The Forgotten Exodus: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution

Joe

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I just stumbled upon a documentary, released only 2 months ago, called Neandertal, the Mystery of the Bruniquel Cave. It's about the discovery and investigation of a Neanderthal circular 'structure' made entirely of stalagmites found inside a cave in France, which was explored for the first time in the 1990's.

According to wiki, the evidence points to the structure being about 176,000 years ago. Its complexity and its depth within the cave - which would have necessitated the use of fire for illumination - is apparently a first and points to Neanderthals being much more complex socially and perhaps possessing a more sophisticated intelligence than once assumed.

I been there! Not the cave, you're not allowed, just the exhibition in Bruniquel castle. But I'd be suspicious about their claim that they were neanderthals. We're talking standard 'out of Africa' stuff here.
 

Aeneas

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I been there! Not the cave, you're not allowed, just the exhibition in Bruniquel castle. But I'd be suspicious about their claim that they were neanderthals. We're talking standard 'out of Africa' stuff here.
I agree. I just watched it and thought it to be very interesting and just having to put a big question mark on the neanderthal part. But fascinating to watch how they went about testing hypothesis and recreating what they found.

The scientists involved are schooled in the Out of Africa theory, so no wonder they repeat that and work with that as their basis. Hence they show all of modern Europe and the whole of Russia to be the land of the Neanderthals and Africa to be the land of modern humans.
 

Aeneas

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The logical next step would be to do DNA test on the bones of these "Neanderthals" and then see how much Neanderthal they find. I suspect they don't normally do that as they work with the established dogma and thus don't challenge that the bones could be those of 'modern humans'.

Sooner or later someone will do the testing, just as it has been done elsewhere if I remember correctly from Bruce Fenton's book.
 

Laura

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By Stephanie Pappas - Live Science Contributor 2 days ago History

Who were the ancient people from the mysterious Harappan Civilization?

Ancient DNA evidence reveals that the people of the mysterious and complex Indus Valley Civilization are genetically linked to modern South Asians today.

The same gene sequences, drawn from a single individual who died nearly 5,000 years ago and was buried in a cemetery near Rakhigarhi, India, also suggest that the Indus Valley developed farming independently, without major migrations from neighboring farming regions. It's the first time an individual from the ancient Indus Valley Civilization has yielded any DNA information whatsoever, enabling researchers to link this civilization both to its neighbors and to modern humans.

The Indus Valley, or Harappan, Civilization flourished between about 3300 B.C. and 1300 B.C. in the region that is now covered by parts of Afghanistan, Pakistan and northwestern India, contemporaneous with ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia. The people of the Indus Valley forged an impressively advanced civilization, with large urban centers, standardized systems of weights and measurements and even drainage and irrigation systems. Yet despite that sophistication, archaeologists know far less about the civilization than that of ancient Egypt or Mesopotamia, in part because the Indus Valley writing system hasn't yet been deciphered.

Elusive DNA
Gathering ancient DNA from the Indus Valley is an enormous challenge, Vagheesh Narasimhan, one of the leading authors of the new research and a postdoctoral fellow in genetics at Harvard Medical School, Live Science, because the hot, humid climate tends to degrade DNA rapidly. Narasimhan and his colleagues attempted to extract DNA from 61 individuals from the Rakhigarhi cemetery and were successful with only one, skeleton likely belonging to a female which was found nestled in a grave amid round pots, her head to the north and feet to the south.

The first revelation from the ancient gene sequences was that some of the inhabitants of the Indus Valley are connected by a genetic thread to modern-day South Asians. "About two-thirds to three-fourths of the ancestry of all modern South Asians comes from a population group related to that of this Indus Valley individual," Narasimhan said.

Where the Indus Valley individual came from is a more difficult question, he said. But the genes do suggest that the highly agricultural Indus people were not closely related to their farming neighbors in the western part of what is now Iran.



"We were able to examine different associations between the advent of farming in that part of the world with the movement of people in that part of the world," said Narasimhan.

Farming, Narasimhan said, first began in the Fertile Crescent of the Middle East around 10,000 years ago. No one knows precisely how it spread from there. Did agriculture pop up independently in areas around the globe, perhaps observed by travelers who brought the idea to plant and cultivate seeds back home? Or did farmers move, bringing their new agricultural lifestyle with them?

In Europe, the genetic evidence suggests that the latter is true: Stone Age farmers introduced Southern Europe to agriculture, then moved north, spreading the practice as they went. But the new Indus Valley genetic evidence hints at a different story in South Asia. The Indus Valley individual's genes diverged from those of other farming cultures in Iran and the Fertile Crescent before 8000 B.C., the researchers found.

"It diverges at a time prior to the advent of farming almost anywhere in the world," Narasimhan said. In other words, the Indus Valley individual wasn't the descendent of wandering Fertile Crescent farmers. She came from a civilization that either developed farming on its own, or simply imported the idea from neighbors — without importing the actual neighbors.

Both immigration and ideas are plausible ways to spread farming, Narasimhan said, and the new research suggests that both happened: immigration in Europe, ideas in South Asia. The results appear today (Sept. 5) in the journal Cell.

Complex populations
The researchers also attempted to link the Indus Valley individual to his or her contemporaries. In a companion paper published today in the journal Science, the researchers reported on ancient and modern DNA data from 523 individuals who lived in South and Central Asia over the last 8,000 years. Intriguingly, 11 of these people — all from outside the Indus Valley — had genetic data that closely matched the Indus Valley Individual. These 11 people also had unusual burials for their locations, Narasimhan said. Together, the genetic and archaeological data hint that those 11 people were migrants from the Indus Valley Civilization to other places, he said.

However, these conclusions should be viewed as tentative, warned Jonathan Mark Kenoyer, an archaeologist and expert on the Indus Valley Civilization at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, who was not involved in the new research. Archaeological evidence suggests that Indus Valley cities were cosmopolitan places populated by people from many different regions, so one person's genetic makeup might not match the rest of the population. Furthermore, Kenoyer said, burial was a less common way of dealing with the dead than cremation.

"So whatever we do have from cemeteries is not representative of the ancient populations of the Indus cities, but only of one part of one community living in these cities," Kenoyer said.


And though the Indus individual and the 11 potential migrants found in other areas might have been related, more ancient DNA samples will be needed to show which way people, and their genes, were moving, he said.

Narasimhan echoed this need for more data, comparing the cities of the Indus Valley to modern-day Tokyo or New York City, where people gather from around the world. Ancient DNA is a tool for understanding these complex societies, he said.

"Population mixture and movement at very large scales is just a fundamental fact of human history," he said. "Being able to document this with ancient DNA, I think, is very powerful."
 

Gaby

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Who were the ancient people from the mysterious Harappan Civilization?

Ancient DNA evidence reveals that the people of the mysterious and complex Indus Valley Civilization are genetically linked to modern South Asians today.

More details here:

Largest-ever ancient-DNA study illuminates millennia of South and Central Asian prehistory, including Indus Valley Civilization

 

Aeneas

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From the article:
A 2015 paper by Reich and colleagues indicated that Indo-European languages arrived in Europe via the steppe. The Science study now makes a similar case for South Asia by showing that present-day South Asians have little if any ancestry from farmers with Anatolian roots.

Ancient DNA study tracks formation of populations across Central Asia
The largest-ever ancient DNA study illuminates millennia of Central and South Asian population history. Credit: Oliver Uberti and Science
"We can rule out a large-scale spread of farmers with Anatolian roots into South Asia, the centerpiece of the 'Anatolian hypothesis' that such movement brought farming and Indo-European languages into the region," said Reich, who is also an investigator of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute and the Broad Institute. "Since no substantial movements of people occurred, this is checkmate for the Anatolian hypothesis."

One new line of evidence in favor of a steppe origin for Indo-European languages is the detection of genetic patterns that connect speakers of the Indo-Iranian and Balto-Slavic branches of Indo-European. The researchers found that present-day speakers of both branches descend from a subgroup of steppe pastoralists who moved west toward Europe almost 5,000 years ago and then spread back eastward into Central and South Asia in the following 1,500 years.

"This provides a simple explanation in terms of ancient movements of people for the otherwise puzzling shared linguistic features of these two branches of Indo-European, which today are separated by vast geographic distances," said Reich.

A second line of evidence in favor of a steppe origin is the researchers' discovery that of the 140 present-day South Asian populations analyzed in the study, a handful show a remarkable spike in ancestry from the steppe. All but one of these steppe-enriched populations are historically priestly groups, including Brahmins—traditional custodians of texts written in the ancient Indo-European language Sanskrit.

"The finding that Brahmins often have more steppe ancestry than other groups in South Asia, controlling for other factors, provides a fascinating new argument in favor of a steppe origin for Indo-European languages in South Asia," said Reich.

First ancient DNA from Indus Valley civilization links its people to modern South Asians

A photograph of a red slipped ware globular pot placed near the head of the skeleton that yielded ancient DNA.

There are lines as well as indentations on the upper right side, just below the rim. The indentations on the body of the pot could be examples of ancient graffiti and/or "Indus script". Credit: Vasant Shinde / Deccan College Post Graduate and Research Institute
"This study has filled in a large piece of the puzzle of the spread of Indo-European," said co-author Nick Patterson, research fellow in genetics at HMS and a staff scientist at the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard. "I believe the high-level picture is now understood."

"This problem has been in the air for 200 years or more and it's now rapidly being sorted out," he added. "I'm very excited by that."
 

Laura

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So it is again looking like Yamnaya is the place!
The Yamnaya culture is identified with the late Proto-Indo-Europeans, and is the strongest candidate for the urheimat (original homeland) of the Proto-Indo-European language.

And this about who the Yamnaya were genetically:

According to Jones et al. (2015) and Haak et al. (2015), autosomic tests indicate that the Yamnaya people were the result of a genetic admixture between two different hunter-gatherer populations: distinctive "Eastern European hunter-gatherers" with high affinity to the Mal'ta–Buret' culture or other, closely related people from Siberia[4] and a population of "Caucasus hunter-gatherers" who probably arrived from the Caucasus.[15][3] Each of those two populations contributed about half the Yamnaya DNA.[5][3] According to co-author Andrea Manica of the University of Cambridge:
The question of where the Yamnaya come from has been something of a mystery up to now ... we can now answer that, as we've found that their genetic make-up is a mix of Eastern European hunter-gatherers and a population from this pocket of Caucasus hunter-gatherers who weathered much of the last Ice Age in apparent isolation.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamnaya_culture#cite_note-bbcnov16-4
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamnaya_culture#cite_note-bbcnov16-4

Remember this about Kantek etc from 31 Jun 1997:

Q: In the information I now have on the Canaries, I found that a strange icon appeared on the island long before the conquest, long before any missionaries or Europeans arrived. The natives were the big, blond types. They said that they knew this icon was divine because following its appearance, there were processions of angels, or divine beings, up and down the beach where it appeared, lights, smells, chanting and singing and so forth. How did the statue of the Virgin of Candelaria arrive on the beach at Tenerife?

A: Teleportation.

Q: Who teleported it there?

A: The "Celts."

Q: Celts in the sense of the Druids?

A: Or in the sense of Atlanteans.

Q: Now, you said before that Atlanteans were not Celts, is that correct?

A: No.

Q: The Atlanteans were Celts?

A: "Celts, Druids," etc... are merely latter day designations.

Q: Let's back up here. You said that the Celts came from Kantek. They were transported by the Lizzies... brought here, correct?

A: Yes.

Q: When the Lizzies did this, how many Celts were physically brought here?

A: Hundreds of millions.

Q: How long, in our terms, did it take to bring these Celts to this planet? Or, is this ongoing?

A: Well, in the sense that you measure it, let us say about a week.

Q: Did they transport them in ships, that is some sort of structure. That is, did they load them up, move them into 4th density, reemerge here in 3rd density, or something like that?

A: Close.

Q: And they unloaded them in the area of the Caucasus, is that correct?

A: And regions surrounding.

Q: And, that was what, 79 to 80 thousand years ago?

A: Over 80,000.

Q: As I understand it, Atlantis was already quite a developed civilization at that time, is that correct?

A: Yes, but regions change with waves of immigration, or conquest... witness your own lands.

Q: You also said once that there was a nuclear war in India and that this was what was being discussed in the Vedas when it talks about the 'blue-skinned' people who weren't really blue because they were Celts, and they were flying in aircraft, and they were engaged in this war, etc. Who were the Celts at war with?

A: The Paranthas.

Q: Now, wait a minute! Who are the Paranthas?! Do we have a new player here?

A: Not new.

Q: Do we know them by another name?

A: Choose.

Q: The Atlanteans? Were the Celts of India at war with the Atlanteans in the Atlantic?

A: Atlantis was merely a home base of an advanced civilisation of 3 races of humans occupying different sections of a huge Island empire, which, in itself, underwent 3 incarnations over a 100,000 year period as you would measure it.

Q: The 3 races were the Celts... and who were the second and third?

A: Or Kantekkians.

Q: Are the Kantekkians different from the Celts?

A: Only in the sense of long term racial and genetic blending.

Q: So, Atlantis had the Kantekkians and who else?

A: Race you would call "Native Americans," and a third, no longer existing race, somewhat resembling Australian or Guinean aborigines, only lighter in complexion.

Q: Was this third group destroyed by the other two?

A: One of the 3 cataclysms.

Q: Paranthas. Who were the Paranthas?

A: Nation of race mentioned above.

Q: So, the Paranthas were the antecedents of the Abos of Australia?

A: Yes, and compare to now existing peoples of India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Australia, and New Guinea for similarities, bearing in mind genetic mixing and dilution.

The "Paranthas" the Cs mention apparently map to the Denisovans about which nobody knew anything at the time of the above session. Just another HIT for the Cs!

Next, see this:

Late last fall, I reported that scientists had discovered a European ghost population. This group of people then referred to as the ANE, Ancient Northern Europeans, was a previously unknown population from the north that had mixed into the known European populations, the Hunter-Gatherers and the farmers from the Middle East, the Neolithic.

That discovery came as a result of the full genome sequencing of a few ancient specimens, including one from the Altai.
Recently, several papers have been published as a result of ongoing sequencing efforts of another 200 or so ancient specimens. As a result, scientists now believe that this ghost population has been identified as the Yamnaya and that they began a mass migration in different directions, including Europe, about 5,000 years ago. Along with their light skin and brown eyes, they brought along with them their gene(s) for lactose tolerance. So, if you have European heritage and are lactose tolerant, then maybe you can thank your Yamnaya ancestors.

Funny thing is, the majority of human beings living today are lactose intolerant.

More:

Why might these recent discoveries be important to many genetic genealogists? Primarily, because Y haplogroup R has been identified in ancient Russian remains dating from 2700-3400 BCE. Haplogroup R and subgroups had not been found in the ancient European remains sequenced as of last fall. In addition, subgroups of mitochondrial haplogroups U, W, H, T and W have been identified as well.


Recent studies over the years have revealed that most central and northern Europeans, as well as some groups in central Asia, are descended from the Yamnaya. It appears that, beginning 2800-3000 BC, the Yamnaya moved out from somewhere in modern-day western Russia or the Ukraine and began to move into the plains of central Europe.


The Yamnaya migrated from modern-day western Russia or the Ukraine and into the plains of central Europe. (Бутывский Дмитрий / CC BY-SA 4.0)


The Yamnaya migrated from modern-day western Russia or the Ukraine and into the plains of central Europe. (Бутывский Дмитрий / CC BY-SA 4.0 )

One interesting aspect of the Yamnaya migration is that it seems to have consisted mostly of men. The genetic evidence suggests overwhelmingly that Yamnaya men intermarried with European women to create some modern European populations, particularly the people of central and northern Europe. The Yamnaya also appear to be behind the Corded Ware culture .

[...]
The Yamnaya crossed enormous distances, likely because of a newly domesticated animal at the time, the horse. Horses were domesticated some time before 3,000 BC in central Asia. One of the earliest material cultures associated with a domesticated horse species is the Botai culture . The domestication of the horse would have given nomadic groups more mobility allowing them to go greater distances. It would be as if they had suddenly been given a car.

[...]

Man, from Yamnaya culture, sculptural reconstruction. (Math920 / Public Domain)


Man, from Yamnaya culture, sculptural reconstruction. ( Math920 / Public Domain)

The Yamnaya lifestyle appears to have been a mixture of pastoralism, agriculture, and hunting and gathering which is similar to the lifestyles of later European cultures such as the Celts and early Germanic cultures. This makes sense since these recent findings would suggest that the Germanic people and the Celts were their descendants.

[...]
The Kurgan cultures are thought to represent not just one migration, but many, of which the Yamnaya may have been the first. These migrations are traditionally believed to have taken place between about 4000 BC and 1000 BC.


Indo-European-migrations.jpg



Indo-European migrations according to the Kurgan hypothesis. (Joshua Jonathan / CC BY-SA 3.0 )

[...]
In history, pastoralist nomads are often characterized as warlike, uncooperative barbarians. This is understandable since the people that recorded history tend to be from the sedentary agricultural societies that pastoralist nomads had a habit of raiding.


It makes sense that agricultural civilizations would have a dim view of these nomadic raiders and paint them in a negative light. It is also true that, sometimes, nomadic pastoralists are warlike as innumerable examples in history show. Archaeological evidence does suggest, however, that ancient pastoralist nomads had another side to them.


They did engage in occasional raids, but there is also evidence that there was significant trade and communication between different nomadic groups and farming communities. Evidence is mounting that pastoralist nomads helped to create a vast trade network stretching across much of Eurasia in which goods and information were transferred. Many societies involved in this network were probably decentralized tribes and chiefdoms.


Nonetheless, they helped create an inter-continental trade network that connected agricultural civilizations across the ancient world. It could be said that the first movement towards economic and cultural globalization was implemented by pastoralist nomads wandering the steppes of central Eurasia.

Then, see this for a rather negative view of origins probably based on the views of some Libtard/Leftist:

The Caucasian Hunter Gatherers are interesting:


The Caucasus hunter-gatherers descended from a population that split off very early around 45,000 years ago, pre-dating the split that led to differentiated populations that descended separately to Ust'-Ishim man, Oase1 and European hunter-gatherers.[4] The Caucasus hunter-gatherers managed to survive in isolation through the last Ice Age as a distinct population.
[...]

The study detected a split between CHG and so-called "Western European Hunter-Gatherer" (WHG) lineages, about 45,000 years ago, the presumed time of the original peopling of Europe. CHG separated from the "Early Anatolian Farmers" (EAF) lineage later, at 25,000 years ago, during the Last Glacial Maximum. (CHG was extrapolated from, among other sources, the genomes of two fossils from western Georgia – one about 13,300 years old (Late Upper Paleolithic) and the other 9,700 years (Mesolithic), which were compared to the 13,700 year-old Bichon man genome (found in Switzerland).[1]

Jones et al. (2015) analyzed genomes from males from western Georgia, in the Caucasus, from the Late Upper Palaeolithic (13,300 years old) and the Mesolithic (9,700 years old). These two males carried Y-DNA haplogroup: J* and J2a. The researchers found that these Caucasus hunters were probably the source of the Near Eastern DNA in the Yamnaya.[2] Their genomes showed that a continued mixture of the Caucasians with Middle Eastern populations took place up to 25,000 years ago, when the coldest period in the last Ice Age started.[

[...]
According to Lazaridis et al. (2016), "a population related to the people of the Iran Chalcolithic contributed ~ 43 % of the ancestry of early Bronze Age populations of the steppe."[8] These Iranian Chacolithic people were a mixture of "the Neolithic people of western Iran, the Levant, and Caucasus Hunter Gatherers".[8][note 1] The Near East population were most likely hunter-gatherers from the Caucasus (CHG),[9] though one study suggested that farmers dated to the Chalcolithic era from what is now Iran may be a better fit for the Yamanya's Near Eastern descent.

Etc.

It really helps to read "Plato, Prehistorian" to get a grip on what might actually have been going on. And then, follow that up with "When Zarathustra Spoke".
 

mrtn

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Here is a map about worldwide lactose intolerance
I'm kidding of course about the heart attacks. But seriously, it seems that most Americans just don't have the same love and affection (and possibly lactose tolerance) as certain parts of Europe with countries like Sweden consuming between two and three hundred Kgs (that's 440-660 lbs for us 'Mericans) of milk per capita per year. Meanwhile, China's consumption of milk is among the lowest with 37 Kgs (81 lbs) per capita per year. This next image illustrating the percentage of each country's population allergic to lactose--a sugar found in milk and dairy products--might shed some light on these statistics.




It turns out that over 90% of China's population is allergic to lactose, which might explain it's low consumption. I'd probably be less inclined to eat something that gave me indigestion, but I am still a sucker for rest-stop sushi. C'est la vie.


Meanwhile, Sweden's population of lactose intolerant individuals is right around 4%. Back over in the US, lactose intolerance varies by race with about 74% of African Americans, 87% of Indians and 14% of Caucasians with some kind of lactose allergy.
 

thorbiorn

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Then, see this for a rather negative view of origins probably based on the views of some Libtard/Leftist:
It is more or less a repetition of an article title in New Scientist: Story of most murderous people of all time revealed in ancient DNA All I can see about the question is the following:
The migrants’ ultimate source was a group of livestock herders called the Yamnaya who occupied the Eurasian steppe north of the Black Sea and the Caucasus mountains. Britain wasn’t their only destination. Between 5000 and 4000 years ago, the Yamnaya and their descendants colonised swathes of Europe, leaving a genetic legacy that persists to this day. Their arrival coincided with profound social and cultural changes. Burial practices shifted dramatically, a warrior class appeared, and there seems to have been a sharp upsurge in lethal violence. “I’ve become increasingly convinced there must have been a kind of genocide,” says Kristian Kristiansen at the University of Gothenburg, Sweden. As he and others piece together the story, one question resounds: were the Yamnaya the most murderous people in history?

Before about 5000 years ago, Neolithic Europe was inhabited by people much like those who raised Stonehenge. They were farmers with an urge to work together and build large stone structures. “It looks like these people were quite communal,” says Kristiansen. And that community spirit continued into the afterlife: many of their megalithic monuments …
The CV of Kristian Kristiansen is here: Kristian Kristiansen - University of Gothenburg, Sweden One would have to go to New Scientist to find out what their reasoning is.
 

Adaryn

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Then, see this for a rather negative view of origins probably based on the views of some Libtard/Leftist:

Yes, probably. The most murderous people of all time? Ouah!! Can you think of a more sensationalist, stupid title? Totally unscientific.
Time for a little debunking:

How the genocidal Yamnaya men loved to switch cultures
Carlos Quiles
March 31, 2019

After some really interesting fantasy full of arrows, it seems Kristiansen & friends are coming back to their most original idea from 2015, now in New Scientist’s recent clickbait Story of most murderous people of all time revealed in ancient DNA (2019):
Teams led by David Reich at Harvard Medical School and Eske Willerslev at the University of Copenhagen in Denmark announced, independently, that occupants of Corded Ware graves in Germany could trace about three-quarters of their genetic ancestry to the Yamnaya. It seemed that Corded Ware people weren’t simply copying the Yamnaya; to a large degree they actually were Yamnayan in origin.
If you think you have seen that movie, it’s because you have. They are at it again, Corded Ware from Yamna, and more “steppe ancestry” = “more Indo-European“. It seems we haven’t learnt anything about “Steppe ancestry” since 2015. But there’s more:

Genocidal peoples who “switch cultures”
Burial practices shifted dramatically, a warrior class appeared, and there seems to have been a sharp upsurge in lethal violence. “I’ve become increasingly convinced there must have been a kind of genocide,” says Kristian Kristiansen at the University of Gothenburg, Sweden.
The collaboration revealed that the origin and initial spread of Bell Beaker culture had little to do – at least genetically – with the expansion of the Yamnaya or Corded Ware people into central Europe. “It started in It is in that region that the earliest Bell Beaker objects – including arrowheads, copper daggers and distinctive Bell-shaped pots – have been found, in archaeological sites carbon-dated to 4700 years ago. Then, Bell Beaker culture began to spread east, although the people more or less stayed put. By about 4600 years ago, it reached the most westerly Corded Ware people around where the Netherlands now lies. For reasons still unclear, the Corded Ware people fully embraced it. “They simply take on part of the Bell Beaker package and become Beaker people,” says Kristiansen.
The fact that the genetic analysis showed the Britons then all-but disappeared within a couple of generations might be significant. It suggests the capacity for violence that emerged when the Yamnaya lived on the Eurasia steppe remained even as these people moved into Europe, switched identity from Yamnaya to Corded Ware, and then switched again from Corded Ware to Bell Beaker.
Notice what Kristiansen did there? Yamnaya men “switched identities” into Corded Ware, then “switched identities” into Bell Beakers…So, the most aggresive peoples who have ever existed, exterminating all other Europeans, were actually not so violent when embracing wholly different cultures whose main connection is that they built kurgans (yes, Gimbutas lives on).

NOTE. By the way, just so we are clear, only Indo-Europeans are “genocidal”. Not like Neolithic farmers, or Palaeolithic or Mesolithic populations, or more recent Bronze Age or Iron Age peoples, who also replaced Y-DNA from many regions…

yamnaya-corded-ware-bell-beaker
In fact, there is much stronger evidence that these Yamnaya Beakers were ruthless. By about 4500 years ago, they had pushed westwards into the Iberian Peninsula, where the Bell Beaker culture originated a few centuries earlier. Within a few generations, about 40 per cent of the DNA of people in the region could be traced back to the incoming Yamnaya Beakers, according to research by a large team including Reich that was published this month. More strikingly, the ancient DNA analysis reveals that essentially all the men have Y chromosomes characteristic of the Yamnaya, suggesting only Yamnaya men had children.
“The collision of these two populations was not a friendly one, not an equal one, but one where the males from outside were displacing local males and did so almost completely,” Reich told New Scientist Live in September. This supports Kristiansen’s view of the Yamnaya and their descendants as an almost unimaginably violent people. Indeed, he is about to publish a paper in which he argues that they were responsible for the genocide of Neolithic Europe’s men. “It’s the only way to explain that no male Neolithic lines survived,” he says.
So these unimaginably violent Yamnaya men had children exclusively with their Y chromosomes…but not Dutch Single Grave peoples. These great great steppe-like northerners switched culture, cephalic index…and Y-chromosome from R1a (and others) to R1b-L151 to expand Italo-Celtic From The West™.
It’s hilarious how (exactly like their latest funny episode of PIE from south of the Caucasus) this new visionary idea copied by Copenhagen from amateur friends (or was it the other way around?) had been already rejected before this article came out, in Olalde et al. (2019), and that “Corded Ware=Indo-European” fans have become a parody of themselves.

What’s not to love about 2019 with all this back-and-forth hopping between old and new pet theories?

NOTE. I would complain (again) that the obsessive idea of the Danes is that Denmark CWC is (surprise!) the Pre-Germanic community, so it has nothing to do with “steppe ancestry = Indo-European” (or even with “Corded Ware = Indo-European”, for that matter), but then again you have Koch still arguing for Celtic from the West, Kortlandt still arguing for Balto-Slavic from the east, and – no doubt worst of all – “R1a=IE / R1b=Vasconic / N1c=Uralic” ethnonationalists arguing for whatever is necessary right now, in spite of genetic research.
So prepare for the next episode in the nativist and haplogroup fetishist comedy, now with western and eastern Europeans hand in hand: Samara -> Khvalynsk -> Yamnaya -> Bell Beaker spoke Vasconic-Tyrsenian, because R1b. Wait for it…

Vanguard Yamnaya groups

On a serious note, interesting comment by Heyd in the article:
A striking example of this distinction is a discovery made near the town of Valencina de la Concepción in southern Spain. Archaeologists working there found a Yamnaya-like kurgan, below which was the body of a man buried with a dagger and Yamnaya-like sandals, and decorated with red pigment just as Yamnaya dead were. But the burial is 4875 years old and genetic information suggests Yamnaya-related people didn’t reach that far west until perhaps 4500 years ago. “Genetically, I’m pretty sure this burial has nothing to do with the Yamnaya or the Corded Ware,” says Heyd. “But culturally – identity-wise – there is an aspect that can be clearly linked with them.” It would appear that the ideology, lifestyle and death rituals of the Yamnaya could sometimes run far ahead of the migrants.
NOTE. I have been trying to find which kurgan is this, reviewing this text on the archaeological site, but didn’t find anything beyond occasional ochre and votive sandals, which are usual. Does some reader know which one is it?
yamna-expansion-bell-beakers Yamna Yamna expansion and succeeding East Bell Beaker expansion, without color on Bell Beaker territories. Notice vanguard Yamna groups in blue where East Bell Beakers later emerge. See original image with Bell Beaker territories.

Notice how, if you add all those vanguard Yamna findings of Central and Western Europe, including this one from southern Spain, you begin to get a good idea of the territories occupied by East Bell Beakers expanding later. More or less like vanguard Abashevo and Sintashta finds in the Zeravshan valley heralded the steppe-related Srubna-Andronovo expansions in Turan…

It doesn’t seem like Proto-Beaker and Yamna just “crossed paths” at some precise time around the Lower Danube, and Yamna men “switched cultures”. It seems that many Yamna vanguard groups, probably still in long-distance contact with Yamna settlers from the Carpathian Basin, were already settled in different European regions in the first half of the 3rd millennium BC, before the explosive expansion of East Bell Beakers ca. 2500 BC. As Heyd says, there are potentially many Yamna settlements along the Middle and Lower Danube and tributaries not yet found, connecting the Carpathian Basin to Western and Northern Europe.

These vanguard groups would have more easily transformed their weakened eastern Yamna connections with the fashionable Proto-Beaker package expanding from the west (and surrounding all of these loosely connected settlements), just like the Yamna materials from Seville probably represent a close cultural contact of Chalcolithic Iberia with a Yamna settlement (the closest known site with Yamna traits is near Alsace, where high Yamna ancestry is probably going to be found in a Bell Beaker R1b-L151 individual).

This does not mean that there wasn’t a secondary full-scale migration from the Carpathian Basin and nearby settlements, just like Corded Ware shows a secondary (A-horizon?) migration to the east with R1a-Z645. It just means that there was a complex picture of contacts between Yamna and European Chalcolithic groups before the expansion of Bell Beakers. Doesn’t seem genocidal enough for a popular movie, tho.

Related
 

thorbiorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Yes, probably. The most murderous people of all time? Ouah!! Can you think of a more sensationalist, stupid title? Totally unscientific.
Time for a little debunking:
Thank you for posting. I looked up the original site and found the author also has three books out and they are available for download in pdf A Song of Sheep and Horses – Indo-European.eu
This is the general page for updates of the series of books A Song of Sheep and Horses: eurafrasia nostratica, eurasia indouralica. Each book focuses on different aspects of Proto-Indo-European and Proto-Uralic languages and peoples, and their evolution.

The books represented initially a full revision of our previous essays – Indo-European demic diffusion model (for archaeology and population genomics) and North-West Indo-European (for linguistic reconstruction) – and have grown into reference works to be continuously updated with recently published papers and books.
There are about a 1000 pages with so many references to research including 2019, that it appears more like a long "paper" than an ordinary book.
 

Aeneas

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
And this about who the Yamnaya were genetically:
[...]
According to co-author Andrea Manica of the University of Cambridge:
The question of where the Yamnaya come from has been something of a mystery up to now ... we can now answer that, as we've found that their genetic make-up is a mix of Eastern European hunter-gatherers and a population from this pocket of Caucasus hunter-gatherers who weathered much of the last Ice Age in apparent isolation.[3]
Yamnaya culture - Wikipedia
Yamnaya culture - Wikipedia
Just to put this in perspective.
The last ice age:
The Last Glacial Period (LGP) occurred from the end of the Eemian to the end of the Younger Dryas, encompassing the period c. 115,000 – c. 11,700 years ago.

Then from the quote from the C's:
Q: And they unloaded them in the area of the Caucasus, is that correct?

A: And regions surrounding.

Q: And, that was what, 79 to 80 thousand years ago?

A: Over 80,000.

Yes, that certainly puts them right there in the last Ice Age. Here is a picture of the Caucasus mountains as it looks today.
1280px-Caucasus_topographic_map-en.svg.png


During the maximum of the last Ice Age, about 20000 years ago, the world looked at bit like this. The Caucasus is totally icefree:

Glacial_Maximum_World_Map.jpg


Or to get a bit closer:

Europe_During_Last_Ice_Age.gif


As can be seen from the images, then the areas all around the Caucasus was icefree for hundreds or even thousands of kilometers. It was tundra and steppe and with some forests.

My question is what kept them in that area for so long, without venturing out to explore other areas, especially if they were so genocidal ;) Did they just repress that urge to kill and exterminate for 75000 years and then got itchy feet?

Was it simply the domestication of the horse that made transport possible and thus allowed the possibility to go to far away places? Or if they did arrive from Kantek, was trauma perhaps another reason why it took them so long time to venture out to other places apart from the limitations of transport? 75000 is a very long time to stay put and not for someone or a group to be curious enough to see what is on the other side of a far away mountain in the distance. Especially as they - from what I gather - were intellectually not less intelligent than us.

The reason I am wondering is because we are meant to believe the Out of Africa theory, where they just walked all over the planet without waiting for the domestication of the horse to take place. If you look at a picture from the wiki website on the Out of Africa theory, you can see that our 'other' ancestors during the same time period of the Caucasus hunter-gatherers, weren't afraid to go for a walk using their bare feet:
330px-Spreading_homo_sapiens_la.svg.png


It could be interesting to make a list of known major earth-shattering events in this period, such as major volcanic eruptions, mega-earthquakes or asteroid events like the two massive craters which have been found within the last year or two in Greenland, having taken place within the last 30000 years.
 

Approaching Infinity

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
My question is what kept them in that area for so long, without venturing out to explore other areas, especially if they were so genocidal ;) Did they just repress that urge to kill and exterminate for 75000 years and then got itchy feet?

Was it simply the domestication of the horse that made transport possible and thus allowed the possibility to go to far away places? Or if they did arrive from Kantek, was trauma perhaps another reason why it took them so long time to venture out to other places apart from the limitations of transport? 75000 is a very long time to stay put and not for someone or a group to be curious enough to see what is on the other side of a far away mountain in the distance. Especially as they - from what I gather - were intellectually not less intelligent than us.

Good questions! I'm trying to figure out some answers too. First thing to keep in mind is that thanks to guys like David Reich, there's some ancient DNA evidence to look at. Unfortunately, the period of the ice age is the least represented. I think there's only something like 22 sites where they've managed to get such sources so far. But even that tells us something, as well as what can be extrapolated back from later DNA.

The current picture, which could very well prove to be wrong in many ways or at least woefully incomplete, looks something like this for the Ice Age period and the Upper Paleolithic leading up to the Younger-Dryas (from the site thorbiorn found - I happened to find the same site earlier today too while searching):

up to 35k BC:
1-out-of-africa-1.jpg


35k-20k BC:
2-upper-palaeolithic-1.jpg


and 20k-10k BC:
3-epipalaeolithic-1.jpg


So even that far back, there was definitely mixing going on. But some races managed to stay relatively isolated for long stretches of time. For example, the Western European Hunter Gatherers were isolated from around 37k-14k years ago (i.e., right up to the pre-YD warming period - roughly map 2 above). And the Ancient North Siberians were isolated from around 38k-20k, at which point some Ancient East Asians moved up and mixed with them, creating the Ancient Paleo Siberians (again, map 2 - later mixing is shown in map 3). If you look in map 3 you'll see CHG, which stands for Caucasus Hunter Gatherers, which contributed to Yamnaya genetics.

The Yamnaya culture is relatively young, forming approximately 3000 BC, and itself had ancestry from different groups. Reich's team concludes that from 5000 to 3000 BC, Iranians and Armenians moved up north to mix with the existing Steppe population there to form Yamnaya. (They also conclude that the Iranians moved into Anatolia too.) As for the Steppe peoples, their ancestry seems to be primarily from Eastern European Hunter Gatherers, whose ancestors were primarily Ancient North Eurasians.

So if we're looking for a group further back in time to identify with the Kantekkians, right now I'd bet on the Ancient North Eurasians:

Groups derived from the Ancient North Eurasians
Eastern European Hunter-Gatherer (EHG) is a lineage derived predominantly (75%) from ANE.[2] It is represented by two individuals from Karelia, one of Y-haplogroup R1a-M417, dated c. 8.4 kya, the other of Y-haplogroup J, dated c. 7.2 kya; and one individual from Samara, of Y-haplogroup R1b-P297, dated c. 7.6 kya. This lineage is closely related to the ANE sample from Afontova Gora, dated c. 18 kya. After the end of the Last Glacial Maximum, the WHG and EHG lineages merged in Eastern Europe, accounting for early presence of ANE-derived ancestry in Mesolithic Europe.[7] An Afontova Gora 3 female individual dated to c. 14.7 kya, is the earliest known individual with the derived allele of KITLG responsible for blond hair in modern Europeans, and is recorded in Mesolithic Eastern Europe as associated with the EHG lineage.[7]

Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer (CHG) is represented by the Satsurblia individual dated ~13 kya (from the Satsurblia cave in Georgia), and carried 36% ANE-derived admixture.[8] While the rest of their ancestry is derived from the Dzudzuana cave individual dated ~26 kya, which lacked ANE-admixture,[8] Dzudzuana affinity in the Caucasus decreased with the arrival of ANE at ~13 kya Satsurblia.[8]

Iran Neolithic (Iran_N) individuals dated ~8.5 kya carried 50% ANE-derived admixture and 50% Dzudzuana-related admixture,[8] marking them as different from other Near-Eastern and Anatolian Neolithics who didn't have ANE admixture.[8] Iran Neolithics were later replaced by Iran Chalcolithics, who were a mixture of Iran Neolithic and Near Eastern Levant Neolithic.[2]
Ancient North Eurasian - Wikipedia

Those just happen to be all of the Yamnaya's ancestors!

And check out the Iran_N note: 8.5 kya, which is 6500 BC, Settegast's date for Zarathustra.
 
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