Éiriú-Eolas - Breathing Program

[RedFox]

I noticed that while I have no trouble breathing in through the nose, out through the mouth during the whole EE, when the meditation begins, I feel I struggle to do so because I naturally want to breathe in and out through the nose. So I generally 'fight' this and stay concentrated on my breathing, which is nice in itself, but I feel like I'm not 'entering' into meditation mode, so busy I am with this struggle. Now, when I choose not to 'fight' anymore and breathe out through the nose instead of the mouth, almost immediately, I zone out or I am in a special state I cannot describe (perhaps a meditative state? I'm not sure.

So, what do you think I should do: fight this 'urge' or give in to it?

You could try what I do which is to have my mouth open slightly, breath in and when you breath out press your tongue against the roof of your mouth. This way its not so forced/is more relaxed.
Having said that, perhaps start this way then go with whatever is most comfortable. When I catch myself zoning out my breathing has sometimes changed to in and out through my nose.

I also noticed that when I zone out, it's different now: I used to have no recollection of what was going on, a bit as if I had slept but did not remember my dream. Now, I sort of zone out, but I remember some my thoughts or visions, at least in the first few minutes. Nothing fancy, but it's like I zone out and I have at the same time the recollection of what I thinking about while I'm zoning out. Does that make sense to anyone?

Yup! Several people (myself included) posted about this a few pages back. I'm like you in that I only remember a little and its more half remembered impressions/understandings....where as others have said they are having quite detailed visions they can recall. Most interesting indeed.
My sense of time during these states is also rather interesting....I just remembered being aware of my sense of time changing as I zoned out. I can't really say how, but time seems different somehow.....like my frame of reference changes.
I'm sure it'll get clearer as I go along.

 

[mada85]

When I first started out with the EE program, I did the whole program every day. Very quickly, within the first week even, I started to feel depressed. Further along I had a total breakdown, and I cut out the baha portion, and only did the rest on Mondays/Thursdays. - But it was like an avalanche, I couldn't stop all these emotions. I got a little scared (or very), so I completely stopped the EE program, I didn't even do the POTS for several months.

Recently I feel strong enough again, to start out, but I have to admit, that I'm scared the same will happen again.That it will overwhelm me. I'm doing the POTS now again, and I'm doing some pipebreath everyday, but I feel a little reluctant in starting the whole program again..

The pots, it has totally changed the way I view the universe. I'm grateful in almost everything I experience in everyday life, like when I take a shower, I'm grateful that I'm even able to have hot running water, and everytime I eat, I'm grateful that I even have food. I'm grateful that I have a roof over my head etc. I'm in a constant state of humbleness (if that's a word) and gratitude.

Sooo, I'm back in business, a little reluctant, and a little afraid, but very grateful, that such a powerful program even exists.

Hi Helle - I also had a long(ish) break from EE practice, of about three months. No POTS, not even pipe breathing. Similar to you, when I started the program I was doing the whole EE set every day. I felt that a tidal wave, so to speak, was just around the corner, and I think that is why I had a strong reaction and gave it up for a while. When I started again, I began very slowly with just 12 pipe breaths every morning, and added something else each time I knew I was ready for the next step. In this way I was able to reprogram the machine and build up to regular POTS, pipe breathing and full EE practice.

I also saw much more clearly that networking, especially posting to the forum here, is an amazingly effective tool for helping to deal with problems.

It sounds like you had quite an overwhelming experience, and I think you are doing the right thing by taking it easy and slowly. Tigersoap mentioned that your fear is most probably the predator's mind and with this I agree. But hopefully by taking it more slowly this time you will be able to release things one step at a time.

I wondered where you'd got to! Welcome back :)

 

[mada85]

I wanted to give an update on my EE practice.

A couple of days ago, in my morning POTS session, I heard a very distinct voice in my left ear saying: 'I'll kill you'. This was said with anger in the voice. It was somewhat disturbing, but I noted it and carried on with my breathing. It did not return. I don't know exactly what it was, but I suspect it was an internal program of mine, or even the predator's mind, threatening me. I wondered if it actually came from somewhere outside me, but this I cannot confirm or deny. My left ear hears less well than my right ear.

Yes, I've experienced this as well and think your response was correct.

I agree with Truth Seeker on this. fwiw following discussions earlier in the thread it seems that this program can act as a way of getting rid of spirit attachments (among other things)....so its equally possible that this is what was happening.

Thanks RF for the reminder about spirit attachments. The only thing I've noticed that has changed in me since the 'voice' is that my left ear seems more sensitive to sounds, especially Mozart. Strangely, at about the time I heard the voice, I had ordered a set of Mozart's violin concertos played by Arthur Grumiaux, in which the violin is mostly in the left channel (I listen on headphones), which gives excellent high frequency stimulation to that ear.

 

[mada85]

After work I took a nap even though I didn't intend to. I went into another one of those dream-like states only I was in a small venue hosting an mma fight. I was just an observer and during the entire dream the song was playing in the back of my mind. I tried to wake up a few times but couldn't, and this old man with a lazy eye come up to me and asked me if I wanted a drink. I've seen this old man once before in another half awake/half asleep state. He was oriental, probably japanese. I declined and walked away only to have him give me a 'look'. I don't think he was happy with my answer.

In old (and not so old) fairy stories, and in modern accounts of encounters with 'aliens', the person is often offered something to eat or drink. The old lore was that if one was taken by the fairies one should not eat or drink anything, otherwise one would only return after years had passed in the real world, while only a few hours or days had passed in the fairy world. This perhaps relates to others' idea that the drink in your dream was a kind of anaesthesia for your feeling. To drink it would have meant remaining emotionally numb. Fwiw.

 

[mada85]

I noticed that while I have no trouble breathing in through the nose, out through the mouth during the whole EE, when the meditation begins, I feel I struggle to do so because I naturally want to breathe in and out through the nose. So I generally 'fight' this and stay concentrated on my breathing, which is nice in itself, but I feel like I'm not 'entering' into meditation mode, so busy I am with this struggle. Now, when I choose not to 'fight' anymore and breathe out through the nose instead of the mouth, almost immediately, I zone out or I am in a special state I cannot describe (perhaps a meditative state? I'm not sure.

Recently I have been strongly drawn to breathe out through the mouth all through the EE program, including in the POTS at the end. I began a couple of weeks ago by reciting the POTS in bed before sleep in time with pipe breathing. Before I started POTS this way, I noticed that pipe breathing often took on a life of its own, so to speak, which I understood as the breathing being seated in the moving centre. . It took me a few nights' practice to be able to recite the POTS with the pipe breathing. Now I notice that breathing out through my nose is quite disturbing and when I want to revert to in and out nose breathing, I have to change gears mentally to accommodate it.

I'm not sure anymore what a 'meditative state' is. I used to think I knew. But actually I don't :/

So, what do you think I should do: fight this 'urge' or give in to it?

What is your aim? Do you want to be able to do POTS with nose and mouth breathing? I think it's basically a case of reprogramming your moving centre according to your aim.

 

[manitoban]

After work I took a nap even though I didn't intend to. I went into another one of those dream-like states only I was in a small venue hosting an mma fight. I was just an observer and during the entire dream the song was playing in the back of my mind. I tried to wake up a few times but couldn't, and this old man with a lazy eye come up to me and asked me if I wanted a drink. I've seen this old man once before in another half awake/half asleep state. He was oriental, probably japanese. I declined and walked away only to have him give me a 'look'. I don't think he was happy with my answer.

In old (and not so old) fairy stories, and in modern accounts of encounters with 'aliens', the person is often offered something to eat or drink. The old lore was that if one was taken by the fairies one should not eat or drink anything, otherwise one would only return after years had passed in the real world, while only a few hours or days had passed in the fairy world. This perhaps relates to others' idea that the drink in your dream was a kind of anaesthesia for your feeling. To drink it would have meant remaining emotionally numb. Fwiw.

Yeah, the offer of a drink, and the old man's displeasure at your refusal of his request reminded me of this:

What so many people don't realize is that to respond to a command of any kind, the "bidding," whether it is to pray or build a church or paint a sign on your shield or even to erect a monument by piling three stones on the side of the road, one has accepted domination! One has tacitly agreed to "serve" the one who has made the request or issued the command. A psychic bond is immediately established, and the "dance begins." The tricky part comes in when the requests or "commands" are either couched in terms that make them seem useful or good, or they come by way of pity or manipulation.]

 

[Ollie]

This week I managed to zone out for a considerable period of time on Monday, otherwise, E-Ewise, nothing much to report.

Outside of the sessions, painful reminders, yesterday, Thursday, during the evening and through the night I experienced pain in my left heel. And, on and off during the week a pain in my right knee, no particular pattern, seems to be on the outside, no particular activity induces it.

HEEL PAIN
PHYSICAL BLOCK
… Most knee pain occurs for no apparent reason.
EMOTIONAL BLOCK
Pain in the heel indicates that you want to move in the direction of your goals, but hesitate because you don’t feel sufficiently supported by others. You probably prefer to have the consent of others prior to making a move. You dare not admit to yourself but you need someone on your heels and feel guilty acting without the approval of others. Conversely you suffer from the consequences of being stuck in one spot.
MENTAL BLOCK
Your heel is telling you that you can move forward and lean on yourself when making major decisions. You are the best support you could possibly have. There’s no longer any need for you to hold on to the belief that, in order to prove your love or be loved, others must agree with you. It’s impossible for everyone to agree. If we all had the same opinion on everything, life would be very uneventful. Remember that no one in the world is obliged to support you. The same thing goes for you; you do not always have to support those you love. Accept that you may be helped and supported by others while still moving forward on your own.

bold is my emphasis

This is a bit of a paradox, as I always thought that I was totally independent in my decision making! Proving love, or being loved is interesting, given that I’ve posted elsewhere on my feeling, and perceived experience, of unrequited love. Accepting help is, I guess, related to trusting others – and myself.

Knee – Represents pride and ego.

KNEE PROBLEMS
EMOTIONAL BLOCK
Knee pain … reflects inflexibility in your perception of the future. It occurs more often in those who with an arrogant or stubborn personality, who are unable to bend to others or to the ideas of others. An inflexible attitude keeps you from finding easier ways to face your future and guarantees dis-ease in going forward physically and psychologically.
MENTAL BLOCK
Your body is providing a painful reminder that you are not as flexible as you want to believe. Remember that your body will warn you of things you are not conscious of. You don’t have to fear losing control by bending to the will of others or accepting new ideas. Allow yourself the flexibility to see things from another perspective. You have misinterpreted bending to mean “on your knees in submission.” You may have some latent fear of being too flexible related to one of your parents. Address this and realize that you are distinctly different from either of them and, although the apple amy not fall far from the tree, your life is your own. It doesn’t hurt, however, to be a little flexible and accept some help once in a while from those who care.

bold is my emphasis

Yes, I can be stubborn, and I suppose ‘intellectually’ arrogant. ☺ And, I do have problems in putting into action the way forward, as well as control issues. Yes, I’m probably too flexible towards my aged mother.

A common theme in both ‘pains’ is primarily of accepting help and, secondly, support of others, as well as their ideas.

 

[Aeneas]

I think that you might be answering to my previous question here. There is a difference between anticipating, and feeling and incorporating the prayer's content into one's being. It is a tricky issue. Perhaps it has partly to do with the nature of the wish, combined with how opened one is in the present moment to the content of what he/she is praying.

Well, one thing to consider is "wishing" itself. Here's what Gurdjieff wrote in Life Is Real:

Although for the exact definition of the second of these human
impulses in the contemporary English language there is a word, namely
"wish," it is nevertheless employed by you Americans, as well as by the
English people themselves, only in order to vary, of course
unconsciously, the degree of the expression of that so to say "slavish
impulse" for which there are, particularly in this language, a multitude
of words as, for example, "like," "want," "need," "desire" and so on. ...

When "I wish"—I feel with my whole being that I wish, and can
wish. This does not mean that I want, that I need, that I like or, lastly,
that I desire. No. "I wish." I never like, never want, I do not desire
anything and I do not need anything—all this is slavery; if "I wish"
something, I must like it, even if I do not like it. I can wish to like it,
because "I can."

I wish—I feel with my whole body that I wish.

I wish—because I can wish.

But before one can truly wish (and here I think wish has something to do with having a true will, not a will influenced by programs), one needs knowledge and being. Just like Gurdjieff advised to "remember to self-remember" (because self-remembering isn't possible at first), maybe one must "wish to Wish". How do you do that without anticipation?
...

Well explained I think. It also reminded me of something that happened in my life 10-11 years ago, after which I had no more wishes. Sometimes my wife at the time would say "make a wish", and I just didn't have any. I think that wish in this way was that I didn't want or needed or desired anything, but the quote from Gurdjieff adds another layer to it that I wasn't aware of or could conceive off, but which feels very true. To truly wish because one can. I can see the meaning of what Gurdjieff was saying and which AI was explaining. It has opened a door.

 

[Aeneas]

Hello everybody,

I have been wanting to report for some time, as I started in July 2009 with the EE program. In the beginning I didn't feel like I had much to share or add to what was already being said, so I chose not to post, but in so not doing also denied others the affirmative experience that sharing would given. As the months moved by, I felt it even harder to join in as I felt guilty of not sharing, which just prolonged the time sitting on the fence. This is a pattern that I need to break, as I can see that sharing in a forum is of much value and something I must learn. When Pepperfritz died last year, I thought to myself, that I could be next if I didn't start sharing too, but it felt so hard to write that long overdue email that I knew I owed everyone at the time to write, that I failed in my own eyes. That overdue email was not in regard to EE, but the lesson of sharing is still the same for me. So is a sharing of some of the last years experiences with EE.

In the beginning I did it 3-4 times a week, but then moved to just the Monday and Thursday. The idea of having two days fixed a week helped to keep the discipline there of doing it, for had it been a program to do everyday, then it would be hard to keep the energy up. Apart from a missing a few weeks due to Christmas and other events away from home I have been doing it ever since.

In general it always leaves me very relaxed and in a very meditative feeling. Something that I now enjoy doing. It took several months or rather a good half a year before the resistance to the Baha part was gone. Before it was always something that I knew was needed and part of it, but which felt like hard work. That feeling has gone.

A thing that helped me was doing the translation of the EE videos, which meant reading it closely over and over and having to think about the description that Laura gave of EE. This made me correct the way I was doing the pipe breathing, to get more of the constricted feeling.

I have noticed a that my dreams seems to have changed during the EE program. There has been a couple of what I thought of as past life dreams. One being in the battlefield in the American civil war, and which left me with a profound feeling of the insanity of war when I woke up. Lately a lot more dreams that I remember and where I am taking action in the dreams.

My partner has said that she found that I had changed, that some emotional outburst had disappeared which have been there since childhood and which always are about beating myself up for not being able to do something. I think that program has a lot to do with being the youngest of 4 children and feeling the frustration at a very young age at never quite being able to do what the older siblings were capable of doing.
Apart from that, my partner mentioned also that she had noticed that I have been doing a lot of different things in recent months, instead of procrastinating about it. So as a consequence of what she had noticed she decided a week ago, that she would like to learn it to and start practicing. She started on Sunday for the first time after having watched the videos and have done the whole program with me everyday since. She felt she wanted to start by practicing it everyday for a while, and I have happily joined her in so doing.

 

[Renaissance]

That can be a possibility, Shane. Before i read this final paragraph of your post with your interpretation, i got the impression that you were able to assert yourself in your dreams and get rid of what you didn't need/want to be around you. To me it read that a part of you inside has had enough and was going to draw the line. The question that popped in my head was whether you are currently in a situation in your life where you feel you need to draw the line but haven't yet, or whether it's a manifestation of a need to assert yourself more in general. Your interpretation however, makes sense too.

That is something that's good for me to consider. I often have difficulty asserting myself, whether it's a controlling situation or a simple matter over something I would like. I have recently have in my life new situations that do call for being more assertive. I feel I am making some progress on it, but it takes a lot of effort and I get myself in a bit of a tizzy. It's funny because one of the things that stood out in both dreams was how easy it was to successfully assert myself in a calm way. Perhaps there was a message that it's not the difficulty that I work myself up over. Thanks for the feedback!

A bit related to this, i recently have had repeating dreams where i scream and shout and expressing anger, that i think are the expression of my inner child that didn't have its needs met. A purging of old repressed emotions of sorts.

I have these similar types of dreams too, and one came just the other night. However, it's not anger but a wailing / strenuous crying in the dreams. I had been thinking along the same lines that it could me trying to release emotions and get through the suffocating barriers that I've erected around my inner child.

 

[truth seeker]

Hello everybody,

I have been wanting to report for some time, as I started in July 2009 with the EE program. In the beginning I didn't feel like I had much to share or add to what was already being said, so I chose not to post, but in so not doing also denied others the affirmative experience that sharing would given. As the months moved by, I felt it even harder to join in as I felt guilty of not sharing, which just prolonged the time sitting on the fence. This is a pattern that I need to break, as I can see that sharing in a forum is of much value and something I must learn. When Pepperfritz died last year, I thought to myself, that I could be next if I didn't start sharing too, but it felt so hard to write that long overdue email that I knew I owed everyone at the time to write, that I failed in my own eyes. That overdue email was not in regard to EE, but the lesson of sharing is still the same for me. So is a sharing of some of the last years experiences with EE.

In the beginning I did it 3-4 times a week, but then moved to just the Monday and Thursday. The idea of having two days fixed a week helped to keep the discipline there of doing it, for had it been a program to do everyday, then it would be hard to keep the energy up. Apart from a missing a few weeks due to Christmas and other events away from home I have been doing it ever since.

In general it always leaves me very relaxed and in a very meditative feeling. Something that I now enjoy doing. It took several months or rather a good half a year before the resistance to the Baha part was gone. Before it was always something that I knew was needed and part of it, but which felt like hard work. That feeling has gone.

A thing that helped me was doing the translation of the EE videos, which meant reading it closely over and over and having to think about the description that Laura gave of EE. This made me correct the way I was doing the pipe breathing, to get more of the constricted feeling.

I have noticed a that my dreams seems to have changed during the EE program. There has been a couple of what I thought of as past life dreams. One being in the battlefield in the American civil war, and which left me with a profound feeling of the insanity of war when I woke up. Lately a lot more dreams that I remember and where I am taking action in the dreams.

My partner has said that she found that I had changed, that some emotional outburst had disappeared which have been there since childhood and which always are about beating myself up for not being able to do something. I think that program has a lot to do with being the youngest of 4 children and feeling the frustration at a very young age at never quite being able to do what the older siblings were capable of doing.
Apart from that, my partner mentioned also that she had noticed that I have been doing a lot of different things in recent months, instead of procrastinating about it. So as a consequence of what she had noticed she decided a week ago, that she would like to learn it to and start practicing. She started on Sunday for the first time after having watched the videos and have done the whole program with me everyday since. She felt she wanted to start by practicing it everyday for a while, and I have happily joined her in so doing.

Hey Aeneas,

If you remove the references to Pepperfritz and perhaps the civil war, I think this would make a good entry on the ee site if you haven't done so already. :)

 

[Aeneas]

If you remove the references to Pepperfritz and perhaps the civil war, I think this would make a good entry on the ee site if you haven't done so already. :)

Thanks Truth seeker, I will do that.

 

[Nienna]

If you remove the references to Pepperfritz and perhaps the civil war, I think this would make a good entry on the ee site if you haven't done so already. :)

Thanks Truth seeker, I will do that.

Aeneas, I'm glad that you have finally overcome the reluctance to post of your experiences. And I am equally glad that you are being helped so much by EE and that your partner has seen this difference and wants to try it, too. It goes to show that we can make a huge difference in this world by Working on ourselves. With others noticing the positive changes in ourselves, we can help others to want to be in a better place. And who know where it can go from there.

Keep those butterfly wings flapping. :)

 

[SeekinTruth]

Hi, Aeneas. Thanks for sharing your experiences of EE even though you had to overcome your resistance to post. It's really great to here the benefits of your practice and that it has inspired your partner to join you in the practice of EE.

And I'm sure you realize that sharing your positive experiences here and on the dedicated EE site forum helps others to take up and stick with practicing EE.

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

You could try what I do which is to have my mouth open slightly, breath in and when you breath out press your tongue against the roof of your mouth. This way its not so forced/is more relaxed.
Having said that, perhaps start this way then go with whatever is most comfortable.

Yes, this is the way I breathe in and out too, as it feels more natural than opening and closing my mouth. What feels more comfortable is at some point to let go and just breathe in and out through the mouth, so I guess, that's what I'll do.
Thanks Redfox for your input!

Now I notice that breathing out through my nose is quite disturbing and when I want to revert to in and out nose breathing, I have to change gears mentally to accommodate it.

I've been practicing for over a year now on a daily basis and I was feeling like that at first, but little by little over the months, it changed. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's my predator's mind at work, I don't know. I really have to concentrate hard to keep on breathing out through the mouth, which in the end, actually takes me away from the POTS in itself. Whereas when I stop fighting it, I simply breathe out through the nose at some point during the meditation and generally within a very short time, I start zoning out.

What is your aim? Do you want to be able to do POTS with nose and mouth breathing? I think it's basically a case of reprogramming your moving centre according to your aim.

My aim is to minimize sources of distraction so as to be able to concentrate on the POTS as much as possible.