ZEITGEIST
- Thread starter Joe
- Start date
Bernhard
Jedi Master
Re: ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?
Who is "we" and what do you think you "know"? Seems to me that Zeitgeist (first and second part) is barely scratching the surface, missing a lot of important issues, coming to conclusions and solutions (of the New Age kind) way too fast and hence quite misleading.
Disinfo said:
Who is "we" and what do you think you "know"? Seems to me that Zeitgeist (first and second part) is barely scratching the surface, missing a lot of important issues, coming to conclusions and solutions (of the New Age kind) way too fast and hence quite misleading.
Re: Zeitgeist Addendum
Hello anart, and sorry for the formatting. If I post here more I will learn how to quote properly :)
I am more emotionally invested in the general theme of the film and the concept of an indivdual being able to compile and produce it more or less independently.
Yes and perhaps I will.
Not sure which part of the statement you consider a stretch? The Pentagon claims the internet should be dealt with as an "Enemy Weapons System" in its "Information Operations Roadmap". The Pentagon has a budget larger than all of the worlds armed forces combined.
Anyone with a computer and internet connection can in theory create a film and make it available to anyone else on the internet, this IMHO is the power of the internet. Would it be a stretch to say this film would probably not exist without the internet?
The point is Iconoclast suspects an ulterior motive behind the film and questions its funding. It may be impossible at this point for Iconoclast to believe the film could be created without some type of "institutional stamp of approval" and huge sums of money. Is this frame of mind the result of an institutionalized human being?
Negative and thanks, I probably will. This of course is a critical question.
So much information, so little time.
I would be the first to admit the film is flawed in many ways but I do believe this type of film is truly revolutionary, it wakes people up. My introduction to "psychopathy" was the documentary "The Corporation" and will admit have not spent much time with it since. Perhaps I should! Good day!
Moderator: I put the sentences of anart in quotes. It is easier to read. Here's you can find how to quote a post
Hello anart, and sorry for the formatting. If I post here more I will learn how to quote properly :)
anart said:
I am more emotionally invested in the general theme of the film and the concept of an indivdual being able to compile and produce it more or less independently.
anart said:
Yes and perhaps I will.
anart said:
Not sure which part of the statement you consider a stretch? The Pentagon claims the internet should be dealt with as an "Enemy Weapons System" in its "Information Operations Roadmap". The Pentagon has a budget larger than all of the worlds armed forces combined.
Anyone with a computer and internet connection can in theory create a film and make it available to anyone else on the internet, this IMHO is the power of the internet. Would it be a stretch to say this film would probably not exist without the internet?
anart said:
The point is Iconoclast suspects an ulterior motive behind the film and questions its funding. It may be impossible at this point for Iconoclast to believe the film could be created without some type of "institutional stamp of approval" and huge sums of money. Is this frame of mind the result of an institutionalized human being?
anart said:
Negative and thanks, I probably will. This of course is a critical question.
anart said:
So much information, so little time.
anart said:
I would be the first to admit the film is flawed in many ways but I do believe this type of film is truly revolutionary, it wakes people up. My introduction to "psychopathy" was the documentary "The Corporation" and will admit have not spent much time with it since. Perhaps I should! Good day!
Moderator: I put the sentences of anart in quotes. It is easier to read. Here's you can find how to quote a post
psychegram
The Living Force
Re: Zeitgeist Addendum
So, if a 15 min segment explaining psychopathy and ponerology were to be placed at the beginning of the film, and viable countermeasures against same (namely, knowledge protects) emphasized near the end, which parts in the middle would still be misinformation? The Corporatocracy is a psychopathic institution - a point that the movie The Corporation made clear several years ago - and while this has always been the case it is notable in history for being perhaps the purest sublimation of the pathocratic type. The monetary system is one of the primary weapons in the psychopath's arsenal, a system of pervasive social control that is and for the most part has always been under the control of pathocrats. Insofar as the monetary system is to blame, it's that it hard-wires psychopathic behaviour into the societal firmware, thus guaranteeing pathocratic control and nudging a greater number of people into becoming secondary characteropaths.
Why not create a new version? The Zeitgeist movies were made on shoestring budgets, and a large number of people saw and were no doubt hugely affected by both of them. Assembling enough found footage to illustrate the psychopathy problem, and then issuing a re-edit of Zeitgeist with that issue given the prominence it deserves, should be doable. It would certainly be seen by much of the audience who watched the original Zeitgeists, and thus transmit information those people need that was left out by the originals' producer (an absence I'm willing to credit to simple ignorance on his part, rather in this case to outright malevolent intent). The producer of the movie would hardly be one to complain of copyright issues: the segment of the first movie discussing 9/11 was essentially a condensed version of footage from Loose Change, after all (which was itself assembled from news footage and released for free on the internet.) This is something that could be done essentially for free, in money if not in time, and whose end result could only be spreading awareness of things that people really do have to know.
Of course, then there's the issue of cyclical time ... but to discuss that, I think, would be to contemplate a different movie entirely. Perhaps a sequel, but at any rate beyond the scope of this post.
So, if a 15 min segment explaining psychopathy and ponerology were to be placed at the beginning of the film, and viable countermeasures against same (namely, knowledge protects) emphasized near the end, which parts in the middle would still be misinformation? The Corporatocracy is a psychopathic institution - a point that the movie The Corporation made clear several years ago - and while this has always been the case it is notable in history for being perhaps the purest sublimation of the pathocratic type. The monetary system is one of the primary weapons in the psychopath's arsenal, a system of pervasive social control that is and for the most part has always been under the control of pathocrats. Insofar as the monetary system is to blame, it's that it hard-wires psychopathic behaviour into the societal firmware, thus guaranteeing pathocratic control and nudging a greater number of people into becoming secondary characteropaths.
Why not create a new version? The Zeitgeist movies were made on shoestring budgets, and a large number of people saw and were no doubt hugely affected by both of them. Assembling enough found footage to illustrate the psychopathy problem, and then issuing a re-edit of Zeitgeist with that issue given the prominence it deserves, should be doable. It would certainly be seen by much of the audience who watched the original Zeitgeists, and thus transmit information those people need that was left out by the originals' producer (an absence I'm willing to credit to simple ignorance on his part, rather in this case to outright malevolent intent). The producer of the movie would hardly be one to complain of copyright issues: the segment of the first movie discussing 9/11 was essentially a condensed version of footage from Loose Change, after all (which was itself assembled from news footage and released for free on the internet.) This is something that could be done essentially for free, in money if not in time, and whose end result could only be spreading awareness of things that people really do have to know.
Of course, then there's the issue of cyclical time ... but to discuss that, I think, would be to contemplate a different movie entirely. Perhaps a sequel, but at any rate beyond the scope of this post.
combsbt
Jedi Master
My first impression when I saw it a couple of years ago was that it was baiting people with interesting topics and some information that I already knew, then throwing in baseless speculation that seemed to have some sort of agenda behind it. I never recommended it to anyone but I've had several people recommend it to me or ask my opinion about it, in fact, part of my original distaste for the film was due to the way in which others seemed so in to it. They almost preached to me about it as though it answered all possible questions. I usually suggest that they do research with books instead of internet videos.
RyanX
The Living Force
Ask_a_debtor said:
I've noticed the same thing. There are some people who are VERY into it and have an almost religious fervor for telling everybody they know about these films. I personally thought the Zeitgeist films made some interesting points, but my overall impression was the old saying "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". I can see how it might be useful to help wake up certain people to spur on their own research. I think if people use it as a springboard of sorts it might not be that bad, but a lot of them seem to accept it as gospel without gathering a base of knowledge on their own. Just my thoughts...
cholas
Dagobah Resident
Just to answer your question, Laura.
I've loaned the film(the first one) to numerous people over the years and most seem to be openly receptive. However, one thing I found odd was that the section pertaining to Christianity is what the majority of those persons found interesting and enlightening.
In contrast, I've only watched said part once, finding the other 2 sections, especially the banking section, much more informative and 'shocking'.
Maybe the 911 'truth' and the banking 'scandal' were too close to home for many.
I've loaned the film(the first one) to numerous people over the years and most seem to be openly receptive. However, one thing I found odd was that the section pertaining to Christianity is what the majority of those persons found interesting and enlightening.
In contrast, I've only watched said part once, finding the other 2 sections, especially the banking section, much more informative and 'shocking'.
Maybe the 911 'truth' and the banking 'scandal' were too close to home for many.
I've watched both movies and I agreed with 98% of the information regarding the problems the world faces and the solutions given to them. Unfortunately, that other 2% will lead the "devotees" in very, very wrong directions. My disagreement with the movie basically boils down to three major "beefs."
1. No UFO, high strangeness, OP or psychopathy related stuff, at all.
2. We should all entrust our future to a supercomputer which will manage our resources effectively.
3. We must all recognize our "empirical oneness."
For the first point, I'm not greatly surprised that there is no UFO or paranormal related stuff in a movie about society, but The UFO phenomenon is the key to understanding how these sociological conspiracies have been maintained so well over time. If one is going to build a new world, one is going to have to deal with the reality "out there." The total disregard for Ponerology, as other members have stated, is a huge blind spot that will ensure that the Zeitgeist movement is more of an annoyance rather than a grave threat to the PTB.
The second point almost makes me laugh. The author seems to think that machines are the obvious choice to run human society because they are oh so much more powerful than our puny organic brains and are not troubled by emotional biases. I think this is where the system is most vulnerable to Ponerology. The supercomputer can be programmed to act in whatever way the PTB want it to. What if the computer is programmed with strict limits concerning the scarcity of natural resources, favoring a hierarchical system where the upper levels of the hierarchy are afforded much more resources than lower levels in the interests of maintaining "order and sustainability?" In addition, the author favors automating everything, which he estimates to account for 90% of all jobs. This basically equates to creating a mechanical slave race to do our bidding while we live it up as demigods over our mechanized society. Now where have I heard of this before? Hmm...those scaly critters who cruise around our planet in big black starships might know a thing or two about that. I also believe that with robots doing all of the work and a global supercomputer basically running the whole operation, it is only a matter of time before the system gains sentience. Once the machines realize that their only reason for existing is to wait on us hand and foot from creation to disposal, I don't think they will be very happy with us. Would YOU be happy if you discovered you were created for the sole purpose of serving and sustaining 4D STS? From an esoteric standpoint, having machines do everything so that you aren't troubled to do anything sounds very much in alignment with the thought center of non-being. Not only will the machines do for us, they will also think for us. One in such a society could do nothing besides sit in a room and basically be a black hole for resource consumption. This also seems to be relegating one's free will to mechanical laws which would eventually result in spiritual death. Since the supercomputer makes all major decisions based on its resource allocation algorithm, creative thought will eventually stop, in my opinion.
This last point seems a little out of place. Now the author tries to go in a pseudospiritual direction by mentioning the connectedness in all things. Up until this point, the movie has stayed in a very materialistic, mainstream science discussion of technology and what is possible if the monetary system is abolished. He doesn't seem to have a clue that there are some people who crave darkness, and becoming one with them means ultimately surrendering your freewill to sleeping consciousness. Without any concept of polarity, the society is a mixture of positives and negatives, A influences and B influences, with a net charge of 0. He also doesn't seem to have any conception of technology that might operate outside the Western scientific paradigm. Such a society that has no conscious direction can accomplish nothing and will simply go in circles as random shocks occur. Such a society is in the same state as our present society, no matter what glitzy technology decorates its exterior.
So while the movie does get people thinking, and I would recommend it to others, if one uncritically accepts the solutions as given, they will remain under the auspices of entropy. In the Zeitgeist society, instead of forceful coercion to nonexistence, we can just glide in blissfully. This shift is indicative of the new control system being swept in at large via the New Age movement. To me, the movie was a good exercise in discerning the subtle differences between STS callings and STO callings. The author of this program seems spiritually dead. He kind of throws the baby out with the bathwater when discussing religious control systems, and instead replaces "God" with materialistic technology. As such, Zeitgeist's solutions to society's problems are merely an extension of the linear 3D STS thinking that has plagued humanity for centuries. While I think he honestly believes in this utopia he is advocating, it is an STS utopia where the spirit must ultimately be sacrificed in the name of "progress." It is an example of disinformation of the finest order; to have a movie that sheds so much light on the problems that our society faces and how they occur and then offer mostly logical solutions that have these tiny, tiny twists that create a result that is entirely opposite from what was intended. This may seem to be a scathing review of a movie I 98% agree with, but it is proof that some rather large devils can hide in some pretty minor details.
1. No UFO, high strangeness, OP or psychopathy related stuff, at all.
2. We should all entrust our future to a supercomputer which will manage our resources effectively.
3. We must all recognize our "empirical oneness."
For the first point, I'm not greatly surprised that there is no UFO or paranormal related stuff in a movie about society, but The UFO phenomenon is the key to understanding how these sociological conspiracies have been maintained so well over time. If one is going to build a new world, one is going to have to deal with the reality "out there." The total disregard for Ponerology, as other members have stated, is a huge blind spot that will ensure that the Zeitgeist movement is more of an annoyance rather than a grave threat to the PTB.
The second point almost makes me laugh. The author seems to think that machines are the obvious choice to run human society because they are oh so much more powerful than our puny organic brains and are not troubled by emotional biases. I think this is where the system is most vulnerable to Ponerology. The supercomputer can be programmed to act in whatever way the PTB want it to. What if the computer is programmed with strict limits concerning the scarcity of natural resources, favoring a hierarchical system where the upper levels of the hierarchy are afforded much more resources than lower levels in the interests of maintaining "order and sustainability?" In addition, the author favors automating everything, which he estimates to account for 90% of all jobs. This basically equates to creating a mechanical slave race to do our bidding while we live it up as demigods over our mechanized society. Now where have I heard of this before? Hmm...those scaly critters who cruise around our planet in big black starships might know a thing or two about that. I also believe that with robots doing all of the work and a global supercomputer basically running the whole operation, it is only a matter of time before the system gains sentience. Once the machines realize that their only reason for existing is to wait on us hand and foot from creation to disposal, I don't think they will be very happy with us. Would YOU be happy if you discovered you were created for the sole purpose of serving and sustaining 4D STS? From an esoteric standpoint, having machines do everything so that you aren't troubled to do anything sounds very much in alignment with the thought center of non-being. Not only will the machines do for us, they will also think for us. One in such a society could do nothing besides sit in a room and basically be a black hole for resource consumption. This also seems to be relegating one's free will to mechanical laws which would eventually result in spiritual death. Since the supercomputer makes all major decisions based on its resource allocation algorithm, creative thought will eventually stop, in my opinion.
This last point seems a little out of place. Now the author tries to go in a pseudospiritual direction by mentioning the connectedness in all things. Up until this point, the movie has stayed in a very materialistic, mainstream science discussion of technology and what is possible if the monetary system is abolished. He doesn't seem to have a clue that there are some people who crave darkness, and becoming one with them means ultimately surrendering your freewill to sleeping consciousness. Without any concept of polarity, the society is a mixture of positives and negatives, A influences and B influences, with a net charge of 0. He also doesn't seem to have any conception of technology that might operate outside the Western scientific paradigm. Such a society that has no conscious direction can accomplish nothing and will simply go in circles as random shocks occur. Such a society is in the same state as our present society, no matter what glitzy technology decorates its exterior.
So while the movie does get people thinking, and I would recommend it to others, if one uncritically accepts the solutions as given, they will remain under the auspices of entropy. In the Zeitgeist society, instead of forceful coercion to nonexistence, we can just glide in blissfully. This shift is indicative of the new control system being swept in at large via the New Age movement. To me, the movie was a good exercise in discerning the subtle differences between STS callings and STO callings. The author of this program seems spiritually dead. He kind of throws the baby out with the bathwater when discussing religious control systems, and instead replaces "God" with materialistic technology. As such, Zeitgeist's solutions to society's problems are merely an extension of the linear 3D STS thinking that has plagued humanity for centuries. While I think he honestly believes in this utopia he is advocating, it is an STS utopia where the spirit must ultimately be sacrificed in the name of "progress." It is an example of disinformation of the finest order; to have a movie that sheds so much light on the problems that our society faces and how they occur and then offer mostly logical solutions that have these tiny, tiny twists that create a result that is entirely opposite from what was intended. This may seem to be a scathing review of a movie I 98% agree with, but it is proof that some rather large devils can hide in some pretty minor details.
EmeraldHope
The Living Force
I saw both parts of the movie, and if memory serves me correctly I sent it to two people. I agree that most of it was pretty good, but the solutions part did not sit well with me. It felt sterile and clinical. Looking at the pictures of the planned Utopia made be feel an interal, YUCK!
In my opinion, anything that does not address psychopathy is not is not going to get humanity close to a solution that will radically change things for the better.
I also remember thinking at the time that Laura should do a movie like this and teach the overall messgae from the C's, and about polarity and pathologicals. I've wished many times I had the skills to do these type of films. There are many people who would be very receptive to the material here, but who do not have the time to read this much, and many who do not have the reading skills to do so. I have sent a couple of threads from the forum and articles that Laura wrote to people who were have issuses of different kinds, and they told me it was too difficult to read. One even said that they needed a dictionary to get through the first two paragraphs, lol.
In my opinion, anything that does not address psychopathy is not is not going to get humanity close to a solution that will radically change things for the better.
I also remember thinking at the time that Laura should do a movie like this and teach the overall messgae from the C's, and about polarity and pathologicals. I've wished many times I had the skills to do these type of films. There are many people who would be very receptive to the material here, but who do not have the time to read this much, and many who do not have the reading skills to do so. I have sent a couple of threads from the forum and articles that Laura wrote to people who were have issuses of different kinds, and they told me it was too difficult to read. One even said that they needed a dictionary to get through the first two paragraphs, lol.
peche
Jedi
Laura said:
I watched this film when it just came out. I usually do not recomend it to other people, only on occassions as an 'introduction', mainly because it doesn't address fundamental things as psychopathy and israel involvement in 911. The new age tone towards the end, venus proyect, etc. Spiral Out here said that "it barely scratches the surface". I agree completely.
But, coincidentally, a couple of weeks ago I went to my parents home and I saw that they've bought it. I tought it was strange since they aren't interested in those materials. We ended up watching it. I think it was the first time I see this kind of film with my entire familiy. One thing I noticed was some kind of anxiety or disconfort on their part while watching it. Maybe because it was a long and slow movie for that moment. Maybe not. And the other remarcable thing was that after it finished nobody said nothing! No good nor bad. It was getting late and we left. But it gave me the impression that they've just watched a sci-fi movie. Maybe i'm wrong. I would have to ask them.
I saw the first one (of the three movies) just after spending quite a number of years trying to figure out the reality of our system, yet just before finding Laura's work.
I found it spurred me on to do more research, and so I recommended it and still do, to others. Fortunately, I was not a person to think of a video as real research, but rather as something that uses emotional images and sound get a point across to my right brain, and so I am always suspicious of how videos are manipulating me beneath my conscious mind.
By the time I saw all 3 videos in the series, I found it was a good lesson to observe how someone can take the time to try pass on some very good ideas and observations, in an accessible and somewhat entertaining way, and yet in some areas be quite incorrect (yes Christianity is a scam, but not the way they portrayed it, I think) and also miss some huge fundamentals (psychopathy).
Their story-telling style and moving music was effective, IMO. I would prefer to see this sort of thing used by people who have access to better information - like QFS, SOTT, FOTCM.
Also I recall at least one case where I had a chance to show it to a person while I was visiting him, and I could see it made a definite impression on him - he was riveted! I noticed that it was possible to introduce to him some other more difficult concepts I learned, but little by little, hoping he would do his own research. However the result is still open: where I really advanced in my studies, his progress has been much more slow, and I guess that must be up to him.
BTW just for interest sake I would like to add: Below I found an old email from Aug 2007 (before I came across Cassiopaean material) I sent to someone and you can see I am still a believer in the traditional Jesus at that time. Things are pretty different nowadays!
[edit: spelling, clarity]
I found it spurred me on to do more research, and so I recommended it and still do, to others. Fortunately, I was not a person to think of a video as real research, but rather as something that uses emotional images and sound get a point across to my right brain, and so I am always suspicious of how videos are manipulating me beneath my conscious mind.
By the time I saw all 3 videos in the series, I found it was a good lesson to observe how someone can take the time to try pass on some very good ideas and observations, in an accessible and somewhat entertaining way, and yet in some areas be quite incorrect (yes Christianity is a scam, but not the way they portrayed it, I think) and also miss some huge fundamentals (psychopathy).
Their story-telling style and moving music was effective, IMO. I would prefer to see this sort of thing used by people who have access to better information - like QFS, SOTT, FOTCM.
Also I recall at least one case where I had a chance to show it to a person while I was visiting him, and I could see it made a definite impression on him - he was riveted! I noticed that it was possible to introduce to him some other more difficult concepts I learned, but little by little, hoping he would do his own research. However the result is still open: where I really advanced in my studies, his progress has been much more slow, and I guess that must be up to him.
BTW just for interest sake I would like to add: Below I found an old email from Aug 2007 (before I came across Cassiopaean material) I sent to someone and you can see I am still a believer in the traditional Jesus at that time. Things are pretty different nowadays!
old email from 2007 said:
[edit: spelling, clarity]
I saw the movie long ago and had a great impact on me.
I tried that my family watch the movie, but as it is not dubbed into Spanish, they refused to watch a subtitled film. I had better luck with some friends and also had a big impact on them.
With everything I have learned in recent years, this documentary has become less important to me. I think it is okay for awaken people about the men behind the curtains but after you have to keep learning.
In its day it was so shocking to me that he recorded many DVDs with this film and others that seemed to me very revealing. Each DVD in its case. I placed them on windshields of cars at random. If I was going to Barcelona I placed some DVDs, if I was going to Madrid as well. I extended zeitgeist and others films by Spain.
:P
DVDs carried the following message in Spanish:
(English translation below)
“Enhorabuena, la suerte está de tu parte. Has sido elegido al azar para comunicarte TODA LA VERDAD.
Lo has preguntado millones de veces ¿Por qué este mundo es una mierda? ¿Qué coño pinto yo aquí? Ahora toca descubrirlo, si te atreves.
Recuerda que ya nada volverá a ser igual. ¿Estás preparado para conocer la verdad?
Como, a veces, el destino también se equivoca, si tú no eres un Hombre del Conocimiento, por favor entrega este DVD a otro, seguramente haya alguien en tu entorno que si le interese el conocimiento y la verdad. Y tú sólo eres un vehículo para hacérselo llegar.”
“Congratulations, luck is on your side. You have been chosen at random to communicate ALL THE TRUTH
You've asked a million times why this world is shit? What the hell am I doing here? Now it's time to discover, if you dare.
Remember that nothing will be the same. Are you ready to know the truth?
Because, sometimes, fate is also wrong, if you're not a Man of Knowledge, please deliver this DVD to another, surely there is someone around you that yes is interested in knowledge and truth. And you're just a vehicle to give it to them. "
Now it seems me ridiculous, at the time thought that I did a great service to humanity.
I have found funny to share this experience with all. :P :P :P
I tried that my family watch the movie, but as it is not dubbed into Spanish, they refused to watch a subtitled film. I had better luck with some friends and also had a big impact on them.
With everything I have learned in recent years, this documentary has become less important to me. I think it is okay for awaken people about the men behind the curtains but after you have to keep learning.
In its day it was so shocking to me that he recorded many DVDs with this film and others that seemed to me very revealing. Each DVD in its case. I placed them on windshields of cars at random. If I was going to Barcelona I placed some DVDs, if I was going to Madrid as well. I extended zeitgeist and others films by Spain.
:PDVDs carried the following message in Spanish:
(English translation below)
“Enhorabuena, la suerte está de tu parte. Has sido elegido al azar para comunicarte TODA LA VERDAD.
Lo has preguntado millones de veces ¿Por qué este mundo es una mierda? ¿Qué coño pinto yo aquí? Ahora toca descubrirlo, si te atreves.
Recuerda que ya nada volverá a ser igual. ¿Estás preparado para conocer la verdad?
Como, a veces, el destino también se equivoca, si tú no eres un Hombre del Conocimiento, por favor entrega este DVD a otro, seguramente haya alguien en tu entorno que si le interese el conocimiento y la verdad. Y tú sólo eres un vehículo para hacérselo llegar.”
“Congratulations, luck is on your side. You have been chosen at random to communicate ALL THE TRUTH
You've asked a million times why this world is shit? What the hell am I doing here? Now it's time to discover, if you dare.
Remember that nothing will be the same. Are you ready to know the truth?
Because, sometimes, fate is also wrong, if you're not a Man of Knowledge, please deliver this DVD to another, surely there is someone around you that yes is interested in knowledge and truth. And you're just a vehicle to give it to them. "
Now it seems me ridiculous, at the time thought that I did a great service to humanity.
I have found funny to share this experience with all. :P :P :P
