A new creation.

[domi]

Russ and I might have be too blunt, but for my part I would not say it's great when it shows obvious flaws.
I can tell because I have the experience (while doing something totally different) and I can make comparaison with other artists in the same field.

I have gotten the impression from both of you in this thread that you're approaching redjade's work from a more left-brain point of view (Russ more so than Tigersoap). Osit.
I am just wondering if is a result of the work you do? Is there perhaps business environment that creates this rational "pressure"?


j0da: thanks for the itchstudios link.

 

[Tigersoap]

Why does this 'play a part in it' for you, tigersoap? I hazard to suggest that you are suggesting that a female is too 'fragile' to be criticized, thus, since she's a 'girl', as you put it, that people are hesitating? Hopefully I'm misunderstanding you.

Hello Anart,

I don't understand why you would think that because I did criticize her works regardless of her gender.
People who are working in the digital/art field have made some criticisms, people who aren't have made more positive comments, so I was wondering why there was such a difference between the comments.

I indeed was wondering if her gender was influencing some comments because I have seen this dynamic being played out in other forums or art sites so I was wondering if this wasn't going on in here as well.

I'll explain myself :

In the Deviant Art website, many people, women and men alike, are showing off their art and/or pictures of themselves, only to boost their self-image.
Everyone is eagerly waiting for comments praising their art or looks.
Nothing can be more narcississtic than that.
There is always a bit of flirting going on between the two genders.
Hence the comments are always biaised because of that. I was wondering if this was the case here too.

The artistic quality has been more and more put aside, thankfully there are still many people doing it for the art itself and who are not looking this constant need of approval.
So that's where it bothered me because it seemed to me that Redjade was not asking to appraise her art only but herself as well by linking up her deviant art gallery.

I was wondering if she wasn't posting here with the same dynamic than on Deviant art. Although in a less obvious way.

So yeah it does play a part but in the sense you mean it for me, there was a context in which I made the remark.

It's clear for me that any art discussion will trigger reactions in me because I am involved emotionally with it.

I hope my explanation cleared up my posts.

 

[Tigersoap]

I have gotten the impression from both of you in this thread that you're approaching redjade's work from a more left-brain point of view (Russ more so than Tigersoap). Osit.
I am just wondering if is a result of the work you do? Is there perhaps business environment that creates this rational "pressure"?

Hello Domivr,

No. That's a wrong assumption but I understand why you say it.
When I look at an artwork, the emotional side comes first, then the more critical approach comes in.
I love collages works for example. They are not technical but needs to be very well balanced in terms of shape, colours and subject to be of interest to me.
I always need to be "touched" in some ways by the artwork but that does not mean I would discard right away the technical side. It's not that clear cut, there is always a context, a kind of balance.

I see many very technical digital works and most of them leave me cold but that's rather subjective of course.
I don't know, with experience you start to get a sense of what's working or not, regardless of your personal tastes.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

People who are working in the digital/art field have made some criticisms, people who aren't have made more positive comments, so I was wondering why there was such a difference between the comments.

That could be true, but I think it's also possible that not all people working in digital/art field chose to let this be known.

I indeed was wondering if her gender was influencing some comments because I have seen this dynamic being played out in other forums or art sites so I was wondering if this wasn't going on in here as well.

My take on that is while there are objective elements in creating art like skills with the tools and all that, whether someone likes the end result is subjective. This seems to be also indicative by the variety of thoughts about art in this thread alone. I don't think that anyone's opinion on what is important in art is more relevant than anyone else's - the value that redjade or any artist would see in said opinion is only how much that opinion addresses what the artist perceives is important for what they are trying to accomplish, osit.

So personally, no I don't have gender-influenced reasons for anything I said. My main reason for not being more "critical" is because I don't know what exactly redjade is looking to do and what kind of input she's looking for. And while I may very well be wrong about this, I did perceive what appeared to be some ego involved in Russ's initial comments, which was the only reason why I made a comment about it, not to "defend" redjade for some internal consideration reason.

Having said that, I don't actually disagree with Russ's comments from the perspective that he was making them. There are certain accepted by consensus "standards" in specific areas of art by which someone with more experience/knowledge can measure someone else's progress in that area. But I'm still just not sure how useful it is to apply those standards to someone's work without ascertaining what they were trying to achieve and how, etc.

Like this list of art "styles" (which itself is incomplete as there's no limit):
_http://library.thinkquest.org/J001159/artstyle.htm

Wouldn't they all be assessed by different standards? I don't want to keep sounding like a broken record tho - maybe I'm just not understanding the answers being provided. Art is one of those "fuzzy" things that seems to be not so easy to fully grok, at least for me.

 

[Tigersoap]

That could be true, but I think it's also possible that not all people working in digital/art field chose to let this be known.

Then, we will never know ;)

My take on that is while there are objective elements in creating art like skills with the tools and all that, whether someone likes the end result is subjective. This seems to be also indicative by the variety of thoughts about art in this thread alone.I don't think that anyone's opinion on what is important in art is more relevant than anyone else's

Yup, I agree.
Still there will be an appreciation that will be relative to the level of "knowledge" or interest about art (or any other subject) that the viewer will have. Either emotional, intellectual or both osit.

- the value that redjade or any artist would see in said opinion is only how much that opinion addresses what the artist perceives is important for what they are trying to accomplish, osit.

Well wouldn't it be un/consciously selecting what you want to hear ?

And while I may very well be wrong about this, I did perceive what appeared to be some ego involved in Russ's initial comments, which was the only reason why I made a comment about it, not to "defend" redjade for some internal consideration reason.

Then how come no one saw the ego involved in Redjade's posts ?
What's making her immune to this ?

I apologize if my gender comment was taken wrongly because I really do not think it is usually an issue with me (if it is please, help me out) on another hand, it would be ignoring that it does influence people views and judgement, unless you're mature(?) enough to go beyond that.
Otherwise many websites such as myspace or facebook wouldn't be that successful osit.
Maybe in this case it was not relevant.

 

[anart]

Hello Anart,

I don't understand why you would think that because I did criticize her works regardless of her gender.
People who are working in the digital/art field have made some criticisms, people who aren't have made more positive comments, so I was wondering why there was such a difference between the comments.

I indeed was wondering if her gender was influencing some comments because I have seen this dynamic being played out in other forums or art sites so I was wondering if this wasn't going on in here as well.

I'll explain myself :

In the Deviant Art website, many people, women and men alike, are showing off their art and/or pictures of themselves, only to boost their self-image.
Everyone is eagerly waiting for comments praising their art or looks.
Nothing can be more narcississtic than that.
There is always a bit of flirting going on between the two genders.
Hence the comments are always biaised because of that. I was wondering if this was the case here too.

Hi tigersoap, I see what you're saying and it sounds a bit like you are projecting the behavior of the people on other forums to the behavior of people on this forum, which is not really a very stable premise.

So that's where it bothered me because it seemed to me that Redjade was not asking to appraise her art only but herself as well by linking up her deviant art gallery.

I was wondering if she wasn't posting here with the same dynamic than on Deviant art. Although in a less obvious way.

I understand your point and see why you would think such a thing, and, I can even see how someone posting their art and a link to their site could be seen as self-important and looking for attention. It seems that you might be a little hypersensitive to this, in this scenario, because you are personally identified with art in general - thus you are 'taking it personally' on some level and it is disturbing to you. It almost seems as if your dislike of the deviant art site is coming into play in your reaction to redjade's postings here - and - again, you are taking it 'personally' in some way.

So yeah it does play a part but in the sense you mean it for me, there was a context in which I made the remark.

It's clear for me that any art discussion will trigger reactions in me because I am involved emotionally with it.

I hope my explanation cleared up my posts.

Yep, that's pretty much it and it is an interesting dynamic for you to examine - I mean, in the grand scheme of things is it really worth getting this 'offended' by it? Why is this identification so strong in you that it really annoys the heck out of you that she is doing this? In short, what aspect of yourself are you seeing in her behavior that disturbs you so (since almost always, anytime we are disturbed by someone else's behavior it is because some part of ourself recognizes 'us' in it - a part of 'us' that we wish were not there).

It's just something to consider, really - that's all.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

- the value that redjade or any artist would see in said opinion is only how much that opinion addresses what the artist perceives is important for what they are trying to accomplish, osit.

Well wouldn't it be un/consciously selecting what you want to hear ?

Not necessarily, I think those are 2 separate concepts. You can still understand and acknowledge the comments that are not relevant to you, you are just not finding them useful for your purposes. Like, if someone says "this color seems wrong" and your whole point of the art was the shape and the color is of little or no importance, then you could still acknowledge that the comment may be true, but with respect to shape (which is what you were focusing on), it isn't helpful. Of course, you'd probably have to specify what your focus is, otherwise how will anyone know what is useful for your purposes?

Well it's still technically "selecting what you want to hear" but for a practical reason, not an ego-based self-delusion reason, if that makes sense.

 

[Tigersoap]

Yep, that's pretty much it and it is an interesting dynamic for you to examine - I mean, in the grand scheme of things is it really worth getting this 'offended' by it? Why is this identification so strong in you that it really annoys the heck out of you that she is doing this? In short, what aspect of yourself are you seeing in her behavior that disturbs you so (since almost always, anytime we are disturbed by someone else's behavior it is because some part of ourself recognizes 'us' in it - a part of 'us' that we wish were not there).
It's just something to consider, really - that's all.

Thanks Anart,
Don't worry I am grateful to be able to speak my mind and be shown my blind spots and programs.
There would not be much point of coming here otherwise osit.

I've already pondered a lot my reaction to this because I can see it unfolding without being able to do something about it for the moment.
I see many different little things that coalesced into my responses, one being ashamed of my old behavior (looking for attention at all costs) that I can spot (or think I can) in Redjade.
And the desire to be understood and to be right no matter what, which is futile when you think of it.

And regarding the mix up of forum behaviors, I think I got reactive because I feel strongly that this forum should be protected against such ego-trip. I apologize if I went into masked avenger mode.

Too much tiger, not enough soap.