question about AIDS, cancer .

Hi Gonzo,

No, I don't see how I was demanding. I was simply asking. I was frustrated and dismayed admittedly, but was just asking and finding ways to express.

As well, I still don't think you realize how this forum operates
Correct and acknowledged

If a drug addict came to the forum in distress, at the end of their rope, begging to be relieved of their addiction but only wanted to discuss mineral supplements, what higher good would be served to accommodate them when their spiritual and psychological well being, not to mention the makeup of their diet are possibly more important?
I asked for something specifically - albeit not clearly or effectively - and was given that which I specifically said I was not seeking. I do not appreciate the assumption that I know not what to ask for, for myself. Equally so, I'm not all that comfortable with the idea that complete strangers know what is best for my higher good. Put simply and bluntly, but without intention to be rude.

You may not be aware of it, but you have come across as demanding, self righteous, arrogant and childish and yet energy is still being afforded you
This kind of thing you have said before. It kinda hurtful, because 1)it is in correct, and 2)you have a desire to focus on this part of your perception of me, rather than seeking to bridge misunderstanding. Your last post incidentally was so far off it was silly, no to mention condescending and bordering on quite rude.

I haven't rejected any gifts. Sorry you read it this way.

Sorry for the short responses but I've grown weary of this tennis game that is taking me from seeking genuine discussion on topics I value.

I wish you well also.



Edited for grammar error
 
If you are interested, you could post a link to your blog.

Many of us have blogs where we post whatever and engage with others in a more familiar, conventional way that is thought-provoking, yet not necessarily confrontational to their sacred cows and such. Perhaps you could do the same, or something similar, while still participating in this particular forum in our particular way?

Diversity can be a good thing, OSIT. Best of both worlds and all of that, or whatever. :)
 
iloveyoghurt said:
Sorry for the short responses but I've grown weary of this tennis game that is taking me from seeking genuine discussion on topics I value.
Yes, so perhaps it was about you all along?

I have to say that in some of your posts, you come off as being unaware and ungrateful for the time and care that I and others have put into this thread. People have put energy into finding and posting information for you only for you turn around and find fault with it. At this point, the only conclusions that I can come to are that what you are really asking for is either a personal c's session as it relates to your specific situation although you state otherwise in the hopes that you appear altruistic. Or attention. When you do not get what you want, you not only get upset but then attempt to gain an ally via flattery or finding someone on the forum who seems to have a situation similar to yours and attempt to tag team. It is manipulative and a form of feeding.

From what has been quoted to you regarding what the c's have to say about cancer, I'd say that it has been answered for the most part (any corrections please). The remaining part, as I understand it, is to be sussed out by the individual.
 
iloveyoghurt - if you are at all interested in what it is this forum focuses on - if you are at all interested in esoteric development, knowing thyself and becoming Real in the Gurdjieffian sense, then it would benefit you greatly to at least attempt to See the fact that others see you much differently than you see yourself.

Others have put great time and energy into trying to communicate with you. You are passive and demanding of others, while showing very little evidence of being willing to actually accept what is offered and look at yourself as the cause of any and all of your issues.

If you are at all interested in sincerely participating on this forum, then please read the following essay and apply it directly to yourself. If you can do that, and get a glimpse of the reality of the situation, then perhaps this has all been worth something.

Mme de Salzmann said:
You will see that in life you receive exactly what you give. Your life is the mirror of what you are. It is in your image. You are passive, blind, demanding. You take all, you accept all, without feeling any obligation. Your attitude toward the world and toward life is the attitude of one who has the right to make demands and to take, who has no need to pay or to earn. You believe that all things are your due, simply because it is you! All your blindness is there! None of this strikes your attention. And yet this is what keeps one world separate from another world.

You have no measure with which to measure yourselves. You live exclusively according to “I like” or “I don’t like,” you have no appreciation except for yourself. You recognize nothing above you—theoretically, logically, perhaps, but actually no. That is why you are demanding and continue to believe that everything is cheap and that you have enough in your pocket to buy everything you like. You recognize nothing above you, either outside yourself or inside. That is why, I repeat, you have no measure and live passively according to your likes and dislikes.

Yes, your “appreciation of yourself” blinds you. It is the biggest obstacle to a new life. You must be able to get over this obstacle, this threshold, before going further. This test divides men into two kinds: the “wheat” and the “chaff.” No matter how intelligent, how gifted, how brilliant a man may be, if he does not change his appreciation of himself, there will be no hope for an inner development, for a work toward self-knowledge, for a true becoming. He will remain such as he is all his life. The first requirement, the first condition, the first test for one who wishes to work on himself is to change his appreciation of himself. He must not imagine, not simply believe or think, but see things in himself which he has never seen before, see them actually. His appreciation will never be able to change as long as he sees nothing in himself. And in order to see, he must learn to see; this is the first initiation of man into self-knowledge.

First of all, he has to know what he must look at. When he knows, he must make efforts, keep his attention, look constantly with persistence. Only through maintaining his attention, and not forgetting to look, one day, perhaps, he will be able to see. If he sees one time he can see a second time, and if that continues he will no longer be able not to see. This is the state to be looked for, it is the aim of our observation; it is from there that the true wish will be born, the irresistible wish to become: from cold we shall become warm, vibrant; we shall be touched by our reality.

Today we have nothing but the illusion of what we are. We think too highly of ourselves. We do not respect ourselves. In order to respect myself, I have to recognize a part in myself which is above the other parts, and my attitude toward this part should bear witness to the respect that I have for it. In this way I shall respect myself. And my relations with others will be governed by the same respect.

You must understand that all the other measures—talent, education, culture, genius—are changing measures, measures of detail. The only exact measure, the only unchanging, objective real measure is the measure of inner vision. I see—I see myself—by this, you have measured. With one higher real part, you have measured another lower part, also real. And this measure, defining by itself the role of each part, will lead you to respect for yourself.

But you will see that it is not easy. And it is not cheap. You must pay dearly. For bad payers, lazy people, parasites, no hope. You must pay, pay a lot, and pay immediately, pay in advance. Pay with yourself. By sincere, conscientious, disinterested efforts. The more you are prepared to pay without economizing, without cheating, without any falsification, the more you will receive. And from that time on you will become acquainted with your nature. And you will see all the tricks, all the dishonesties that your nature resorts to in order to avoid paying hard cash. Because you have to pay with your ready-made theories, with your rooted convictions, with your prejudices, your conventions, your “I like” and “I don’t like.” Without bargaining, honestly, without pretending. Trying “sincerely” to see as you offer your counterfeit money.

Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you believe yourself to be, that you overestimate yourself, in fact that you lie to yourself. That you always lie to yourself every moment, all day, all your life. That this lying rules you to such an extent that you cannot control it any more. You are the prey of lying. You lie, everywhere. Your relations with others—lies. The upbringing you give, the conventions—lies. Your teaching—lies. Your theories, your art—lies. Your social life, your family life—lies. And what you think of yourself—lies also.

But you never stop yourself in what you are doing or in what you are saying because you believe in yourself. You must stop inwardly and observe. Observe without preconceptions, accepting for a time this idea of lying. And if you observe in this way, paying with yourself, without self-pity, giving up all your supposed riches for a moment of reality, perhaps you will suddenly see something you have never before seen in yourself until this day. You will see that you are different from what you think you are. You will see that you are two. One who is not, but takes the place and plays the role of the other. And one who is, yet so weak, so insubstantial, that he no sooner appears than he immediately disappears. He cannot endure lies. The least lie makes him faint away. He does not struggle, he does not resist, he is defeated in advance. Learn to look until you have seen the difference between your two natures, until you have seen the lies, the deception in yourself. When you have seen your two natures, that day, in yourself, the truth will be born.
 
iloveyoghurt said:
Having said that, I am presently rethinking my avenue of exploration, and coming to terms with my limited ability to communicate. I don't think I'm a natural at forum communication. I am considering other avenues for exploration of my ideas, and have them exposed to objective review. I don't seem to fit here, and may be here under incompatible agendas after all. I wonder if this topic might be best explored as a blog...

Anyhow, thanks for the :thup:, I get your meaning ;)


I just came across this session on the forum. I thought it might relate to this, although, i don't know how to quote from one post to the other? :-[
From session 29-November 2001 ---


A: Personal response forums creates psychic linking.


Another confirmation on how important networking is! Grin

edit: mod fixed quotes
 
iloveyoghurt said:
Thanks Blackswan,

thanks a lot. Yes, I see how I come across to others after I read it all. This is the first forum I've engaged in, and I seem to just not be able to get my meaning across clearly. I do find it really new and quite challenging to get my thoughts together and express them, and my attempts at using humour as a buffer, and emotional expression for affect, become interpreted as something other..

I ran out of ideas some pages ago now as to how I could say I am not necessarily looking to discuss diet and health in any more of a clear way. It is understood that my ability to communicate is limited. However, communication is a two way process ;)

Anyway, yes, a blog might be the go. Thanks a lot for your generous efforts!
Have no fear, as you are certainly not alone. ;)
 
Truthseeker, Anart, and Gonzo, you so offtrack with your stabs in the dark. It would be helpful in future to ask and discover more about someone before throwing around advice, and making conclusions based on a superficial interaction such as a forum site. Such confusion is a shame, and it's all terribly off topic and as such, a waste of effort in my opinion.

I would like to thank the members of the Cassiopaean Vigilante Front for such an interesting discussion on cancer, and helping me, and other seekers, to explore the issue from new perspectives :headbash:

Leo, Davey and Bud - you all dudes, thanks for shining your glimmers of light and reason :dance:


:bye:



Ps, thinking of changing my name to Peaceangel to avoid misunderstanding :)
 
If only you could see what others are seeing, your time here might actually lift you. Instead, you are using the energies here to feed your own illusions and do not seem open to look at yourself.

Your shallow attempts to flatter some while offer contempt for others is a transparent attempt to manipulate.

Having seen this happen with others who have come to the board and not found what they were looking for, and instead tried to force their illusions upon others, I know the likelihood of how this will end with you leaving and taking your marbles with you.

I hold hope, however, that you beat the odds, but what you have shown so far demonstrates one who thinks far too highly of their own thinking, unaware that it contains flaws. Your wounded ego and your thoughts align to keep you where you are.

Please look back on what everyone has written without assuming they have an agenda or an emotion behind their words. Most who have been here a while have learned to think and write without emotion running their thoughts, so whatever you are reading into other people's intentions most likely is coming from you. Your filters are what prevent you from seeing what is plainly clear to everyone else.

I can't imagine what more can be said to you to help you see that you cannot see yourself in the light everyone sees you in.

But I hold hope that someone more knowledgeable with better communications abilities can help you.

Regards,
Gonzo
 
Gonzo said:
.

But I hold hope that someone more knowledgeable with better communications abilities can help you.

I don't think that's very likely for the simple reasons you've stated in your post. If a person is not willing to even begin to look at themselves, then there is nothing that can be done. All the words on the planet written as eloquently as possible cannot reach one who will not hear.

Yet, we will continue on the forum as we always do; giving for those who can hear.
 
It always bothers me when someone misunderstands or misinterprets the motives or words of others on this forum and leave while holding their assessment as true.

I have seen it set up before, where the individual intentionally misinterpreted and tried to divide and conquer, flattering those who fell for the ploy and criticizing those who saw through it, ultimately to either leave or be shown the door, and then to post disparaging remarks about the forum on an anti-Cass forum, as if it were their plan all along (most likely it was).

It bothers me tremendously when a lie is allowed to live, be it within myself or another. But I despise a lie that is used to harm others.

I certainly hope ILG is not of such ilk, and this was merely (not to minimize it) a case of blindness and frustration at not having the desired reflection.

Gonzo
 
iloveyoghurt said:
2. I have made it as clear as I can with my limited skill in writing that my focus is not about diet, diagnosing, healing or necessarily even about living. Listen and try to understand this: Everywhere a person with cancer goes, every man, woman, and their dog assumes that this person wants to get well, immediately jumping to diagnose and prescribing of their own remedies for healing the person who is ill. Sometimes, we with illness just want to be seen as humans with a range of thoughts, feeling and things going on in our lives, other than just the illness symptomised in the body. Further to this, please understand that, some of us are not looking to be healed - we have come to terms with the inevitability of death, and know clearly, and even arguably closer than the "well" folks that loosing the body is no big deal. We watch with curiosity and respectful humour, others that are "well", that seem to possibly be projecting their own fears of death onto us, by insisting that we ought to heal the body(!).

I don't know if iloveyoghurt is still around, but the bolded part above stuck out to me as an interesting sentance in light of this conversation on the causes of cancer.

Imagine this as the thought process of a child who was never accepted or validated -- probably at a very young age. This (apparently) trapped anger and resentment in the subconscious mind of iloveyoghurt might have a lot to do with her condition. I believe this is what Laura was trying to point out.
 
I expect the frustration expressed by ILY was triggered by not having expectations met, which in fact had its basis in childhood.

Not having one's needs for attention and/or understanding would certainly do the trick. Well, it sure did for me and my parents weren't narcissists in the strictest of sense but nonetheless certainly created their share of narcissistic wounds; they both suffered from depression and, although highly functional, would sometimes withdraw or act out in anger, and in my father's case, live intellectually, burying his emotions until they exploded outward as angry frustration.

Even still, when I feel people are misunderstanding me, I feel the frustration of a child to whom the parents aren't paying close enough attention.

I identified with ILY's frustration but was able to channel it away from my thoughts (a skill I'm slowly learning). Of course, another part of me wanted to calm ILY down, as I was being affected by the negative energy.

I am always impressed at how the universe provides such wonderful mirrors in everyone around us. We truly are connected in more ways than we can imagine, OSIT.

I should say though, that I have noticed a common pattern among some people who come here and how they receive comments from members, adding all sorts of negative intent behind their posts.

Since most of us are at various stages in the Work and most new comers aren't, I worry the gap between us is growing and becoming harder to bridge.

Obviously most uninitiated expect certain social games to be played and are taken aback when they aren't. As a result of social programming, if they don't see the "be nice" program playing, they immediately assume another game is afoot instead of the reality that we strive to remove such game play from our repertoire and therefore the likelihood of such games being played it considerably low compared to other forums.

Gonzo
 
I can empathize with iloveyoghurt's frustration as well. I have read all his/her posts, especially the ones in this thread. I see the reasons for the frustration. I also feel how painful and frustrating it can be when you can't help someone for a variety of reasons.

I get a feeling similar to what I would feel if I found out someone was on their deathbed, having only a few days to live...only wanting some small talk to ease the passing, but no one would take the time.

Well, that's not the reality of this situation, of course. This is a research forum and place for self-Work. I have no esoteric-related musings to offer on this subject. With regard to this subject, I only want facts and (a) process/procedure(s) to try in the event of dis-ease - similar to what Felipe4 had in mind when he started the topic.

I feel for everyone, but research and posting relevant material and offering emotional support for specific issues on this topic is all I can offer on the thread, OSIT.
 
Bud said:
I can empathize with iloveyoghurt's frustration as well. I have read all his/her posts, especially the ones in this thread. I see the reasons for the frustration. I also feel how painful and frustrating it can be when you can't help someone for a variety of reasons.
Sometimes the help we "think" we want and the help we need are two completely different things. From there, the onus lies with the individual to discern the difference if they are able or have faith enough to trust the process if they can't. :)
 
truth seeker said:
Bud said:
I can empathize with iloveyoghurt's frustration as well. I have read all his/her posts, especially the ones in this thread. I see the reasons for the frustration. I also feel how painful and frustrating it can be when you can't help someone for a variety of reasons.
Sometimes the help we "think" we want and the help we need are two completely different things. From there, the onus lies with the individual to discern the difference if they are able or have faith enough to trust the process if they can't. :)

I can vouch for that. It has been my 'experience' that allowed me to come to a comfortable place of trust here. :)
 
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