Descriptions of the "afterlife"/5th Density

SOTT has published another interesting article that belongs in this thread:
www.sott.net

A philosopher investigates near-death experiences

Recently at Psychology Today, psychotherapist Mark Shelvock asked some questions of philosopher Monika Mandoki, who has written a dissertation on near-death experiences (NDEs). Both are based at the University of Western Ontario. Here are two of...
www.sott.net www.sott.net

When browsing on the site of Psychology Today via the above article I found an article about children and NDEs. Their experiences are remarkably different when they are very young. This changes when they become adult:
In 1975, Raymond Moody introduced the world to the term near-death experience (NDE) in his book Life After Life. Since then, much has been uncovered about these experiences from research and personal accounts from around the world. The primary focus of these experiences has been on adults. Indeed, most people are probably unaware that children also can have NDEs. However, what information there is on children's experiences is limited. The 1980s and 1990s saw books written on the subject. However, more recently there has been limited research on children's NDEs, even as research and information about adult NDEs continues.

Melvin Morse was perhaps the first to write about children's NDEs in a 1985 article in the American Journal of Diseases in Children.[1] As with most of the early work on NDEs, the focus was primarily on personal accounts; in this case, of four children. The findings showed that the children had experiences similar to adults in that they reported being out of the body, in a tunnel, and seeing figures dressed in white. In 1990, Morse published his book Closer to the Light, which included more anecdotal accounts of children’s experiences and found, as with adults, that one must be close to death to have the experience and that just being unconscious does not produce an NDE.[2]

Jeff Long, co-founder of the Near Death Experience Research Foundation (NDERF), has been collecting accounts of NDEs since 1989 and has amassed thousands of experiences from around the world, of both adults and children. On a larger scale, Long researched the content of NDEs for children 5 years and under and 6 years and older. His findings further indicated that the NDE core content of the very young was the same as the content of older children and adults. They include out-of-body experiences (OBEs), bright lights, and tunnels.[3] Long’s findings were further supported by Sutherland’s[4] extensive review of 30 years of data that indicated age is not a variable that impacts the content of an NDE. These are interesting findings, given that very young children do not have preexisting knowledge, expectations, or beliefs that might contribute to the content of their experiences. Long believes that this strongly suggests that NDEs occur separately from any religious or cultural beliefs or awareness of what characterizes an NDE. Both children and adults are deeply impacted by these experiences, and it remains a vivid memory for them even years later. According to Bruce Greyson[5], those who have an NDE can accurately remember it for over two decades. Having an NDE also changes those who experience it. There are multiple after-effects, but perhaps the most common one for adults is a loss of the fear of death. Some others include having a new awareness of meaning and purpose in life and becoming more caring and loving.

For children, it seems as though reintegration into life is more difficult, as they often do not have the verbal skills to express or understand what has happened to them. For example, P.M.H. Atwater, another child NDE researcher,[6] talks about the experience of a child who was deeply saddened and distressed when she perceived her return to her body as a rejection and abandonment by those who had shown her love. She questioned why they had left her and wondered if it was because she was “bad.”

Atwater states that it can take 7 to 10 years for an adult to integrate an NDE into their life. Children, however, do not typically integrate their experience for 20 to 40 years. Regardless of age, adults and children are confronted with psychological, physical, social, and behavioral changes. Children are often confused about what has happened to them. They feel different from their peers and often from their family as well. Much of the research on children’s NDEs has come from retrospective studies of adults who had NDEs as a child. In 2011, Morse published the results of his interviews and assessments in Transformed by the Light.[7] These adults exhibited a much lower fear of death compared to others who had not experienced an NDE, regardless of the length of time since the experience. They exhibited an enthusiasm for life as well as a feeling that they have a purpose in life.

If you are a parent or a professional working with a child who has had an NDE, it is important to familiarize yourself with NDE literature. There are many books—and websites such as NDERF.org and IANDS.org—that share information and resources for anyone interested in adult and/or children’s NDEs. When talking with a child or an adult, it is important to be attentive and nonjudgmental. Since the young child may not have the verbal skills to talk about their experience, using drawings, painting, and play can help them express what they cannot put into words. They should be reassured that this is not an unusual occurrence and that others have had similar experiences. Providing accurate information about the experience is important. Both the child and their family need to be supported as they go through this process.

[...]

References

1) Morse, M., Conner, D., and Tyler, D. (1985) Near death experiences in a pediatric population: A preliminary report. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/4003364 doi:10.1001/archpedi. 1985 02140080065034.

2) Morse, M. and Perry, Paul (2023 ) Closer to the Light: Learning from the Near-Death Experiences of Children. Reprinted by Sakkara Books

3) Long, J. and Perry,P. (2010) Evidence of the Afterlife: The Science of Near-Death Experiences. New York: Harper Collins;136-139
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When my children were still very young I had a few dreams about having an NDE as a child. One was of myself stepping over a lifeless body lying at the bottom of the stairs and I had to make a real effort, since the body appeared to be huge.

Another one was where I was lying in a hospital and consequently, leaving my body behind while watching family members near my bed and walking through the darkness into the light.

Interestingly, I didn't know what these dreams meant at the time time. (I am still not sure as they could be symbolic.) I had heard of an out of body experience, but didn't know anything substantial about NDEs until I started reading SOTT and this thread, and came to the realisation that my old dreams represented an NDE.

I heard from Dutch cardiologist Pim van Lommel an interesting tidbit while watching a few interviews with him. He said that people who have had an NDE can feel when somebody in their surroundings is about to depart for 5D!
For more than twenty years cardiologist Pim van Lommel has studied near-death experiences (NDEs) in patients who survived a cardiac arrest. In 2001, he and his fellow researchers published a study on Near Death Experiences in the renowned medical journal The Lancet.
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Maya said:
I will put here one interesting NDE story, maybe someone watched it already.
If you listen to this man's experiences working in hospice many years - he says different type of 'guides' ,
some kind of entites come to adults and to children.
Children talk about seing only gray aliens alike creatures ? :huh:
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I enjoyed watching that video. He comes across as a genuinely decent person. I would suspect he developed psychic abilities after his NDE as a child. The episode he had of the diamonds and seeing his dead boys grown up was very interesting. It would seem that if they had been sympathetic to him, saying we love and miss you dad, that he would have continued on the same self destructive path. They seemed to realise that he needed a firm hand to get him out of that situation.

I am not too sure that the grey alien type creatures is a good thing though.... :cry:
 
aragorn said:
Reading Prescott's book reignited some questions:

  • If I remember correctly, the C's have said that there are no such things as 'spiritual guides' that help you after dying. Still, many NDE witnesses describe these encounters with 'guides' and previously deceased relatives/friends who help them with their transitioning. Often these are seen already moments before dying, during death bed visions or moments of terminal lucidity. Sometimes these figures are beckoning the dying person to 'come over', sometimes they are just there to comfort. I've often wondered, what are these figures actually if not 'real' things? Are they produced somehow by our 'own 5D higher self' to help and comfort us? Prescott's book (as other books) give examples of dying persons seeing dead people who they, or anyone else, didn't know were dead at that moment, which would support the notion that these entities are not produced by the dying person seeing them but that they are separate 'real' dead persons.

  • A bit scary thought, but could some these figures/entities that are seen during death bed visions and transitioning be 4D STS lurkers trying to trick you into staying on the Earth plane instead of going into the light (as was discussed recently)? Could the 'aunt' or 'grandma' you're seeing during your trantitioning be a 'wolf in sheeps clothing'?

  • What should you do if you get stuck in the 'Earth plane' instead of transitioning to the light? Maybe it's enough to know and to deeply want to move on? Or, do you have to say "In Jesus name, I want to go to the light!" :-D

I guess the C's are the best source to ask these things but I'm all ears to what you guys think. :-)
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While reading several recommended books, watching NDE interviews, and now participating in the reading workshop with Prescott's Life and Afterlife, these above topics have been on my mind for some time without being able to put into words. Thank you aragon, for phrasing these questions in such a clear way :-),

What I noticed and wonder is, why there are mostly positive reports. Considering the fact that some deaths in hospitals include strong medication and the passing can be difficult, its rare to find information or research where the passing or NDEs turn out not so positive. So little seems to be said and written about what can go wrong, who or what might lurk and make intentional deviations, 4D STS etc. Quite a scary topic.

E.g in the video above, that @Maya posted, the long time hospice nurse mentions encounters with entities ? that only children had, with what he was said to be alien greys (?). He still speaks about them as positive encounters: "95% of the children were happy, 5% were horrified". There were always similar, strange sounding phrases of these entities towards the children. He did not question if these might be signs of danger or why some children were horrified. Or that this could be a red flag.

As maybe there is little if any training for care takers to have knowledge of such other-dimensional and complex situations, I wondered if thats why people mostly report positive experiences of encounters with beings of light.

I now did a quick search on more complex or negative NDE´s and dying experiences.
I found this quote in the Nat. Lib. of Medicine, Distressing Near Death Experiences: The Basics, where it says, that there is:
A notorious reluctance to report a distressing NDE [which] may lead to long-lasting trauma for individuals as well as limiting the data on occurrence. A literature review covering thirty years of research concludes that as many as one in five NDEs may be predominantly distressing.
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According to this study its 20% that had distressing encounters. And as they are silenced by trauma, there are mostly positive NDE interviews, that reach the public, creating the "normal" imbalanced perception of reality.

It would be really great to ask further questions to the C´s about this topic. The C´s said in Session 26 April 2014, its "A worthy project!" (to write a book on 'How to die/Dying 101')

Maybe it's relevant to ask about STS dangers, the possibility of encountering deviation and "wolfs in sheeps clothing" before, during or after transitioning?

What has to be payed attention to "right and left"? What are the dangers as there are always possible attacks to be expected - on the basis of knowledge and training, like here on the forum, through the C´s, the Work, prayers, crystals, faith of Ceasar...

What is essential to align to during death? And is there a difference when it's a difficult, medicated or traumatic or mass death of eg. a cataclysm, war etc.?

I hope these questions are not limiting?🙄
 
Coming back to what happens when we die, probably incarnated people who have evolved are helped but in the film "Our Home" "Nosso Lar" (taken from the book by Chico Xavier), name of the spiritual colony in which was welcomed the doctor André Luiz, he was only able to enter after 8 years of wandering in the "Threshold", a darkened zone of torment where ignorant and guilty souls arrive at the time of disincarnation...
Taken from the book “Les Messagers” by Chico Xavier that I am currently reading.
Which would explain the response of the Cassiopaeans...
Death, like birth, is different for each of us.
 
Still in the book "Les Messagers de Xavier Chico", Adré Luiz, the disembodied doctor, visits "Le poste de Secours" (The Help Post). At first, under the guidance of his "Orienteur", they meet disembodied people who address supplications concerning their problems on earth, e.g. seeing their family, their financial affairs, etc... The Orienteer always responds with infinite patience and wisdom, but always by bringing them back into line with divine law, reminding them that they must now devote themselves to divine laws and stop worrying about what's happening on Earth, because all those who live here are God's children and responsible for their thoughts, words and actions...
Then the Orienteer takes André Luiz on a tour of immense spaces where disembodied beings sleep with nightmares. These are beings who did not believe in God, who rejected Him and behaved very badly on Earth... It's a distressing sight...
Wonderful prayers are prayed for them, they are given magnetic treatments, and few of them wake up and run away, because they don't understand what they are or where they are... Lost, they will return later to the rescue centers that are always open to receive them...

Perlou: This book talks about the PRAYER said by the incarnate and the benefits it also brings on earth to the incarnate and the disincarnate... These are powerful books that I recommend to you...
I've yet to read Evolution dans deux mondes by the same author.
But I've just ordered "Missionaries of Light", also by the same author.
I can tell you that reading these books turns you upside down and opens your eyes to the worlds beyond...
One sentence in particular caught my attention:
Incarnate, we are inclined to verify the effects of things, we don't reflect on their origins...
 
PERLOU said:
Still in the book "Les Messagers de Xavier Chico", Adré Luiz, the disembodied doctor, visits "Le poste de Secours" (The Help Post). At first, under the guidance of his "Orienteur", they meet disembodied people who address supplications concerning their problems on earth, e.g. seeing their family, their financial affairs, etc... The Orienteer always responds with infinite patience and wisdom, but always by bringing them back into line with divine law, reminding them that they must now devote themselves to divine laws and stop worrying about what's happening on Earth, because all those who live here are God's children and responsible for their thoughts, words and actions...
Then the Orienteer takes André Luiz on a tour of immense spaces where disembodied beings sleep with nightmares. These are beings who did not believe in God, who rejected Him and behaved very badly on Earth... It's a distressing sight...
Wonderful prayers are prayed for them, they are given magnetic treatments, and few of them wake up and run away, because they don't understand what they are or where they are... Lost, they will return later to the rescue centers that are always open to receive them...

Perlou: This book talks about the PRAYER said by the incarnate and the benefits it also brings on earth to the incarnate and the disincarnate... These are powerful books that I recommend to you...
I've yet to read Evolution dans deux mondes by the same author.
But I've just ordered "Missionaries of Light", also by the same author.
I can tell you that reading these books turns you upside down and opens your eyes to the worlds beyond...
One sentence in particular caught my attention:
Incarnate, we are inclined to verify the effects of things, we don't reflect on their origins...
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Just a comment about those books, Perlou.

Our expectations about what may happen next seem to be respected and that more or less happens (seems to be) .

The experiences narrated in those books have a high Christian "flavor" for me.

I don't think that people raised in other religions will really like the stories told in those books.

There is some talk about technology, for example, but it is limited to something more or less than what we know now, with little imagination.

Of course, I can't say that what is told in them is a lie, but perhaps keeping an open mind to more possibilities is useful.

I may be wrong but I have the feeling that you are putting a lot of faith in those books.
 
Gwenllian said:
When browsing on the site of Psychology Today via the above article I found an article about children and NDEs. Their experiences are remarkably different when they are very young. This changes when they become adult:
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Last week I listened to some of NDEs on this channel:


One of those was about a woman who had a NDE when she was a child. I thought it was interesting because, although it is fairly similar to other NDEs, there are some things that are viewed from a child's eye and what her 'guides' on the other side tell her also seems adapted to young girl:


That channel has a lot of interesting experiences. Here are other two that I found really interesting.

This man went to what would be perceived as hell and got the chance to go into the light from there. I thought it was really moving and made me think about how even though he had made some bad choices in his life, what he found out was that we all have the choice and can walk a different path when we make that choice:


This one has some interesting things too. There's something about a message being sent to a paramedic who ultimately saved his life that I found very interesting and then he is taught some life lessons while he is in the afterlife for a short while:


After listening to some of the experiences in that channel, I also came across an old post by Laura and thought it was a beautiful addition to what the people in some of those videos say:

IF a person determines that the ONLY meaning to their life is to be a sort of cell in the great body of the living system in this immense universe, that there is no "great meaning" or value or purpose, that all is illusion, then it behooves that person to learn how to be whatever they are in the best way possible so as to channel creative energy/order into their personal life.

Remember, the only thing we can take with us when we leave this life - no matter whether it is a full stop or the beginning of another life - is the love and caring that others will feel for us as we depart, and that is based on what we have done for others. You never know when one small thing you have done for another, one small word or example, or whatever, might affect that person in such a way that they do or become something more significant and the influence you began with that word or deed spreads its influence across the system and through time. A single, simple act, can carry non-linear influences and affect someone or something a thousand years from now. Such acts can be simple kindnesses, sharing of information, refusal to be dominated by evil, whatever. So it seems to me that it IS worthwhile to act as though what you do in this moment can affect the fate of the Universe. That may be the only meaning our lives can ever have: that we can see and love the creative spirit and give ourselves to it without reservation.
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I am reading "An Extraordinary Journey into Psychotic Reality - Breaking the Institutional Spell"by Jerry Marzinsky and Sherry Swiney translated into French. It is exciting...
This book talks about "skizophrenia" and the voices heard...
Finally, psychiatrists have listened to their patients and their stories demonstrate these voices from other worlds and their powers...
These voices would indeed be those of the positive or negative disembodied spirits that surround us...
He talks about Joan of Arc who heard voices, Castaneda (already read) and "Emanuel Swedenborg "Heaven and Hell" which I started...
It is unimaginable the way skizophrenics have been treated, mistreatment and even torture, since the beginning of time, Hippocrates (375 BC), the father of modern medicine who already thought that all illnesses had a physical cause until Rockefeller "Carnegie Foundation" (1910) which closed all medical schools other than those based on conventional pharmacology...
 
I've continued reading Prescott's Life and Afterlife and I've soon finished it. I said it before, but I'm impressed by the meticulous work Prescott has done, it reads like an encyclopedia or 'court case' for the afterlife and things related. I'm considering buying the paperback version just so it'll be available for my kids after I've left this world.

I've done some highlightings in the text and I'll try to make a summary later once I've finished the book. One thing I'd like to mention is this idea of the 'collective dream'. Prescott makes it sound plausible that after we've separated from the physical body and gone through the 'tunnel', we enter the first stage/world that some have called Summerland. The idea is that Summerland, although it feels as real and 'nuts and bolts' as our 3D existence (with some exceptions), is an imaginary world that is created by a collective dream, 'dreamt up' by the deceased. In many cases this world is described as a paradise with gardens, flowers, and everything you would want, even cigarrettes! I think that maybe this stage in the afterlife is where you 'rest' and gather your strength before you 'move on'. And, I come to think of what our beloved Pierre told us in one of the recent sessions: that his existence at that point felt very much like a dream.

The question Prescott asks, which is a good one, is that if Summerland is a 'collective dream', why are the descriptions of it often so similar? Shouldn't there be more variations? I think that maybe this is because the things that normal people (not the evil ones) enjoy and want are pretty similar – so they 'dream up' similar surroundings, and the reality of Summerland is created as the sum of many individual 'dreams' but you can affect the smaller details with your individual wishes/preferences/inclinations.

Moreover, the idea is that after you've 'rested' and recuperated in Summerland, and once you've realized that it's basically an illusion, you then move on to the 'higher planes'. According to Prescott's research (mostly information through mediums) some 'less aware' people/souls stay in Summerland for a veeeeery long "time" because they have no desire or inclination to move on. I'll have to read the rest of the book to see if Prescott presents more ideas regarding the 'higher planes' etc.

In any case, the idea of Summerland and what it is sounds plausible to some extent and it would be interesting to ask the C's if they think that this idea is on the right track.
 
Not to be pedantic but I think we need a reframe of the title.

It’s not after life … it is our true life or closer to our true life than 3D avatar body earth.

It’s important to know this. Once the transition is over it is said the memory of this life here is like a dream … fades and fades and fades albeit some dreams do stick with us but the after life is life and this is after or before life or between arriving back and starting a new.

I think there is more to this than going back to “source” and reincarnation back to Earth or another reality…I think there is more on the back end
 
Thank you @aragorn for sharing this book which is not translated into French...
I finished the book I mentioned above here it is:

Psychiatry maintains that the voices heard by schizophrenics are trivial auditory hallucinations caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. Clinical investigation of the problem reveals this to be a false claim. Dr. Wilson Van Dusen, clinical psychologist and author of "The Presence of Spirits in Madness", began having coherent conversations with the voices of his schizophrenic patients decades ago. He discovered that they corresponded precisely to what the Christian mystic Emanuel Swedenborg described as evil spirits. After dozens of investigative interviews with his schizophrenic patients, psychiatric evaluator Jerry Marzinsky verified Van Dusen's astonishing conclusion: the voices are real. They are conscious, parasitic entities.

What I've taken away from it is that when the voices are listened to, it's possible to eliminate them by having beautiful thoughts and a few tricks given in the book, including the Psalm "You are my shepherd oh Lord"...
Voices don't like to hear about "DIeu" and the more we move towards the Light, the weaker the voices become.

youtube tu es mon berger oh seigneur - Suchen Videos

www.bing.com www.bing.com

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So I went back to Swedenborg's "Heaven and Hell".
The correspondence that exists between spiritual realities and those of the natural world is the subject of a science that was hidden to avoid profanation. These high truths have always been present among us, preserved and kept in all their purity from contradiction and harm, for the present times, for a great work of reorganization of the Spiritual World had to be accomplished and humanity had to grow, before these things could be revealed.
We are heading towards a profound and lasting renovation of humanity. Which will manifest itself in union in diversity, organization by function, dedication to the collective; it's also a path to freedom, the elimination of all material indigence, a sense of planetary responsibility among nations, and a union of the heart, like that of cells in a body.
"It has been given to me to be with the Angels and to converse with them, as one man with another, and also to see the things that are in Heaven and those that are in Hell..." (Swendenborg, 1745)

What I remember is that at the moment of our death we are in the presence of "Angels" who help us to pass into the afterlife, then we are, "good and bad" in the same calm, serene, beautiful, lovable place, the "Angels" start to tell us about the beautiful things of "GOD", the "good" are normally attracted by these beautiful words but the "bad" are bored by these speeches, hence the first separation. Then the "Angels" study our "exteriority", because the "wicked" may appear "good" but are "wicked" inside, they are hypocrites. Then the "Angels" study our inner selves... The "wicked" are naturally attracted by bad thoughts and behavior, so they take this path of their own accord to join those they resemble, and there they congregate... "God" doesn't throw anyone into "Hell"; it's the souls themselves who choose the path with which they most resonate...
 
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irjO said:
Good idea! I hope they don’t answer for this one too:

“For some, sometimes”
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However, I think it is a fairly accurate answer.

For some, sometimes.

Maybe it's hard to believe, but one of my grandparents lived in a remote area of the country, in that little town, until about twenty years ago they lived like they were in the eighteenth century. No electricity, no running water, no bathroom and..., no education.

As a child, during my parents' visits there, I had (we all had) to relieve ourselves in the stable where the cattle slept.

You had to look for a Mound of Manure and you left yours there.

Coming from a more or less modern city, I had a pretty bad time with that.

The thing is that my grandfather firmly believed that the stars were fireflies that were perched on a blue roof and that at night they gave off light being the starry sky.

As you well know, many, many people are incapable of accepting any other belief than the one that has accompanied them all their lives.

That person with that knowledge died and of course he expected something or nothing, but according to what he thought he knew.

So for some, sometimes.

Reading about near-death experiences indicates the same thing, so it will not be easy to ask about this topic.
 
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