A: No, you see when your physical body expires, and you enter fifth density, this is done one way and one way only: by passing through a conduit which opens specifically for the purpose of transference from third density to fifth density. Now, something often referred to in your terminology as a silver thread, is like a closed line which opens when this conduit is needed. That's rather awkward, but it's the only way to describe it. So that when the physical body terminates, this line is opened forming a conduit through which the soul passes naturally. However, part of the existence of this conduit is that it is absolutely impenetrable by any force from any density level. Therefore, souls in the process of transferring from third density to fifth density are not in any way able to be molested or tampered with. And it should be mentioned here, also, that the soul imprint of the physical body always has a connection to fifth density and that is through the so-called "silver thread." That always exists as the third density soul's doorway to fifth density. It can be opened at a moment's notice whenever needed. When it is opened it becomes a conduit. Through that conduit the soul passes. And it is not subject to interference by anything. This is not a deliberate construction, it is merely the natural process similar to what could be described as the protection mechanisms existing on second level density for creatures which are not capable of protecting themselves through their own conscious thought processes. For example, your turtle is contained within a shell that protects it. That shell is impenetrable by any natural forces, therefore nothing that is natural can harm that turtle. However, the same can exist for any creature when it is connected by the silver thread to fifth density. Once it is passing through the conduit produced by the opening of the silver thread, then, of course, it cannot be tampered with. Do you understand?
Q: (L) Yes, but why do so many souls, when they leave the body, not traverse this conduit, and why do they stay earthbound, and why do they attach to other bodies? Why does this condition exist?
A: That is a complicated question, however the best answer is choice is involved there for those souls who wish not to leave the plane of third density. The only possibility to do this is to be detached from the now expired physical body but still be within the third density plane, which, of course, is not natural, but nonetheless can occur. In situations such as this, though it has been incorrectly reported, the silver thread is still attached and still remains a thread rather than a conduit. The soul is still attached to the silver thread but detached from the host body which has now expired. So the effect is very similar to being consciously aware of third density surroundings without a third density unit to accompany. Do you understand?
Q: (L) Yes. Okay...
A: Also, please be aware of the fact that once the soul leaves the confines of the physical body, the illusion of time passage is no longer apparent even when the soul remains on the third density plane. Therefore, it appears to that soul that no time whatsoever has passed. And, we mention this merely for you to contemplate all of the various meanings behind this.
Q: (L) So, in other words, they make replacements for dead people and put their souls in a replacement body, so that they can continue living on, is that it?
Q: (L) Do they ever use dead bodies and re-animate them and then put other souls in them?
A: No. (T): Now, wait now, you're saying some of them... I'm lost now. (TK) Is there a limit to how long they can be dead? (L) They make...
A: For example: a soldier is KIA, his body is duplicated, his soul is replaced into new body, then he is "reprogrammed for service" to aliens and S.G. [Secret Government]
Q: (L) Where does the new body coming from? (TK) Cloned, basically. (SV) I would think so...
A: It is duplicate of old body.
Q: (T) Where do they get the duplicate? (L) Where do they get the material for the duplicate? I know that's a dumb question, I know the answer.
Q: (L) OK, that's it. (J) It's in the air, same thing. [TDARM is Trans Dimensional Atomic ReMolecularization] (T) Otherwise known in Star Trek as a 'Replicator'. (TK) Does somebody have to die in a certain way before they can do this?
A: (TK): Is there a time limit on how long they can be dead?
Q: (T): Well, because when your physical body dies, your soul body continues on. Your soul doesn't die, so they always have it. (L) They don't want to take your body out of the graveyard, because they're not concerned about the body.
A: Zero time.
Q: (T): Because there's no time... (L) They use the frequency vibration of the soul pattern, they take it into another density, use their TDARM technology to cause a molecular re-assembly; in other words, the atoms begin to whir and assemble around it in the pattern that it had before, and then it is a full-fledged body, and then they insert it back through the time doorway into 3D again. Is that correct?
Q: (T): Are all these [listed] KIA's, are they dead KIA's, when they go, that you were talking about? I mean, are they really dead? (TK) Were they dead when this was done?
Q: (T): OK, you said... let's use Vietnam. You said there were 23,000 KIA's of the 60,000 that actually were not killed in action. True? Yes?
A: Were killed, then reanimated.
Q: (L) We're not talking about physical bodies here, are we?
Q: (L) OK, there are some that were killed in action that the actual bodies were reanimated? (J) As long as they weren't blown up in a land mine, yeah. (L) There were actually bodies that were actually reanimated, is that correct?
A: Some, but most were duplicated.
Q: (L) Now this leads to the immediate question: Is there some potentiality that is created by dying in a violent manner; i.e., in war, in an atmosphere of war, that makes one susceptible to this particular type of activity, as opposed to just people dying in an ordinary sense? (J) Negative energy...
Q: (T): No, because violent death like that, we have violent death all the time without being in a war; car crashes, fires, explosions...
A: War makes covert actions so easy.
In contrast to the idea that time is circular and history an endless series of cycles-the Eternal Return of Hindu and later Greek (and Nietzschean) formulations-Zoroastrian time is linear. The world had a beginning and a midpoint and will have an end, a final goal which gives meaning to all that went before. In the beginning Ahura Mazda created a perfect world which was subsequently marred by the penetration of the evil principle into every domain. Midway in the course of history Zarathustra came to offer (or to remind men of) the opportunity to collaborate in the work of redemption, in the restoration of perfection toward which all creation is striving. At the end of time another saosyant (savior) will appear and lead the forces of light in an ordeal by fire, in which a flood of molten metal will burn up the last vestiges of evil, leaving the good unharmed.*
But with half the world's course theoretically still to be run at the time of Zarathustra, scholars have found indications in the Gtithtis that the prophet believed that the end of the world was imminent, and that the renewal of a world destroyed by fire would take place within his lifetime. The prayer, "May we be those who will renew this existence," is seen as an indication that Zarathustra's followers also believed that the crisis would come in their own time, allowing them personally to contribute to the triumph of Ahura Mazda over evil.286
Two observations may be relevant here. First, we know that the destruction of the world by fire, as by flood, is a common mythological theme; and while some of these conflagration myths may pertain to the ultimate fate of the earth, others seem more descriptive of historical catastrophes, comparable perhaps to the periodic cleansing of the earth described by the Egyptian priest in the Timaeus. Second, the M.I.T. archaeo-astronomers tell us that for the ancients, the "end of the world" actually meant the end of a world-age, in terms of the Precession of the Equinoxes:
What actually comes to an end is a world, in the sense of a world- age. The catastrophe cleans out the past, which is replaced by a "new heaven and a new earth."
When the sun no longer rose at the vernal equinox in the zodiacal constellation which had framed it for some two thousand years, the "old world" had come to an end.
The first of these conserved traditions centers around the pressing of a consecrated plant (Iranian haoma, Vedic soma) whose juice was thought to exhilarate and heighten the powers of the drinker. A ceremonial mortar and pestle, emblematic of the Zoroastrian priesthood, were used to pound the haoma; the juice was then collected and filtered through a ring around which three, five, or seven hairs of the sacred bull had been woven. In India the analogous soma plant was beaten on a grinding slab before the pulp was put into a vessel and water poured over it. While the juice of the haomawas only "shown" to the fire, some of the soma juice was offered to various deities by pouring it into the fire...
Zoroastrian ceremony has suggested to scholars that the sacrifice of a bull was once part of the haoma ritual. Some have further concluded that an excess of animal sacrifice was partly responsible for Zarathustra' s apparent denunciation of the haoma*. As the haoma ceremony was to be one of the most important Zoroastrian rites down through the ages, these Iraniologists feel that what Zarathustra actually condemned was not the ritual as such, but an orgiastic perversion in which the wanton slaying of cattle accompanied the abuse of intoxicating plant substances. And as Mithra was traditionally associated with animal sacrifice in general, and with bull sacrifice in particular, these theorized excesses are most frequently attributed to the worshippers of that ancient god.
The second principle of particular importance to both Old Iranian and Vedic religion, and again conserved by Zoroastrians, is the association of fire with the concept of a universal order: asa in Iran, rta in India. At once cosmic, liturgical, and moral, this ordering principle was held to govern every aspect of existence, from the rhythms of the cosmos and the workings of nature to the conduct of men. In India the highest sky as well as the fire altar was the seat of rta (from the verb "to fit") , a term that is used several hundred times in the Rig Veda. In Iran the fire was protected by Asha, Right Order; the righteous man was asavan, possessing asa,an upholder of the right order of things. Zarathustra himself would claim to have seen into that order, vowing "while I have power and strength, I shall teach men to seek the Right [Asha]" (Y.XXVIII.4). The priests of the old religion had apparently fallen away from asa, a dereliction that in itself defines falsehood or deceit, and missionaries were sent to spread the word of the prophet not only to Iranians but also to "those who seek Asha in other lands" (Y.XLII.6).
The origin of this very old concept, which has been compared to the tao of China and the Egyptian maat, is unknown . If, as some scholars believe, it was derived from an observation of the regular movements of the celestial bodies, one wonders what the relationship might have been between the popular concept of asaand the attentiveness of the Magi, fire-worshippers themselves, to the changing patterns in the sky.
Q: (L) I see. Well, maybe we should begin with some of the questions that are from that abstract level since that's where we are. In the course of my recent research, I keep going deeper and deeper and further back following one thread after another. While I have touched on the topic of Zoroastrianism in the past, I had never gone into it as deeply as I recently decided to do. As a consequence, I ended up reading several scholarly tomes on the topic. It seems there are two schools. One school thinks that Zoroaster was a fairly late phenomenon, probably 7th century BC. The other school relies on the linguistics - the philology I guess they'd call it - and they claim that the language of Zoroaster must date back to the second millennium BC - that is, somewhere between 1600 and 1200 BC. That would put Zoroaster in the timeframe of, say, Akhenaten. In brief, Zoroaster claimed to have had a vision, or so the story goes, that revealed to him the One God, Ahura Mazda, and he promoted a religion of almost pure monotheism as well as being more or less the originator of the idea that human beings have the free will to choose good or evil. He also was the first to come up with ideas of messianism, eschatology. It was an apocalyptic religion in the sense of being revealed, but also that there were to be revelations about the end of time - time of course being a very important concept in his religion as it developed. So, I guess the first question I want to know is: Is there any possibility that Akhenaten was influenced by Zoroastrianism? Is that a possibility?
A: Not just a possibility, but a certainty.
Q: (L) If that's the case, how was that possible?
A: The ancient world was quite "well connected".
Q: (L) Okay... Can you get me any closer to a clue here?
A: Check the Hurrian connection.
Q: (L) I thought I had checked that pretty deeply. I guess I could read some more. Now, there are those who say that Zurvanism was an attempt to deal with some of the dangling problems that Zoroaster left in terms of his dualism. One of his hymns describes Ahura Mazda and Ahriman as twins, so, they came up with Zurvanism, the ultimate god of space/time as father to the twins to explain this. Is that in fact the case?
A: No. Zurvan was the ancient god of the steppes and the Indo-Aryan peoples.
Q: (L) Okay, I've got a paper here... It seems that Zurvan was perceived as the god of infinite time and space, and was described as, "One Alone, a transcendental neutral god, and without passion. One for whom there was no distinction between good and evil. So, Zurvan had a varied history... So, the problem I want to get to right now is the idea that Zurvan was represented as the lion-headed god. There was a lion man figure found in Hohlenstein-Stadel, which is a German cave. It's carved out of ivory, and it's THE oldest known zoomorphic animal sculpture in the world, and the oldest known uncontested example of figurative art. It has been determined to be about - ready? 40,000 years old!! That was by carbon dating the material which was in the same layer where the figure was found. It was associated with the Aurignacian culture and it was 29cm in height, carved out of mammoth ivory using a flint stone knife. Seven parallel, transverse, carved gouges are on the left arm. The figure of Zurvan is often represented with a serpent coiled around him seven times. It is said that the sculpture shares certain similarities with French cave wall paintings which also show hybrid creatures. The Lion man is several thousand years older. Anyhow, this artifact seems to resemble very closely the lion man figure that was described as being the representation of Zurvan. So, I guess my question is: Are we talking about the same religion or religious ideas or perceptions that were common to the cultures that produced the cave art in Western Europe?
Q: (L) And they came up with these ideas of infinite time and space that far back?
A: And so much more. They were "connected".
Q: (L) So in other words, what we are looking at here through a probably distorted survival via Zoroaster or Zarathushtra is that the Aryan religion was based first of all on a supreme principle of infinite time and infinite space from which was born essentially "good mind" and "evil mind" as Zoroaster put it?
A: Yes. STO and STS duality.
Q: (L) And this same religion, either in its older form or its later elaboration by Zarathushtra, was the origin of the ideas of free will?
Q: (L) Of savior gods?
Q: (L) The Six Bounteous Immortals, or I guess what we could say archetypes or sixth density?
Q: (L) Basically, it almost seemed as though it was a religion about information. Everything emerges from information, but there are some other very particular things about it that are very advanced. They were talking about things that physicists talk about nowadays.
Q: (L) It also seems to be the closest religious exposition of anything that I've come across to what we have received via these transmissions.
Q: (L) I'm just saying "close", because obviously there are some distortions and so forth. So did Zarathushtra modify this original religion because he had a vision, or...?
A: The ideas had already been corrupted, and Zarathushtra sought to recover the truth.
Q: (L) So it had already been corrupted, and he was trying to bring it back in line. He got close, but didn't quite make it. Is that it?
Q: (L) And what had it been corrupted to?
A: The Indian Vedas will give clues.
Q: (L) Maybe he wasn't wrong when he said that the daevas were demons. Were the daevas like STS beings?
Q: (L) Were they like 4th density STS?
Thanks for posting this, @Arwenn. Last night after the workshop I re-read the section about Zoroaster, and I think my thinking went off the rails a little bit. While some of Zoroaster's ideas are clearly STS-influenced (linear time, monotheism, combat myth etc), it also seems that he was some sort of shaman who was battling corrupting influences, thus the emphasis on right conduct (asha) and his aversion to animal sacrifice.
Laura said:In the Indo-Iranian world, rita changed to asha, but the meaning remained the same. The pantheon of gods was similar also except that the Avesta diverges from the Rig Veda in its treatment of the great gods who brought the ordered world into being. Indra is mentioned only briefly, and as a demon. The god who dominates the Avestan view is Ahura Mazda, and it is not clear that the Vedic priests even had any knowledge of him! However, Zoroaster gave Ahura Mazda a position that was more exalted than that occupied by any other deity in the ancient world.
Laura said:The Magi who were featured in the story of Jesus were probably not completely Zoroastrian. As the Zoroastrian faith, and the Persian empire, expanded westward into the territory of Media, the priests of an extremely ancient religion, the Magi, adopted themselves into Zoroastrianism, though not without major social upheavals. The general scholarly opinion is that these priests of the old Indo-Iranian faith, which Zarathustra preached against in the Gathas, re-adapted many practices of the old religion back into the faith - such as reverence for subordinate divinities, the haoma - sacrifice, and purity rituals. [..]
What, then, were the Magi searching for in the story of the birth of Jesus recounted by Fulcanelli as a clue to the alchemical transformation?
When we look into the matter of Zoroastrian mysticism - the Magian influence from the more ancient sources - we find that it posits individuals who have had a direct experience of the Deity, or God. Such individuals live their lives in the presence of God, a God to which the mystic relates as a Beloved as well as a Source of Wisdom. This Zoroastrian mysticism is rationally tested but transcends any rational explanation.
Some of the basic results of such a mystical life are: a powerful sense of a divine Presence, with which one can engage in inner dialogue and prayer, the loving and friendly quality of that Presence, the increase in intelligence and alertness it brings - which is often related to a concept of God as Divine Wisdom - a feeling of happiness and peace, and, as a sign, the inner perception of brilliant light - a STAR.
These experiences certainly can be counterfeited, by various mind- altering techniques of drugs, but the true experience can be measured by its power to bring about personal and moral transformation towards what is good and constructive - what Zoroastrians call the path of ASHA, or Righteousness.
The Gathas of Zarathustra show that their author, is speaking from just such an authentic mystical experience. These mystical experiences are easily describable in Zoroastrian terms. The mystical perception of God in the "inner eye" or "imagination", the mystical Light, the sense of divine Wisdom, the love between God and human, the infusion of virtue, courage, and perseverence - all these basic factors clearly exist in the Gathas. In the Gathas (and other texts) mysticism is hidden in plain sight.
In Zarathustra's Gathas, Yasna 28, the first song of the Gathas, verse 28,2 Zarathustra speaks of the mystical means of that relationship, how it comes about: "Wise God, I approach you through good mind..." (234: Jafarey translation)
The simple phrase "through good mind," speaks of a high level of mystical experience. S. Insler, another modern translator of the Gathas, translates vohu manah, the original Avestan, as "Good Thinking;" but this misses the point of the Prophet's mystical way. Good Thinking is a human virtue, and approaching God through good thinking is something a non-mystical liberal Protestant or rationalist humanist would say. It is far more than "good thinking" to Zarathustra. Good Mind is a living emanation of the Wise Lord. To approach ("be encircled by" in literal translation) Good Mind is to achieve communion, through the mind, with the Divine Mind, or Divine Intelligence. It is a sharing of the divine Mind through the cooperation of human mind and Divine communication. Through this union of minds comes perception of divine information, the laws of humanity and nature - perception of ASHA.
Eugene Canseliet write in his Preface to the second edition of Fulcanelli's Alchemical Masterpiece, The Dwellings of the Philosophers
This is what Fulcanelli means by the Star that heralds the birth of the Christ within.According to the meaning of the Latin word adeptus, the alchemist has then received the Gift of God, or even better, the Present, a cabalistic pun on the double meaning of the word, underlining that he thus enjoys the infinite duration of the Now. [...] 'In the Kingdom of Sulpur there exists a Mirror in which the entire World can be seen. Whosoever looks into this Mirror can see and learn the three parts of Wisdom of the entire World.
Wikipedia said:According to the author John G. Bennett, a student and aide of George Gurdjieff who first mentioned the concept, the word sarmoung uses the Armenian pronunciation of the Persian term sarman, which may mean either "he who preserves the doctrine of Zoroaster" or "bee".
Regarding the meaning, Bennett writes:
"The word can be interpreted in three ways. It is the word for bee, which has always been a symbol of those who collect the precious 'honey' of traditional wisdom and preserve it for further generations. A collection of legends, well known in Armenian and Syrian circles with the title of The Bees, was revised by Mar Salamon, a Nestorian Archimandrite in the thirteenth century. "The Bees" refers to a mysterious power transmitted from the time of Zoroaster and made manifest in the time of Christ.... Man is Persian meaning as the quality transmitted by heredity and hence a distinguished family or race. It can be the repository of an heirloom or tradition. The word sar means head, both literally and in the sense of principal or chief. The combination sarman would thus mean the chief repository of the tradition." Yet another possibility was "those whose heads have been purified", in other words: the enlightened.
"Avesta"... "Vesta"... interesting phonic similarity.Wikipedia said:In Indo-European languages, there were two concepts regarding fire: that of an animate type called *h₁n̥gʷnís (cf. Sanskrit agni, English ignite from Latin ignis, and Russian ogon), and an inanimate type *péh₂wr̥ (cf. English fire, Greek pyr, Sanskrit pu). A similar distinction existed for water. [..]
Fire worship in Graeco-Roman tradition had two separate forms: fire of the hearth and fire of the forge. Hearth worship was maintained in Rome by the Vestal Virgins, who served the goddess Vesta, protector of the home, who had a sacred flame as the symbol of her presence in the city (cf. Sacred fire of Vesta). The Greek equivalent of the goddess was Hestia, whose worship took place more commonly within the household.
We aren’t having a meeting this evening KTC, it will be next Saturday. See you then!I may not make reading club tonight. My husband is on his way home from a stint away for work. Not sure what time he will get home or how long he’s here for so if I miss it I’ll see u soon :)