Atlas Shrugged - Ayn Rand Psychopath?

Laura said:
Yup, Dirk, did all those things. And more. Remember, I'm pushing 60 and I've dealt with my autoimmune condition since I was 9, so I've had plenty of time to be experimented on and to experiment on my own. It's like The Wave... people who haven't read it keep writing to me asking "what about this, what about that?" and I say, just read The Wave - you'll see that there isn't much I've missed or haven't tried.

Laura, with all the respect, but tons of people are pushing 60 and claim to have tried it all.

Yes, you stand out of the crowd and there is a reason for me and tons of others to come to this forum and reading your work.

But if fried bacon and french fries for breakfast is the conclusion you got to after all those years of experimenting I am a little suspicious. Sorry :-).

That said, I will finish reading the wave, so that I might be able to put it another context.

But my gut says you are missing parts of the puzzle. Also your work is very interesting, but it is also kind of an energetic drain for me. Though I find myself coming back here to learn more.

Personally I think two very important things need to happen:

People need to wake up and maybe 'see the terror of it all'. This will eventually bring psychopathic/STS influences down. You are doing a great job here. But this will essentially bring almost the whole world down.

The other thing that I honestly believe that needs to happen is that STO oriented individuals need to take control of the business world. In other words there have to be people that build businesses that are truly build with the intention to serve the greater good. Yes, this can only be done by awakened individuals, but at some point people have to concentrate on their own contribution and kind of 'shut out the terror' a bit, because it costs a ton of energy.
 
Atlas Shrugged, the movie is coming out in April this year:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480239/

Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W07bFa4TzM

Can't wait to see it.
 
Dirk said:
Laura said:
Yup, Dirk, did all those things. And more. Remember, I'm pushing 60 and I've dealt with my autoimmune condition since I was 9, so I've had plenty of time to be experimented on and to experiment on my own. It's like The Wave... people who haven't read it keep writing to me asking "what about this, what about that?" and I say, just read The Wave - you'll see that there isn't much I've missed or haven't tried.

Laura, with all the respect, but tons of people are pushing 60 and claim to have tried it all.

Yes, you stand out of the crowd and there is a reason for me and tons of others to come to this forum and reading your work.

But if fried bacon and french fries for breakfast is the conclusion you got to after all those years of experimenting I am a little suspicious. Sorry :-).

That said, I will finish reading the wave, so that I might be able to put it another context.

But my gut says you are missing parts of the puzzle. Also your work is very interesting, but it is also kind of an energetic drain for me. Though I find myself coming back here to learn more.

Personally I think two very important things need to happen:

People need to wake up and maybe 'see the terror of it all'. This will eventually bring psychopathic/STS influences down. You are doing a great job here. But this will essentially bring almost the whole world down.

The other thing that I honestly believe that needs to happen is that STO oriented individuals need to take control of the business world. In other words there have to be people that build businesses that are truly build with the intention to serve the greater good. Yes, this can only be done by awakened individuals, but at some point people have to concentrate on their own contribution and kind of 'shut out the terror' a bit, because it costs a ton of energy.

Dirk, if you are sincerely interested in learning, please read the research on healthy fats and the necessity of high quality protein to the human body. There are huge amounts of research on this forum alone about it - please - take the time to actually read the data before making statements that indicate quite clearly that you haven't. Also, if you are unhappy or dissatisfied with the information you are finding here, there is a little red 'x' in the upper right hand corner of your screen that you can utilize to close the window. That way, you don't have to 'be drained' by having your pre-existing understanding challenged with the truth.

The issue here is that there is scientific, proven data to back up the diet choices - all freely available for you to read and it has nothing to do with french fries (this was a twist on your part) - so - please - do us all, and yourself, a favor and get up to speed on the information, or go to another forum that makes you more comfortable with your choices.
 
Dirk said:
Laura, with all the respect, but tons of people are pushing 60 and claim to have tried it all.

Well, there's a difference between saying and doing -- and that's where discernment comes in.

Dirk said:
That said, I will finish reading the wave, so that I might be able to put it another context.

A good idea -- because before you do that, as you say, you don't have the full context.

Dirk said:
But my gut says you are missing parts of the puzzle. Also your work is very interesting, but it is also kind of an energetic drain for me. Though I find myself coming back here to learn more.

Why do you think that is? Perhaps it's because the information here conflicts with some of your sacred cows? Any time we struggle to recognize and let go of illusion, it takes work. As anart said, though, if the energetic drain is too much, you are always free to leave and pursue other interests which aren't so draining.

Dirk said:
People need to wake up and maybe 'see the terror of it all'. This will eventually bring psychopathic/STS influences down. You are doing a great job here. But this will essentially bring almost the whole world down.

What do you think is happening anyway?

Dirk said:
[...] at some point people have to concentrate on their own contribution and kind of 'shut out the terror' a bit, because it costs a ton of energy.

Perhaps -- although I feel like it takes a lot more energy to support an illusion -- but 'shutting out the terror' is also an excellent way to put yourself back to sleep.
 
Shijing said:
Well, there's a difference between saying and doing -- and that's where discernment comes in.

Yes, there is a lot of fraud in this area.


Shijing said:
Why do you think that is? Perhaps it's because the information here conflicts with some of your sacred cows? Any time we struggle to recognize and let go of illusion, it takes work. As anart said, though, if the energetic drain is too much, you are always free to leave and pursue other interests which aren't so draining.

Sure, since if I accept the new reality, big uncomfortable changes in my life will follow. I'd rather not have that happen ;D. I want to build big business and get some serious wordly influence. If an ice age is coming up within now and a few years or a meteorite will strike earth within a few years that seems like a lousy plan. So I need to be really certain about such claims and I am not yet.

Shijing said:
What do you think is happening anyway?

Yes, I concur and see that happening. That's exactly the reason why there need to be forces that keep it going once the psychopathic influences are brought down. I believe STO candidates need to take over the business world in order to sustain society after psychopathic influences are brought down. A bunch of screaming greenpeace activitists don't have the skills in order to do this. My guess is that Laura and most people on this forum don't have the necessary skills either. So this is where a lot of effort will have to be put in.

Shijing said:
Perhaps -- although I feel like it takes a lot more energy to support an illusion -- but 'shutting out the terror' is also an excellent way to put yourself back to sleep.

By all means, stay awake and know what you are doing, but focus on what you can create for 95% of the time and maybe 5% on the time on what others are destroying in order to make adequate decisions. The balance is hugely off on this forum.
 
anart said:
Dirk said:
Laura said:
Yup, Dirk, did all those things. And more. Remember, I'm pushing 60 and I've dealt with my autoimmune condition since I was 9, so I've had plenty of time to be experimented on and to experiment on my own. It's like The Wave... people who haven't read it keep writing to me asking "what about this, what about that?" and I say, just read The Wave - you'll see that there isn't much I've missed or haven't tried.

Laura, with all the respect, but tons of people are pushing 60 and claim to have tried it all.

Yes, you stand out of the crowd and there is a reason for me and tons of others to come to this forum and reading your work.

But if fried bacon and french fries for breakfast is the conclusion you got to after all those years of experimenting I am a little suspicious. Sorry :-).

That said, I will finish reading the wave, so that I might be able to put it another context.

But my gut says you are missing parts of the puzzle. Also your work is very interesting, but it is also kind of an energetic drain for me. Though I find myself coming back here to learn more.

Personally I think two very important things need to happen:

People need to wake up and maybe 'see the terror of it all'. This will eventually bring psychopathic/STS influences down. You are doing a great job here. But this will essentially bring almost the whole world down.

The other thing that I honestly believe that needs to happen is that STO oriented individuals need to take control of the business world. In other words there have to be people that build businesses that are truly build with the intention to serve the greater good. Yes, this can only be done by awakened individuals, but at some point people have to concentrate on their own contribution and kind of 'shut out the terror' a bit, because it costs a ton of energy.

Dirk, if you are sincerely interested in learning, please read the research on healthy fats and the necessity of high quality protein to the human body. There are huge amounts of research on this forum alone about it - please - take the time to actually read the data before making statements that indicate quite clearly that you haven't. Also, if you are unhappy or dissatisfied with the information you are finding here, there is a little red 'x' in the upper right hand corner of your screen that you can utilize to close the window. That way, you don't have to 'be drained' by having your pre-existing understanding challenged with the truth.

The issue here is that there is scientific, proven data to back up the diet choices - all freely available for you to read and it has nothing to do with french fries (this was a twist on your part) - so - please - do us all, and yourself, a favor and get up to speed on the information, or go to another forum that makes you more comfortable with your choices.

Anart, there is a lot of information on the health forum. Some new and some I have read before. Though the things I see are kind of incoherent. Am I missing something and is there a thread or article on the cassiopaea websites that summarizes it into a more coherent whole? I have done tons of research myself, so I am curious if there it can give any new insights. I will read up on it. Thanks.
 
Dirk said:
Anart, there is a lot of information on the health forum. Some new and some I have read before. Though the things I see are kind of incoherent. Am I missing something and is there a thread or article on the cassiopaea websites that summarizes it into a more coherent whole? I have done tons of research myself, so I am curious if there it can give any new insights. I will read up on it. Thanks.

Dirk,

Regarding bacon/lard as a healthy breakfast food, you might want to check out this thread:

Saturated Fats, Cholesterol Lard and Vitamin D

Potatoes are okay for some people, but not for all. Many of us have sensitivity to vegetables in the nightshade family, so "french fries" are not recommended on here as being healthy for all. The only way to find out is by going on the recommended detox diet and slowly testing yourself with each food.

Although it may seem like a lot of reading, you can get up to speed by spending some time on the recommended health threads here:

Important threads for Diet and Health

There are several recommended health books listed here:

Recommended Books from the QFS
 
Dirk said:
Sure, since if I accept the new reality, big uncomfortable changes in my life will follow. I'd rather not have that happen ;D. I want to build big business and get some serious wordly influence. If an ice age is coming up within now and a few years or a meteorite will strike earth within a few years that seems like a lousy plan. So I need to be really certain about such claims and I am not yet.

Well, the Work is all about "big uncomfortable changes" and the Work is what forms the basis for this forum. In many cases you'll never really "get it" without making those big changes. Everybody is in a different situation though, which is why it is important to network to gather an objective view of where we are and where we're headed. Making those "big uncomfortable changes" is often what separates the wheat from the chaff; and I don't mean in terms of this forum solely - I mean in the general sense of 3D life.

Dirk said:
Yes, I concur and see that happening. That's exactly the reason why there need to be forces that keep it going once the psychopathic influences are brought down. I believe STO candidates need to take over the business world in order to sustain society after psychopathic influences are brought down. A bunch of screaming greenpeace activitists don't have the skills in order to do this. My guess is that Laura and most people on this forum don't have the necessary skills either. So this is where a lot of effort will have to be put in.

If you haven't read Political Ponerology, I would highly recommend it. Your confusion here about the possibilities for change in the business world are likely due to a lack of knowledge in this area of psychopathology on a macro-social scale, OSIT.

Dirk said:
Shijing said:
Perhaps -- although I feel like it takes a lot more energy to support an illusion -- but 'shutting out the terror' is also an excellent way to put yourself back to sleep.

By all means, stay awake and know what you are doing, but focus on what you can create for 95% of the time and maybe 5% on the time on what others are destroying in order to make adequate decisions. The balance is hugely off on this forum.

Can you clarify what you mean here?
 
RyanX said:
Well, the Work is all about "big uncomfortable changes" and the Work is what forms the basis for this forum. In many cases you'll never really "get it" without making those big changes. Everybody is in a different situation though, which is why it is important to network to gather an objective view of where we are and where we're headed. Making those "big uncomfortable changes" is often what separates the wheat from the chaff; and I don't mean in terms of this forum solely - I mean in the general sense of 3D life.

I get that.

RyanX said:
If you haven't read Political Ponerology, I would highly recommend it. Your confusion here about the possibilities for change in the business world are likely due to a lack of knowledge in this area of psychopathology on a macro-social scale, OSIT.

I agree that it may be extremely hard to take over existing businesses from the bottom up, unless you have enough money to buy them and rigorously restructure them. So, the best strategy, in my opinion is to build new businesses and screen INCREDIBLE thorougly to shed it from psychopathic influences on the inside (10 hour interviews, tracking down their entire history, have it done by people who knowledge about psychopathology, etc...). And have plans in place in order to keep it going once the currency system collapses. And build mobile/online businesses with people all over the world cooperating, so that no single government can bring it down.

RyanX said:
Can you clarify what you mean here?

I mean that much more emphasis should be placed on building a society that can sustain itself after psychopathic influences are brought down.
 
Dirk said:
I mean that much more emphasis should be placed on building a society that can sustain itself after psychopathic influences are brought down.

"Ignota, nulla curatio morbi".

Do not attempt to cure what you do not understand.

Only when you understand the problem thoroughly can you possibly begin to think about what to do to fix it. I could be wrong, but you do not seem to fully understand what the problems are, how deep, how wide, how entrenched. Plus, it appears that you want to have it all boiled down for you in 25 words or less. There is no free lunch in the Universe, and those who think there is, or who think there are short-cuts, end up being lunch.

As for restructuring the business world, we have a few experiments going on at present that you can read about in some of the testimonials posted here: http://cassiopaea-cult.com/category/testimonials-english
 
Dirk said:
I agree that it may be extremely hard to take over existing businesses from the bottom up, unless you have enough money to buy them and rigorously restructure them. So, the best strategy, in my opinion is to build new businesses and screen INCREDIBLE thorougly to shed it from psychopathic influences on the inside (10 hour interviews, tracking down their entire history, have it done by people who knowledge about psychopathology, etc...). And have plans in place in order to keep it going once the currency system collapses. And build mobile/online businesses with people all over the world cooperating, so that no single government can bring it down.

What are you currently doing to become a successful business person? If you feel so strongly about it, I think you should get out there and start a business or become a part of a pre-existing one. Then report back your results.

As for what skills the forum members or Laura have, I think you have a lot of assumptions based on little information. Many forum members are or have been successful business people. I don't think anyone has been a director of a multi-national corporation, but there are plenty of success stories here on a smaller scale. And those screaming Greenpeacers? Many liberal activists are rather skilled at the kind of decentralized networking that you are theorizing would be important to a post-psychopathically influenced world.

Again... If the business world is your passion, get out there and see what you can do. I would suggest reading "Snakes in Suits" and "Political Ponerology" first. It might help what you observe make more sense.
 
Patience said:
What are you currently doing to become a successful business person? If you feel so strongly about it, I think you should get out there and start a business or become a part of a pre-existing one. Then report back your results.

I am working on it. I also realize I try to push it on others by the comments I made. One thing I feel is that this going to be my part in the whole process. What I am trying to convey is that it is much easier to get the message 'out there' if you have a few hundred millions dollars backing you up (and the other resources, skills, experiences and relationships that go with it).

Patience said:
As for what skills the forum members or Laura have, I think you have a lot of assumptions based on little information. Many forum members are or have been successful business people. I don't think anyone has been a director of a multi-national corporation, but there are plenty of success stories here on a smaller scale. And those screaming Greenpeacers? Many liberal activists are rather skilled at the kind of decentralized networking that you are theorizing would be important to a post-psychopathically influenced world.

Sure, everybody has their skills. But do we have STO candidates that have the ability to lead thousands or millions of people? My guess is, that, at least a few, of the 200 hundred conscious beings Gurdjieffs is talking about will come from the business world. I don't know if that particular part of the business world already exists or still needs to be build.

Patience said:
Again... If the business world is your passion, get out there and see what you can do. I would suggest reading "Snakes in Suits" and "Political Ponerology" first. It might help what you observe make more sense.

I am out there and it is not easy. Will read the books.

Ok, time for me to read on.
 
Heartbreaking account of one woman's life:

How Ayn Rand ruined my childhood
By Alyssa Bereznak

My parents split up when I was 4. My father, a lawyer, wrote the divorce papers himself and included one specific rule: My mother was forbidden to raise my brother and me religiously. She agreed, dissolving Sunday church and Bible study with one swift signature. Mom didn't mind; she was agnostic and knew we didn't need religion to be good people. But a disdain for faith wasn't the only reason he wrote God out of my childhood. There was simply no room in our household for both Jesus Christ and my father's one true love: Ayn Rand.

You might be familiar with Rand from a high school reading assignment. Perhaps a Tea Partyer acquaintance name-dropped her in a debate on individual rights. Or maybe you've heard the film adaptation of her magnum opus "Atlas Shrugged" is due out April 15. In short, she is a Russian-born American novelist who championed her self-taught philosophy of objectivism through her many works of fiction. Conservatives are known to praise her for her support of laissez-faire economics and meritocracy. Liberals tend to criticize her for being too simplistic. I know her more intimately as the woman whose philosophy dictates my father's every decision.

What is objectivism? If you'd asked me that question as a child, I could have trotted to the foyer of my father's home and referenced a framed quote by Rand that hung there like a cross. It read: "My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute." As a little kid I interpreted this to mean: Love yourself. Nowadays, Rand's bit is best summed up by the rapper Drake, who sang: "Imma do me."

Dad wasn't always a Rand zealot. He was raised in a Catholic family and went to church every week. After he and my mother got married in 1982, they shopped around for a church. He was looking for something to live by, but he couldn't find it in traditional organized religion.

Then he discovered objectivism. I don't know exactly why he sparked to Rand. He claimed the philosophy appealed to him because it's based solely on logic. It also conveniently quenched his lawyer's thirst to always be right. It's not uncommon for people to seek out belief systems, whether political or spiritual, that make them feel good about how they already live their lives. Ultimately, I suspect Dad was drawn to objectivism because, unlike so many altruistic faiths, it made him feel good about being selfish.

Needless to say, Dad's newfound obsession with the individual didn't pan out so well with the woman he married. He was always controlling, but he became even more so. In the end, my mother moved out, but objectivism stayed. My brother and I switched off living at each parent’s house once a week.

It was odd growing up, at least part-time, in an objectivist house. My father reserved long weekends to attend Ayn Rand Institute conferences held in Orange County, California. He would return with a tan and a pile of new reading material for my brother and me. While other kids my age were going to Bible study, I took evening classes from the institute via phone. (I half-listened while clicking through lolcat photos.)

Our objectivist education, however, was not confined to lectures and books. One time, at dinner, I complained that my brother was hogging all the food.

"He's being selfish!" I whined to my father.

"Being selfish is a good thing," he said. "To be selfless is to deny one's self. To be selfish is to embrace the self, and accept your wants and needs."

It was my dad's classic response -- a grandiose philosophical answer to a simple real-world problem. But who cared about logic? All I wanted was another serving of mashed potatoes.

Still, Rand's philosophy was well-suited for the self-absorbed tween I was becoming. Her books were packed with riveting plot twists and sexy architects -- easy reading as long as you skimmed over the occasional four-page, didactic rant. Around the time I began exploring Rand's literature, my parents began an epic legal battle over child support. I felt isolated by the conflict and found solace in Rand's message: You must rely on yourself for happiness.

Just as many use faith as a reason to continue during hard times, objectivism helped me stay strong throughout my parents' legal battle. I got a part-time job, played field hockey, ran for student government and joined the yearbook staff. I argued with a Birkenstock-clad substitute teacher the day he showed Michael Moore's classic underdog-bites-back documentary "Roger and Me" in government class. He looked at me in disbelief as I, a skinny blond girl with braces, insisted that General Motors CEO Roger Smith had every right to ruin the lives of Flint, Mich., citizens. On weekends I argued with my friends that global warming didn't exist. I hoarded my accomplishments at school, convinced I'd earned them all on my own. Meanwhile, my mother quietly packed my lunch every day.

Soon, however, I began to question whether my father's philosophical beliefs were simply a justification of his own needs. As soon as the legal drama erupted, he refused to pay for even the smallest things, declaring, "Your mother is suing me," in defensive sound bites, as though it explained everything.

Can I buy new shoes? A couple bucks for the movies? Your mother is suing me.

Twenty dollars for a class field trip? Your mother is suing me.

From what I understood of his favorite capitalist champion, any form of altruism was evil. But how could that kind of blanket self-interest extend to his own children, the people he was legally and morally bound to take care of? What was I supposed to do, fend for myself?

The answer to my question came on an autumn weekend during my sophomore year in high school. I was hosting a Harry Potter-themed float party in our driveway, a normal ritual to prepare decorations for my high school quad the week of homecoming. As I was painting a cardboard owl, my father asked me to come inside the house. He and his new wife sat me down at the dinner table with grave faces.

"We were wondering if you would petition to be emancipated," he said in his lawyer voice.

"What does that mean?" I asked, picking at the mauve paint on my hands. I later discovered that for most kids, declaring emancipation is an extreme measure -- something you do if your parents are crack addicts or deadbeats.

"You would need to become financially independent," he said. "You could work for me at my law firm and pay rent to live here."

This was my moment of truth as an objectivist. If I believed in the glory of the individual, I would've signed the petition papers then and there. But as much as Rand's novels had taught me to believe in meritocracy, they had not prepared me to go it alone financially and emotionally. I began to cry and refused.

Hardcore objectivists often criticize liberals for basing decisions on emotion, rather than reason. My father saw our family politics no differently. In his mind, it was reasonable to ask that I emancipate myself and work for a living. To me, it felt like he was asking me to sacrifice my childhood so he didn't have to pay child support. To me, it felt like abandonment.

Nearly a year after that conversation, my parents' legal battle came to an end. In Santa Clara County's record room, the typical family law case occupies the space of a small manila folder. My parents' case filled several shelves. A judge decided my father would have to pay my mother both what he owed in child support and her attorney fees -- an amount that totaled about $120,000.

Dad’s only choice was to sell our house. I moved to Mom's and saw him for the occasional restaurant lunch or family holiday. The distance between us grew wider when I went off to college. He'd call me every other month to play 20-minute catch-up before he had to rush back to work. More consistent, however, were his e-mails. Forwarded from the daily objectivist newsletter he subscribed to, each one had a title like "George W. Bush, Genius" or "Obama the Pathetic." They continue to pile up in my in box, mostly unread. Every once in a while, I'll click on one, hoping to find a "How are you?" or "What's new?" to no avail. It's a hopeless exercise. I learned long ago that an objectivist like my father simply doesn't care to know.

Alyssa Bereznak is a grad student at New York University's Arthur L. Carter Journalism Institute. Follow her on Twitter @alyssabereznak. More: Alyssa Bereznak

[mod: quote fixed]
 
Wow, sounds just like my father, except that he never found it necessary to explain or justify his monumental selfishness and stinginess. "Most dads weren't really interested in their children in those days", he often quips. He would just love Ayn Rand!
 
A "friend" suggested I read The Fountainhead so I did. I do have to say that I think as an author, she's wonderful. Easy to read yet intelligent and intellectual.
The problem was her message. I was stunned to not only read her point that basically man's ego is the fountainhead of progress and civilization, basically, but to read her drill it in me over and over and over again. The book could have ended a dozen times throughout but noooooo, she wasn't done yet. Fictionalized example after fictionalized example, she made the angry and bitter and selfish and greedy out to be worthy heroes. I noticed that usually if she mentioned a character honestly smiling, he was a villain.
I felt kind of sick when it was all over and thought, "How can you raise a family like that? How could you have friends? How could you be married?!"

I feel sorry for her husband...
 
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