A new creation.

[redjade]

Here is a resent creation I made with photoshop CS3. It took me 2 hours to make.
It is called Seasons changing. Let me know what you think. Thanks for your time.

 

[Russ]

I think you've got some good ideas in there but I think it could be a bit more refined, then again I've used photoshop for over a decade so I have a very high standard, I can see all the techniques and tools you've used and can rate how you've used them ;) I think you have a lot of potential, 2 hours to make that isn't bad. I'll be honest, you're a novice, but really its not important, whats important is ideas and creativity, your skills with the program will imrprove over time and I can see you have very nice ideas. I think my favourite parts are the snow effect, and the distorted effect on the woman with the red, and the bottom right area with the text is nice aswell. Bits I don't like are the edges of the snow, doesn't look integrated propely, also the green on the woman's hat, same problem as the snow. There are a few brushes you can use to give a grainy effect on edges, that would work nice with the snow I think. Main thing is integration, making it look less like a collage and more like a scene.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

I think you've got some good ideas in there but I think it could be a bit more refined, then again I've used photoshop for over a decade so I have a very high standard, I can see all the techniques and tools you've used and can rate how you've used them ;)

But isn't that difficult without knowing what she intended to do? Otherwise, who is to say that she didn't mean to do exactly what she did?

Bits I don't like are the edges of the snow, doesn't look integrated propely, also the green on the woman's hat, same problem as the snow.

But with art, who is to say what is "proper" - wouldn't that also depend on what she intended to do?

Main thing is integration, making it look less like a collage and more like a scene.

Unless you want to make it look a bit like a collage :P

I like it, has a sort of surreal quality to it. The parts that Russ mentioned do kinda look out of place, but I think that kinda adds to the surreal quality. And that girl with red hair looks like she's deep in thought, like the picture in your avatar.

A great place to go to see some photoshop masters at work is worth1000.com - and if you join the community you can pick up many tips and tricks.

 

[redjade]

I think you've got some good ideas in there but I think it could be a bit more refined, then again I've used photoshop for over a decade so I have a very high standard, I can see all the techniques and tools you've used and can rate how you've used them ;) I think you have a lot of potential, 2 hours to make that isn't bad. I'll be honest, you're a novice, but really its not important, whats important is ideas and creativity, your skills with the program will imrprove over time and I can see you have very nice ideas. I think my favourite parts are the snow effect, and the distorted effect on the woman with the red, and the bottom right area with the text is nice aswell. Bits I don't like are the edges of the snow, doesn't look integrated propely, also the green on the woman's hat, same problem as the snow. There are a few brushes you can use to give a grainy effect on edges, that would work nice with the snow I think. Main thing is integration, making it look less like a collage and more like a scene.

I think your opinion is interesting. Thank you for your comment. Just so you know. I have been using Photoshop for 4 or 5 years. I didnt want the piece to be perfect. I intended to incorporate textures, effects and other skills to the table. So it wouldn't look like every other graphic art piece you would see online . (A artist touch)

I think you've got some good ideas in there but I think it could be a bit more refined, then again I've used photoshop for over a decade so I have a very high standard, I can see all the techniques and tools you've used and can rate how you've used them ;)

But isn't that difficult without knowing what she intended to do? Otherwise, who is to say that she didn't mean to do exactly what she did?

Bits I don't like are the edges of the snow, doesn't look integrated propely, also the green on the woman's hat, same problem as the snow.

But with art, who is to say what is "proper" - wouldn't that also depend on what she intended to do?

Main thing is integration, making it look less like a collage and more like a scene.

Unless you want to make it look a bit like a collage :P

I like it, has a sort of surreal quality to it. The parts that Russ mentioned do kinda look out of place, but I think that kinda adds to the surreal quality. And that girl with red hair looks like she's deep in thought, like the picture in your avatar.

A great place to go to see some photoshop masters at work is worth1000.com - and if you join the community you can pick up many tips and tricks.

Thx you for the comment and the link. :)

 

[Russ]

I think you've got some good ideas in there but I think it could be a bit more refined, then again I've used photoshop for over a decade so I have a very high standard, I can see all the techniques and tools you've used and can rate how you've used them ;)

But isn't that difficult without knowing what she intended to do? Otherwise, who is to say that she didn't mean to do exactly what she did?

Well, rate them by my opinion :) but it is more complicated than that. Of course what I think is better is subjective, I think the parts I mentioned let the work down, because I have seen it so many times from when I was learning, or from when other people are learning. There is a small area where I can be wrong, although its worth considering, I didn't want to open that up because I didn't want to influence the response. And I am not saying redjade is a liar, I am just saying its a possibility (ego), I don't know redjade afterall. Now from your post I have no idea if she is going along with what you're saying or not, and the whole thing has become more complicated ;)

Bits I don't like are the edges of the snow, doesn't look integrated propely, also the green on the woman's hat, same problem as the snow.

But with art, who is to say what is "proper" - wouldn't that also depend on what she intended to do?

Of course, but I see no problem with what I said. Is it not OK for me not to like something? ;) And there is a "proper" way to integrate things like snow, because you see it in the real world. The difference is whether you want it to look proper or not. And I think it doesn't look proper, and it is not an original way of making it look "not proper" either, IMO.

Main thing is integration, making it look less like a collage and more like a scene.

Unless you want to make it look a bit like a collage :P

I hope you are genuine and not just looking for a chance to be right! ;D anyway, all I meant is thats the main thing I don't like about it, hmm I just find it offputting, probably because like I said I can see all the effects and its just too recognisable to me, also it just happens to look like a collage in the areas where it also looks a bit ametuer, I think a lot of photoshop artists would pick up on it. It actually takes away the surreal nature of the picture, for me.

I think your opinion is interesting. Thank you for your comment. Just so you know. I have been using Photoshop for 4 or 5 years. I didnt want the piece to be perfect. I intended to incorporate textures, effects and other skills to the table. So it wouldn't look like every other graphic art piece you would see online . (A artist touch)

What you are saying doesn't gel with me, the bits I am talking about do look like every ameture bit like that I have ever seen, so in that respect its not unique in that area, its unique if everyone was very good at photoshop, but they're not. And also the bits which look ameture are exactly the kind of thing an ameture would do, because its hard and takes a lot of experience to do quickly. But yeah maybe I am wrong and I accept that possibility.

By the way 4 or 5 years is still pretty novice IMO ;D Well, depending on if you worked with it every day, especially at work, then probably not. I get the feeling you do this in your spare time though. But again I could be wrong.

 

[anart]

I hope you genuine and not just looking for a chance to be right! ;D

Interesting question, Russ, because I was thinking the same thing about your responses. Seems you have quite a bit of ego tied up in these responses of yours - how identified are you with this?

 

[Bernhard]

I like the red with the green. The title fits the mood.
Thanks for sharing!

 

[Miss Isness]

I like the ideas, but I actually agree with what Russ has said about the collage effect. I'm no expert on this type of art though. I just know what I like.

I do think experienced artists are capable of seeing the weakness in other artists' work. It's really difficult to achieve perfection. I think Russ was actually trying to help. He balanced his criticism with compliments, so if Redjade really wants to know where there's room for improvement it shouldn't be too difficult to take his suggestions in.

One of the difficult things about being an artist is exposing your work to criticism, but if you want your work to be seen that comes with the territory. Redjade asked what we think, and Russ responded. Nothing wrong with that as far as I can see.

Also, it's common for artists to accommodate their weaknesses by saying they took the easy way out intentionally, but that is just the ego talking. It's difficult to accept that what may be perfection to the artist at a particular stage of development is not necessarily the height of artistic expression. I say this from experience, as my fragile ego often has difficulty with criticism, but looking back I can see that it has always served me to consider it, and try to grow from it.

 

[redjade]

I agree with Miss Isness. I did ask. And so I did get some pros and cons. I want to know my weakness and ideas from other artists. I do agree that I still have a lot to learn. Very different from drawing on paper vs computer. I guess, it is how you look at it. I know everyone has a right to they're opinion. I think it is what you do with the information one gathers from people.

This piece I did spend more time on then the first.
I would like any input. Many thanks for your comments and links.

Click here to enlarge

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Of course what I think is better is subjective, I think the parts I mentioned let the work down, because I have seen it so many times from when I was learning, or from when other people are learning.

Well I know what you're saying, but there is avant-garde art that looks like it was drawn by a 4-yr old that is famous and widely acclaimed and hangs in museums of art. So all I am saying is, while I agree that in terms of integration and realism and believability there is much room for improvement in that picture, it looks to me like you assumed that this is what redjade was going for to begin with, but is that a safe assumption?

Like taking "Black Square" by Kazimir Malevich. Every 3 yr old drew it at one time or another, and yet, it is one of the most famous and priceless pieces of art of the 20th century. I don't think he was trying to draw a landscape and just happened to fail miserably lol (erm, or so we think!).

Black Square:

That one looks far more amateur than what redjade did, in fact it wouldn't even make any sense to judge in terms of integration and realism. But shouldn't this question then be asked for any piece of art - did the artist just not have enough skill to make it more realistic, or did he/she end up with exactly what was intended? The only reason I said what I said is cuz it just looked like you assumed the former and did not consider the latter.

 

[Tigersoap]

Hi Redjade,
I'll add my critics to the ones Russ already said for both pieces.

Photomanipulation is a specific area of PS and it needs a lot of practice and skills to pull it off correctly because it involves knowing many aspects of how to find the right colour balance, retouching the pictures , masking and so on.
Moreover you need to be a good compositioner and have an eye for the overall design.

I don't think the textures are seemingly integrated, the different elements don't mix well together.
The composition in the first piece seems ok but there is too much differences on the various elements and it gives the impression of an illustration that has been put togehter haphazardly.
Technically, it's so-so.

And yes, we can more objectively judge the artwork because we do not judge the work only on our subjective impressions but on objective techniques that she used.

Also,we're not talking about "objective" art to begin with.

Without having reached some level of technique and artistic skills there is no way you can turn back an find back collage (or paiting) spontaneity in your works.

I think you could improve your skills better, you already have a good grasp of the basics so keep practicing if your heart is in it.
If there are weaknesses, I think it's better that they be pointed out than not.
It's no the DA forum in here ;)

I didnt want the piece to be perfect. I intended to incorporate textures, effects and other skills to the table. So it wouldn't look like every other graphic art piece you would see online . (A artist touch)

Although I think you're doing your best in regards of your current skills and abilities, you still want to protect yourself from criticism by diminishing the weaknesses of the artwork.
Maybe you're identifying yourself as an unique artist.

I used exactly the same kind of defense a few years ago and it was just to protect the idea of myself being a good artist.


I know DA pretty well, it's too easy to get wonderfull comments from people and think you're a good designer, illustrator, photographer and so on.
It's great but it's just an ego-trip.
If that's what you're looking for it's fine, no harm in that.

I know, I have been looking hungrily for attention for years to compensate for the lack of love and my parents gave me.

I've learned so much more by critcism (justified) than by any compliments, yeah it hurts but it's worth it in the end.

Something I want to add is that it's by making art that you feel comfortable with without the need to want to please other persons or for deep-seated emotional reasons is much more gratifying.
This can be a great tool to know yourself, a healing device as well.
Look deeper.

That one looks far more amateur than what redjade did, in fact it wouldn't even make any sense to judge in terms of integration and realism. But shouldn't this question then be asked for any piece of art - did the artist just not have enough skill to make it more realistic, or did he/she end up with exactly what was intended? The only reason I said what I said is cuz it just looked like you assumed the former and did not consider the latter.

That's not really a fair argument because you're taking an art piece out of its context and out of the whole career of an artist.
Although I agree that it's difficult to appreciate an art piece that looks like it was made in 5 minute (and for some I guess that's true.) the context should be considered as well.
You can't compare Malevich to my paiting neighbour for example.

If someone plays the piano with one finger, that's not his style, its because he's lacking technique.
Of course there is always exception to the rule, but then you know that the person has some intuitive artistic ability to begin with.

It's not only skills we're talking about but you either are a good/great artist or you're not.
The thing is are you (not you specifically) sufficiently courageous enough to admit it ?

 

[Russ]

I hope you genuine and not just looking for a chance to be right! ;D

Interesting question, Russ, because I was thinking the same thing about your responses. Seems you have quite a bit of ego tied up in these responses of yours - how identified are you with this?

I suppose I'm a little bit identified with it, but very little. I really don't care that much at all though (too much experience), also that was a bit of a tounge in cheek comment, not very serious (but it did have a small amount of seriousness in there, because I think there is at least a small chance of it).

Scio, I do know what you mean, but its a bit different with photoshop. I think there is a very small percentage chance that what you're saying is correct. And I think you may find that the painting you posted is quite nice in the flesh, very subtle... textures etc, subtle colours. Its a very different kind of thing IMO. Maybe you would understand what I mean a bit better if I put it like this - bad singers vs good ones. You could easily say, "oh yes but its not them being bad singers, thats the way they wanted it to sound". I don't know how good an example that is, but hopefully its not too bad a relation between the two concepts ;)

Oh and actually I don't mean bad singers necessarily, but you know, can't hit a couple of notes here and there. I don't want you to think I am saying you're a bad artist, redjade, not saying that at all. In fact I will say that using filters etc in photoshop is more likely to hide your talent than enhance it, and make it less unique (but I admit, not always, it depends).

 

[nemo]

Like taking "Black Square" by Kazimir Malevich. Every 3 yr old drew it at one time
or another, and yet, it is one of the most famous and priceless pieces of art of the 20th century.

I do wonder if the "Black Square" were so famous and priceless if more people were aware of the pre-dadaistic french avantgarde
art group "The Incoherents". One of it`s members, P. Bilhaud produced the very first monochrome (also black) picture in 1882!!
If this group, along with another group, "The Hydropathes" became better known, Art History would have to agree that many Modern
Art movements, especially the Dadaists were not nearly as innovative as it seems. Just compare Duchamps Mona Lisa picture "LHOOQ",
1919 with Eugene Bataille`s "Mona Lisa with a pipe", 1887 (!!!!!!!!!).
www(dot)heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.3.INCOHERANTS.htm for more info.
Since I personally dislike photoshopped Collages/Illustrations it`s not my place to critizicize redjade`s pictures, but have to say that I
found Russ`comment constructive.

I've learned so much more by critcism (justified) than by any compliments, yeah it hurts but it's worth it in the end.

Totally agree with you! You do some picture most people`ll tell you "Ohhh, it`s sooo beauuutiful!", doesn`t matter if it`s great or crap.
If somebody has the clout to critizice your creation, you first go AAAAAAARGHHHH!!! Then, if you`re not too "self-important" you consider
the value of the critique. Here one needs discernment. I find it very difficult to differentiate between the Negative Introject Voice and some
justified Self-Criticism. Same applies to criticism. Reminds me of Gurdjieff`s story of his dying father`s last words!

 

[JonnyRadar]

"oh yes but its not them being bad singers, thats the way they wanted it to sound"

er... bob dylan? there are/were incredible musicians who had "bad" voices, depending on your perspective, who climbed to the "top" of ther respective fields of artistic expression. i love him though, not razzing on dylan =D

speaking to photoshop, i've been using photoshop for approximately 10 years. i eat pixels and bezels three meals a day and sometimes have dreams where raster and vector battle to the death, and i can say that people who are experienced with photoshop like to razzle and dazzle people about how good they are or what level they're at, which is a useless exercise in trying to show off how much you know or how high you are up the design totem pole.

i have also been guilty of being a design snob and am trying to change my behavior in that area. Russ, this leads me to point out that your responses are comparable to someone who, say, has an in-depth knowledge of automobiles and goes around giving crap to people about why they can't change their own oil or don't know how many cylinders are in their engine. it's just my own opinion that putting it into a context of talent, or levels of talent, when it comes to artistic expression as long as someone has put their creative juices into it and ended up with something meaningful, it's beautiful no matter what.

these two pieces that redjade's posted don't seem to be pieces for an exhibit, or some kind of heavy professional project, so why the razzing? sure we can banter about all day long about what filters to use and how close the feathering matches or whether or not the resolution of the images blend together or whether it's supposed to be a "collage" or a "scene"... but what happened to "hey, that looks sweet! got anything else to show?"

from my point of view it's art, and personally i think it's totally beautiful. REDJADE, you should count yourself fortunate to be a person who has the ability to express yourself visually like this. KEEP IT UP!

EDIT: ok, i need to check my own pride in some of these statements. russ, all i'm sayin' is you came across a bit harsh, but that may have simply been my own perception of it.

 

[Tigersoap]

and i can say that people who are experienced with photoshop like to razzle and dazzle people about how good they are or what level they're at, which is a useless exercise in trying to show off how much you know or how high you are up the design totem pole.

From my experience those who are really good don't think that they are (with no false modesty) unless they are really unsecure about their works, wich they identify with osit.
And I do really know some famous illustrators, i am not making this up.

it's just my own opinion that putting it into a context of talent, or levels of talent, when it comes to artistic expression as long as someone has put their creative juices into it and ended up with something meaningful, it's beautiful no matter what.

I agree with you, you can have less skills and still do something great.
But there you have to know yourself a bit so you don't overshot your goal and suffer from hubris.
It would be like the Bass player of the Ramones trying to play in Primus.

It would be great if people could all express themselves artistically, but that's not true, some can't, that does not mean they cannot create something of value, probably less egocentric, it's just different osit.
Know what you can and can't do, if you don't, try it, don't bother asking the approval of everyone then.
Artists more than anyone else will be totally identified with their art, their skills, if i remember correctly Gurdjieff said "they are the worse.".
He is right, I am one of the deluded people.