finding partners...

[lainey]

If your thought was 'he watches porn' you are about 80% right or a similarly high number with the young male demographic with access to technology nowadays... I'm sadly no different! Basically saying there was no miracle I was going to grow up in this day and age without coming across this and when the inevitable happened, there was very little chance that I wasn't going to be addicted. So, in that way, I like to think of the whole ordeal as entirely normal. Normal albeit a victim of exploitation by forces that took advantage of our natural wiring.

Uhmm, yeah, I watched the videos, read the articles, read the forums, read individual accounts, read about addiction in the brain, reward circuitry in the brain and such... Still no luck. Its the gradual descent, not the overnight miracle for me. If any new ways are out there, I'm all ears. I'm just glad I'm on the slope downwards, maybe its a sign im getting old... Youthful days will soon be but a memory.

I think that sometimes there are just things that we need to "get out of our system" until we decide whether or not they are something we want to continue.
This episode of the Health and Wellness show has come in a timely fashion for this subject and the thread may be useful:
The Health and Wellness Show - 21 Aug 2015 - Addictive behaviors
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,39350.0.html

 

[patty2292]

If your thought was 'he watches porn' you are about 80% right or a similarly high number with the young male demographic with access to technology nowadays... I'm sadly no different! Basically saying there was no miracle I was going to grow up in this day and age without coming across this and when the inevitable happened, there was very little chance that I wasn't going to be addicted. So, in that way, I like to think of the whole ordeal as entirely normal. Normal albeit a victim of exploitation by forces that took advantage of our natural wiring.

Uhmm, yeah, I watched the videos, read the articles, read the forums, read individual accounts, read about addiction in the brain, reward circuitry in the brain and such... Still no luck. Its the gradual descent, not the overnight miracle for me. If any new ways are out there, I'm all ears. I'm just glad I'm on the slope downwards, maybe its a sign im getting old... Youthful days will soon be but a memory.

Its perfectly 'normal' for males to have had this upbringing in regard's to pornography. And i agree, it is something that really took advantage of the natural wiring. So its okay to be in the situation that you are in, in regards to that specific matter. But its just not something we want to be involved in anymore, especially when you can see the whole plot for what it is. And with all the videos, articles, forum's posts etc, it should give you the ammo to arm yourself with with the reasons of not being involved in that charade any longer.

With regards to the ''Still no luck'', im curious of what you meant by this? There is no miracle way to stop these urges. And there certainly is nothing you can read or watch that will make our natural wiring change. This takes conscious awareness and effort.

Nowadays, I watch it every now and again, haphazardly, mostly when I'm bored and sometimes if I feel a really strong push from the brain, usually when both combine. Currently, I haven't seen it in 3 weeks or so... I'll be honest and say I don't really feel guilty about it nowadays especially given the frequency is drastically less than before.

This strong rush from the brain, is a very VERY strong trigger that is very easily noticed. And it does arise when you are bored alot of the time. Because it gets us high!! It hits you like a ton of bricks. Not feeling guilty about this part, is a good view on it. Its perfectly normal. But if you comply to its demands, you give up your aim. You slip into this abused wiring and give up your energy to something higher. Next time you see it, jump up and throw yourself in a cold shower or leave the room.

The only reason i mentioned this is because although it is not a huge part of your life, it will have a continually unconscious effect on not only how you see women, but how you see yourself. And if continued, it will keep us in the cycle of competition that nature wants from us.

 

[Corvus]

I can't speak to whether the universe has hit me with the ugly stick in this life or previous lives. I think I'm in the average range of the spectrum, just another person in a sea of a billion people. The media hasn't really bombarded my gender with specific definitions of what it is to be ugly or beautiful, so it's not something that eats away at me inordinately. If anything, the program that my gender faces in terms of projection of "ugliness" or "beauty" is character (in the sense of projecting socially defined masculine attributes)/personality/humour/charm etc. You know inanimate things mostly. If you can project those qualities I suppose as a man you qualify as beautiful, if not then ugly.

If we change the definition to that, then I'm probably ugly and the universe has been bashing me with this stick since forever.

Irony of that is that you are discarding all other women in search of attractive ones while attractive ones will discard you for not having those qualities the society defines as attractive, to give you a feel of those other women that society does not define as attractive. Other thing, to find a women that is "attractive" in society terms and working on itself is like finding a rich men who will enter the Kingdom of heaven, very rare and unimportant. If I may ask you how old are you in general terms(early 20-ties, late 20-ties)?

 

[luke wilson]

Wow, nice Huxley, nicely put! :)

With regards to the ''Still no luck'', im curious of what you meant by this? There is no miracle way to stop these urges. And there certainly is nothing you can read or watch that will make our natural wiring change. This takes conscious awareness and effort.

I just meant that intellectually knowing about it doesn't translate to biologically or emotionally.

You are right, it doesn't really play a big part in my life but it's still there. Only spoke about the subject on behest of Lilyalic as I know it's something I couldn't circumnavigate.

I suppose if I am honest, I'm going to try and say this, but I might fail at it, it's because I can't connect the dots. If I can connect the dots then the whole organism will act as one, my mind, emotions and body.

You slip into this abused wiring and give up your energy to something higher.

What something higher? That's what I don't know. 4D STS? Pfft, they can feed as much as they want... no escaping them. Plus I don't understand what energy it is you are giving up... I've never been able to understand it. I know there is the whole conserving sexual energy thing that taoist's talk about (is that correct?) but honestly, I think that's BS. I for sure think sexual energy is not free energy i.e. don't act like a rabbit or rabid dog but still I don't think it'll like open up gateways to infinity or anything like that... if it can, I'm yet to see this.

Give up my aim? Aim to what? I know we should all have an aim but honestly I don't. If there is anything that I do, that I live, that could be translated as an aim, i.e. "Through my life, how I live, how I act, this is what I can derive as an aim", it's to treat people with respect, keep down emotions that may lead me to act towards people in a way that could injure them or cause them harm or pain and to keep afloat of what's happening i.e. as reported by SOTT. That's pretty much it. The rest I leave to those with more ability.

I don't have anything higher to aim for... what else is there than to just stay afloat? It's hard enough staying afloat!

So I can't connect the dots. If I was to spell out why porn is bad, as I intellectually understand it. It's not exactly something conducive to a healthy society/community based living, it doesn't encourage what is best in us, if anything it's the opposite, it sure as hell isn't a reflection of the true man/woman or woman/man whichever way round you want to look at it, it's a sign of the times and what's wrong with the times. None of these reasons though is strong enough to domino down in an instant to my body/emotions. Instead what I am finding, as I said earlier, is a slow change over time and why the change is even there I don't know. I suppose I just don't have as much time or interest as I used to. Age is descending... There are other more important things to do or deal with but not important enough to completely negate the whole addiction thing yet!

Irony of that is that you are discarding all other women in search of attractive ones while attractive ones will discard you for not having those qualities the society defines as attractive, to give you a feel of those other women that society does not define as attractive. Other thing, to find a women that is "attractive" in society terms and working on itself is like finding a rich men who will enter the Kingdom of heaven, very rare and unimportant. If I may ask you how old are you in general terms(early 20-ties, late 20-ties)?

27! :( Interesting irony indeed... LOL

Ok, we can stop talking about this now. I feel like a jerk.

 

[Buddy]

Ok, we can stop talking about this now. I feel like a jerk.

Wouldn't this be the best time to continue? :)

I'm glad Huxley's reply had an effect on you because what he says is consistent with reams of literature - especially on addiction. I would just add that the typical course of an addiction leads eventually to permanent changes in the septum pellucidum, located in the midline of the brain between the two cerebral hemispheres. According to the studies, it seems once this area changes its structure, future indulgences bring little or no pleasure-satisfaction at all. The point then becomes relieving an urge - a pressure that is felt to be building and needs to be relieved. It's not even about chasing pleasure anymore.

This is the typical life of drug and alcohol addicts after awhile and if pornography is really an addiction, probably it applies as well.

 

[Ruth]

Ok, we can stop talking about this now. I feel like a jerk.

No more than the rest of us, I can assure you!!
You haven't done, or are doing, anything different from what we've done many times over and in different ways. Possibly self sabotaging any chance of a relationship based on anything any deeper than looks? A deliberately created barrier to keep people at a distance? I wonder if men do that more than women? I know they tend to bring baggage from previous relationships into the equation, from previous experience, but if a person had a really 'handy' block in place, maybe they wouldn't have to do that?

It's not often that a person has the opportunity to talk about their life lessons. Sometimes I think that people aren't even aware of them...

Anyway, I was looking at my responses to the thread and it occurred to me that I hadn't really talked about my experiences with the subject, lol finding partners.

It used to be important to me, but I have to say that I've simply given up. The few people I've really had a 'connection' with (and yes, how does one qualify such a thing?), were 'unavailable' to me, mostly because they were already in a 'socially sanctioned' relationship (i.e. marriage), or, according to significant others in their life, I wasn't good enough for them.

When I was meeting men with a desire for a relationship, it was like they were standing there with a clipboard, ticking off 'desirable' traits and I was being 'interviewed' for a job. I call it the 'two dimensional treatment' with one of the most desirable traits being the ability to be completely two dimensional and therefore unchallenging to their emotions and desires. Oh, and it was all about what THEY wanted and nothing to do with what my requirements might be. The desire to do something unexpected like pick something up and throw it at their heads sometimes occurred to me, just to see how they would react if they really saw me? Anyway, I gave that sort of thing up as a bad joke and it was bad, not to mention a boring way to meet people.

In the couple of relationships I've had, I've learned that I'm actually a really strong personality. Lots of people can't handle that. Guys in particular are not all cut out for "Alpha Me".... Ah, yes an appropriate icon:

Females of my acquaintance tend to take the approach: "Why can't you be someone completely different?" And I include members of my family there too. Men that I've been in relationships with, would subconsciously sabotage it, getting me to react and thereby take responsibility for ending the relationship. That took a fair bit of thinking on my part, to figure out, and it has happened a couple of times. Also, these guys who had a tendency to bring their 'baggage' into a relationship. Something like: it was like that with my ex, so it's going to be the same with you. Not much imagination and perhaps not much insight into themselves?

So, you can see why I've given up? I wonder if anyone else has had a similar experience?

 

[mrelectric91]

Obviously lessons in this area are constant, but I've ask this question here before and I'll ask again? Is there anyone male or female who is relatively problem free and dare I say successful in this area of life and could provide some insight?

Like many here my insecurities and programs seem to flare up most when interacting with the opposite sex. I'm a young male, sometimes it feels like I don't deserve to interact with women because I lack status, looks, aggressiveness etc are these blocks based on reality, or are they projections used to mask my lack of self compassion?

 

[Buddy]

Obviously lessons in this area are constant, but I've ask this question here before and I'll ask again? Is there anyone male or female who is relatively problem free and dare I say successful in this area of life and could provide some insight?

Like many here my insecurities and programs seem to flare up most when interacting with the opposite sex. I'm a young male, sometimes it feels like I don't deserve to interact with women because I lack status, looks, aggressiveness etc are these blocks based on reality, or are they projections used to mask my lack of self compassion?

I doubt I'd meet your qualifications for giving advice, but I'd say that if you feel dysfunctional in this area then the blocks are real enough for you and that doesn't mean they can't also be projections. Do you have a clue what might be a source for this 'undeserving' sense? Who told you you must have those qualities in some amount before interacting with women?

 

[mrelectric91]

Obviously lessons in this area are constant, but I've ask this question here before and I'll ask again? Is there anyone male or female who is relatively problem free and dare I say successful in this area of life and could provide some insight?

Like many here my insecurities and programs seem to flare up most when interacting with the opposite sex. I'm a young male, sometimes it feels like I don't deserve to interact with women because I lack status, looks, aggressiveness etc are these blocks based on reality, or are they projections used to mask my lack of self compassion?

I doubt I'd meet your qualifications for giving advice, but I'd say that if you feel dysfunctional in this area then the blocks are real enough for you and that doesn't mean they can't also be projections. Do you have a clue what might be a source for this 'undeserving' sense? Who told you you must have those qualities in some amount before interacting with women?

I think the source for being 'undeserving' is to have only experienced rejection any time I try to get close to someone, I feel like there is always a shield I have to break through to merely become an acquaintance. Essentially powerlessness, its not in my hands whether or not I will experience intimacy.

Well I am 23 born and raised in an inner city, so I can only speak from my context. I grew up in a violent household and violent part of town, so I saw the decisions my own mothers, sisters and cousins(I was raised around women) made at home and they weren't encouraging a pattern of aggressive men and abusiveness, they always told me to not be like that but those guys are not exactly repelling anyone. I had childhood friends who started getting involved in drugs and gangs and are still involved to this day and they were treated like saints, anywhere they go immediate respect. I think the lines between fear and love become blurred if you spend enough time around people like this. I'm not complaining I just feel unless I have those things/traits, ones presence is tolerated rather than welcomed at least in my environment.

 

[patty2292]

Wow, nice Huxley, nicely put! :)

With regards to the ''Still no luck'', im curious of what you meant by this? There is no miracle way to stop these urges. And there certainly is nothing you can read or watch that will make our natural wiring change. This takes conscious awareness and effort.

I just meant that intellectually knowing about it doesn't translate to biologically or emotionally.

You are right, it doesn't really play a big part in my life but it's still there. Only spoke about the subject on behest of Lilyalic as I know it's something I couldn't circumnavigate.

I suppose if I am honest, I'm going to try and say this, but I might fail at it, it's because I can't connect the dots. If I can connect the dots then the whole organism will act as one, my mind, emotions and body.

You slip into this abused wiring and give up your energy to something higher.

What something higher? That's what I don't know. 4D STS? Pfft, they can feed as much as they want... no escaping them. Plus I don't understand what energy it is you are giving up... I've never been able to understand it. I know there is the whole conserving sexual energy thing that taoist's talk about (is that correct?) but honestly, I think that's BS. I for sure think sexual energy is not free energy i.e. don't act like a rabbit or rabid dog but still I don't think it'll like open up gateways to infinity or anything like that... if it can, I'm yet to see this.

Well that 4d STS part is really what we believe. I personally do believe something on an etheral level is feeding from this release of emotional and chemical energy. But by something higher, i mean that it is giving in to this repressive ponerology that is all around us. I feel that when i give in to the machine, it feeds this negative cycle that is currently underway... Everytime i eat some gluten, i say yes to something. Something that is not my true self.
In regards to conservation of energy, i have experienced that it is not BS. A whole array of chemicals go awall, and a bunch more go squiffy when we orgasm. This can trigger a whole bunch of problems, from anxiety, depression, cravings, fatigue and many more.
I know the slip ups are in no way representative to some raging rabbit, but with the way the world is; every bit of energy helps.

Give up my aim? Aim to what? I know we should all have an aim but honestly I don't. If there is anything that I do, that I live, that could be translated as an aim, i.e. "Through my life, how I live, how I act, this is what I can derive as an aim", it's to treat people with respect, keep down emotions that may lead me to act towards people in a way that could injure them or cause them harm or pain and to keep afloat of what's happening i.e. as reported by SOTT. That's pretty much it. The rest I leave to those with more ability.

Aim to be a stronger, more mature and wholly good person person. Someone who thrives, not just survives. I understand that currently it is very difficult to just survive, but the bigger aim of this kind of work is to become something more solid, bigger than our current self. This type of subject is something that is directly related to respect of others; both male and female. And it also is directly tied to emotions.
I can only talk from experience, as it has plagued males (and females) of our age for a long time. When you are talking about this competition, and the inability to escape from it, then leaving your body in 'reproduce' mode will not help. We need to scrap this wiring and let it slow down... As it serves us no use in our current situation. It is biology, but our actions can train it a hell of alot.

Obviously lessons in this area are constant, but I've ask this question here before and I'll ask again? Is there anyone male or female who is relatively problem free and dare I say successful in this area of life and could provide some insight?

Like many here my insecurities and programs seem to flare up most when interacting with the opposite sex. I'm a young male, sometimes it feels like I don't deserve to interact with women because I lack status, looks, aggressiveness etc are these blocks based on reality, or are they projections used to mask my lack of self compassion?

Depending on your age, and upbringing mrelectric91, then its pretty much a usual thing we go through. Just one of them messed up lessons and building blocks to go and become more mature. All those traits you mentioned are what the media have installed in us to thing that we are either a good male, or a bad one. Also a life time of rejection and bad experiences make us believe we are not worthy of love. This is where some self compassion will come in.
And if females only like you if you have these traits, it says alot about them... Not you.
Unfortunately we have to learn how to interact with females, and other males on our own. In a respectful and mature manor. Alot of common male interaction from what ive seen, is a aggressive competitive dance... Especially when females are involved.

Its something to really watch for when you next get a chance. Everything from tone of voice, body posture, and even the BS that comes out of our mouth's is a mating dance. I think only when you see it for what it is, and experience in yourself that you sometimes act this way, can you act any differently. But it does make you feel lonely, and have nothing to offer in the sea of competition.

So over time, try to develop traits that you would be proud of to offer a women. Dont go for the short term interactions. But in the mean time, try not to hate on the way it is. As its just the way the world turns. So the only advice i can give, is try not to be involved in the dance. Its something very positive to struggle against.

 

[luke wilson]

Huxley, I have a tough question for you... :D

So I'm assuming you've overcome this porn problem (don't have to answer, just stating my assumption). Do you think if you were single, it wouldn't be a problem? (given that you've now overcome it)

Mrelectric, I wouldn't say you are projecting. If this is what you've deciphered through observation and experience, then i say it applies. I wouldn't say its with a lack of self compassion.

By status, i assume you mean you aren't dripping money or social popularity at least compared to these people you are weighing yourself against? If the reality is true, then that's just acknowledging what's true. Looks is a tough one because women have a tendency to overlook it if you tick other boxes (from what I've seen!). By aggression, if you aren't aggressive, then again just acknowledgement of reality. The thing is, i think its not those qualities that are your problem. I can bet you that anyone you've seen who you would classify as not having any of those problems had 1 thing in common. They may not all have had status, looks, aggression but what they most probably had in common was confidence.

Across all contexts, in the inner city, outer city, different countries etc, confidence tramps everything else. Confidence and being self assured. Its hard to have these qualities if you don't have any of the stuff you said, (aggression can come in many forms, not necessarily physical, you can have people with aggressive personalities in terms of not being shy or reserved etc). Anyways, this is what I've deciphered.

But anyways, I would say it probably wouldn't hurt to build a close bond with someone at your level who is looking to overcome some of the obstacles you are facing.

A) You'll feel less of a burden through sharing and building camaraderie
B) Failing and being rejected can turn into a fun game and therefore it wont carry the same shock it does now
C) You'll stop seeing each interaction with a girl as a reflection of your value as a person.
D) You will learn from each other.
E) You wont be alone in facing this.

Linking up is for sure not a bad thing. You just need to find someone where their is mutual understanding, you are both relatively on the same level and where you can have fun together. That's what I'd say. Alternatively, you can fly solo and hope for the best! No right/wrong way...

 

[Corvus]

27! :( Interesting irony indeed... LOL

Ok, we can stop talking about this now. I feel like a jerk.

Nobody s perfect, at least you are honest, give it some time, with time and age that kind of addictions lose their attraction to some people.

 

[luke wilson]

27! :( Interesting irony indeed... LOL

Ok, we can stop talking about this now. I feel like a jerk.

Nobody s perfect, at least you are honest, give it some time, with time and age that kind of addictions lose their attraction to some people.

There is no need not to be honest, not in this environment. Plus I don't want this to have power over me. I think the situation is completely normal and not a statistical anomaly. I also want to heal from it, from the exploitation of my brain by this addiction, so I had to be honest. To be honest, I wouldn't call it an addiction, I would call it exploitation. I never tried any drugs because I was properly educated about it, all the centers were in harmony about it, no one force fed me any drugs when I was essentially defenseless, before I knew what they were.

When it came time to make a choice, I said no. I was also educated about alcohol, I saw how it was, but yeah, I had my first drink at university. It was the culture, it was legal, I fell into the trap of using alcohol as a crutch but I had knowledge about it, didn't become an alcoholic. Porn was different, there was no education, there was no choice, I didn't know what it was, I was defenseless. So yeah, exploitation. I have choices now for sure, but those years before I knew what was happening didn't come at a free price. But now I know and one day it'll happen, this will be in the rear view mirror.

 

[Buddy]

I think the source for being 'undeserving' is to have only experienced rejection any time I try to get close to someone, I feel like there is always a shield I have to break through to merely become an acquaintance. Essentially powerlessness, its not in my hands whether or not I will experience intimacy.

Consider for a moment that intimacy is an earned value and it is a value for that reason - because it has to be earned. Feeling defeated after a rejection may be a sign that you have been caught thinking only about yourself, or giving an appearance of such. It's only rational to understand that people have a right to refuse connection, to reject others on any grounds or no grounds and you might want to consider what you bring to a possible relationship. What value do you have that another could reflect back to you and to see in you what they hold dear?

Well I am 23 born and raised in an inner city, so I can only speak from my context. I grew up in a violent household and violent part of town, so I saw the decisions my own mothers, sisters and cousins(I was raised around women) made at home and they weren't encouraging a pattern of aggressive men and abusiveness, they always told me to not be like that but those guys are not exactly repelling anyone. I had childhood friends who started getting involved in drugs and gangs and are still involved to this day and they were treated like saints, anywhere they go immediate respect. I think the lines between fear and love become blurred if you spend enough time around people like this. I'm not complaining I just feel unless I have those things/traits, ones presence is tolerated rather than welcomed at least in my environment.

In the inner city, it's perhaps unfortunate that there are few or no role models for the kind of interaction you want to have. It appears that your point of view on this is that in order to get the girls, you've got to be like the drug dealers and gang members. That's an option, but it's a dangerous one.

If you want to try a different way than what appears to be open to you, you may have to create the role model yourself. Perhaps act as though you had a son and you were his role model. The problem is that you will have to take things one step, one day at a time. Experimenting, trial and error, paying attention to feedback - just like you've done all your life so far. 23 years are invested to get you where you're at now, and change isn't likely to happen overnight. You'll need to start slowly and tentatively, getting to know yourself deep down, putting yourself out there and experiencing small successes at a time to give your brain time to rewire new, successful interaction patterns. This way, you may retain some confidence when or if you get rejected at some point.

If you know who you are and what you stand for and that it's all good, then you might start thinking of people who reject you as simply screening themselves out of your life so you won't have to.

Just some thoughts you should probably take with a grain of salt.

 

[Ruth]

Like many here my insecurities and programs seem to flare up most when interacting with the opposite sex. I'm a young male, sometimes it feels like I don't deserve to interact with women because I lack status, looks, aggressiveness etc are these blocks based on reality, or are they projections used to mask my lack of self compassion?

I think it's an opportunity to look at our programing and this includes a person's upbringing and subconscious urges. So, I guess it effects everyone, male and female alike, and ask ourselves the question: Is our behaviour or thinking a 'barrier' for something else? At least, I see it as an opportunity to ask why something exists... :D