Gluten and Psychopathy

Hi wetroof, it is my understanding that dairy sensitivity can be either lactose intolerance or milk protein(casein,whey) allergy. Lactose intolerance is a person’s inability to digest lactose, the sugar found in milk. Milk protein allergy is the body’s allergic reaction to asein. However, some researchers (like Mark Hyman) present good evidence of the fact that most of us, if not all, are sensitive to casein and that it's causing havoc in our bodies. It's just that the symptoms can be so subtle or that you are so used to them(like brain fog) that you don't think you have a problem. If you want to operate at 'peak performance' I highly recommend the Ultra Simple Diet. I've followed the dietary recommendations of this forum for ca a half year now and the benefits have been many. :)
 
Aragorn said:
Hi wetroof, it is my understanding that dairy sensitivity can be either lactose intolerance or milk protein(casein,whey) allergy. Lactose intolerance is a person’s inability to digest lactose, the sugar found in milk. Milk protein allergy is the body’s allergic reaction to asein. However, some researchers (like Mark Hyman) present good evidence of the fact that most of us, if not all, are sensitive to casein and that it's causing havoc in our bodies. It's just that the symptoms can be so subtle or that you are so used to them(like brain fog) that you don't think you have a problem. If you want to operate at 'peak performance' I highly recommend the Ultra Simple Diet. I've followed the dietary recommendations of this forum for ca a half year now and the benefits have been many. :)

I agree with this. I don't have lactose intolerance but do become inflamed (increased mucous production) when I have dairy. Prior to realizing this, I would have said that I have no problems with dairy. As Aragorn says, some people experience such mild symptoms that they don't realize that there's a problem until they cut out certain substances. I eventually had to come to the realization that the way symptoms presented themselves to me were not normal.

The dairy industry has done an amazing job programming people to think it's okay to drink it especially with the way they tout it as a main source of calcium (they even had an entire campaign that linked milk drinking to be beneficial for osteoporosis). So I definitely understand the difficulties in letting it go. I would just suggest to you to try stopping your intake of dairy for a couple of months and take note of the changes.
 
I think we must be aware of the ease we could fall into the false logic by using syllogism as basis of proof.

Using Gregory Batesons 'men are grass' example.

Example of this type of connection :
1.) All men are mortal , Socrates is a man therefore Socrates is mortal. (true)
2.) Grass dies , Men die, Men are grass. (false)

In both of the above sentences the conclusions are arrived by following the same logical steps but one statement is true and the other is false, therefore the logical argument used is flawed.


So we have evidence that in many people casein causes a histamine reaction there is also evidence that daffodill pollin causes a histamine reaction in some people.
Therefore an argument linking daffodils and psychopathy could easily be made.

quoting zyla
wiki: Casein has been documented to break down to produce the peptide casomorphin, an opioid that appears to act primarily as a histamine releaser.

So milk protein releases histamine, which has been found to be elevated in psychopaths.

Quoting Wiki
Allergic rhinitis or hay fever is an allergic inflammation of the nasal airways. It occurs when an allergen such as pollen or dust is inhaled by an individual with a sensitized immune system, it triggers antibody production. These antibodies mostly bind to mast cells, which contain histamine. When the mast cells are stimulated by pollen and dust, histamine (and other chemicals) are released.

Can we create a daffodils make psychopaths argument here? :)


So I am not trying to undermine peoples research or knock their arguments, I am just saying BE aware of how you form conclusions - check the logic is sound!

Its obvious that different foods affect different people. Maybe all foods affect people - its our source of chemical intake after all.

I went raw foody, and ate only 100% raw uncooked food for 8 months. I have never felt to good, so clear thinking, so calm and had so many positive emotions. When Winter came and the temperature was -25C and I had very poor heating in the house I made vegetable soups for heat. Boy did I suffer: I needed something hot, I made vegetable soups made my own stock so that I wasnt introducing chemicalc and after eating and my nose was running and my body reacting within and hour. I still eat about 60% raw per day and the nearer I get to 100% for any length of time, the more effect I feel when I have cooked.

WHy ?
In John Tobe's book "The Golden Treasury of Natural Health Knowledge," there is a copy of a paper by Paul Kouchakoff, M.D., for the First International Congress of Microbiology, in Paris, in 1930. Dr. Kouchakoff's discovery concerned the leukocytes, the white blood cells. Apparently it was well known that immediately after a person ate, there was a sudden increase of the white corpuscles occurred. Here are some of the key points of Dr. Kouchakoff's conclusions:

"After 300 experiments on ten individuals of different ages and sex, we have come to the following conclusions:

1. The augmentation of the number of white corpuscles and the alteration of the correlation of the percentage between them which takes place after every consumption of food, and was considered until now as a physiological phenomenon, is, in reality, a pathological one. It is called forth by the introduction into the system of foodstuffs altered by means of a high temperature and by complicated treatments of ordinary products produced by nature.

2. After the consumption of foodstuffs produced by nature but altered by means of high temperature, an augmentation of the general number of the general number of white corpuscles, as well as a change in the correlation of this percentage, takes places.

3. It has been proved possible to take, without changing the blood formula, every kind of foodstuff which is habitually eaten now, but only by following this rule, viz.-that it must be taken along with raw products, according to a definite formula. (Author's note-as I recall, this formula was that the raw foods must be eaten first and must consitute at least 50% of the total meal.)

4. Blood examination can only have significance as a diagnosis if it is made on an empty stomach."


From Ann Wigmores Be you Own Doctor:
Further on, in the same book, Dr. Wigmore reports:

"The experience of my good friend, John A. MacDonald, shows the power, the almost unbreakable strength for evil, in improper foods. Some years ago, John owned a pet shop which specialized in the raising of white mice. He sold mice by the thousands all over the world. In his enclosure for the mice, he had thousands all over the world. In his enclosure for the mice, he had placed a large bale of hay. From the dried grass, the mice built a cooperative apartment house. They cut numerous tunnels through it, built hanging gardens, cliff-dwelling pueblos and wonderful balconies on which they raised their young in harmony. It was a happy existence of peace and plenty

"John became concerned about the rising price of grain to feed the mice and was on the lookout for ways to cut costs. A neighbor who ran a rather sizeable boarding house offered to supply him daily with leftover scraps from her tables. John gladly accepted the opportunity to increase his profits. But when the leftover food was sustituted for the grain, a blight seemed to settle over the mouse community. Eating the same food that human beings ate changed the complexion of the c0-operative establisment. Quarrels broke out and battles raged through the baled-hay corridors. By the end of the week, dead mice littered the floor of the compound. Cannibalistic parents ate their young. The weaker mice were slain without provocation.

"Realizing that only disaster loomed ahead, John threw out the scraps of food and went back to grain. The result was quickly evident. No more mice were found dead of half eaten. This is not an imaginary story. It is a documented history of facts. And what the food human beings ate did to the mice, it is evidently doing today in many disastrous ways to our children and adults in many of our communities."

Dr. Wigmore continued:

"Here is another incident to demonstrate the havoc of unsuitable food. It is the saga of two sister white cats having litters of kittens in the same bureau drawer one early May. They were both fed a mild, dry cat food mixed with freshly cut wheatgrass. Harmony reigned in that drawer as the eight kittens used any convenient spout that was available for the precious milk. The kittens did not know which of the cats was their mother.

Then on May 25, responding to an advertisement on television, the mother cats were switched from their accustomed food to canned meat with no wheatgrass. The harmonious situation began to disrupt almost immediately. On May 31 the two mother cats were rolling on the floor clawing each other, bringing blood to their white fur. The canned meat was not served that evening, and in its place was the mild cat food with the wheatgrass. This feeding was continued and within a week the two mother cats once again sprawled out peacefully to co-operatively feed the youngsters. The experiment was repeated again to make sure this was the reason for the change in disposition of the mother cats. The results were the same."

R.B. Pearson from 'Pasteur Plagiarist Imposter!'

Experiments done with cats by Dr. F.M. Pottenger and D.G. Simonsen. Pearson writes:

"They put two groups of cats on diets of meat and vegetables, identical in value, except that in one group the meat was given raw, and this group seemed to maintain normal good health throughout the experiments. In the other group the meat was all cooked, and this group showed an astonishing breakdown of health in ALL of the animals.

"They found every sign of lack of minerals, such as incomplete development of the skull or other bones, bowed legs, rickets, curvature of the spine, paralysis of the legs, convulsive seizure, thyroid abscesses, cyanosis of liver and kidneys, enlarged colon, and degeneration of the motor nerve ganglion cells throughout the spinal cord and brain stem, with some cells affected in the cerebellum and cerebral cortex."

Strange to say none of the cats on raw meat had any of these troubles at all, yet millions of humans are afflicted with one or more of them, and have no conception of the cause, and neither have their doctors in most of the cases. They add, of these cats: "The deficiency renders the experimental animals so deplete in important vitalizing factors that the third generation is unable to live beyond the period corresponding to childhood in the human being."

So there you have , Wheat, Milk and cooked food all contribute to psychic/emotional and physical pathology.

And dont forget those daffodils ;)
 
Hi wetroof,

You can make a search in the forum for dairy and milk as well. We recommend that dairy should NOT be re-introduced after the elimination diet.

As Laura wrote recently:

Laura said:
Despite the fact that many people are trying desperately to find ways to retain dairy in their diets, the fact remains that even if it is tolerated by some people, and even if there are some cows - or goats - that produce milk that can be better tolerated, adult human beings have no need whatsoever to continue to consume dairy products other than, perhaps, the pure fat as in pure butter or ghee. The ability to digest milk beyond 2 years of age (in some cases, the ability persists to age 4) is a mutation that enabled some of our ancestors to survive severe global stresses but being able to tolerate is not the same as a food source that is entirely beneficial.

Continuing to promote dairy products when it is known that the great majority of the earth's population are lactose intolerant is simply irresponsible. The many people who clearly demonstrate that even the "good cows" do not produce milk that is tolerated suggests strongly that this effort is misguided at best, manipulative and dangerous at worst.

You can also read more about dairy here: http://www.health-matrix.net/2010/06/05/why-milk-is-so-evil/
 
wetroof said:
supposedly their is such thing as lactose free milk. so maybe we could drink that.

Why not drink vegetable milks like pumpkin milk, hemp milk, quinoa milk...
 
Hi Stevie Argyll,

Woops. :-[ I see your point on those daffodils! Thanks for pointing out that bad logic; if I were a Ph.D., my career would be over by now. I didn’t mean to make any definite conclusion on histamine and psychopathy, though; I just meant to point out an observation. However, since histamine is involved in inflammation, there must be something causing its elevation in the blood, and I don’t think those levels can all be due to pollen allergies. Perhaps it’s the lead? The article did say that psychopaths had elevated lead levels. Perhaps the casein binds to the lead, and (with leaky gut) can pass through the BBB?

This is all I’ve found so far that can support that idea. Curse the English language!

__http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17924701

“”Alpha-casein is the major casein protein fraction from bovine milk and is responsible for binding to many ligands. This paper reports the results on the interaction of Pb(II) with alpha-casein. The interaction studies by spectroscopic titration indicate that Pb(II) has two binding sites with an association constant (ka) of (2.3 +/- 0.2) x 10 (5) M(-1). Raman spectra of the alpha-casein-Pb(II) complex show reduction in the amide I region as well as minor perturbations in the sulfhydryl region of alpha-casein. Stopped-flow studies show that the reaction mechanism of Pb(II) follows a pseudo-first-order reaction with a rate of 25 +/- 6 s(-1). The stopped-flow time-resolved spectra show peaks at 330 and 360 nm, correlating to Pb(II)-thiolate bands in the UV absorption spectra. Modification of cysteines present in alpha-casein does not result in binding of lead, indicating that cysteines could be one of the Pb(II) binding sites.

__http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8247411

“”The interaction of lead (Pb) with proteins may represent a fundamental mechanism by which Pb exerts toxicity. In this overview, various factors which influence the interaction of Pb with proteins will be discussed. Pb interacts with enzyme functional groups, and high-affinity metal-binding proteins, such as Pb-binding proteins and metallothioneins, can mediate this Pb-enzyme interaction. Many other factors influence Pb-protein interactions including ligand competition and binding affinities; protein folding and the nature of the metal-binding site; rates of protein synthesis and degradation; and intracellular localization of the ligand and metal. The remainder of this overview will focus on specific examples of important proteins known to be influenced by Pb or which hypothetically may be influenced by Pb. Gaps in knowledge and important research needs are emphasized. Many of the factors discussed play a role in the relative sensitivity of various enzymes in heme biosynthesis to Pb. Disruption of this critical pathway by Pb may result in neuropathologies and accumulation of neurotoxic heme precursors. High-affinity metal-binding proteins have been shown to play a role in mediating Pb inhibition of the octameric Zn-containing enzyme, ALA dehydratase. Knowledge of regional localization in brain and the postnatal ontogeny of the high-affinity metal-binding proteins may be pivotal in understanding Pb neurotoxicity. Other specific examples related to or potentially related to Pb toxicity which are discussed include nucleic acid binding proteins, calmodulin, protein kinase C, and carbonic anhydrase. These proteins will serve as models to understand some basic principles and differences in Pb-protein interactions.

I have no idea whether or not casein is a “high-affinity metal-binding” protein, though. Lead can be passed through mother’s milk, and the lead has been shown to pass on to the baby, so it might be.

__http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1247564/

“”Nursing infants may be exposed to lead from breast milk, but relatively few data exist with which to evaluate and quantify this relationship. This route of exposure constitutes a potential infant hazard from mothers with current ongoing exposure to lead as well as from mothers who have been exposed previously due to the redistribution of cumulative maternal bone lead stores. We studied the relationship between maternal breast milk lead and infant blood lead levels among 255 mother–infant pairs exclusively or partially breast-feeding through 1 month of age in Mexico City. A rigorous, well-validated technique was used to collect, prepare, and analyze the samples of breast milk to minimize the potential for environmental contamination and maximize the percent recovery of lead. Umbilical cord and maternal blood lead were measured at delivery; 1 month after delivery (± 5 days) maternal blood, bone, and breast milk and infant blood lead levels were obtained. Levels of lead at 1 month postpartum were, for breast milk, 0.3–8.0 μg/L (mean ± SD, 1.5 ± 1.2); maternal blood lead, 2.9–29.9 μg/dL (mean ± SD, 9.4 ± 4.5); and infant blood lead, 1.0–23.1 μg/dL (mean ± SD, 5.5 ± 3.0). Infant blood lead at 1 month postpartum was significantly correlated with umbilical cord (Spearman correlation coefficient rS = 0.40, p < 0.0001) and maternal (rS = 0.42, p < 0.0001) blood lead at delivery and with maternal blood (rS = 0.67, p < 0.0001), patella (rS = 0.19, p = 0.004), and breast milk (rS = 0.32, p < 0.0001) lead at 1 month postpartum. Adjusting for cord blood lead, infant weight change, and reported breast-feeding status, a difference of approximately 2 μg/L (ppb; from the midpoint of the lowest quartile to the midpoint of the highest quartile) breast milk lead was associated with a 0.82 μg/dL increase in blood lead for breast-feeding infants at 1 month of age. Breast milk lead accounted for 12% of the variance of infant blood lead levels, whereas maternal blood lead accounted for 30%. Although these levels of lead in breast milk were low, they clearly have a strong influence on infant blood lead levels over and above the influence of maternal blood lead. Additional information on the lead content of dietary alternatives and interactions with other nutritional factors should be considered. However, because human milk is the best and most complete nutritional source for young infants, breast-feeding should be encouraged because the absolute values of the effects are small within this range of lead concentrations.

Interesting finds on raw foods and diet! I will have to do some research on it in the meantime. Thanks again. :)
 
Gandalf, yeah why not :) good idea.

Thanks for the advice. I'm not drinking that much milk anymore as it is so I think a substitute like you mention Gandalf would work nicely. the only time I have milk anymore is with cereal. so I wonder how it would affect the taste.


I listed to a fourth of the Ultra simple diet, at the moment its just not realistic for me go on a full-fledged "diet" considering the fact that my mom buys all the food and I have no money. Maybe in a year or two. I'm really interested in nutrition though. I' m making the changes that I can. less wheat, less dairy etc.



A link between psychopathy and gluten/dairy :O seems a little farfetched but interesting. sorry for distracting with my personal problems. thanks.
 
wetroof said:
Gandalf, yeah why not :) good idea.

Thanks for the advice. I'm not drinking that much milk anymore as it is so I think a substitute like you mention Gandalf would work nicely. the only time I have milk anymore is with cereal. so I wonder how it would affect the taste.

Will be better. ;)
 
Hi zlyja

I wasn't attacking you I hope that was clear.

Some random thoughts.

Food is an interesting subject. So many people have so many problems that are food related. Some because the food is toxic, some becuase we are under stress, and some because the way we run our emotions/ thinking works against us.

There is another factor beyond stress. Energy follows attention.
The power of the mind - the mind is a creator and it can sometimes happen that someone starts with one intolerance (genuine) and then becomes a food intolerance seeker they find that they become increasingly intolerant to more and more things. Somtimes these will be genuine intolerances but in some cases these new intolerances will be created by our powerful subconscious minds = the seeker seeks, the prover provides.

So we can have real reactions to food due to a genuine sensitivity.
We can have reactions to food/ due to emotional toxicity
We can react to food due to psychoneurological reasons - ie, some people have a really bad candida episode after a short period of intense stress or a prolonged period of low level stress.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoneuroimmunology)

And we can self hypnotise , accidentally program our subconscious.

Just some things to consider.
 
I would like to add to this thread a recent discovery in a vitamin catalog (from vitacost.com) I've been regularly receiving.
One of their new line of products is from the brand "Enzymatic Therapy" (website: _http://www.enzymatictherapy.com/).
They had the MegaZyme digestive enzymes as well as one other product that caught my attention.
The product is called "Gluten Defense" (from the website: _http://www.enzymatictherapy.com/Products/Digestion/Gas-and-Bloating/03952-Gluten-Defense.aspx).

Why are gluten and casein a concern?
Because some individuals experience digestive discomfort when they eat foods with these proteins - even when they try to avoid obvious sources:

For some, hidden gluten and casein can be the cause of occasional gas, bloating, and indigestion. However, the right digestive enzymes can make a difference when trying to support a gluten free and casein free lifestyle.†

Why take Gluten Defense™†?
Gluten Defense™† is specifically formulated to defend against hidden gluten†:

Gluten and casein are found where you'd never expect them - salad dressings, cold cuts - even toothpaste! Gluten Defense™† features DPP IV (dipeptidyl peptidase) activity, from a protease enzyme specific to digestion of gluten and casein.†

Gluten Defense™† also includes a complete range of digestive enzymes†:

Competing products only tackle gluten - Gluten Defense™† helps you digest other proteins, fats and carbohydrates as well.†

The product description mentions an enzyme called DPP-4, which supposedly digests gluten and casein. From trawling a few celiac forums while searching for information about DPP-4, some have mentioned taking this supplement (or some similar supplement with DPP-4) when they go out to eat and are expecting to "accidentally" ingest gluten. Some have also mentioned that this supplement should not be treated as a "magic shield" or a license to get on the gluten or casein wagon. It's probably best to treat this supplement more like allergy meds (that sometimes work but more often than not only slightly alleviate symptoms if ever).

I'm still trying to search for info about DPP-4 but, aside from the short description in wikipedia or the few web-md type of websites describing DPP-4 or DPP-4 inhibitors as possible treatments for one type of diabetes, I haven't come across anything else.
 
Didn't think of doing a search of the forum before posting above but DPP-4 (or DPP-IV) has been mentioned before on the forum.
Apologies for the noise. :-[
 
Stevie Argyll said:
I think we must be aware of the ease we could fall into the false logic by using syllogism as basis of proof.

Using Gregory Batesons 'men are grass' example.

Example of this type of connection :
1.) All men are mortal , Socrates is a man therefore Socrates is mortal. (true)
2.) Grass dies , Men die, Men are grass. (false)

In both of the above sentences the conclusions are arrived by following the same logical steps but one statement is true and the other is false, therefore the logical argument used is flawed.

Hi Stevie, I think you might have missed the general point. It's understandable that you missed it, since it hasn't been made explicitly clear, but the idea is that gluten and dairy both cause inflammation in the body. An inflamed body usually also means an inflamed brain, and an inflamed brain can (and often does) result in pathological - or psychopathic - behavior. No one is saying that ingesting gluten and dairy necessarily turns one into an essential psychopath. What is being posited is that the ingestion of gluten and dairy may very well result in physiological reactions, including inflammation, which negatively affect thinking and behavior. There is an enormous amount of documented evidence that what we eat affects our mood/thinking - this discussion is merely an extension of that, so I don't think there is any need to dissect the discussion by 'using syllogism as basis of proof'.
 
anart said:
Stevie Argyll said:
I think we must be aware of the ease we could fall into the false logic by using syllogism as basis of proof.

Using Gregory Batesons 'men are grass' example.

Example of this type of connection :
1.) All men are mortal , Socrates is a man therefore Socrates is mortal. (true)
2.) Grass dies , Men die, Men are grass. (false)

In both of the above sentences the conclusions are arrived by following the same logical steps but one statement is true and the other is false, therefore the logical argument used is flawed.

Hi Stevie, I think you might have missed the general point. It's understandable that you missed it, since it hasn't been made explicitly clear, but the idea is that gluten and dairy both cause inflammation in the body. An inflamed body usually also means an inflamed brain, and an inflamed brain can (and often does) result in pathological - or psychopathic - behavior. No one is saying that ingesting gluten and dairy necessarily turns one into an essential psychopath. What is being posited is that the ingestion of gluten and dairy may very well result in physiological reactions, including inflammation, which negatively affect thinking and behavior. There is an enormous amount of documented evidence that what we eat affects our mood/thinking - this discussion is merely an extension of that, so I don't think there is any need to dissect the discussion by 'using syllogism as basis of proof'.

Hi Anart

I see where you are coming from and I merely wanted to raise a flag here to perhaps prevent hasty conclusions.
If you look at page one of this thread - here is a quote which might suggest this gluten psychopath link is being taken seriously
That's a very interesting idea, zlyja, which makes me wonder if gluten was introduced to the human diet to help facilitate the genetic mutation towards psychopathy.

I dont know how many people who read this and who don't post are incubating a theory gluten -> psychopathy. Therefore posted a 'hold on an think - don't jump to conclusions post' just in case. So in raising my point I tried to do so in respect to posters points and researching - not rubbishing their findings just saying 'hold on there before concluding'
 
I understand, Stevie, and as you become more familiar with the forum, you'll realize that no one rushes to conclusions here - in fact - we deal with working hypotheses - not conclusions, so no worries. :)
 
Michael Martin said:
Didn't think of doing a search of the forum before posting above but DPP-4 (or DPP-IV) has been mentioned before on the forum.
Apologies for the noise. :-[

Sidney Baker also talks about this treatment in Detoxification and Healing. The general gist of it is that the DPP IV supplement does not eliminate the need for a gluten and dairy free diet. It is not that it will help a gluten sensitive person to eat gluten, but it may protect a person if she or he accidentally has gluten in a supplement or a processed food that does not specify its hidden gluten content. More like a psychological relief if that makes any sense.
 
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