnetic lightning and one of his sons is named… Magne —also Magni. See?!!! Now, in Old Icelandic, magne/megna means power, strength. And what about the "te"? Hmmm, I see at least 2 lines for pursuing. The first one is the "T" itself that reminds us the 19th Greek letter, i.e. the Tau —tau cross?! And the second comes up in Welsh where we have te as "what is spread."

It is like the saying, "The devil is on the details."


So, could the etymology take us even more out of the box, and hopefully to practical tracks? Well, that’s only a tool, the main connections are still in our core, I think.

Anyway, continuing with Welsh, a possible translation of Trent is "strongly flooding". Also, Trent may be a contraction of tros, "over" with hynt, "way," which may be considered a river that could be crossed via "fords". Indeed, the component "rid" —from Welsh rhyd, "ford"— is seen in various places along the river Trent, such as Hill Ridware —and Staffordshire?!!. An academic translation to Trent is "the trespasser", which is claimed the waters flooding over the land —but I suspect we need to see that, again, "out of the box".

And at last; Is not a "passage," a ford?!! what better place to a holder? Now, since I moved to Celtic languages —which seem in high esteem in some UFO narratives and even to the C’s (e.g. June 20th 2009 session on Tá me ag éirigh eolas that links "growth of knowledge")— I amount to this that we can easily notice these elements for example in the Celtic collection The four books of Wales — e.g. English translation of W. Skene— which brings exquisite Arthurian tales that seem to uncover that sealed in the heart of the bards.​
You have made some very good points here. I didn't know that Thor's son was known as Magne or Magni. Thor was, of course, a Norse god but the British were influenced by the vikings. It is not for nothing that our days of the week are mainly named after the Norse gods, e.g., Thursday is Thor's day. The more I look into this, I am beginning to realise just how subtle the C's clues can be. It is like putting a very difficult picture puzzle together from lots of odd pieces. I hope to do another post soon on a clue that may relate to Doncaster and therefore perhaps to Dancar, in order to demonstrate this subtlety.

Keeping with the subject of Magna, I appreciate that the term means a Great Work such as Magnum Opus, often used for a composer's greatest musical composition. However, there is no greater work in English history though than the Magna Carta (the Great Charter) and to find that a Percy was involved in it was too much to ignore. The Domesday Book was also a great work but it was the Magna Carta that set out the citizens' rights for the first time in England. It still applies here through rights like 'Habeus Corpus'. It also inspired the American revolutionaries, whose leaders were in the main Freemasons. On this last point I think there is a link here, since Bacon and his Rosicrucian colleagues had a dream of creating the perfect model republic in which all men would have equal rights. This dream is encapsulated in his final work 'The New Atlantis'. I believe it was this and other ideas of the 17th century Rosicrucians that drove the leaders of the American revolution to rebel against the British Crown and set up their republic through the Declaration of Independence. These ideas would also help to shape the US Constitution.

However, the term 'Magna' also links with the work Freemasons, and by extension, Rosicrucians, are meant to do on themselves in order to transform their inner selves (an enlightenment). Sir Francis Bacon was one of those who heavily promoted this Great Work and established a 7 step guide to achieve it. This is also why I think the C's highlighted the fact that the real purpose of alchemy was the inner transmutation of the alchemist himself and not that simply of base metals. Bacon and his colleagues were amongst other things alchemists too.​
 

MJF

Dagobah Resident
Well, considering the context of the response about "Magna" and the double coding such as for "Magna Carta", I think that possibly my new book on Christianity - definitely a magnum opus - may hold the key.
Alternatively, could it relate to the book you were working on or had completed at the time of the session? Have you seen my follow up post on Henry Percy?
 

Laura

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Alternatively, could it relate to the book you were working on or had completed at the time of the session? Have you seen my follow up post on Henry Percy?

I hadn't written any books at all at that time.
 
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