I have 2 questions for cassiopaeans

Hi all, and thanks for your replies. Bit overwhelming actually - how on earth can I respond...

The thing is, is that, yes, I was responding to Howe as - like I've said - I had experienced it myself and I felt/empathised for Howe; I was seeing that he was equally bemused by the responses he was receiving; I could see the gaps in the communication; Howe and I were one, I had been there and I remembered what it was like. Like Howe, I was on a thread (though not one that I personally began), and it was under "Questions for the Cs". I had questions about cancer but - and I stated as such - I was not asking for people to give me cures. I didn't once ask anyone: "Hi there, just wondering if you could give me some ideas on how to cure cancer." I was looking for other, more esoteric ideas to explore. I was doing this because I am in the process of running support groups for people with cancer and these kind of other question - the ones that "normal" people don't think about - do come up with people with "severe" illnesses, and they are not medical enquires. It was extremely frustrating to get my query out, when what I was getting back was a mix of unrelated all sorts, directions to read the recommended reading material on the assumption that I hadn't, and assessments on my character - with one person telling me that it was service to self to even ask the questions! On a thread/forum that is about asking questions!!


Now, we newbies may not get it right - first up, or even ever, but I wanted to simply communicate clearly, without phaff, my perspective - the frustration and bemusement etc, that it may help to reveal how it is for us, who may not be quite all up with where this forum is coming from. And that others, further experienced/aware - or whatever might remember that once upon a time, they too struggled in their infancy in the material, and use a bit of sensitivity and restraint - for the sake of clear communication and bridging the learning gap.

I still cannot see where I've got it wrong by asking questions to explore (on other thread), and I've received answers that weren't even "on topic". I was even pointed to a link that took me to a "Questions to ask the Cs" thread, but I was already in a sub-menu under "Questions to the Cs". It was utterly confusing to observe what began as great relief to find somewhere to explore the ideas presented in the Cs material and with others, deteriorate to a hodge podge of what kind of amounted to noisy others, pushing their own agenda that were off the initial topic.

That is it for me. I cannot address all the points, there are quite a few, and I can see where some of you are coming from, as well as where I have made mistakes -I can get fiery and come across as hoity toity, I can - also like others here - become a bit zealous when I perceive chaos amongst people that are struggling only to grow, and with this stuff, grappling with some pretty complex concepts, and, in a world were we are constantly being sucked into 3D land, and managing mundane, day to day tasks; it's hard to flip over to these concepts that are relatively abstract.

I cannot go on forever, from here I've decided to take a breather, sit back a bit and lurk around that I may develop better understanding of this forum (as well as read the intros etc that are crucial). It's soooooooo incredibly time consuming!!!!! Unfortunately I'm in over my head, and have bitten off more than I can chew!


:scooter:
 
When I first started here, I also felt that frustration. I basically came to this forum because I was undergoing what's called gang stalking. There were really only two things I wanted to know at that point: What exactly was going on and how I could stop it. In the first response I received was a an article that Laura wrote. I read it and still didn't understand and came back with even more questions. At that point, I was given an older version of the response to the newbies intro. From there, I went off to read and try to make sense of everything.

What you don't see in that exchange is the frustration I had at not having questions answered directly. Believe me, it was there! :lol: What I did recognize from my previous experiences with Zen meditation was that there was a certain flavor that was similar. The not always having questions answered directly but rather be pointed the way to the answers.

It was in reading the suggested texts that made it possible for me to come to some understanding of what was happening. There was much more to it as well in terms of constantly working out theories and reworking as well as testing out what I initially thought was happening versus getting a more objective perspective.

One of the things I learned was that it is two very different things to have an answer given to you versus having to work for it yourself. When the latter is done, it seats the information in a way that I'm not so sure happens when the former is done. There is also the satisfaction that comes in knowing that you worked for something - sort of like working at a job as opposed to being handed money.

In general, we're used to dealing with people in this world in a way that supports being given the answers. Everything for us centers around immediate gratification. Unfortunately this only leads to dependence and slavery. What is done here is an attempt to correct what is wrong in the world. We foster independence of the self by letting people see that they can find the answers for themselves. That they are worthy of this effort to become truly free. It is also a necessary step if one is to begin to think for themselves and become less machine like.

Take some time and think about what's been said. If you want to continue to talk about this, we're here. No worries! :)

edit: Just an afterthought. Perhaps a good way to channel the frustration you feel would be to write an intro. Don't think of this as a bad end but rather the opportunity for a new beginning. This could be a useful way to use anger/frustration towards positive means.
 
Perhaps as an answer concerning all these problems: Everybodys replies (arguments, concerns, ET. All) are all valid answers, but it still doesn't seem to fit well with some of the members of this Forum, their sensitivities, and sometimes combative protective postures. (please lets not single out anyone)...True, you should always read the Newbies section, then the recommended readings, etc. This is the sensible and educated way to go. On the other hand , what if definite questions are asked out of desperation, or even curiosity from people just looking for information about this Forum?...Perhaps the answer could be a sort of School system based on how other theosophy's are taught. These lessons could be either in the DOT CONNECTOR mag.,or the SOTT newsletter on the internet, or even a special thread...Could go something like Beginners=1D Intermediate=2D Advanced=3D and so forth. Model this after a Catechism or School manual. People coming to the Forum from other Religions or ways of life could see this as a way of learning what the Forum and the Cassiopeon Experiment is all about I realize it would be allot of work and I'm not sure the group would want to take this on, but it might really be worth it. Any good ideas to get this Forum to as many people possible, as our future and theirs depends upon it. As the Cs say "All is Lessons" PS: We have got to understand That the sensitivities of certain areas of this globe are not tuned to the same vibes as the members of this group. also that there is not that much time to do all we want to do, so remember that STO is what it says it is "Service to Others" Best regards, Roger
 
Thank you all for participating in this thread. Extremely important concepts discussed here. As I see it, in the end we have to discard our nasty reptilian skins (programmes) and grow up/grow into our real selves.
As a Brit I can relate to the 'nice programme'. And initially cringed along with others at some comments directed to myself or others. However, it is becoming increasingly clear that real kindness is in straightforward talk - Once I got past the shock I found myself smiling at my own folly and yes, the many-layered programmes.
 
I'm with you on that Roger,

In summary, I found the learning gap really difficult, and still do. It's like when an adult tries to put an "old head on young shoulders", you cannot force a child, empathising is more effective usually, and allows the child to make choices.

I can sense that there is an expectation that I should be at a certain level, and I feel that people often wish to almost condemn me for not being so, however, there are only a certain amount of hours in the day, and we all just do our best with the resources we have.
 
iloveyoghurt said:
I'm with you on that Roger,

In summary, I found the learning gap really difficult, and still do. It's like when an adult tries to put an "old head on young shoulders", you cannot force a child, empathising is more effective usually, and allows the child to make choices.

I can sense that there is an expectation that I should be at a certain level, and I feel that people often wish to almost condemn me for not being so, however, there are only a certain amount of hours in the day, and we all just do our best with the resources we have.
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No one is condemning anyone, iloveyoghurt - certainly not you. What is being asked of you is to read, to listen and to stop demanding that others only speak to you about topics that you define as acceptable.
 
Thanks for your input Anart,

I was just saying that it can feel that way. Indicating that there are a mix of feelings to address when dealing with the knowledge gap between the writer and the forum.

I wasn't saying that I actually was being condemned.
 
Bonjour,

Not taking anyone's side here, but from what I've read on this forum, I've noticed that topics which give the more benefits to everyone are the ones where the initial idea can be thrown up without being completely mixed up by the noisy programs. They make such a mess (!) that it's even impossible to stick to the idea, even if the it could be of great help if developed.

So maybe some would find the debate very frustrating but hey, if we're here on this forum it's part of the game. We wanna play, so let's do our warm ups first, or else the chances of having a silly accident increase a lot.

Then, when it's done (or sometimes WHILE it's done because it often happens along the thread) we can just stick to the very topic. Some people here are able to do that and for this i have much respect. But many of us still can't. No ones to blame though, and i don't think it's a matter of who's the Newbie or the wise man. Both can be tricky. Each time we are mirrored as a machine we have to deal with it in order do go on . Sometimes like someone said the discovery can be funny, sometimes it can be hard to put up with.
If we speak under programs, It doesn't mean our thoughts are not legitimate , but somehow they're a little blurred. May be not funny but that's the Work and when our programs are in a balanced state with our ideas, it just doesn't "work" very well.
 
Hi acaja,
Since this forum is multipurposed, that is to say it deals with both human spiritual, physical and spiritual development and the human environment, it would seem odd to only stick to a given topic if other issues arise.

For example, a person might start a topic as a mechanical response to an emotional impulse. Would it be apropos to only talk about the initiated topic or to deal with the program that prompted it?

While it would be convenient to only discuss along narrow, focused lines, the learning opportunities that result from a network would be largely missed, OSIT.

The very fact that programs/buffers are challenged in the midst of apparently unrelated discussions is one of the things that separate this forum from all the others.

However, for a neophyte to walk into any of our threads where the focus switches from the topic to the poster, I can certainly imagine how confusing it might appear and how the wrong impression can be created.

But I don't think stopping conversations about a poster's intentions or buffers are the solution. I think educating in the purpose and approach would be more apropos, along the lines of how this forum is not a debating society and focuses its energies in the pursuit of objective truth, within and without, exploring any and all avenues.
But the newbie's section does do a good job of explaining this. The problem with that. However, is that browsers/lurkers don't read the newbie info until after they decide to join.

My $0.02,
Gonzo
 
Gonzo said:
However, for a neophyte to walk into any of our threads where the focus switches from the topic to the poster, I can certainly imagine how confusing it might appear and how the wrong impression can be created.

But I don't think stopping conversations about a poster's intentions or buffers are the solution. I think educating in the purpose and approach would be more apropos, along the lines of how this forum is not a debating society and focuses its energies in the pursuit of objective truth, within and without, exploring any and all avenues.
But the newbie's section does do a good job of explaining this. The problem with that. However, is that browsers/lurkers don't read the newbie info until after they decide to join.

My $0.02,
Gonzo
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Yes Gonzo and I agree with you. Now that I'm fully awake ( in the strict physical term, my last post was around 2 a.m :zzz:), what i meant was : if a newbie comes here with two questions in his mind and in return he gets a feedback on his supposed programs, then he should give this conversation a try because the idea he as in his mind may be connected to these programs. Then sometimes new ideas arise along with larger understanding of oneself or even of the emergence and the consequences of the primer thought.

Like you did for me when I asked questions about time a year ago !
 
I happen to work in web usability, consulting on how to design interfaces to better help users complete whatever task they need to complete. So, I tend to see things from the user's perspective while, at the same time, understand the internal politics and desire to present things a certain way (I'm talking about work, not the forum).

Often there is conflict between the internal desire to communicate information and the user's need to have information presented in a way that matches their abilities and needs.

This forum has the added complexity of housing a growing body of knowledge, a core group that is up to speed on prior knowledge and therefore able to assimilate emerging information, and a constant inflow of new users with varying degrees of knowledge of both fact and misinformation, not to mention the varying degrees of accomplishment in self work.

We could invest more time and resource into orientation, but I don't know how well it would be used. We see many who want to hit the ground running, requesting (and sometimes demanding) quick answers without awareness of the requisite awareness and personal development.

Although I think we could do more, unless I am willing to invest my share of time into providing solutions, I do not expect from others that which I don't expect from myself.

I do hope to leverage some time to propose some ideas but my cup runneth over right now.

Gonzo

(edited to add paragraph break)
 
Do you agree with the concept suggested by Barbara Marciniak? On a 12-helix of DNA and the subsequent reduction of these helices in the human body. On the sexual energy that it is not understood by mankind. On a stronger manifestation of the energy of the Goddess. The appearance of a deeper relationship between man and woman. And indeed about the whole concept of the teachings of the Pleiades as a whole. Please the answer. Sorry ate the wrong wrote.Good luck in the coming year, the rabbit. :flowers:
 
Personally, I see these threads as if they were living structures, much like a bush or dogwood tree, for example.

A seed is planted (topic), the initial conditions are set (first post) and the thread grows and may branch organically, as the life force of all the contributors is added and the original poster continues to participate.

Should the tree be forced to fully grow its trunk to maturity before the branches and leaves are allowed to manifest? Or is it more marvelous to see the structure expand and grow along many different paths simultaneously?

To avoid force and coercion, the act of networking with others is always an experiment in communication, OSIT. If one thinks he has planted a tree and finds that the trunk (original line of inquiry) doesn't develop because it is a bush, or that no one wants to contribute their life force to it, then one doesn't whine about it, one chooses another seed, adjusts the initial conditions, or pays attention to the environmental clues (feedback), or all of the above.

That's what I've learned so far. :)
 
This is a great thread--thanks to all who contributed. It reminds me of many hard lessons that I have learned and, more important, reminds me that those are just the outer layer and that there are many more humbling and painful lessons to come. Most of all it reminds me that "I don't know what I don't know."

Bud wrote
How do you tell someone who is interpreting/distorting everything through their perceptual filters, that what they are doing (interpreting/distorting everything through their perceptual filters) is the very thing that is causing them their problem - because everything is being interpreted/distorted through their perceptual filters.

What typically follows from your attempt to explain (and you can see it in the response that follows your attempt) is that the person will interpret/distort THAT through their perceptual filters and will then accuse you of having accused them of being morally inferior, or "bad" human beings in their own childish language.
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Gonzo said
We know one cannot think about the way one thinks with the way one thinks.
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Another way to put this message is “We don’t know what we don’t know.”

In order to hear and see the wise messages on this thread we must first make that shift of perspective to get outside of ourselves (out of functioning solely from our ego/predator mind, small i , false socially constructed identities) and accept, on an emotional level as well as intellectual, that most of what we have learned and think we know lacks objective truth.

This is painfully difficult for new members, and for more experienced members because making that shift from functioning with what we think we know to seeing a more objective reality does not just happen once—it cycles around and around as we come up against more fixed layers of resistance (programmed behaviors and beliefs, sacred cows, ego attachments etc.) It feels like a never-ending struggle to be free.

To make this shift to a more objective view of ourselves, and therefore the world, we first need to wake up enough to admit to ourselves and others, like the members on the forum and elsewhere, that we may be wrong about almost everything and that there is an objective reality out there worth finding.

Next we have to be willing to pursue this truth where ever the path leads us, especially when it takes us to places that feel bad.

We have to remain honest with ourselves along the way when the learning is painfully personal and attacks what we feel/perceive to be ourselves but is, in truth, an attack on the false persona—the puppet-master of our real “I.” The ego/predator mind will use all your fears and negative emotions to keep from being unseated from its place of control. It is powerful, crafty, devious and will tell you anything to stay in power.

An important defense is to recognize that when you are experiencing these strong negative emotions they are often red flags indicating the predator mind is in charge, and then be willing to feel the emotions without reacting with them. Observe them and ask where they are coming from; analyze what the fear is about, and what is the message.

When we find ourselves making a defense and explaining ourselves, it is often the ego/predator rationalizing and manipulating to stay in power. If we can pause for a moment and remember that our true selves are something more, and humble our egos, and be willing to accept that we might learn something if we stop struggling to hold on to a part of our false self, then we may hear the loving messages that we first perceived to be criticism and harsh teaching.

I keep having these experiences over and over in all areas of my life, not just on the forum, that help me do The Work. For example, last spring at a riding clinic the instructor pointed out something to do with my horse’s behavior and I began to immediately object and defend my technique, because I had been riding for 47 years and just knew it was my horse’s problem and not something I was doing, when a friend (who has not been into horses as long as I have) leaned over and whispered kindly but firmly, “be still and maybe you will learn something.” My first reaction was huffy, wounded pride “who was she to be telling me . . .”, but somewhere inside my true self heard her and I remained quiet, listened, and was amazed, and very grateful, at what I learned. Needing to "be right, thought well of, and do things perfectly" are strong programs in me that I work on whenever I can recognize that they are running. Again, it is usually the painful pricks from being "scratched" that wake me up to what is going on inside and produce any learning that is to be had from the situation.

I often hear my friend’s voice now when those prideful, ego-tainted emotions arise and it helps me to remember that I don’t know everything about anything, and that I can’t learn unless I am WILLING to let go of previous modes of thinking—that I don’t know what I don’t know.
shellycheval

P.S. Bud, I love your analogy of the tree as the form for the threads--very helpful imagery.
 
Al Today said:
howe said:
Is the 7Density the end of the road, and there is no road upwards except down. Is there nothing else in existence except this 1level to 7Density? Do you understand what I have said?
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Perhaps... You have dreams? Maybe we are dreams and at the end of the dream we go "home", to the "dreamer". There is no beginning. There is no end. There is no I, no You. We only think, perceive what we can here. Being here in 3D, I have no ability to even conceive the nature of the truth. I only know what I think that for "now" we live, as those in our dreams do.
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Perhaps it's our current 3D linear thinking that does it, but I have often pondered on this too, what would be beyond the all encompassing 7th level, are there others, perhaps like atoms in a way, and then you can build on that to come to an ever greater level 7 which our level 7 is 'an atom' of?

In a related note, I have often pictured our levels 1 through 6 as a 'whirlpool' with increased solidity in the middle (at level 1) decreasing in solidity as it 'moves out' in all directions to blend into the ocean that is 7D, and that 7D possibly has more 'experience whirlpools' such as this within it's infinite 'body' of energy? These other 'whirlpools' being levels of density experience vastly different from ours, also for the creator to experience different 'scenarios' and creations, one possible clue might be when I remember reading in "Bringers of the Dawn" where it was mentioned that in our 1-6D creation everything is connected with everything else, but there are creations where everything is independent of one another.

As for dreams, perhaps the character of Jim Graham in the movie Empire of the Sun said it best about God: " Perhaps He's our dream... and we're His. "
 
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