When you feel like you're being ignored

Possibility of Being

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
I don't want to channel for personal reasons, I don't have any issues that I haven't dealt with in the normal manner. I want to channel because it has been made clear to me that I have an inclination towards being skilled at that type of activity. I don't like wasting any skill that I may possess.

Sorry, English is not my mother tongue, but that's how I understand what "inclination towards being skilled at" something means: it reads to me like you'd showed interest and made at least some preliminary effort toward becoming skilled at it. That's what that person seemed to say. It doesn't mean you have that skill or even that you can become skilled in it. But maybe something got lost in translation. Anyway, following your way of reasoning: what if you were told by the same, or another person that you show quite a potential of becoming skilled as a dictator, for example? Would you as gladly pursue that objective so that you don't waste that skill?

In other words, your arguments not always make sense to me.

I didn't ask for advice from anyone except one person, I had my reasons for reaching out to that particular person.

And what if that one person had his own reason for not answering you? A reason that might, or might not, have anything to do with you personally.

There is a great saying that I like to quote, "First, remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye."

It doesn't seem that you are applying that saying to yourself.

I didn't ask anyone's advice about using the psychomanteum. I asked for comments about how people deal with the frustration of feeling like you are being ignored.

If you had not focused so much on defending yourself, you might have noticed that that's what numerous members tried to share with you: that they would question their feelings and motivations first of all. But you chose to ignore (reject, attack) those replies and it seems that there is only one kind of reply that you'd appreciate: unconditional validation of your feeling and the expectation that follows. It doesn't look like a fair game to me.
 

Alejo

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
I didn't ask anyone's advice about using the psychomanteum. I asked for comments about how people deal with the frustration of feeling like you are being ignored.
And the responses were... "move on, maybe they were busy, don't take it personal".

Thanks for all the comments. I understand you are all doing what you feel is the best thing to do.
So you know that people spending time typing up responses is what they feel is the best thing to do... that is you "understand" that you're receiving responses who sincerely feel they have something to add to your conundrum and yet your response to that is ignore all the questions and simply say:

I think that you all need to analyze your motivation in posting to this thread. Is it really to help me or to display your own knowledge? To prove that your understanding is superior to mine?

I didn't request your advice about anything, so why do you feel the need to force it upon me?

As far as I can tell, that is what STS is all about.
In short "I didn't as for your opinion, so why are you speaking?". Really?!

I have no delusions about why I posted this thread. Yes, I can claim responsibility for being misleading. I have found that sometimes I can get more answers/results by feigning ignorance. Is that dishonest? Yes. Yes, it is. Sue me for being an STS 3rd density human.
So, what you're saying is that you were faking in your initial post to try to manipulate an answer out of someone? Being dishonest and being an STS 3D human, despite what you tell yourself, isn't mutually exclusive. I know plenty of people, a lot of them in this forum who strive to be honest and open and still share the condition of STS 3D human. That my friend, sounds like a meek excuse for being dishonest. Because honesty, and humility.. not meekness or harmlessness, is a daily choice, not a condition.

What did you think was going to happen? Ark would come out and say "oh I am so sorry, you're right, you're important.. here's all the information you requested, do not waste your wonderful skills" ?? Really?
An STS vehicle does not learn to be an STO candidate by determining the needs of another. - C's
Nor by demanding answers from another nor manipulating and being dishonest about his intentions.

I'll keep living my life as I feel I should and so will you all.
Well, carry on then, if nothing that has been posted here as a response to your "feigning" initial post has any value to you, because it wasn't what you wanted to hear, then what is the point of this discussion in the first place? Your glass seems to be full.
 

Nienna

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
I know the bit you mean...I think they were asked "Are you STS or STO?" and replied "Both. Serve self through others", or something like that. Can't find that bit now but here's another time they say it:

Q: (T) You talk about both STO and STS. Yet you tell us that we need to learn to be STO. Why is there a difference between what we have to do and what you are doing?

A: STO is balance because you serve self through others.

Q: (T) You have said a couple of times that you are STS by being STO. Is this not true?

A: Yes. Already answered.

Q: (T) Kind of like: what goes around, comes around?

A: Yes.
I was thinking of this exchange, too. It seems to me that this "what goes around, comes around" think is something that naturally occurs for these STO beings. They don't go out doing something good so that they can get something good in return, it's just what happens naturally when they do so. They don't anticipate getting anything in return. And, if they do get something, it doesn't necessarily come from whomever they gave something to.

The Cs have numerous times, "Don't anticipate".

Anyway, that's how I see it.
 

Bluegazer

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
They don't go out doing something good so that they can get something good in return, it's just what happens naturally when they do so. They don't anticipate getting anything in return. And, if they do get something, it doesn't necessarily come from whomever they gave something to.

Not only that. When you think about it enough you realize that even being STO doesn't really require you to want to be one. I explain: The C's have pointed out that being STO is about going with the natural flow of things and seeking balance. In that case, you don't really worry about being STO proactively. What you're doing is actually rejecting STS. If you actively reject STS, anticipating not only a direct attack, but also the traps designed to get you into STS mode then, when you reject STS, by default you start walking the STO path. Or more simplified, whenever you reject the lies, only the truth remains and it will fill in any gaps.
 

Mike

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Hi Mikha'El,

I read this again tonight and thought of this thread. We all can fall into and think with ‘internal considering’ and ‘self-importance.’ After reading it tonight, I was like “yep, this has been my default setting in a lot of ways of late and with some fairly recent personal frustrations, etc.” If your aim is to understand and fight against such things, then perhaps you should read it and consider how this thread and your approach to this thread, topic, and feedback given applies to what Gurdjieff has to say...

Internal Considering

There are several different kinds of ′considering.′ On the most prevalent occasions a man [note that in the Russian original, this is "human being"] is identified with what others think about him, how they treat him, what attitude they show towards him. He always thinks that people do not value him enough, are not sufficiently polite and courteous. All this torments him, makes him think and suspect and lose an immense amount of energy on guesswork, on suppositions, develops in him a distrustful and hostile attitude towards people. How somebody looked at him, what somebody thought of him, what somebody said of him - all this acquires for him an immense significance.

And he ′considers′ not only separate persons but society and historically constituted conditions. Everything that displeases such a man seems to him to be unjust, illegal, wrong, and illogical. And the point of departure for his judgment is always that these things can and should be changed. ′Injustice′ is one of the words in which very often considering hides itself. When a man has convinced himself that he is indignant with some injustice, then for him to stop considering would mean ′reconciling himself to injustice.′

There are people who are able to consider not only injustice or the failure of others to value them enough but who are able to consider for example the weather. This seems ridiculous but it is a fact. People are able to consider climate, heat, cold, snow, rain; they can be irritated by the weather, be indignant and angry with it. A man can take everything in such a personal way as though everything in the world had been specially arranged in order to give him pleasure or on the contrary to cause him inconvenience or unpleasantness.

All this and much else besides is merely a form of identification. Such considering is wholly based upon ′requirements.′ A man inwardly ′requires′ that everyone should see what a remarkable man he is and that they should constantly give expression to their respect, esteem, and admiration for him, for his intellect, his beauty, his cleverness, his wit, his presence of mind, his originality, and all his other qualities. Requirements in their turn are based on a completely fantastic notion about themselves such as very often occurs with people of very modest appearance. Various writers, actors, musicians, artists, and politicians, for instance, are almost without exception sick people. And what are they suffering from? First of all from an extraordinary opinion of themselves, then from requirements, and then from considering, that is, being ready and prepared beforehand to take offense at lack of understanding and lack of appreciation.
There is still another form of considering which can take a great deal of energy from a man. This form starts with a man beginning to think that he is not considering another person enough, that this other person is offended with him for not considering him sufficiently.

And he begins to think himself that perhaps he does not think enough about this other, does not pay him enough attention, does not give way to him enough. All this is simply weakness. People are afraid of one another. But this can lead very far. I have seen many such cases. In this way a man can finally lose his balance, if at any time he had any, and begin to perform entirely senseless actions. He gets angry with himself and feels that it is stupid, and he cannot stop, whereas in such cases the whole point is precisely ′not to consider.′
It is the same case, only perhaps worse, when a man considers that in his opinion he ′ought′ to do something when as a matter of fact he ought not to do so at all. ′Ought′ and ′ought not′ is also a difficult subject, that is, difficult to understand when a man really ′ought′ and when he ′ought not.′ This can be approached only from the point of view of ′aim.′ When a man has an aim he ′ought′ to do only what leads towards his aim and he ′ought not′ to do anything that hinders him from going towards his aim.

As I have already said, people very often think that if they begin to struggle with considering within themselves it will make them ′insincere′ and they are afraid of this because they think that in this event they will be losing something, losing a part of themselves. In this case the same thing takes place as in attempts to struggle against the outward expression of unpleasant emotions. The sole difference is that in one case a man struggles with the outward expression of emotions and in the other case with an inner manifestation of perhaps the same emotions.

This fear of losing sincerity is of course self-deception, one of those formulas of lying upon which human weaknesses are based. Man cannot help identifying and considering inwardly and he cannot help expressing his unpleasant emotions, simply because he is weak. Identifying, considering, the expressing of unpleasant emotions, are manifestations of his weakness, his impotence, his inability to control himself. But not wishing to acknowledge this weakness to himself, he calls it ′sincerity′ or ′honesty′ and he tells himself that he does not want to struggle against sincerity, whereas in fact he is unable to struggle against his weaknesses.

Sincerity and honesty are in reality something quite different. What a man calls ′sincerity′ in this case is in reality simply being unwilling to restrain himself. And deep down inside him a man is aware of this. But he lies to himself when he says that he does not want to lose sincerity.

So far I have spoken of internal considering. It would be possible to bring forward many more examples. But you must do this yourselves, that is, you must seek these examples in your observations of yourselves and of others.

The opposite of internal considering and what is in part a means of fighting against it is external considering. External considering is based upon an entirely different relationship towards people than internal considering. It is adaptation towards people, to their understanding, to their requirements. By considering externally a man does that which makes life easy for other people and for himself.

External considering requires a knowledge of men, an understanding of their tastes, habits, and prejudices. At the same time external considering requires a great power over oneself, a great control over oneself. Very often a man desires sincerely to express or somehow or other show to another man what he really thinks of him or feels about him. And if he is a weak man he will of course give way to this desire and afterwards justify himself and say that he did not want to lie, did not want to pretend, he wanted to be sincere. Then he convinces himself that it was the other man′s fault. He really wanted to consider him, even to give way to him, not to quarrel, and so on. But the other man did not at all want to consider him so that nothing could be done with him. It very often happens that a man begins with a blessing and ends with a curse. He begins by deciding not to consider and afterwards blames other people for not considering him. This is an example of how external considering passes into internal considering. But if a man really remembers himself he understands that another man is a machine just as he is himself. And then he will enter into his position, he will put himself in his place, and he will be really able to understand and feel what another man thinks and feels. If he can do this his work becomes easier for him. But if he approaches a man with his own requirements nothing except new internal considering can ever be obtained from it.

Right external considering is very important in the work. It often happens that people who understand very well the necessity of external considering in life do not understand the necessity of external considering in the work; they decide that just because they are in the work they have the right not to consider. Whereas in reality, in the work, that is, for a man′s own successful work, ten times more external considering is necessary than in life, because only external considering on his part shows his valuation of the work and his understanding of the work; and success in the work is always proportional to the valuation and understanding of it.

(Gurdjieff in Ouspensky′s In Search Of The Miraculous.)


 

BHelmet

The Living Force
Interesting wording on the original title of this thread: “when YOU feel like you are being ignored.” So right there is a left-handed indirect projection inviting everyone to engage in remembering a time they felt ignored and associate in some sympathetic way through that feeling with the post/poster. Unconscious manipulation?

Or something like that.

We all fall into this category at times.

How different is that from “I feel like I am being ignored”? So different on so many levels especially in terms of ownership of the experience and personal responsibility. Almost like the comedic: “asking for a friend”

Of course saying “I feel like I am being ignored “ calls for the obvious questions: by whom; how do you know; did you actually ask… did you think about why they are not responding….. etc.

So, people prying is a natural thing especially when the questions are embedded in the asking.

It is always good to consider these breakdowns to be a gift of learning from the universal cosmic zen master.

We all pass through this uncomfortable stuff.

Has enough energy been expended on this?
 

Ruth

The Living Force
This is related to spiritual matters. I am preparing myself to embark on a spiritual journey that could potentially be harmful to me. I was merely seeking some advice, any advice, on a topic that is not really well documented.
Why on earth would you do something that is potentially harmful to yourself? Advice isn't the same as training or experience. Maybe you need to study a bit more on the subject, or even look at it from a different perspective before you do anything. Especially if there's risk.
Maybe the Universe is telling you it's not such a great idea.
That's what my intuition might tell me. Sometimes it's just not the right time, or there's something more to learn before attempting. Especially if what you are about to do is potentially harmful or dangerous. Wishful thinking can be a bit of a trap for the unwary.
 

Martina

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
I have realized that when I have crazy writing style or some unusual ideas that I share with you :-) I actually have a problems with health that influence my thinking a lot. And it's not even that I'm channeling something, it's just a freaking tooth
ache or anemia or low blood pressure so god knows what would happen if I would also decide to build a psychomanteum:lol:?
About self importance, yeah life can beat you down and teach you of humbleness in all kinds of ways, it doesn't have to be someone's dislike or comments on the forum but that's more harmless than like working 2 years a nightshift and sleeping only 3 to 4 hours a day.
I think posting on the forum is important because we all learn something out of it. Nobody's perfect, we are all here to learn.
 

Luks

The Living Force
There are many people who simply advise against things just because they themselves are not competent and feel inferior to others. This pushes them to block others as well. By accusing others of superiority and narcissism, in fact the unconscious show that they feel unsure of themselves towards the other, and in order to react, they transfer their uncertainty and immaturity towards the situation to overconfidence, narcissism and the superiority of others. They who do like that are like paper tigers.

You see, you asking whether to use different forms of channeling. Man go for it, maybe you are that someone. I do not have any special skills in this regard. Although maybe you are able to do it. I'm not saying it's up front that it will benefit you. It may lead you astray. Well, then you will learn something from your mistakes and suffering. Just act according to your own choice... cutting yourself off from outside noise.
 

Alma.Innovadora

Jedi Council Member
I was thinking of this exchange, too. It seems to me that this "what goes around, comes around" think is something that naturally occurs for these STO beings. They don't go out doing something good so that they can get something good in return, it's just what happens naturally when they do so. They don't anticipate getting anything in return. And, if they do get something, it doesn't necessarily come from whomever they gave something to.

The Cs have numerous times, "Don't anticipate".

Anyway, that's how I see it.

Thank you for bringing that material back. Yes, indeed when one does "good deeds" one usually says "god will reward you" for every good deed you do, it will be returned to you. In the sense of natural flow, that is a fact. The problem is when the initial intention of helping others, underlyingly we already do it with the anticipation that we will "get" a reward in the future that we would also like it to be in the immediate future and we even demand what we want in return and that is when we automatically block the energies for things to flow naturally because we are not really doing something in a selfless way. And when help shows up, it is even from those you least expect it, for example a stranger you just met one day shows up and offers you a job or information on where someone needs what you do, etc. The information begins to manifest itself in the environment. And sometimes, even from a person you don't even want to see again, because there is another job within that job.

When I was blocked when I saw that everything seemed to be going down, especially because I was in that dead end, if I help so many people why do I get the opposite? in the street always appeared a person with physical problems or an old lady asking for help to cross the street -which also made me ask myself, well, I must be a helper of people with disabilities who appear more and more? but in doing so, that made me forget completely about the issue that blocked me and I really felt at peace, and I'm not talking about peace as a product of religious programming, even momentarily to address the issue more clearly later. First, because it was a direct demonstration that someone was much worse off than I was, so what was I really complaining about? and second, it was the closest I could get to helping in a selfless way.

That person was not an acquaintance to whom to consciously and unconsciously attribute a demand, reciprocity, pending favor, back.

Sometimes saying "I only expect reciprocity" also contains anticipation, because you are expected to get something back, anticipating a short-term reward or controlling the person within "I helped you, now you owe me a favor and you can't say no to me." We would only be manipulating to serve us in a STS way.
 

Alejo

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
There are many people who simply advise against things just because they themselves are not competent and feel inferior to others. This pushes them to block others as well. By accusing others of superiority and narcissism, in fact the unconscious show that they feel unsure of themselves towards the other, and in order to react, they transfer their uncertainty and immaturity towards the situation to overconfidence, narcissism and the superiority of others. They who do like that are like paper tigers.

You see, you asking whether to use different forms of channeling. Man go for it, maybe you are that someone. I do not have any special skills in this regard. Although maybe you are able to do it. I'm not saying it's up front that it will benefit you. It may lead you astray. Well, then you will learn something from your mistakes and suffering. Just act according to your own choice... cutting yourself off from outside noise.
I am no expert in jumping off of a building, and I am completely ok with that, but suggesting someone not to do it because of the very certain consequences, risks and whatnot, could be a reflection of my lack of expertise on jumping off of a building, BUT my advice is also true.

Also, I noticed that you never replied to a question I posted on your thread a little while ago, just in case you missed it I will leave the link here.
 

mkrnhr

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
I am no expert in jumping off of a building, and I am completely ok with that, but suggesting someone not to do it because of the very certain consequences, risks and whatnot, could be a reflection of my lack of expertise on jumping off of a building, BUT my advice is also true.
Exactly. And to expand on the same image, if I'm not an expert in jumping off buildings and I warn someone that it is dangerous, is that "cowardly"? Nobody's blocking anybody, people are free to listen to a warning or not. Now if on the other hand I'm no expert in jumping off buildings and I don't personally do it, but when someone talks about it I tell them: "yeah go for it, it will be fine, no problem". How is that of any help I wonder.
 
Top Bottom