ZEITGEIST

Re: Zeitgeist Addendum

Regulattor said:

And they call this idea "Project VENUS", well I didn't buy it. I perceived whole movie like another distraction. :P

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here's some info from the venus project - which seemed to be one of the main focuses of the film as a solution to our current problems.

_http://www.thevenusproject.com/

Venus Project - The Redesign of a Culture

The Venus Project presents a bold, new direction for humanity that entails nothing less than the total redesign of our culture. There are many people today who are concerned with the serious problems that face our modern society: unemployment, violent crime, replacement of humans by technology, over-population and a decline in the Earth's ecosystems. As you will see, The Venus Project is dedicated to confronting all of these problems by actively engaging in the research, development, and application of workable solutions. Through the use of innovative approaches to social awareness, educational incentives, and the consistent application of the best that science and technology can offer directly to the social system, The Venus Project offers a comprehensive plan for social reclamation in which human beings, technology, and nature will be able to coexist in a long-term, sustainable state of dynamic equilibrium.

The plans for the Venus Project offer society a broader spectrum of choices based on the scientific possibilities inherent in current technology and direct that knowledge toward a new era of peace and sustainability for all cultures. Through the implementation of a resource-based economy, and a multitude of innovative and environmentally friendly technologies directly applied to the social system, The Venus Project proposals will dramatically reduce crime, poverty, hunger, homelessness, and many other pressing problems that are common throughout the world today.

One of the cornerstones of the organization's findings is the fact that many of the dysfunctional behaviors of today's society stem directly from the dehumanizing environment inherent in the existing monetary system. Moreover, the currently utilized random implementation of automation and other technologies have resulted in a fragmented, self-defeating trend occurring throughout the manufacturing and high-tech sectors of today's global economy--namely the technological replacement of human labor by machines. The Venus Project proposes a social system in which automation and technology would be intelligently applied and integrated into an overall social design where the primary function would be to maximize the quality of life rather than profits. This project also introduces a set of workable and acceptable human values that are more appropriate and in balance with our present state of technology.

[bolding mine]

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seems social ills are attributed to circumstance, not to the existence of psychopathy. get rid of the monetary system and we'll all stand in a field of wind turbines hugging and singing while machines take care of the stuff that "holds us back." not to mention "introducing a set of workable and acceptable human values" - acceptable by whom? the percentage of the populous who controls the money you want to get rid of?

reminds me of something agent smith said while grilling morpheus:

smith said:

Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization.

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all in all it seemed to be a well-intentioned facet of the love 'n light brigade, with no practical analysis of our current situation aside from pointing out that, yes, we're all slaves and yes, we need to change, but apparently the psychos will conveniently disappear when everyone chooses this "new path."

anyone else have any experience with/knowledge of Jacque Fresco and project venus?

Re: Zeitgeist Addendum

JonnyRadar said:

...seems social ills are attributed to circumstance, not to the existence of psychopathy. get rid of the monetary system and we'll all stand in a field of wind turbines hugging and singing while machines take care of the stuff that "holds us back."

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Yup. Ignore psychopathy and all sense of truth about the deplorable conditions here on earth is lost...in dreams of utopia...that every human being has a conscience...and love and light will redeem them all.

The avoidance of psychopathy is a clear sign that Zeitgeist is nothing but a distraction. The signal (a bit of truth) to noise (far too much dreaming of a blissful future without pinpointing the main 3D instrument of societal misery) in this venture is apparent, OSIT.

Re: Zeitgeist Addendum

I also just watched it and have to agree with the posts on here. The first half I really enjoyed and thought it was well done. A good insight into the monetary system and the effects of economic terrorism. However, as mentioned by others, the second half is a disappointment and I even had a hard time watching it to the end.
It very much takes a "new age Utopia" turn, offering solutions without clearly having identified the main issue/problem, mainly psychopathy.

At one point I felt it was like an advertising clip for the Venus Project, portraying the "leader" as the "all knowing" wise man. It became even a bit comical in my eye, when he also uses him as an "expert" on religion and the bible. Too much emphasis on technology as the "savior" and the monetary system as the cause/root for the problems in the world. The fact that the film doesn't go one bit into psychopathy and questioning "human nature" to begin with is a big let down.
The biggest issue I have is this new age turn and slogan he uses as the "reason" for "uniting", the assumption that "We are all One and we just need to recognize this" in typical "romantic" wishful thinking manner.

Peter Joseph (the director and voice-over) basically bases the root of the problems the world is facing solely on the monetary system and he repeats that even over and over again at the end. Very short sighted, hence his solutions are very short sighted as well and actually misleading based on the following false premises and assumption that caught me eye:

1. All humans are the same, we're all "one".
2. Progress happens no matter what, without laying out what "progress" means to begin with, as if technological progress and evolution of consciousness are the same.
3. Leaving out huge parts that explain far more the state of the world than just basing it on the monetary system and "human nature", without truly questioning "human nature" to begin with.....which goes back to the topic of psychopathy and ultimately Organic Portals. Yes we're all one from a HIGHER perspective and separation is an "Illusion", but applying this higher truth into our 3rd density experience is like saying gravity is an Illusion. Great, so jump off a ten story building and see how this "illusion" can back fire.

It's disappointing because Peter Joseph is a gifted film maker and has a good style of presentation. The first half is good, so people can become more aware of how they're being screwed by the monetary system so to speak, however, the ending is misleading into some sort of utopia where people just can live peaceful together if there is right application of technology and abolishing of the monetary system.
It would have been great if he would have researched more into psychopathy/ponerology, presenting these issues with his film making talents.
However, in this case Zeitgeist Addendum becomes more like a distraction and gives people false hopes.

I remember him saying during the film:
"We must be open to new information at all times, even if it threatens our current belief systems and hence identities."

Not sure if he applied this advice to himself.
Seemed like he was going for the big crowds and playing it "safe".

Re: Zeitgeist Addendum

I watched it last night with my husband. I came to pretty much the same conclusions mentioned here.

1. The first part was pretty good in describing the monetary system.

2. The "Utopian Dream" presented by the Venus Project did not take into account psychopathy and characteropathy, including genetic and biological causes. Without this consideration, it is merely a matter of time before ponerization comes again.

They don't seem to understand that to try to create a system without consideration of both creative and entropic forces, they would actually create a new "Darth Vader". Repression and denial of entropic forces merely sends them out of sight, not out of reality.

3. They specifically assume and describe linear time, no acknowledgement of cyclical time.

Re: Zeitgeist Addendum

FireShadow said:

They don't seem to understand that to try to create a system without consideration of both creative and entropic forces, they would actually create a new "Darth Vader". Repression and denial of entropic forces merely sends them out of sight, not out of reality.

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It seems the 'all is one' ideology is just another form of fascism that denies the differences and separateness of 'the other'. Of course it's done under the banner of good, just as any fascist systems needs to do. The polarity of 'the other' being denied its separate existence seems not to matter. In the unveiling of a fascist system, the initial tendency, (at least for me) seems to look primarily at how truth is denied. But importantly, fascism also equally denies things which are false. It's both upside-down and inside-out. The underbelly of the 'all is one' mask seems to inflate the denial of the false.

A couple of weeks ago there was a thread where the author was ironically arguing against and for fascism at the same time:

Goz Show:

Laura said:

goz said:

If you fail to grasp my point and act on it, I will be forced to conclude that you’re just another “controlled opposition” and, regrettably, I will leave.

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Sounds like your cup is pretty full and if others don't see things your way, don't "join tightly" with you, they aren't worthy. THAT is fascist.

Fascism: From the Latin fasces, a group of tightly bundled rods with an axe head protruding from one end, a Roman symbol of power and unity. ...
(...)

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In another thread Approaching Infinity included a Williams James excerpt on monism in relation to 'all is one' (go to the link to read to full excerpt):

For monism, on the contrary, everything, whether we realize it or not,
drags the whole universe along with itself and drops nothing. The log
starts and arrives with all its carriers supporting it. If a thing
were once disconnected, it could never be connected again, according
to monism. The pragmatic difference between the two systems is thus a
definite one. It is just thus, that if _a_ is once out of sight of _b_
or out of touch with it, or, more briefly, 'out' of it at all, then,
according to monism, it must always remain so, they can never get
together; whereas pluralism admits that on another occasion they may
work together, or in some way be connected again. Monism allows for
no such things as 'other occasions' in reality--in _real_ or absolute
reality, that is.

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Looks like the awfully familiar 'you're with us or against us' mentality of the fascists in charge.

In terms of the internal perspective, monism seems an accurate description of our lower centers. The separate bundled rods seem analogous to our many little i's which lack the internal value system to distinguish between 'other occasions' like other little i's.

Re: Zeitgeist Addendum

i've also watched it a few days ago.
like all such videos it only illuminates part of the picture.
weather the omission of critical information like psychopathy is intentional or based on incomplete information on the part of the filmmakers is hard to fathom. but with a comparatively 'high profile' movie like zeitgeist and this companion i tend to think it is intentional.
it would be interesting to know the funding structure of zeitgeist, since an elaborate presentation like this needs some decent amount of money to be realized.

i would still recommend the movie as a primer for the uninitiated, after all it was a david icke book that got me started on my path.

Re: Zeitgeist Addendum

I am a bit suprised at the responses here towards the film!

Bernhard, you speak of Organic Portals and 3rd density experience so perhaps you know something I don't?

Peter Joseph is simply demonstrating the true power of the internet and why it is viewed as a terrorist enemy weapons system by some.

Iconoclast, most of the video in the original and the addendum was culled from the internet and assembled on a home computer with video editing software and a voice over added. Elaborate presentation? The film cost nothing but time and effort to produce. In fact your suspicion of its "funding" as the film so cleverly describes could be a symptom of the institutions that have guided your life since birth!

As far as psychopathy goes, and I know it is a huge theme on this board, what component of that would you all recommend adding to the film to make it more complete?

That people born into wealth and power aspire to keep things that way employing psychopaths to do their dirty work?

Are these people psychopaths themselves and if so who decides?

Ever thought that people like us who sit around pecking on keyboards moaning about minor nuances of a film like this while billions live in poverty are the real psychopaths?

Re: Zeitgeist Addendum

pablonite said:

I am a bit suprised at the responses here towards the film!

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You seem rather emotionally invested in this film, is there a reason?

p said:

Bernhard, you speak of Organic Portals and 3rd density experience so perhaps you know something I don't?

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That's a rather odd question.  Are you saying that you are unfamiliar with these terms?  If so, please use the search function at the top of the page to get up to speed.

p said:

Peter Joseph is simply demonstrating the true power of the internet and why it is viewed as a terrorist enemy weapons system by some.

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How do you come to that conclusion - it's a bit of a stretch, wouldn't you say?

p said:

Iconoclast, most of the video in the original and the addendum was culled from the internet and assembled on a home computer with video editing software and a voice over added. Elaborate presentation? The film cost nothing but time and effort to produce. In fact your suspicion of its "funding" as the film so cleverly describes could be a symptom of the institutions that have guided your life since birth!

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Apologies, but this point is rather vague as well.  Could you please clarify?

p said:

As far as psychopathy goes, and I know it is a huge theme on this board, what component of that would you all recommend adding to the film to make it more complete?

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Have you read Political Ponerology by Andrew Lobaczewski?  If not, it might be worth your while since it illustrates quite clearly what might be 'added' to give an accurate representation of what we, as a species are actually dealing with.

p said:

That people born into wealth and power aspire to keep things that way employing psychopaths to do their dirty work?

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It appears that you need to get up to speed on psychopathy as well. 

p said:

Are these people psychopaths themselves and if so who decides?

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No one 'decides' - again, you seem to be lacking a core foundation of understanding of psychopathy.  That is easily correctable with some effort on your part.

p said:

Ever thought that people like us who sit around pecking on keyboards moaning about minor nuances of a film like this while billions live in poverty are the real psychopaths?

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You obviously are misunderstanding the definition of a psychopath.  This lack of understanding has led you to make some serious errors in logic and it also explains why you cannot see the inherent flaws in this film (not saying it is worthless by any means - but the flaws are considerable, considering the current state of the world).  It might serve you well to get up to speed on the topic because it is THE KEY to what is happening on this planet right now.

Re: Zeitgeist Addendum

Ever thought that people like us who sit around pecking on keyboards moaning about minor nuances of a film

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Hi Pablonite,

And welcome to the SOTT forum.

I did enjoy Zeitgeist. I found it to be a great documentary with heaps of relevant data.

This being said "psychopathy" is a key feature that fits nicely in the Zeitgeist equation.

We have a whole section dedicated to psychopathy, you can have a look at the sticky threads to get a glimpse of what we are talking about.

Re: Zeitgeist Addendum

Hi pablonite!

I can only stress what anart and others have said about psychopathy.

I was introduced to this concept about 6 months ago. Of course I've heard the term before, but mostly in the "axt wielding serial killer" variety - which is a bit of a distractor. If you research this phenomenon you will realize, that psychopathy has a much wider aspect than the one just mentioned. And I have come to realize as well, that this is a crucial component to understand what is going on in our world today. Suddenly things who just didn't make sense for decades click into place.

The most significant realization for me was that this subsegment of humanity has a different inner working than most of us do. The are not just "bad", they are different. They don't understand emotions, and they don't even less understand emotions in others.

So by all means, read Lobaczewski's book and I am sure, this will add a lot of understanding of your part. Good luck!

Re: Zeitgeist Addendum

So I guess now we`ve all seen the movie. Did any of you join the movement? If they get more followers, i think the change Peter Joseph could in fact become a better version of our current reality.

Re: Zeitgeist Addendum

Disinfo said:

So I guess now we`ve all seen the movie. Did any of you join the movement? If they get more followers, i think the change Peter Joseph could in fact become a better version of our current reality.

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Hmm, did you get a chance to read the responses in this thread?  Did you notice what forum category it is listed under?  Why would you think anyone here would have 'joined the movement'?  Oh, or are you making a funny?

Re: Zeitgeist Addendum

Sorry, i`m new on the forum. I wasnt making a funny.I have to say that this "movement" has some real good ideas and goals, which I support. I didn`t notice the category this morning. Please explain to me, why did you put this threat it in the "Disinformation" category ??

Re: Zeitgeist Addendum

Disinfo said:

Sorry, i`m new on the forum. I wasnt making a funny.I have to say that this "movement" has some real good ideas and goals, which I support. I didn`t notice the category this morning. Please explain to me, why did you put this threat it in the "Disinformation" category ??

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Have you read the entire thread? You might get your answer. You might also want to read this one.

The fact is that they don't mention psychopathy, which is essential to understand our reality and the state of the world. I haven't seen this addendum but I saw the 1st movie. I think they focused too much on Love and Light. It has a new age gloss. I don't remember seeing Israel/Zionism's role mentioned either. All these points raise some red flags and some doubts about the real purpose of the people who did this movie.

Re: ZEITGEIST, can someone take a look and report?

PopHistorian said:

I think most drowsy Americans would find quite a gap in the film that doesn't explain how their system of government, the two-party system, the Congress, and all the supposed checks and balances could be bypassed by a power elite. It might be possible for a viewer to assume that the filmmaker thinks that all these people are impossibly "in on the conspiracy," which is unbelievable for good reason. A little more history about the founding of the USA might've helped, especially because it is USA-centric. Ties to politics aren't made strongly, IMO. China isn't mentioned at all, for instance, nor Russia, even though the same tactics to foment revolutions and wars have been used on those societies.

I'm being very critical, obviously. Going overboard would've sunk the film. No Israel with regard to 9/11 and no linking of intelligence services are probably the greatest omissions, IMO. Still, as a stepping stone, it's a good summary of some of what's going on.

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I don`t agree with you. There is no need to add any of the information in THIS movie, because it persists in the first Zeitgeist edition, and its concidered that we all know all this allready.