Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine

Navigating the information about the conflict in Ukraine
We are different as people; we are placed at different locations and access different sources. We each interact with families, friends, colleagues, and more. Thinking about the difficulties of navigating the information available, the challenge seems to be that if we have incorrect information, there are risks. I attempt to explore a couple of the issues that may result from mistaken information. At the end, there are a few areas one could keep in mind in order to improve the situation.

First, a quote about the risk of living in dreams:
A: Those who live in dreams give off the STS signature and allow anchoring of 4D negative energies.

Q: (L) Well, I suppose we know that "living in dreams" is dissociating... Is that correct?

A: Yes

Q: (Joe) It's not just dissociating. "Living in dreams" would also be believing in lies, not taking stock of the facts, and preferring instead an imaginary world.

A: Yes


Q: (Galatea) Not seeing yourself clearly. And others.

(L) Not seeing yourself and others clearly...
(L) I think that people need to know what their weaknesses are, and when they know it, if they find themselves having thoughts along the lines of those weaknesses they tell somebody. It's not good to try to struggle through it on your own. We've seen how many times talking about it is what makes other people aware. It's the group awareness that busts the bubble and blocks the 4D STS abilities to interfere.

(Joe) I would say you can notice it when you find yourself suddenly thinking in a particularly negative way or whatever... a kind of unusual thought pattern that is invasive and persistent...

A: Negative thoughts can be "dreams" too.


Q: (Joe) What they said before was that this kind of fantasyland dreaming about something that isn't objectively true, that seems to allow or anchor some other actual negative energy. So, your dream doesn't necessarily have to be negative.

A: It allows the insertion of what amounts to a feeding tube.

Q: (Andromeda) So basically it's like a wrong use of imagination, whether positive or negative, if you're not anchored in reality. It leaves an opening for something to attach.


(L) Okay, so somebody's dreaming and sending out the STS signal since they're living in la-la land. Then there's the insertion of this feeding tube, and what then happens? What is the mechanism?

A: It can activate subconscious programs and also utilize the connection to enhance physiological processes that excite those in the environment to interact in ways that enhance feeding.


Q: (Joe) Sounds like a feedback loop.

(L) So, say I'm in wishful thinking of some sort. I'm dreaming. Say I'm dreaming about winning the lottery. Or I could be thinking negative thoughts toward somebody. Either way, it's a drain. So I'm in this condition, and that allows an STS feeding tube to be anchored in me, which means basically there's an energetic connection between me and some kind of 4D STS forces. Then if I'm just dreaming or dissociating a little bit, the connection can accelerate that, make it worse. I can feel worse, or believe it harder or stronger. And then that can enhance physiological processes like brain chemistry, hormones, etc. And usually we get triggered to think things because of stuff we're not even always aware of. In the Wave, I used the example of a blue hat. A kid gets exposed to somebody abusive who's wearing a blue hat. They then always go into a state of fear when they see a person in a blue hat, but they don't even realize what's going on. They get triggered and have negative feelings toward that person and the person may be totally innocent and benevolent. But because of the blue-hat programming, the dissociated person acts negatively toward them and thus begins a negative dynamic. The other way would be somebody whose favorite relative always wore checkered shirts. So when they see checkered shirts, they always feel warm and fuzzy and are naturally attracted to the person wearing the checkered shirt, but they don't know why. They may feel very favorable toward a psychopath in a checkered shirt who takes them for everything they have or destroys them emotionally. In both cases, the initial beliefs about the other person or situation has no basis in reality. That could be a subconscious trigger for just the beginning - the opening - of the whole process. And then it will snowball...

(Joe) It's very similar to mind programming and the way people are going off all over the world today.

(L) Yes. People can be programmed to be antagonistic toward each other without even any secret government involvement.
The discussion in the Session has several posts with comments. Doing a search on a key word like "dreams" gave a list, see link. There one finds a post by @Joe to which @luc responded, bringing up a couple of quotes from George Gurdjieff:
"The chief means of happiness in this life is the ability to consider externally always, internally never."
The quote might have been from this post by @Cosmos. Anyway, luc continued:
I think this is really true, I had moments (usually with people close to me) where I could literally feel where they are coming from - not only applying some Work concept, but taking in the whole situation of the other person emotionally and intellectually - , in which my "self" and all the inner narratives and complaints disappeared, and I could act based on other people's needs, their understanding and feelings. These were indeed moments of sheer happiness! What a relief! Unfortunately, the down-side seems to be that there are cycles of depression as well, and when we get into the habit of opening up our eyes and hearts, we just can't run away from them. We have to live through them...

Gurdjieff also said:
Next, the quote luc includes refers back to "the ability to consider externally always, internally never." and gives one example of what Gurdjeff means with internal considering:
"And he 'considers' not only separate persons but society and historically constituted conditions. Everything that displeases such a man seems to him to be unjust, illegal, wrong, and illogical. And the point of departure for his judgment is always that these things can and should be changed. 'Injustice' is one of the words in which very often considering hides itself. When a man has convinced himself that he is indignant with some injustice, then for him to stop considering would mean 'reconciling himself to injustice.'
Social Justice Warriors might be an example of the above. Here is a part of the comment luc gave:
this seems to tie in with external considering as a means to happiness, i.e. not running internal dialogues, not shaking our fist towards the sky etc.
The excerpt is from In Search of the Miraculous, by Ouspensky. The textual context, follows below, and include other kinds of considering that might help to explain Gurdieffs idea:
'After general forms of identification attention must be given to a particular form of identifying, namely identifying with people, which takes the form of 'considering' them.

'There are several different kinds of 'considering.'

'On the most prevalent occasions a man is identified with what others think about him, how they treat him, what attitude they show towards him. He always thinks that people do not value him enough, are not sufficiently polite and courteous. All this torments him, makes him think and suspect and lose an immense amount of energy on guesswork, on suppositions, develops in him a distrustful and hostile attitude towards people. How somebody looked at him, what somebody thought of him, what somebody said of him—all this acquires for him an immense significance.

'And he 'considers' not only separate persons but society and historically constituted conditions. Everything that displeases such a man seems to him to be unjust, illegal, wrong, and illogical. And the point of departure for his judgment is always that these things can and should be changed. 'Injustice' is one of the words in which very often considering hides itself. When a man has convinced himself that he is indignant with some injustice, then for him to stop considering would mean 'reconciling himself to injustice.'

'There are people who are able to consider not only injustice or the failure of others to value them enough but who are able to consider for example the weather. This seems ridiculous but it is a fact. People are able to consider climate, heat, cold, snow, rain; they can be irritated by the weather, be indignant and angry with it. A man can take everything in such a personal way as though everything in the world had been specially arranged in order to give him pleasure or on the contrary to cause him inconvenience or unpleasantness.

'All this and much else besides is merely a form of identification. Such considering is wholly based upon 'requirements.' A man inwardly 're-quires' that everyone should see what a remarkable man he is and that they should constantly give expression to their respect, esteem, and admiration for him, for his intellect, his beauty, his cleverness, his wit, his presence of mind, his originality, and all his other qualities. Requirements in their turn are based on a completely fantastic notion about themselves such as very often occurs with people of very modest appearance. Various writers, actors, musicians, artists, and politicians, for instance, are almost without exception sick people. And what are they suffering from? First of all from an extraordinary' opinion of themselves, then from requirements, and then from considering, that is, being ready and prepared beforehand to take offense at lack of understanding and lack of appreciation.

'There is still another form of considering which can take a great deal of energy from a man. This form starts with a man beginning to think that he is not considering another person enough, that this other person is offended with him for not considering him sufficiently. And he begins to think himself that perhaps he does not think enough about this other, does not pay him enough attention, does not give way to him enough. All this is simply weakness. People are afraid of one another. But this can lead very far. I have seen many such cases. In this way a man can finally lose his balance, if at any time he had any, and begin to perform entirely senseless actions. He gets angry with himself and feels that it is stupid, and he cannot stop, whereas in such cases the whole point is precisely 'not to consider.'

'It is the same case, only perhaps worse, when a man considers that in his opinion he 'ought' to do something when as a matter of fact he ought not to do so at all. 'Ought' and 'ought not' is also a difficult subject, that is, difficult to understand when a man really 'ought' and when he 'ought not.' This can be approached only from the point of view of 'aim.' When a man has an aim he 'ought' to do only what leads towards his aim and he 'ought not' to do anything that hinders him from going towards his aim.

'As I have already said, people very often think that if they begin to struggle with considering within themselves it will make them 'insincere' and they are afraid of this because they think that in this event they will be losing something, losing a part of themselves. In this case the same thing takes place as in attempts to struggle against the outward expression of unpleasant emotions. The sole difference is that in one case a man struggles with the outward expression of emotions and in the other case with an inner manifestation of perhaps the same emotions.

'This fear of losing sincerity is of course self-deception, one of those formulas of lying upon which human weaknesses are based. Man cannot help identifying and considering inwardly and he cannot help expressing his unpleasant emotions, simply because he is weak. Identifying, considering, the expressing of unpleasant emotions, are manifestations of his weakness, his impotence, his inability to control himself. But not wishing to acknowledge this weakness to himself, he calls it 'sincerity' or 'honesty' and he tells himself that he does not want to struggle against sincerity, whereas in fact he is unable to struggle against his weaknesses.

'Sincerity and honesty are in reality something quite different. What a man calls 'sincerity' in this case is in reality simply being unwilling to restrain himself. And deep down inside him a man is aware of this. But he lies to himself when he says that he does not want to lose sincerity.

'So far I have spoken of internal considering. It would be possible to bring forward many more examples. But you must do this yourselves, that is, you must seek these examples in your observations of yourselves and of others.
Becoming aware of internal considering may assist in overcoming weaknesses and knowing ourselves better:
Session 26 October 2015
(L) Okay, any other questions?

(Ennio) Getting back to knowledge and communication... Is there any particular area of knowledge that people should be focusing on?

A: Self knowledge and ones own weaknesses.

Q: (L) I think being really really aware of hyperdimensional forces, as above so below, and how all of those interact, etc.
I think that we've done enough for this evening. I'm tired.

A: Help is on the way! Goodbye.
On the subject of "Help is on the way!", I found a quote in the list from where the first G quote was borrowed. It goes like this:
Hope, when bold, is strength. Hope, with doubt, is cowardice. Hope, with fear, is weakness.
If "Hope when bold is strength", then we can afford to be hopeful. Bringing in other points, it is beneficial to avoid or overcome "living in dreams" as described in the excepts from the Cs, just as it is useful to work with self-knowledge and one's own weaknesses. Maybe such intentions will help us when relating to the information about the conflict in Ukraine.
 
I think we're so saturated with the anti Russia propaganda in the west, in my case UK. Its difficult not to be influenced at some level with regards to what's happening even if your hardened to it.
Every person I talk to now appears to think Russia have lost the battle with the recent withdrawal of troops.
Of course the British news channels are relentless spouting their narrative. Thank god I have this thread to ground myself objectively with what's happening.
It's incredible, cheer leading the ukranian gains, poorly trained Russian soldiers, inferior military equipment,followed by more evidence of Russian massacres, sham referendum, Putin desperate, mass exodus of Russian conscripts, heroic Zelensky, the UN debarcle and listening to James Cleverley's speech nearly finished me of ! it's endless brain washing which really does require a dose of reality. I feel this may be coming soon but who knows.
I probably missed some of the endless lies but I'm sure you get the picture.
I wondered if anyone here could tell me. Obviously after the second world war many Nazis went to the states and I'm sure others were placed in various countries round the world. I know Putin is hated as he hasn't played the globalist game but is some of this Russian hatred a result of what happened in the second world war and the desire for revenge?
Could I also ask if anyone knows how active the Russian airforce is over Ukraine. Have the Ukranians got any western air defence systems that the Russians have to worry about. I suppose I'm so used to the west flattening defenceless countries I expected similar actions from the Russians.
Or do the people in the know here feel Russia have played a waiting game until now but it's gloves off time.
 
Navigating the information about the conflict in Ukraine
We are different as people; we are placed at different locations and access different sources. We each interact with families, friends, colleagues, and more. Thinking about the difficulties of navigating the information available, the challenge seems to be that if we have incorrect information, there are risks. I attempt to explore a couple of the issues that may result from mistaken information. At the end, there are a few areas one could keep in mind in order to improve the situation.

First, a quote about the risk of living in dreams:


The discussion in the Session has several posts with comments. Doing a search on a key word like "dreams" gave a list, see link. There one finds a post by @Joe to which @luc responded, bringing up a couple of quotes from George Gurdjieff:

The quote might have been from this post by @Cosmos. Anyway, luc continued:

Next, the quote luc includes refers back to "the ability to consider externally always, internally never." and gives one example of what Gurdjeff means with internal considering:

Social Justice Warriors might be an example of the above. Here is a part of the comment luc gave:

The excerpt is from In Search of the Miraculous, by Ouspensky. The textual context, follows below, and include other kinds of considering that might help to explain Gurdieffs idea:

Becoming aware of internal considering may assist in overcoming weaknesses and knowing ourselves better:
Session 26 October 2015

On the subject of "Help is on the way!", I found a quote in the list from where the first G quote was borrowed. It goes like this:

If "Hope when bold is strength", then we can afford to be hopeful. Bringing in other points, it is beneficial to avoid or overcome "living in dreams" as described in the excepts from the Cs, just as it is useful to work with self-knowledge and one's own weaknesses. Maybe such intentions will help us when relating to the information about the conflict in Ukraine.
Thank you for your post Thorbiorn. Timely and very helpful.
 
I know Putin is hated as he hasn't played the globalist game but is some of this Russian hatred a result of what happened in the second world war and the desire for revenge?
I'd say it's because of
  • Resources - Russia has natural resources that the West craves
  • Influence - US wants to be the dominant influence in Europe and Russia is a major non-aligned competitor
  • Culture - Russians appear to have a different perspective to America/Western Europe e.g. communism Vs capitalism

Could I also ask if anyone knows how active the Russian airforce is over Ukraine.
I'd hazard a guess by saying that they are active but they don't appear to use there air force the same way US uses its air force.

Have the Ukranians got any western air defence systems that the Russians have to worry about.

Interesting question. I don't know.

How do all the western leaders and celebrities get in and out of Ukraine? Surely there must be security deals and assurances in place. It's a weird war in that regard - at some level it's almost like the players know what the other is doing and they have some agreements in place whilst at levels below this, they are happy to slaughter each other.

Or do the people in the know here feel Russia have played a waiting game until now but it's gloves off time.
I don't know what "gloves off" mean. It feels like Russia won't touch the leadership in Kiev and Zelensky won't be overthrown. Western Ukraine is aligned with EU and US and this war won't change that I don't think. Feels like the war is for Eastern Ukraine.
 
Boris Johnson with a slip of the tongue, praising Vladimir Putin for his inspirational leadership:


If it was indeed a Freudian slip, it reminds me of one session concerning crop circles. The rather abundant crop circles were a sort of potential saving grace given to leadership who were "slated for ultimate destruction". I wonder if in any way it has seeped into any of the leadership there.

Session 13 Feb 2011:
(Andromeda) Why have crop circles suddenly appeared in Indonesia?

A: The wave cometh. Crop circles are a sort of grace offered to those slated for ultimate destruction. Why do you think so many have appeared in England? Those that receive such gifts and do not take their messages into their hearts will damn themselves and their own descendants to oblivion.

Q: (L) Somebody's been offering them grace over the years, and they've rejected it again and again. They get these crazy people to go out there and fake them, make fun of them... I mean, the universe is talking to these people and the farmers go out and mow them down!

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Can you imagine? The universe, the cosmos – fer gawd’s sake - speaks to you and all you're worried about is that your crop got messed up! It is so incredible to even conceive of it. (Ailen) But why mostly in England and not in other countries? (L) Well, they've appeared in other places, but the thing is that it's been mostly assigned to England. England is like the financial center of the world, where all the people came from who have dominated the planet. The whole "Western Civilization" thing... And what did they say? It's a warning to them and their descendants. And where are their descendants? All over the planet!

A: Yes. Exactly!
 
I read the following on a french TG, here's the link to the post + the translation, but no direct references, which is unusal, but the source usually does not make mistakes (almost the biggest french TG channel)

The exchange of foreign mercenaries was the happiest event for the Russian elite, as additional high requirements were set for their release. For example, the partial lifting of bans and freezing of funds from Russian state banks on British accounts - VEB (Shuvalov), SPM-Bank (the Rotenbergs), the "St. Petersburg" and "Peresvet" banks.

Are we talking about the personal accounts of the VEB management? More yes than no. We are waiting for clarification from VEB and other banks on these accounts of several hundred million dollars.

A job well done is half done. A huge prisoner exchange is expected in October. Of course nothing in the media.


FWIW

I wrote the same yesterday here.

I can refute the opinion of most here with their illusory delusions about Russia's actions, their "concern for people," etc. Many here are wishful thinking, unfortunately.
I have many, many different thoughts and conjectures, as well as a lot of different information and leaks, but these are huge texts and it is difficult and very long for me to translate everything. It's all in Russian.
 
I've seen it written a number of times that Russia is 'losing the information war'. A few points to consider, though:

(1) the majority of countries in the world did not sanction Russia - despite what was probably incredible pressure from NATO and the US

(2) ongoing positive development of the efforts of the 'alphabet soup' of organizations (BRICS+, SCO, EAEU, BRI, etc.), with Russia as a main player working to develop a new world economic arrangement based on respect for sovereignty and international law

(3) there plenty of press releases - often daily - featuring Zakharova, Lavrov, Igor Kirillov, Vasily Nebenzya, and Putin, etc., etc., wherein objective information about nearly every aspect of Russia's SMO is shared clearly and out in the open with anyone who wishes to learn
(4) Putin's approval rating, most recently was apparently over 80%

(5) to quote the old sheikh, 'the dogs bark, and the caravan keeps moving on'... or in other words, the strategic goals of denazification and demilitarization are continuing forwards with another impressive geopolitical manoeuvre of the inclusion of the 4 new oblasts close at hand - despite what the rabid Western 'analysts' say to their unfortunately brainwashed populations
Taken all together, I would say that Russia is very much winning the information war, in particular in the places where it counts the most - not on Twitter or the front page of the NYT - but on the battlefield, and in the realm of geopolitics/geoeconomics.

Russia, while definitely not perfect, has a long tradition of Operational Art (оперативное искусство), AKA the Russian version of the Art of War. As far as I can tell, Russia has not only maintained this tradition, but upgraded and modernized it to become the foremost military on the planet. On this basis I think we can reasonably assume that the General Staff most likely know what they're doing with regards to the 'information war' - ie., to determine which battles to fight, and which to forego.
 
I've seen it written a number of times that Russia is 'losing the information war'. A few points to consider, though:

(1) the majority of countries in the world did not sanction Russia - despite what was probably incredible pressure from NATO and the US

(2) ongoing positive development of the efforts of the 'alphabet soup' of organizations (BRICS+, SCO, EAEU, BRI, etc.), with Russia as a main player working to develop a new world economic arrangement based on respect for sovereignty and international law

(3) there plenty of press releases - often daily - featuring Zakharova, Lavrov, Igor Kirillov, Vasily Nebenzya, and Putin, etc., etc., wherein objective information about nearly every aspect of Russia's SMO is shared clearly and out in the open with anyone who wishes to learn
(4) Putin's approval rating, most recently was apparently over 80%

(5) to quote the old sheikh, 'the dogs bark, and the caravan keeps moving on'... or in other words, the strategic goals of denazification and demilitarization are continuing forwards with another impressive geopolitical manoeuvre of the inclusion of the 4 new oblasts close at hand - despite what the rabid Western 'analysts' say to their unfortunately brainwashed populations
Taken all together, I would say that Russia is very much winning the information war, in particular in the places where it counts the most - not on Twitter or the front page of the NYT - but on the battlefield, and in the realm of geopolitics/geoeconomics.

Russia, while definitely not perfect, has a long tradition of Operational Art (оперативное искусство), AKA the Russian version of the Art of War. As far as I can tell, Russia has not only maintained this tradition, but upgraded and modernized it to become the foremost military on the planet. On this basis I think we can reasonably assume that the General Staff most likely know what they're doing with regards to the 'information war' - ie., to determine which battles to fight, and which to forego.

Yes. It is astounding to me how most people in the west, even the vast majority of people that are well informed and generally on the right track on what is going on, keep missing the point in many of their analysis that „the west“ isn‘t the world and that there is about at least half of the planet who thinks and believes radically different things compared to what is spun in the west currently in many different areas. The liking and approval ratings of Putin and what he does is just one of those absolutely striking and very different things compared between „the west“ and that other part of the world.
 
This is what the UN article reads on the topic:

War crimes have been committed in Ukraine, says UN-mandated inquiry​


The video is 1:20 long you can listen to all of it very quickly and never once did the committee say anything about Russian crimes or "Russia did it" Just that they have found evidence of these crimes.

(Remember yesterday Lavrov said Russian has submitted over 3000 complaints of crimes in Ukraine and has never received a response from the UN crime investigation committee)

Here is what the NYT, Reuters, Deutsche welle, associated press, MSN, and others posted as their headline:

U.N. Inquiry Finds Russia Has Committed War Crimes in Ukraine​

By Untv, Via Associated Press•September 23, 2022

In my reading I did find one quote that the committee said these crimes were committed in Russian controlled areas, but they never attributed the crimes to Russian.

"War crimes including rape, torture and confinement of children have been committed in Russia-occupied areas of Ukraine, the head of a UN-mandated investigation body said on Friday."

The crimes: All the horror you could imagine. Victims from age 4 to age 82. As I'm writing this there are videos popping up of outraged Ukrainians digging up mass graves etc.

Just search the topic and you will find much information on this subject. For now, I'm just going to post the NYT/associated press article. Which has the short video clip in it. I guess they thought if they just pre-programed the video watcher with "Russia did it" that they wouldn't notice that the video clip "never said that" I wonder if Russia will even comment on it, as "it was never said"

(Disclaimer: I could not find the whole meeting and everything that was said, so "if" Russian was incriminated somewhere else in the meeting let me know if you find it.)

Article and video below:

 
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What worries me about this community here is that despite far less optimistic info being presented by forum members actually living in Russia/Ukraine, there is this continuing trend of wanting Russia/Putin to be the saviour of the world, just because they seem to be fighting Western imperialists. At the end of the day, they're still just politicians and I bet if you presented these kind of thoughts to people living what you call "the east" and you would explain to them what kind of Cassiopaean concepts you trying to link them to, they'd laugh cynically.
There were quite a few contradictions and plain fuckups, especially in the PR/info war, since February on the Russian side, and it never ceases to amaze me how much some members try to rationalize them away. That is not objectivity, that is wishful thinking.

Russian politicians are not saints, they are politicians. And Russians/Putin are as STS as everyone else who's living in a physical body in this world right now. If you're not emotionally invested in the idea that Putin is the second coming of Christ, then it will not be hard to see it this way.

That was not my intention.
I did not portray anyone as a savior.
 
Yes. It is astounding to me how most people in the west, even the vast majority of people that are well informed and generally on the right track on what is going on, keep missing the point in many of their analysis that „the west“ isn‘t the world and that there is about at least half of the planet who thinks and believes radically different things compared to what is spun in the west currently in many different areas.
Nailed it, that's where 95% of UK population are. Probably 99%.😁
 
I wrote the same yesterday here.

I can refute the opinion of most here with their illusory delusions about Russia's actions, their "concern for people," etc. Many here are wishful thinking, unfortunately.
I have many, many different thoughts and conjectures, as well as a lot of different information and leaks, but these are huge texts and it is difficult and very long for me to translate everything. It's all in Russian.
I'm very curious about your thoughts and information that you have. Is it possible for you to post it here without translation? There are ways to translate things, plus people who know Russian and come here can read it too.
 
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