Session 20 June 2009
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
Buddy
The Living Force
Hi GotoGo,
How about trying an experiment before using the prayer again. There are two approaches to try.
In the first approach, look at each word. Instead of seeing it as a thing (even if it is not a noun), try seeing it as a verb. Try to understand what the word means in terms of process, motions, relationships. The Universe is full of movement and patterns and interacting energies, so try and explain to yourself what the word means in terms that actually relate to what the Universe is doing. If you can do this, then by the time you get to the end of the prayer, you should have a unified energy pattern whose end blends back in with the beginning (notice the similarities between the first and last lines).
In the second approach:
First, go through the first line and read every word. Take a pencil and paper and write down whatever comes to mind - what ever you think the sentence means. Do this for every line.
When you finish, start over and do the same thing for each word. For each word, just think about it. Write down everything that comes to mind about what you think that word means.
Now, imagine that you have a visitor come to see you. Maybe someone who is very smart, but doesn't know anything about Earth and how humans think and speak. This visitor only ever has two questions - he/she never says anything else. The two questions are 1) What does that mean? and 2) Why?
Every time you answer a question, your visitor asks you another. Now your job is to explain to this person what each word means all the way down to the point where you can either point to what you are referring to or you have to admit you don't know (in which case he/she will ask you why you don't know).
You must be polite to this visitor and not lose your cool, because you don't want to have to explain why you can't control your temper. If you feel stress and get emotional during this conversation, you can take a break, but you must come back and finish the conversation. You are learning something very important about mechanical thinking.
Soon, you will probably realize that you were acting like the words have meanings in themselves, when the fact is that YOU have meanings, for the words you understand, in your being - neuron patterns that decode for understanding when necessary. Whether or not the word has an objective meaning is not the point right now, because before you can use the prayer for its benefits, you must discover your hidden subjectivity.
After you have explained to your visitor, the meanings of any word that you are having a problem with...all the way down to the ground (if you can), you are free to decide if you have been believing a fraud or lie about the word. [Note: If you cannot explain your word to a child whose mind soaks up and integrates data like a sponge, so that he can understand it, then you are not through with the breakdown.]
If necessary, research the forum or recommended reading materials to replace your previous meanings with meanings that are more objective. Or simply ask other members for help.
Now go back to the prayer and read the first line. Look at it with an artist's eyes. You do not want to see anything or think anything about the line - you only want to wait for impressions to come to you no matter how long it takes. Let the Universe speak to you and tell you what you need to hear. It is not about telling the Universe what your words mean, it's about 'asking' with an open heart for whatever you need for your soul, without expecting anything in particular.
If you approach this like an innocent trusting child, the Universe will teach you....because it needs your help. And because you ASKED.
Please consider not dismissing these ideas so easily. If used with sincerity, the very least you can expect is gaining some useful practice in DOing something to help you in your Work.
--fwiw
How about trying an experiment before using the prayer again. There are two approaches to try.
In the first approach, look at each word. Instead of seeing it as a thing (even if it is not a noun), try seeing it as a verb. Try to understand what the word means in terms of process, motions, relationships. The Universe is full of movement and patterns and interacting energies, so try and explain to yourself what the word means in terms that actually relate to what the Universe is doing. If you can do this, then by the time you get to the end of the prayer, you should have a unified energy pattern whose end blends back in with the beginning (notice the similarities between the first and last lines).
In the second approach:
First, go through the first line and read every word. Take a pencil and paper and write down whatever comes to mind - what ever you think the sentence means. Do this for every line.
When you finish, start over and do the same thing for each word. For each word, just think about it. Write down everything that comes to mind about what you think that word means.
Now, imagine that you have a visitor come to see you. Maybe someone who is very smart, but doesn't know anything about Earth and how humans think and speak. This visitor only ever has two questions - he/she never says anything else. The two questions are 1) What does that mean? and 2) Why?
Every time you answer a question, your visitor asks you another. Now your job is to explain to this person what each word means all the way down to the point where you can either point to what you are referring to or you have to admit you don't know (in which case he/she will ask you why you don't know).
You must be polite to this visitor and not lose your cool, because you don't want to have to explain why you can't control your temper. If you feel stress and get emotional during this conversation, you can take a break, but you must come back and finish the conversation. You are learning something very important about mechanical thinking.
Soon, you will probably realize that you were acting like the words have meanings in themselves, when the fact is that YOU have meanings, for the words you understand, in your being - neuron patterns that decode for understanding when necessary. Whether or not the word has an objective meaning is not the point right now, because before you can use the prayer for its benefits, you must discover your hidden subjectivity.
After you have explained to your visitor, the meanings of any word that you are having a problem with...all the way down to the ground (if you can), you are free to decide if you have been believing a fraud or lie about the word. [Note: If you cannot explain your word to a child whose mind soaks up and integrates data like a sponge, so that he can understand it, then you are not through with the breakdown.]
If necessary, research the forum or recommended reading materials to replace your previous meanings with meanings that are more objective. Or simply ask other members for help.
Now go back to the prayer and read the first line. Look at it with an artist's eyes. You do not want to see anything or think anything about the line - you only want to wait for impressions to come to you no matter how long it takes. Let the Universe speak to you and tell you what you need to hear. It is not about telling the Universe what your words mean, it's about 'asking' with an open heart for whatever you need for your soul, without expecting anything in particular.
If you approach this like an innocent trusting child, the Universe will teach you....because it needs your help. And because you ASKED.
Please consider not dismissing these ideas so easily. If used with sincerity, the very least you can expect is gaining some useful practice in DOing something to help you in your Work.
--fwiw
Steve M.
Jedi Master
I find this rather odd:
Buddy Wrote:
Maybe I'm seeing the glass half full, instead of half empty. It's just that I thought I needed the Universes help and not the opposite. Was that a typo or am I missing something? There are a lot of obstacles, buffers etc.. in my line of thinking, and that's a given. For example I need the Universe to teach me, and I hope to be able to share and teach others - but somehow without crossing their (other peoples) freewill. But I believe, and again I could be wrong, but believe the Universe is as it should be currently. Are we trying to fix the world or are we creating the potential to possibly change the world (moving to-ward and STO potential)?
This is really a difficult area for me. On one hand it could be forced, something so bad could shake the world mind-set and 'force change,' which I think is on the alien agenda -to lock in STS. On another, perhaps things get so bad that some have to act - even in a forceful manner, to create change.
Maybe I'm misconstruing what you said buddy. I just thought your closing sentence would read "..because you need its help." Then there is a third idea, an inner burning need to be of help. I just don't follow the Universe needing my help. Apologies for rattling on and I do imagine it needing help, but don't feel that I can dictate how to of help.
Excuse me for lacking the ability to interpret your meaning and I hope you have the time to expand on it. This whole thread has given me a major melt-down that I've never experienced before. Like moving up by being knocked back down - if only that made sense: To imply gaining some awareness only to have it fade, and knowing that that awareness needs to be maintained.., so you have to start over again and (personally) MUST find a way to get it back and retain/maintain it.
Sincere thanks Laura and the group (at the board and otherwise) for the insights you've shared!
Buddy Wrote:
Maybe I'm seeing the glass half full, instead of half empty. It's just that I thought I needed the Universes help and not the opposite. Was that a typo or am I missing something? There are a lot of obstacles, buffers etc.. in my line of thinking, and that's a given. For example I need the Universe to teach me, and I hope to be able to share and teach others - but somehow without crossing their (other peoples) freewill. But I believe, and again I could be wrong, but believe the Universe is as it should be currently. Are we trying to fix the world or are we creating the potential to possibly change the world (moving to-ward and STO potential)?
This is really a difficult area for me. On one hand it could be forced, something so bad could shake the world mind-set and 'force change,' which I think is on the alien agenda -to lock in STS. On another, perhaps things get so bad that some have to act - even in a forceful manner, to create change.
Maybe I'm misconstruing what you said buddy. I just thought your closing sentence would read "..because you need its help." Then there is a third idea, an inner burning need to be of help. I just don't follow the Universe needing my help. Apologies for rattling on and I do imagine it needing help, but don't feel that I can dictate how to of help.
Excuse me for lacking the ability to interpret your meaning and I hope you have the time to expand on it. This whole thread has given me a major melt-down that I've never experienced before. Like moving up by being knocked back down - if only that made sense: To imply gaining some awareness only to have it fade, and knowing that that awareness needs to be maintained.., so you have to start over again and (personally) MUST find a way to get it back and retain/maintain it.
Sincere thanks Laura and the group (at the board and otherwise) for the insights you've shared!
fwiw:
(btw Laura, your poem/prayer is very beautiful. My little brother even got the shivers when he read it.)
Maybe both ''need'' each other?Balberon said:
I guess we will just do what we'll do. And perhaps the ''outcome'' of our doing could be beneficial to those around us, the Universe and ourselves (or just be natural). Who knows..Balberon said:
(btw Laura, your poem/prayer is very beautiful. My little brother even got the shivers when he read it.)
Tigersoap
The Living Force
Balberon said:
That's how I understand it as well.
You cannot help the Universe without helping yourself first. Thinking of it, I think help is not needed, it's being that's needed but I could be wrong about how I see this.
I don't think the Universe "needs" anything anyway.
To see everything like an innocent trusting child, to me, would require to have shed your programs and start afresh, with new eyes indeed.
Just thinking it won't cut it osit.
Oxajil said:
This was also my first impression, that it is interdependent.
I agree with Tigersoap: "that the universe is capable fixing itself", on the other hand considering STO/STS the universe -needs- beings who are asking for help (balance), in the sense that it is the choice of these beings to be of help (free will).
I hope this statement is not too confusing, but I must admit that right now the more I think about, the more confused I get.
Balberon said:
maybe this quote is of help, these are the last sentences of the wave series:
Laura said:
shellycheval
The Living Force
Good Morning! My apologies--I have screwed up the quote box in the previous post and put it around Buddy's words and my own reply. It should read:
Buddy wrote:
Well put Buddy! This is such an important concept ("you were acting like the words have meanings in themselves, when the fact is that YOU have meanings, for the words") to keep in mind when communicating. Unfortunately many people cannot (?willnot?) understand that because the human mind can comprehend abstract/symbolic thought, we use letters as symbols for sound and words as symbols for things and ideas, therefor the only meaning words actually have is whatever meaning the culture in which the words originate has assigned them.
In an earlier C's Session:
Quote
A: Words only have power if the receiver believes they do.
Q: (L) But, in many cases, that belief exists.
A: The power to control belief lies exclusively within the receiver.
Understanding that the meanings of words are abstract, arbitrary, and ambiguous helps us "discover your [our] hidden subjectivity." When we have emotional reactions to words, these are red flags that we have attached some "power" to them based on our understanding of the words subject to our cultural teachings. By learning that the power in these words comes from our own beliefs in the words, then we can begin to see where our subjectivity lies and work to come to a more objective understanding of the intent of the words without so much cultural gloss.
How much distress we have when hearing certain words reveals how reactive we are, how much control outside cultural teachings (programming) have over our hearts and minds, and how much control our emotions have over our thoughts and actions. Rather than knowing our emotions as important messengers relaying information from our environment to our self of "true existence," we are taught to empower words and our emotions with meaning learned from our Pathocratic dominated cultures and wander through life re-acting to the will of others instead of making our own connections to the "Divine cosmic mind" for empowerment.
So, IMHO reciting Laura's prayer is a wonderful way to ferret out where we have subjective programming to recognize, and to open our hearts and minds more objectively to the "Holy Awareness in All Creation."
shellycheval
Sorry for the mess and taking up the space--I do not know how to "unpost" the previous mistake--if the moderators would remove it I will edit more carefully. Thanks sc
Buddy wrote:
Well put Buddy! This is such an important concept ("you were acting like the words have meanings in themselves, when the fact is that YOU have meanings, for the words") to keep in mind when communicating. Unfortunately many people cannot (?willnot?) understand that because the human mind can comprehend abstract/symbolic thought, we use letters as symbols for sound and words as symbols for things and ideas, therefor the only meaning words actually have is whatever meaning the culture in which the words originate has assigned them.
In an earlier C's Session:
Quote
A: Words only have power if the receiver believes they do.
Q: (L) But, in many cases, that belief exists.
A: The power to control belief lies exclusively within the receiver.
Understanding that the meanings of words are abstract, arbitrary, and ambiguous helps us "discover your [our] hidden subjectivity." When we have emotional reactions to words, these are red flags that we have attached some "power" to them based on our understanding of the words subject to our cultural teachings. By learning that the power in these words comes from our own beliefs in the words, then we can begin to see where our subjectivity lies and work to come to a more objective understanding of the intent of the words without so much cultural gloss.
How much distress we have when hearing certain words reveals how reactive we are, how much control outside cultural teachings (programming) have over our hearts and minds, and how much control our emotions have over our thoughts and actions. Rather than knowing our emotions as important messengers relaying information from our environment to our self of "true existence," we are taught to empower words and our emotions with meaning learned from our Pathocratic dominated cultures and wander through life re-acting to the will of others instead of making our own connections to the "Divine cosmic mind" for empowerment.
So, IMHO reciting Laura's prayer is a wonderful way to ferret out where we have subjective programming to recognize, and to open our hearts and minds more objectively to the "Holy Awareness in All Creation."
shellycheval
Sorry for the mess and taking up the space--I do not know how to "unpost" the previous mistake--if the moderators would remove it I will edit more carefully. Thanks sc
lara4unow
Jedi
anart said:
You are right anart. I was just very tired. It has been a stressful week for us all. I don't lose patience often. This is a wake up call. The large and diverse response to this thread is encouraging. I don't feel so all alone without anyone to talk to about the current events. I will address my comments to the thread even if they are 8 or more pages past. I have been re reading many of the posts more than once.
L
Buddy
The Living Force
Balberon said:
Apologies for any confusion. Have you read the Wave and Adventures with Cassiopaeia and the many references to Ark's journal entries?
If not, I apologise for the lack of context. Of course we need the Universe's help. We all exist in a mutually inclusive relationship. The Universe needs debuggers and anyone who can assist in the awakening of other conscious individuals so that we can participate in creation together as the Spirit moves each one of us within the larger currents.
That's my understanding anyway. If that's still unclear, I'll try to explain some more.
Steve M.
Jedi Master
I think I understand where buddy was coming from, but only in the theoretical.
Maybe a person who has crossed a certain threshold, can have the Universe dictate to them the best way of being helpful based on their own aim/nature?
Trying to avoid word salad as best I can, and dictating doesn't always mean being forced, it can be free will based, I think, like being a secretary of ones freewill to have a job, and employ ones skills(?). I think Laura (you) are doing that. But not by determining (dictating) the Universe's needs but through research and finding out (listening to its dictation). Asking to find out what is being asked and giving it your all through sacrifice (time, health..).
It's strange to consider, at this point, from a theoretical view (intellectualizing). My gut thinks your right "...because it needs your help." I just need to learn to listen, stay focused..
(Long interruption)
I've got 40 years of looking through the telescope a certain way and thus far it has proven to be the wrong end. Some additional thoughts, FWIW.
Edit: Quote Buddy: "That's my understanding anyway. If that's still unclear, I'll try to explain some more."
No you said it a few heavens of a lot better, and it is quite clear. Yes I've read those books.
Maybe a person who has crossed a certain threshold, can have the Universe dictate to them the best way of being helpful based on their own aim/nature?
Trying to avoid word salad as best I can, and dictating doesn't always mean being forced, it can be free will based, I think, like being a secretary of ones freewill to have a job, and employ ones skills(?). I think Laura (you) are doing that. But not by determining (dictating) the Universe's needs but through research and finding out (listening to its dictation). Asking to find out what is being asked and giving it your all through sacrifice (time, health..).
It's strange to consider, at this point, from a theoretical view (intellectualizing). My gut thinks your right "...because it needs your help." I just need to learn to listen, stay focused..
(Long interruption)
I've got 40 years of looking through the telescope a certain way and thus far it has proven to be the wrong end. Some additional thoughts, FWIW.
Edit: Quote Buddy: "That's my understanding anyway. If that's still unclear, I'll try to explain some more."
No you said it a few heavens of a lot better, and it is quite clear. Yes I've read those books.
StrangeCaptain
Jedi Council Member
If I understood correctly, the "dissection" of Laura's prayer started due to some people's issues with the word "holy." Since the prayer and the practice that goes with it have been suggested as a treatment for emotional blockages, could it not very well be that the reaction against this word in this clearly non-religious context is exactly the kind of emotional blockage this practice treats?
In other words, all the conflicts one feels while holding this "seed" during the meditation should be breathed through. You keep holding on to the seed and breathing until the sensations of discomfort or revolt or whatever subside. If there is a large emotional blockage associated to a word, then thinking about it before the blockage is softened may simply produce more emotional thinking. Of course, the mind needs to be exercised about how a word can be ponerized, but if one is studyinging more or less continuously the psychological works this group has discovered such as "Political Ponerology" and the other more personal psychological books, then one ought to be getting some of this mental exercise.
Sometimes picking something apart bit by bit is important, and sometimes taking a step back is important, too. And sometimes... If you have reason to believe you have found a good influence in your life, sometimes you just have to jump off the edge of your life and give something new a try. I know we all have ample reason to distrust, so it makes experimentation all the trickier. But given there is a network here to share with, it is perhaps a little less perilous than navigating alone.
In other words, all the conflicts one feels while holding this "seed" during the meditation should be breathed through. You keep holding on to the seed and breathing until the sensations of discomfort or revolt or whatever subside. If there is a large emotional blockage associated to a word, then thinking about it before the blockage is softened may simply produce more emotional thinking. Of course, the mind needs to be exercised about how a word can be ponerized, but if one is studyinging more or less continuously the psychological works this group has discovered such as "Political Ponerology" and the other more personal psychological books, then one ought to be getting some of this mental exercise.
Sometimes picking something apart bit by bit is important, and sometimes taking a step back is important, too. And sometimes... If you have reason to believe you have found a good influence in your life, sometimes you just have to jump off the edge of your life and give something new a try. I know we all have ample reason to distrust, so it makes experimentation all the trickier. But given there is a network here to share with, it is perhaps a little less perilous than navigating alone.
Patience said:
So true. I had to step off the edge of reality and trust the Cs at one point and I am sure glad I did. I literally entered a different reality - one where Ark exists and we work together to help others and the Universe.
In this case, no one is expected to do what I had to do... it is merely a matter of trying something out for awhile and evaluating the results for yourself.
There is clearly nothing to lose and everything to gain.
As promised, we have put up the first part of a three part series teaching the breathing techniques recommended by the Cs:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/Eiriu-Eolas/
As you can see below, we are working on the video portion and there will be a final audio segment.
I have started a new thread on the topic of the breathing program where all of you can post your feedback and experiences:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=12837.0
http://www.cassiopaea.org/Eiriu-Eolas/
As you can see below, we are working on the video portion and there will be a final audio segment.
I have started a new thread on the topic of the breathing program where all of you can post your feedback and experiences:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=12837.0
mada85
The Cosmic Force
Yossarian said:
In thinking about taking back the meanings of words that have twisted by pathological interventions, I found, in Chambers Etymological Dictionary, this most interesting paragraph about the word ‘holy’:
So it seems that ‘holy’ has been twisted to mean ‘holy by association with God’, but who or what is the God in question – Yahweh? Whereas the original meaning of the word was more inclusive and motherly, assuming that the Chambers version is close to the truth.
‘Transgress’ has a very interesting meaning in relation to our purpose here:
Penguin English Dictionary said:
As does ‘violate’:
Penguin English Dictionary said:
Taken all together, this constellation of meanings around ‘holy’ says to me that the awareness described, which is Divine Cosmic Mind, simply cannot be violated or transgressed because it is ALL. And even those who are the blackest of the black are still a part of Divine Cosmic Mind.
Gotogo said:
The predators’ mind is part of Divine Cosmic Mind, it just shuts off that recognition about itself. I have found, in working with this prayer, that the predator’s mind is seen much more clearly. Don Juan describes the attributes of the predators mind as: ‘Baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now.’ And these words have very clear and interesting meanings (all taken from the Penguin English Dictionary):
Recently, when lying in bed either waiting for sleep or awakening from sleep, I have been trying to focus on saying the prayer mentally without falling asleep, and this led me to see that what I call ‘I’ is almost all predator’s mind, except for a small flame of awareness which is able to observe that mind. And, when the predator’s mind is seen, it does just what Gurdjieff describes when he says that when a man tries to awaken, all the forces that keep him asleep rise up with renewed force.
Balberon said:
I think this can be looked at from another angle. If all mind and being is Divine Cosmic Mind, then by helping ourselves (human mind and human being), we are helping the universe (Divine Cosmic Mind). And since we are Divine Cosmic Mind, albeit sleeping, then when we help ourselves (and each other) it is really the universe (Divine Cosmic Mind) helping us. This is rather convoluted, but I hope you understand what I’m getting at.