finding partners...

Anamarija

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Ok, I like to talk practical, that's way I have better understanding. :/

From what you (Gurdjieff) saying, my programs has chosen my partner, profession, hobbies, place for living and everything else. My opinion that my acts in the past lead me to this future is wrong.

But where is my development, how can I realize did I past my lessons and understand meaning of them if I cannot see reflection of that on my life? :huh:
 

Keyhole

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Dakota said:
Ok, I like to talk practical, that's way I have better understanding. :/

My opinion that my acts in the past lead me to this future is wrong.

Well practically speaking, those acts in the past DID lead you to this future/present. The point I was trying to make was those acts were probably not Conscious acts. From a Work perspective, they were mechanical acts = they just "happened" and you had little control over them.

Dakota said:
But where is my development, how can I realize did I past my lessons and understand meaning of them if I cannot see reflection of that on my life? :huh:
I am not sure I understand what you are saying, sorry if I am not answering your question Dakota.

I think you may be asking: how are you able to reflect on your past lessons and the meaning of those experiences and develop further?

If that is your question then my perspective on this is: Even though we are essentially machines, are not in control of ourselves, and act mechanically most of the time, this does not mean that we are unable to learn our lessons and reflect on our behaviour. It is important that we attempt to reflect upon our lives in order to gain a more objective view of others around us, ourselves and the roots of our own behaviour. The "Big Five" psychology books on the recommended reading list are a good place to start and can provide you with some useful information to begin to work from. They can provide you with knowledge that can enable you to start piecing together aspects of your life, and truly reflecting in an objective way to gain a proper understanding of who you are and why you are the way that you are.

From what the C's say, all is lessons, so each of us has chosen to come here to learn the lessons on our lesson plan. If someone is not Working on themselves, they are still learning lessons while experiencing life here in 3D. Whereas doing the Work is essentially a means of speeding up those lessons. The amount of lessons that may normally take a man 5(?) lifetimes to learn, could be learnt in one lifetime of intensive Work and intentional suffering.

So, in conclusion, mechanical man can still learn lessons in life, however it just takes much longer. When you consciously CHOOSE to learn, things can progress rapidly. Understanding that your whole life has been mechanical is not a barrier, it is a doorway
 

Miss.K

Dagobah Resident
I might be wrong, but I think that becoming conscious is a gradual process, and making conscious choices is a gradual process. So I don't think it is pure coincidence what happens to one until one has fully mastered one self and fully woken up.

I think we have a tendency to think we are more in charge than we really are, and that it is true that we are usually more mechanical than we think, but one don't become awake and fully conscious in one go, so I don't think that we can dismiss any success as coincidence just because we aren't yet at the end of the road.
 

Anamarija

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Keyhole said:
I am not sure I understand what you are saying, sorry if I am not answering your question Dakota.

Ok, maybe I'm trying to understand this like a child. Always thinking that I get prices if I past some lesson ;). Probablly life doesn't work that way. :/

Thank you for your time and effort, and reccomendations about books ;). I still haven't finish, for the first time, Gurdjieff - The fourth way, maybe there is some answers for me.
 

BHelmet

The Living Force
Neil said:
........So here I am, 9 years after the "relationship" still talking about it. I don't know if she was a polar opposite, even though she basically passed all of the "tests." We did have our differences, though as I've gotten older I have come more around to her way of thinking on many things. The main reason is, I had done almost no work on myself at that time, I was not even familiar with most of the concepts. It could've really been a case of hormones gone wild, perhaps with 4D STS keeping me entertained with some "experiences" in order to lure me into a trap. If she was a polar opposite, I wasn't ready anyway and it probably would've ended badly.

So at the end of the day, it looks like the 4th Way is the crucial tool for accomplishing anything. I think Luke's description of it is pretty much on the money. As Redfox astutely saw, it's time to stop running from the "bad feelings."

Thanks for your candor in sharing your story. That explains a lot if not all.

The funny thing about the process seems to be that there is this uncertainty. Was she really 'it'? Is all hope for this singular relationship lost? Or am I just being jacked around by the general law, 4D STS manipulation etc. This seems to be a theme for many of the experiences shared by all those (me included) who suspect that it seems like we had this brush with fate and at some point swung at the pitch and just fouled it off or missed completely, to use the baseball analogy.

Sigh... No words of wisdom here.
 

Cleo

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Thought I'd chime in on this topic as the other week, I read a chapter called 'The Dynamics of Intimate Relationships' from the book 'Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life-How to Finally, Really Grow Up' by James Hollis (A Jungian Analyst). Title of the book probably sounds kinda self-helpish. Anyway, he discusses projection and transference in intimate relationships and that what is projected or transferred the most is the intrapsychic imago. He states this imago or highly charged image is most likely derived by our experiences with parents or primary caretakers, although healing and traumatic experiences shape it as well. Found the chapter to be helpful, especially since I'm currently experiencing what I believe is some form of projection/transference towards a friend whom I'm attracted to. Trying to figure it out, why I am as preoccupied as I am by the idea of them and our connection at times. I noticed this especially after being around them in person recently to catch up. Recommend this chapter, for those interested.
 

Menna

The Living Force
But where is my development, how can I realize did I past my lessons and understand meaning of them if I cannot see reflection of that on my life?

You have to learn how to do this. Learn how to reflect and recognize meaning - meaning is a personal thing IMO.
 

Miss.K

Dagobah Resident
Dakota said:
Ok, maybe I'm trying to understand this like a child. Always thinking that I get prices if I past some lesson ;). Probablly life doesn't work that way. :/

Well I think that life do work that way. If one plays guitar, and practice a lot, one gets good at playing guitar, if one don't practice, one don't get good at playing guitar. And so it is with everything else.
I have tried several times that after having gone through work on self, that has cleared out unhealthy psychological patterns, or given spiritual insights, then having gotten bonuses like good people around me, or chances of a better income coming out of the blue.

But having said that, it has also happened that life has gotten more difficult sometimes. I have a feeling that it is the "automatic 4D STS control system" that sometimes increases trouble when one is on a path to getting to a place where one could possibly be problematic for them in the future, and I even suspect that sometimes that system uses carrots instead of sticks (like a seemingly very good job offer that gives money, but the boss is a psychopath, and it takes long to recover)

So all in all the conclusion I have made is that, yes, who I am and what I see, matters a lot in terms of bonuses, but that don't mean that I can necessarily count on, that if I have it good, that it means I've been good, or if I have it bad, it means I've been bad. Sometimes it does, sometimes it is reversed. And it should always be remembered that a lot of very bad people have it very good.

I think that it is better not to focus too much it, because it can lead to self glorification, to anticipating, to justifying if one has it bad, that it must be that one is very good and thus a danger to 4D STS, to thinking that one is bad if one has it bad, or all kinds of fantasies that are not helping one towards the aim of being in control of one self.

I find that it is more helpful to focus on observing one self in a detached way, all the time. Not anticipating, and keeping the aim of getting rid of unhealthy patterns and fantasies, and getting all the I's to agree, not thinking about how far I am as it will take the focus back to ego, instead of away from ego, and try to be a decent person.
 

Anamarija

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Thank you for your answers. I will not continued this conversations because in that way looks like I'm here just for asking people to solve my problems. :/
I will try to understand better this confusion in my head through reading books that you recommend, exploring forum and then if I have some questions I will ask. ;)
 

luke wilson

The Living Force
Reading through everyone's experience, I can say I have not encountered a person who fills that polar description. I have come across people that I felt close to and who we had a connection, but it wasn't just 1 person. I'm currently travelling and just met such a person. You know, someone that you just get on with and spend hours exchanging views, in a balanced way. You get close to them and feel an incredible warmth. You learn things about yourself from them and they learn things about themselves from you. Life is truly amazing that such people just make an appearance in your life. But its just one of those where you choose to enjoy the moment, live in the present, even if you know the film demands you go in separate ways. It always happens that way for me and this is why I am skeptical about polar opposites. Because the feeling is not exclusive. There is only 1 girl that I have encountered who consistently made me feel a certain way, but she is not the healthy sort. Dangerous is a more apt description.

So I don't know but I like the whole experience thing. All the richness in life comes from experience.

What I've never had is 'understanding' as miss k put it. Emotional connection yes, I think from a rush of oxytocin. Long enough can generate some residual understanding. But true understanding with a member of the opposite gender, nope. Still proves to be elusive.
 

Miss.K

Dagobah Resident
luke wilson said:
What I've never had is 'understanding' as miss k put it. Emotional connection yes, I think from a rush of oxytocin. Long enough can generate some residual understanding. But true understanding with a member of the opposite gender, nope. Still proves to be elusive.

I don't know if I have true understanding of the opposite sex, or same sex (or anything for that matter), but though there is a difference between women and men, and women and cats, and men and horses etc. There are many similarities too.
To put one self i someones shoes one don't necessarily have to have had the same experience. I have not been in the situation of the kitten I described last, and don't know how it is to be a cat, but I can emphasize with how it feels in that situation.

Can you emphasize with animals? Have you read any books written by a woman about a woman and been able to emphasize?
 

hlat

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Have you lived in many different rentals and have had to go apartment hunting a number of times? If you have, you might have had this experience: after visiting several different prospective rentals, you step into one rental and look around, and you have the feeling or thought hit you very clearly and strongly, that this is the right rental for you. The experience is unambiguous, like comparing a bright sunny day to dark night.

I think finding the right person is a lot like the rental analogy. After dating many different people, one day you finally meet the right person and after a few dates, if you are fortunate, you will just know your search is over.

There is evidence to back up this view in the book Strangers to Ourselves under the heading "Ours is not to reason why" at pages 167-172. What is needed is a wide range of information/experience and then "not to analyze the information in an overly deliberate, conscious manner", although I strongly disagree that we should not make an explicit list. I do think an explicit but very short list of must have and must not have attributes is extremely useful as a defense against blinded chemical attraction. But then let the subconscious or adaptive unconscious send you the message that you have found the one.
 

lainey

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Dakota said:
Keyhole said:
I am not sure I understand what you are saying, sorry if I am not answering your question Dakota.

Ok, maybe I'm trying to understand this like a child. Always thinking that I get prices if I past some lesson ;). Probablly life doesn't work that way. :/
As the C's have said, "The reward for learning the lesson is learning the lesson."
;)
 

Anamarija

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
lainey said:
Dakota said:
Keyhole said:
I am not sure I understand what you are saying, sorry if I am not answering your question Dakota.

Ok, maybe I'm trying to understand this like a child. Always thinking that I get prices if I past some lesson ;). Probablly life doesn't work that way. :/
As the C's have said, "The reward for learning the lesson is learning the lesson."
;)
But if your better choices (because of knowledge) brings you new reality that could also be reward, right? ;)
 
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