Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine

Yes. It is astounding to me how most people in the west, even the vast majority of people that are well informed and generally on the right track on what is going on, keep missing the point in many of their analysis that „the west“ isn‘t the world and that there is about at least half of the planet who thinks and believes radically different things compared to what is spun in the west currently in many different areas. The liking and approval ratings of Putin and what he does is just one of those absolutely striking and very different things compared between „the west“ and that other part of the world.
Exactly.
But it goes further too- I cringe a bit whenever I see people suggest things like that Elizabeth's II passing somehow changes the timeline for the entire planet; this ethnocentrism affects all layers of society too. It is still there in the academic world too, where it manifests as what Harold Roth calls "cognitive imperialism".
 
I've seen it written a number of times that Russia is 'losing the information war'. A few points to consider, though:

(1) the majority of countries in the world did not sanction Russia - despite what was probably incredible pressure from NATO and the US

(2) ongoing positive development of the efforts of the 'alphabet soup' of organizations (BRICS+, SCO, EAEU, BRI, etc.), with Russia as a main player working to develop a new world economic arrangement based on respect for sovereignty and international law

(3) there plenty of press releases - often daily - featuring Zakharova, Lavrov, Igor Kirillov, Vasily Nebenzya, and Putin, etc., etc., wherein objective information about nearly every aspect of Russia's SMO is shared clearly and out in the open with anyone who wishes to learn
(4) Putin's approval rating, most recently was apparently over 80%

(5) to quote the old sheikh, 'the dogs bark, and the caravan keeps moving on'... or in other words, the strategic goals of denazification and demilitarization are continuing forwards with another impressive geopolitical manoeuvre of the inclusion of the 4 new oblasts close at hand - despite what the rabid Western 'analysts' say to their unfortunately brainwashed populations
Taken all together, I would say that Russia is very much winning the information war, in particular in the places where it counts the most - not on Twitter or the front page of the NYT - but on the battlefield, and in the realm of geopolitics/geoeconomics.

Russia, while definitely not perfect, has a long tradition of Operational Art (оперативное искусство), AKA the Russian version of the Art of War. As far as I can tell, Russia has not only maintained this tradition, but upgraded and modernized it to become the foremost military on the planet. On this basis I think we can reasonably assume that the General Staff most likely know what they're doing with regards to the 'information war' - ie., to determine which battles to fight, and which to forego.
I'd like to paint a slightly different picture.

Lets take Africa and South America for example.

Take Africa - China has steadily been growing its sphere of influence in a lot of countries in Africa by donating to infrastructure projects and the like including opening up its borders to citizens of various countries to visit. Its cultural sphere of influence including economic gifts has been winning it hearts and minds. The West however, remains the dominant influence in Africa - hands down. You don't see African immigrants risking life and limb to head to China or Russia but you see them flooding into Europe. In addition there is long standing connection between these 2 parts of the world and US due to historic reasons - slavery, colonialism etc. I haven't seen the footprint Russia has on Africa apart from South Africa being in the BRICs. Let's not get started on the roots between SA and UK and how the two are intertwined as the influence of the UK on SA remains overwhelmingly dominant compared to Russia's influence.

Take South America - again, where does most of the non indigenous population come from historically? Europe - Spain and Portugal. Where are the cultural roots? China hasn't really penetrated that much into south America from what I can see - it very much remains America's back yard. Brazil whilst in the BRICs still remains heavily influenced by Western Europe and America. I think Russia's footprint here may be even less than the one it has in Africa.

I think you'll find lots of people in the so-called global south aren't happy with the West but they feel the closest relationship with it due to the deep influence the West has had on them at the cultural level.

I get the impression that people want Russia to act as a balance but not necessarily to obliterate or destroy the West as an institution. Certainly your average citizen from South America or even Africa would feel more of a connection with the West than with Russia (or even China). At least this remains the case for now.

Russia, to reach the status of China, US, France or UK really has to export more than just gas, oil and wheat. It has to export culture - ultimately this is where the information war is won or lost. OSIT. Heck, even India has more of a cultural influence than Russia.

I'm quite curious to see what a Russian lasting victory will look like. The image in Putin's mind is not readily apparent to me. I accept they are in an existential battle as a nation as the parasitic West won't stop trying to destroy it but I don't see how long lasting and stable victory looks like. How do they achieve victory without making the madman (US) blow up the whole planet. 🤷
 
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Europe wants it both ways..



The European Union is not at war with Russia, but it will continue to support Ukraine in its fight against Moscow, EU foreign policy spokesman Peter Stano said on Wednesday. The statement came hours after Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a partial mobilization of troops.
Speaking at a press conference, Stano was asked whether the EU is in a state of war with Russia, given that earlier Vladimir Putin had claimed that Russia is facing “the entire Western military machine” in Ukraine. The foreign policy spokesman replied in the negative.
“Of course we are not in war with Russia. We are supporting Ukraine’s legitimate, justified fight to defend its people and its territory,” he said, adding that Kiev is protecting not only itself, but also European democratic values.
And then promptly turned around and announced new sanctions – that will totally work this time – in response to Russia announcing it is willing to respect democratic self-determination in four former Ukrainian provinces.
The EU has agreed to slap new sanctions on Russia “as soon as possible” over plans to hold referendums in the Donbass republics and Russian-controlled regions in Ukraine on whether to unite with Russia, the bloc’s foreign policy chief said on Wednesday.
Apparently “European democractic values” mean “anti-democratic values”. But this preemptive refusal to accept the will of the Novorussian people isn’t a surprise, given the way the EU also refused to recognize the will of the Catalonian people.
Unfortunately for the EU, unlike tango, it only takes one to war.
DISCUSS ON SG
Posted on September 22, 2022 by VD
 
listening to James Cleverley's speech nearly finished me of
With being retired I don't have to go out much and mix with people. My family, who have all left home are busy about their daily lives and are vaguely aware of an SMO involving Russia but the subject is never mentioned.

The thought struck me last night that I have not listened to what the MSM and politicians in general are saying for over a year now. I decided to listen to James Cleverly's speech and I can say that I had a very strong feeling of revulsion. The verbosity and lies were jaw dropping but indicative of the propaganda been spread. The willful suppression of the truth by these frontmen must take a toll on their psyche. I just cannot imagine that they don't know recent history vis a vis Russia. He was really presenting a different reality to the one I occupy and I feel there's going to be a collision very soon. That degree of discord in what is real and what is entirely fictional cannot be sustained.
 
What worries me about this community here is that despite far less optimistic info being presented by forum members actually living in Russia/Ukraine, there is this continuing trend of wanting Russia/Putin to be the saviour of the world, just because they seem to be fighting Western imperialists. At the end of the day, they're still just politicians and I bet if you presented these kind of thoughts to people living what you call "the east" and you would explain to them what kind of Cassiopaean concepts you trying to link them to, they'd laugh cynically.
There were quite a few contradictions and plain fuckups, especially in the PR/info war, since February on the Russian side, and it never ceases to amaze me how much some members try to rationalize them away. That is not objectivity, that is wishful thinking.

Russian politicians are not saints, they are politicians. And Russians/Putin are as STS as everyone else who's living in a physical body in this world right now. If you're not emotionally invested in the idea that Putin is the second coming of Christ, then it will not be hard to see it this way.
This kind of thinking is so shalllow that actually doesnt deserve response more than pointing out that its shallow. Shows very linear and 3D mindset. No ofense of course. But the world is not just things thats meets the eye, its much more.

In that sense I see this community to be on the right path, and really have no worries for it.
 
I wrote the same yesterday here.

I can refute the opinion of most here with their illusory delusions about Russia's actions, their "concern for people," etc. Many here are wishful thinking, unfortunately.
I have many, many different thoughts and conjectures, as well as a lot of different information and leaks, but these are huge texts and it is difficult and very long for me to translate everything. It's all in Russian.
I could have a look at your links, but will I learn something?
I hope you are well, take care of yourself, are willing to forgive that not all following this thread have the same background and view on things as you, and have time for something that can uplift you. Do you read romance novels, there is a whole thread about them? But I am digressing, below are some reflections on your post.

At the beginning of the operation, Russia had much money in foreign banks, due to the people in charge at the time, the policies had been enacted assuming the way the world used to work, at least that is what people say.

While the two following sources use different representations, there is no doubt Russia lost access to an enormous sum of money:
From NBC News, there was on March 17, 2022:

Screenshot 2022-09-23 224918.jpg

Notes​

Data on the distribution of funds across countries comes from June 2021, the last time the Bank of Russia published country-specific information. Between June 2021 and January, the assets held by the Central Bank of Russia increased from $585 billion to $630 billion. The location of these additional funds is unknown and omitted from the graphic. All money values are in the U.S. dollar equivalent. Dollar amounts were rounded down to the nearest billion.
Source: “Bank of Russia Foreign Exchange and Gold Asset Management Report”
Graphic: Monica Hersher / NBC News
Here is another report from the Saker from March 16, 2022:
Why there are differences between the two, if it is because they use different sources or one is private and public while the other is public. I don't know, but we have an idea.
What do the RCB reserves consist of:

RCB publishes an annual report on its assets and a weekly one on its volume. It stopped publishing on March 4. As of that date reserves consisted of $643 billion, but the data on the structure go back to June 30, 2021, when it was as follows:

$311 billion: financial instruments by foreign issuers.

$152 billion: cash in foreign deposits.

$132 billion: gold in Russia.

$30 billion: International Monetary Fund.

Thus, 80% of Russia’s reserves are outside of Russia. We’ll explain why later, but first here’s the list of countries as of June 30, 2021:

1663966475725.png
Irrespective of the differences, it's a lot of money. According to the NBC report, the expectation in March was
The devaluation of the ruble will have a cascading series of effects on Russians, said Mark Taylor, a professor and the dean of the business school at Washington University in St. Louis. As the ruble’s value declines, inflation soars.



“The bottom line is that life in Russia is going to become tougher for those citizens over the next few months,” Taylor said. “The prices are going to go sky-high, and the shops are going to start running out of goods.”
Creating misery in Russia, was what the West had in mind, by freezing and confiscating the money. As we have seen in the meantime, it did not develop quite as advertised. Instead, the Euro lost value and the inflation rose "unexpectedly" in the Eurozone. But the money remained frozen.

So now, if they along with the prisoner exchange do some business, I have no problem, and I can also imagine how the elite got involved. Some of them may have the contacts and profit from having them.

For instance, Putin commenting on the lack of grain that went to the poor countries mentioned that about a third of the ships ended up with Turkey, but that was okay with him, as Turkey was the ones facilitating the export. You can say 30 % is a lot, but it is normal under such circumstances. In UA in the nineties, car parking, in a major west Ukrainian city, was expensive and had risen a lot over a short period of time. It was 30 % to the tax office, 30 % to the police, 30 % to the crime cartel and 10 % for the owner working many hours a week.

Therefore, if a similar 30 % went to some VIP, it would be business as usual. Or you can imagine that one rich person had some company from where the Russian government bought a service or some material or support. Part of a deal could then be that the Russian Government buys this and that for such and such price, and will help the rich guy get his money out of the freeze, if he brings it back to Russia, buys stuff Russia needs through his contacts, or pays back a loan or whatever. These are just examples of possibilities.

Regarding the timing and publicity of the POW swap and how it was done. What if the timing was part of the deal for better and worse? We don't know, but those who criticize the swap should know they may very well be used. Put yourselves in first one shoe (Russia) and then another (Mediator), then a third (Other country) and imagine how you would act. Keep shifting back and forth between the roles until you have a hard bargained deal from every position. The opponent of Russia (internal, external) might well have intended not only to get a deal, but also to cause maximum havoc through it.

What you have to say about Russia, well I have not read all your sources, but I know that wars are not always as told on the front page. Here are a few points to consider, but probably they have already been mentioned.

First, Russia, as far as I know, did not promote an RNA vaccine similar to what was forced on the Western countries. If you are not aware, why not read up on the thread about Covid vaccine injuries and Corona. The magnitude of the crime is off the chart if it would be allowed to be discussed. I know the murder rate is higher in Russia, 6-7 ion average per 100,000 compared to 1-3 for many EU countries, but if you factor in what the Governments are doing with their Covid Vax, you would get to a much higher figure. Russia seems to care about people, after all, and about their children and descendant.

Second, the US worked with bioweapon development in Ukraine with support of the Ukrainian government. Not the only government, of course to do so, but definitely one of them, we know that some diseases were experimented with as was their distribution. Russia did not do that, although I am sure they would be able to.

And last we find the same with nuclear weapons, Ukraine supported by the west had that in mind too. And very considerate, NATO guided the UAF to shell the ZNPP, though I guess the for the most part, they just want to terrorize and make it impossible to do anything with the ZNPP, so energy has to be provided from elsewhere and the maintenance becomes a liability. Still, it is a risk to shell a NPP.

The intentions of Vladimir Putin were to avoid or minimize bloodshed among civilians, and I think Russia has lost quite a few soldiers on that account. At this stage however, and thanks to the generous propping up of Ukraine and the UAF as a US/NATO proxy army, Russia is essentially fighting a NATO command, with officers trained by NATO and NATO weapons. Qualitatively, it is a different situation on the ground compared to how it all began.
 
There is mention of the transfer of foreign mercenaries.
Putin thanks them for allowing their transfer to Saudi Arabia.
Maybe they won't be happy to end up there at all.

I'm sure the azov prisoners are just gonna be ecstatic being under the control of Turks and Arabs. You know, the untermeschen, whom they consider sub-human. Also, the Turks and Arabs probably, well possibly anyway, would love to have a justification to give a well-deserved beating to these monsters.
Just speculating;-D
 
They say: "Before they (government) said that they'll never exchange azov and that azovs will be punished etc, but here we go. Strange denazification, I'd say"
My guess is that all those who have been released were made to 'sing' before even being considered for release. That is something that would be unforgivable if they returned to Kiev. Remember the shelling of the prisons that held their own soldiers?
On a deeper level, they may have come to the realisation of their own betrayal by their dear leaders. Imagine what that retribution might entail should they make their way back home. Just sayin'.
 
As I see it here it's not about exchange at all, it's about what Putin said.
Which, as I recall, was to hold them accountable and bring them to justice. Not all justice is meted out with a death sentence.
The Azow battalion should carry the consequences of their action according to previous Russian words.
As I remember, they were captured and held by the DPR/LPR who openly said that they do have death sentences, BUT once they vote themselves into the RF, it is the Russian law that prevails and no death sentence.
Also the main purpose was to wipe out Nazi from UK.
De-nazify. Maybe you don't have to kill someone to do that. Just show them how they have been deceived with lies and promises. For some of them that might be soul crushing on its own; a life sentence in another form.
 
I'd like to paint a slightly different picture.

Lets take Africa and South America for example.

Take Africa - China has steadily been growing its sphere of influence in a lot of countries in Africa by donating to infrastructure projects and the like including opening up its borders to citizens of various countries to visit. Its cultural sphere of influence including economic gifts has been winning it hearts and minds. The West however, remains the dominant influence in Africa - hands down. You don't see African immigrants risking life and limb to head to China or Russia but you see them flooding into Europe. In addition there is long standing connection between these 2 parts of the world and US due to historic reasons - slavery, colonialism etc. I haven't seen the footprint Russia has on Africa apart from South Africa being in the BRICs. Let's not get started on the roots between SA and UK and how the two are intertwined as the influence of the UK on SA remains overwhelmingly dominant compared to Russia's influence.

A lot of African migration to the West is a political weapon designed to destabilize the social integrity of Western states - to soften up the Eurozone for breakdown. As such, I don't think this phenomenon can be provided as evidence for Africa's 'closeness' with the West.



About Russia having 'no footprint' in Africa, that's not true. The situation is new, and different from the Soviet era, but it is developing day to day.

In 2019 was the first Russia-Africa Summit in Sochi. The second is slated for the summer of 2023. In the meantime, Russia has promised to assist Africa in completing the process of decolonization:


And here's a good one from Matthew Ehret featuring 'Lavrov of Arabia' (ahem):


But Africa will be a geopolitical battleground, as per Pepe's most recent take:

The real US agenda in Africa is hegemony

And this piece by Adrew Korybko, which has a link providing information about Russia's 'Democratic Security' package offered to nations facing western-backed hybrid warfare:

Take South America - again, where does most of the non indigenous population come from historically? Europe - Spain and Portugal. Where are the cultural roots? China hasn't really penetrated that much into south America from what I can see - it very much remains America's back yard. Brazil whilst in the BRICs still remains heavily influenced by Western Europe and America. I think Russia's footprint here may be even less than the one it has in Africa.

I think you'll find lots of people in the so-called global south aren't happy with the West but they feel the closest relationship with it due to the deep influence the West has had on them at the cultural level.

Latin America might feel a closer relationship with the West, this is true. However, I think of this 'closeness' in the same way that a battered woman may 'feel close' to her abuser - only because she was trapped in the basement and couldn't escape.

Now there is an alternative, a better way, a new relationship, with potential for growth in many sectors - infrastructure, military-security, technical, agricultural, etc. There have also been increasing friendly signals between Russia and many new Latin American countries, aside from Brazil.

Russia to boost cooperation with Venezuela, including in energy sector, says Putin -- Sott.net


I think we can easily say good ol' Senor Ortega down in Nica has no love for the US, either:


All that said, the abuser doesn't want to let go of his prey that easily.
I get the impression that people want Russia to act as a balance but not necessarily to obliterate or destroy the West as an institution. Certainly your average citizen from South America or even Africa would feel more of a connection with the West than with Russia (or even China). At least this remains the case for now.

Russia, to reach the status of China, US, France or UK really has to export more than just gas, oil and wheat. It has to export culture - ultimately this is where the information war is won or lost. OSIT. Heck, even India has more of a cultural influence than Russia.

Ugh, this talk of Russia needing to 'export culture' is way too weird. Mostly because it's so vague that I have no clue what you mean.

I'm picturing a Russian version of what the West has done? Waves of Orthodox missionaries; mass imposition of blini-and-pelmeni chain restaurants on every street corner; proliferation of vodka; the introduction of bears into every ecosystem?

Joking aside, I'd say that Russia already has been exporting 'culture' of a certain kind. Their chief cultural export, as it appears to me, is respect for local histories, practices, and customs, while seeking to make mutually beneficial agreements. In other words, establishing the foundation for good relationships.

So yeah, culture is the terrain where the information war is won or lost. I get what you're saying. The previous culture was that of rape, pillage and murder, courtesy of the West, then even just basic decency is a huge advantage in the information war.

Just like with people, there might be the ongoing difficulty of establishing trust where in the past there has only been violence, lies, and mayhem. Trauma can create selfishness and short-sightedness. But it can also lead to wisdom and knowing a good thing when you see it. While Russia is not perfect, it looks to me like they're doing quite well so far in the 'information war', broadly construed.
 
Which, as I recall, was to hold them accountable and bring them to justice. Not all justice is meted out with a death sentence.

As I remember, they were captured and held by the DPR/LPR who openly said that they do have death sentences, BUT once they vote themselves into the RF, it is the Russian law that prevails and no death sentence.

De-nazify. Maybe you don't have to kill someone to do that. Just show them how they have been deceived with lies and promises. For some of them that might be soul crushing on its own; a life sentence in another form.
All right, those some logic points that I agree with, but there is one thing that is out of this logic: They don't need to be killed - of course who want to kill someone just like that; they could change their minds and be another men's - everyone here on Earth make mistakes so that's true; but as you say Putin promise his people to bring Azow to justice. If there was official trial and court judgment and after that they were taken part in prisoners exchange than all right, logically Putin make his words true.
 
This kind of thinking is so shalllow that actually doesnt deserve response more than pointing out that its shallow. Shows very linear and 3D mindset. No ofense of course. But the world is not just things thats meets the eye, its much more.

In that sense I see this community to be on the right path, and really have no worries for it.

Yes. I find it very sad to see people who are so invested in their abstract conspiracy thinking that they fail to see goodness and greatness when it stares them in the face, like with Putin. These are often the same people who believe in no-virus theory and other nonsense.

Doesn't mean Putin is all-powerful, all-good and all-knowing, much less the Russians in gemeral. But what hope do we have if we can't even recognize a great soul? It requires being able to see the unseen.
 
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