The Forgotten Exodus: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution

Approaching Infinity

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A few more connections, utilizing what shijing collected back in the Kantek thread:

The Kantekkians arrived in the Caucasus "and regions surrounding". Where'd they go next, after that? In reference to Kantek, the Cs said "We have close affiliation with the 'Northern Peoples.'" Then they said the Kantekkians "took over the northern section" of Atlantis, which sounds like northern Eurasia to me. Then, after the destruction of Atlantis (Younger Dryas impact), they moved around:

Q: When the philologists track the language roots, they arrive at the Kurgan region, north and west of the Caucasus. Is that where the Celts went when Atlantis was destroyed?
A: Close.

Makes sense. The Kantekkians didn't immediately and exclusively go to the Caucasus after 12.8 kya. It took several thousand years before the Yamnaya got established there, and they'd moved around a bunch since then (Eastern Europe, Siberia, Iran). But it's from there that they spread Indo-European.

According to the Cs, the Kantekkians were the last race to be seeded on earth. I think this implies that genetics is probably a decent way to study the history of humanity back in time until 40-80kya. (Didn't the Cs say something about scientific dating being off by something of a factor of two? Not sure if that applies here or not, but it would make sense. So when the Cs say 80kya for Kantek, that might translate to 40kya according to the scientists' current dating, which matches Witzel's date for Laurasian.) That means we can't put too much trust into the cladistic trees generated for time before that, since the different races didn't necessarily flow from one to the other. So if you look at map 1, the different races labeled might not flow from common descent, but be unique 'seedings', e.g. Neanderthal, Denisovan, African, European, Siberian, East Asian, Australian (maybe more, maybe fewer).

Also, I found it cool how close the Cs were to the current date accepted for the YD impact. Cs said 12656 years ago. Researchers say a 21-year period from 12836 to 12815. So either they or the Cs are only 159 to 180 years off!
 

Chu

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I started on but then stopped Who We Are and How We Got Here by David Reich. I was wondering what's the point, when darwinian common descent is not true and the creators placed people in different locations.

I wouldn't look at that book in that way because Reich brings forward a lot of DNA data that actually supports Behe, though Reich doesn't fully realize it. It also shows that groups of humans do, indeed, form something like "breeds", as in the way we describe breeds of dogs, or "races", in French.

I finished reading it recently, and thought it was excellent. I wasn't expecting much after all we've learned about Darwinism, and I was looking for references to the origins of the Indo-European languages more than anything (unfortunately, he hardly goes into any details about that!), but I kept reading because it was fascinating. Yes, in spite of sharing so much about about admixture and how modern humans interbred with Neanderthals and others, he never asks how that was even possible if it was all a matter or "evolution". But it's okay, really, because the data speaks for itself. Even if he seems to believe in evolution and is big on the power of "natural selection", the data he provides is great.

The parts about castes are fascinating, and you can extrapolate it to all kinds of groups, not just Indians and Jews. It was also interesting to infer that some of the "mixing" could be related to the Kantekkians' arrival, perhaps. And to see that it requires a lot of mental gymnastics to figure out all the comings and goings, to and from each region or continent, in order to make sense of the DNA samples that scientists gather. We are so lucky to have more information and possible explanations than a linear one!

I think it's a great introduction to this topic for those who don't know much about it, and Reich seems quite open-minded and humble. He did a great job being "nice" to libtard colleagues and groups who claim that his type of work is "racist", while still explaining that knowledge is valuable and that emotions should be set aside on the matter. OSIT.
 

Inquorate

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Some new info on the matter,


"About 100,000 years ago, tall, long-limbed humans lived in the caves of Qafzeh, east of Nazareth, and Skhul, on Israel’s Mount Carmel. Their remains suggest a surprisingly sophisticated people defying the conventional timeline of Homo sapiens’ migration out of Africa."
 

rrraven

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I have had some tabs open for a while and I better post them before I lose them
this page has some great ideas concerning the demise of the Neanderthals
Hubbard et al. (2016) showed that the AhR variant in modern humans contains Val381 residue in the ligand‐binding domain, while the AhR of Neanderthals, and a Denisovan individual, as well as nonhuman primates and other vertebrates (rodents) encode the ancestral Ala381 variant. The Val381 variant is fixed in the genome of all modern humans as well as in the genome of the oldest (45 ka) AMH individual sequenced to date (Fu et al., 2014). Hubbard et al. (2016) suggested that the unique modification of AhR in AMHs led to significant competitive advantage over their Neanderthal neighbors, due to decreased sensitivity in AMHs to toxins associated with fire‐smoke, the effects of which may have been exacerbated by troglodytic lifestyles.
so we could handle the smoky caves better than they could and we may also expose them to more UVB radiation being outdoors while we had the caves
Response to environmental change such as UVR flux at Earth's surface would have involved the AhR, a chemosensor that regulates immunity and differs in AMHs versus Neanderthals and other primates (Hubbard et al., 2016). Ages for the end of the Mousterian tool industry and Neanderthal demise (Higham et al., 2014) are now tightly constrained to the Laschamp magnetic excursion (at 41 ka) implying a role for high UVR levels during the Laschamp field intensity minimum

since we are in the beginning of the next magnetic excursion maybe 30 or so generations from now we have changed (I avoid the term evolved) thru mutations into the new and improved? model ?

this site is nice too but does not take into account expanding earth theory Ancient Earth
sorry first site says error cookies turned off in preview
 

Artem Tyomodachi

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Africans carry surprising amount of Neanderthal DNA​

For 10 years, geneticists have told the story of how Neanderthals—or at least their DNA sequences—live on in today’s Europeans, Asians, and their descendants. Not so in Africans, the story goes, because modern humans and our extinct cousins interbred only outside of Africa. A new study overturns that notion, revealing an unexpectedly large amount of Neanderthal ancestry in modern populations across Africa. It suggests much of that DNA came from Europeans migrating back into Africa over the past 20,000 years.

“That gene flow with Neanderthals exists in all modern humans, inside and outside of Africa, is a novel and elegant finding,” says anthropologist Michael Petraglia of the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History. The work, reported in this week’s issue of Cell, could also help clear up a mysterious disparity: why East Asians appear to have more Neanderthal ancestry than Europeans.

As members of Homo sapiens spread from Africa into Eurasia some 70,000 years ago, they met and mingled with Neanderthals. Researchers knew that later back-migrations of Europeans had introduced a bit of Neanderthal DNA into African populations, but previous work suggested it was a just a smidgen. In contrast, modern Europeans and East Asians apparently inherited about 2% of their DNA from Neanderthals.

Previous efforts simply assumed that Africans largely lacked Neanderthal DNA. To get more reliable numbers, Princeton University evolutionary biologist Joshua Akey compared the genome of a Neanderthal from Russia’s Altai region in Siberia, sequenced in 2013, to 2504 modern genomes uploaded to the 1000 Genomes Project, a catalog of genomes from around the world that includes five African subpopulations. The researchers then calculated the probability that each stretch of DNA was inherited from a Neanderthal ancestor.

The researchers found that African individuals on average had significantly more Neanderthal DNA than previously thought—about 17 megabases (Mb) worth, or 0.3% of their genome. They also found signs that a handful of Neanderthal genes may have been selected for after they entered Africans’ genomes, including genes that boost immune function and protect against ultraviolet radiation.


The results jibe with as-yet-unpublished work by Sarah Tishkoff, an evolutionary geneticist at the University of Pennsylvania. She told Science she has also found higher-than-expected levels of apparent Neanderthal DNA in Africans.

The best fit model for where Africans got all this Neanderthal DNA suggests about half of it came when Europeans—who had Neanderthal DNA from previous matings—migrated back to Africa in the past 20,000 years. The model suggests the rest of the DNA shared by Africans and the Altai Neanderthal might not be Neanderthal at all: Instead, it may be DNA from early modern humans that was simply retained in both Africans and Eurasians—and was picked up by Neanderthals, perhaps when moderns made a failed migration from Africa to the Middle East more than 100,000 years ago.

Akey’s study might help explain another “head scratcher,” says computer biologist Kelley Harris of the University of Washington, Seattle. Studies had suggested East Asians have 20% more Neanderthal DNA than Europeans, she notes. “Europe is where Neanderthal remains are found, so why wouldn’t Europeans have more Neanderthal ancestry than any other group?”

By suggesting that Europeans introduced Neanderthal sequences into Africa, the new study points to an explanation: Researchers previously assumed that Neanderthal sequences shared by Europeans and Africans were modern and subtracted them out. After correcting for that bias, the new study found similar amounts of Neanderthal DNA in Europeans and Asians—51 and 55 Mb, respectively. It’s a “convincing and elegant” explanation, Harris says.

And another study is an attempt to recreate the color of the skin and eyes of Neanderthals and Denisovans from the genome. I will give only the results
1604478847515.png

I think it resonates enough with the words Cs

24 sep 95
Q: (L) Okay, if it started with the Nordic types, and that is
where the other humanoid combinations came from, what
genetic combinations were used for human beings? Black
people, for instance, since they are so unlike "Nordics?"
A: The Nordic genes were mixed with the gene pool already
available on Earth, known as Neanderthal.
20 oct 94
Q: What is the origin of the Nubians?
A: Caucus range.
Q: How come they are so terribly black?
A: Genetic mixing.
Q: With what? Anything particularly special about them?
A: East Indian aborigines.

It is possible that the early Negroid groups (Bushmen) who left Australia mixed with Asians, but had minimal contact with Neaderthals / Denisovans, and the subraces of Central and North Africa already had more of these mixtures, plus the Kantekians.
 

Ellipse

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I just stumbled upon a documentary, released only 2 months ago, called Neandertal, the Mystery of the Bruniquel Cave. It's about the discovery and investigation of a Neanderthal circular 'structure' made entirely of stalagmites found inside a cave in France, which was explored for the first time in the 1990's.

According to wiki, the evidence points to the structure being about 176,000 years ago. Its complexity and its depth within the cave - which would have necessitated the use of fire for illumination - is apparently a first and points to Neanderthals being much more complex socially and perhaps possessing a more sophisticated intelligence than once assumed.

The discovery was published in 2016, and the documentary below follows researchers over a period of 4 years. Since the discovery, i think there has been a lot more evidence that Neanderthals are far from what was presumed - they made 'jewellery', mated with Denisovans and humans, ate meat, and so on - but i imagine it will be fascinating to watch the process all the same. I haven't watched the documentary yet but i plan to.

It's available to watch for free on Vimeo and is posted below.

First, what wiki has to say about the cave:




The documentary:



SOTT article about the structure:

The documentary is no more accessible.

There is this excellent one in French :


-176.500 they were able to manage fire by creating subtle torchs made of bone, grease, moss to illuminate the cave and then do some work. And they did this 300 meters (1000 ft) away from the entrance. It requires a good technique.
 

Keit

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Weidenreich points out that blood types are distributed through all races, though there is some concentration here or there, and this is evidence of long term mixing. He also points out that all the "constitutional" types (the four temperaments) can be found in all racial groups, another bit of evidence for mixing from earliest times.

I stumbled upon the following interesting chart.

photo_2021-02-11_03-06-58.jpg
 

Keit

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I wonder why they left out Norway, Sweden, Finland, the Netherlands, etc.?

Well, in the chart it says that it includes only countries with population of more than 20 million, so there are many other countries that weren't included.

Here's a link that has the countries you mentioned:

 

Nienna

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Well, in the chart it says that it includes only countries with population of more than 20 million, so there are many other countries that weren't included.

Here's a link that has the countries you mentioned:

Ah, thank you. I didn't see that, obviously.
 

Approaching Infinity

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So it is again looking like Yamnaya is the place!

And this about who the Yamnaya were genetically:

Yamnaya culture - Wikipedia

The Caucasian Hunter Gatherers are interesting:


Etc.

It really helps to read "Plato, Prehistorian" to get a grip on what might actually have been going on. And then, follow that up with "When Zarathustra Spoke".
David Anthony, author of "The Horse, the Wheel, and Language", gave a short lecture recently on the latest research on the Yamnaya, CHG, etc. Interesting stuff!


And a short answer to a related question:
 
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Inquorate

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Looks like I could have posted the above in response to Laura's post here.. not a new idea.

 

Laura

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Ancient remains found in Indonesia belong to a vanished human lineage​


By Laura Geggel 1 day ago
The 7,200-year-old burial was found in a cave.





The skull and jaw of the ancient Toalean woman found in a cave in South Sulawesi, Indonesia.

The skull and jaw of the ancient Toalean woman, whose remains were found in a cave in South Sulawesi, Indonesia. (Image credit: Hasanuddin University)
A woman buried 7,200 years ago in what is now Indonesia belonged to a previously unknown human lineage that doesn't exist anymore, a new genetic analysis reveals.

The ancient woman's genome also revealed that she is a distant relative of present-day Aboriginal Australians and Melanesians, or the Indigenous people on the islands of New Guinea and the western Pacific whose ancestors were the first humans to reach Oceania, the researchers found.
Like the Aboriginal Australians and New Guineans, the woman had a significant proportion of DNA from an archaic human species known as the Denisovans, the researchers found. That's in sharp contrast with other ancient hunter-gatherers from Southeast Asia, such as in Laos and Malaysia, who do not have much Denisovan ancestry, said study co-leader Cosimo Posth, a professor at the Senckenberg Centre for Human Evolution and Palaeoenvironment at the University of Tübingen in Germany.

These genetic discoveries suggest that Indonesia and the surrounding islands, an area known as Wallacea, was "indeed the meeting point for the major admixture [mating] event between Denisovans and modern humans on their initial journey to Oceania," Posth told Live Science in an email.

Researchers have long been interested in Wallacea. It's estimated that ancient humans traveled through Wallacea at least 50,000 years ago (possibly even before 65,000 years ago) before they reached Australia and its surrounding islands.


This map shows Wallacea, which includes parts of Southeast Asia, with an insert image of South Sulawesi.



This map shows Wallacea, which includes parts of Southeast Asia, with an insert image of the province of South Sulawesi. (Image credit: Kim Newman)
Researchers found the mysterious woman's burial in Leang Panninge cave on the Indonesian island of Sulawesi in 2015. "This was an exciting discovery, as it was the first time a relatively complete set of human skeletal remains had been found in association with artifacts of the 'Toalean' culture, enigmatic hunter-gatherers who inhabited the southwestern peninsula of Sulawesi between around 8,000 to 1,500 years ago," study co-lead researcher Adam Brumm, a professor of archaeology at Griffith University in Australia, told Live Science in an email.

Image 1 of 10
The entrance to Leang Panninge cave in South Sulawesi.

The entrance to Leang Panninge cave in South Sulawesi. (Image credit: Leang Panninge research team)
The fragmented remains of the Toalean woman's head

The fragmented remains of the Toalean woman's head (Image credit: Hasanuddin University)
The ancient Toalean woman's pelvis

The ancient Toalean woman's pelvis (Image credit: Hasanuddin University)
The ancient woman had been placed in a flexed position for her burial.

The ancient woman had been placed in a flexed position for her burial. (Image credit: Hasanuddin University)
Excavations at Leang Panninge cave in South Sulawesi, Indonesia

Excavations at Leang Panninge cave in South Sulawesi, Indonesia (Image credit: Leang Panninge research team)
Researchers excavate the 7,200-year-old burial at Leang Panninge cave.

Researchers excavate the 7,200-year-old burial at Leang Panninge cave. (Image credit: Leang Panninge research team)
Toalean stone arrowheads

Toalean stone arrowheads (Image credit: Basran Burhan)
Toalean stone arrowheads with pressure-flaked serrations.

Toalean stone arrowheads with pressure-flaked serrations (Image credit: Yinika L Perston)
A stone arrowhead from the ancient Toalean culture.

A stone arrowhead from the ancient Toalean culture (Image credit: Shahna Britton and Andrew Thomson)
A digital 3D model of the ancient Toalean woman's burial discovered in Sulawesi.

A digital 3D model of the ancient Toalean woman's burial discovered in Sulawesi. (Image credit: David P. McGahan)
To learn more about this woman — who died at about age 18, an anatomical analysis revealed — the researchers studied her ancient DNA, which was still preserved in her inner ear bone. "This is a major technological achievement, as we all know ancient DNA does not preserve well in tropical regions," said Serena Tucci, an assistant professor of anthropology at Yale University and principal investigator of the Human Evolutionary Genomics lab there, who was not involved in the new study. "Only a few years ago we didn't even imagine this could be feasible."

The analysis marked the first time researchers have studied an ancient human genome in Wallacea, the researchers added.

The woman's genome showed that she was equally related to present-day Aboriginal Australians and Papuans, Posth said. "However, her particular lineage split off from these populations at an early point of time," Brumm noted.

Moreover, this woman's lineage doesn't appear to exist today, making it a "previously unknown divergent human lineage," the researchers wrote in the study. In other words, this ancient Toalean woman has a genome "that is unlike that of any modern people or groups that are known from the ancient past," Brumm said.

As such, the researchers found no evidence that the modern people of Sulawesi descend from the Toalean hunter-gatherers, at least based on the genome of this woman.

Perhaps this Toalean woman carried a local ancestry from ancient people who lived on Sulawesi before Australia and its surrounding islands were populated, the researchers said.

In all, the study is "very exciting and fascinating," Tucci told Live Science in an email.

"We are learning that there was a previously unknown population that migrated throughout this region, probably at about the same time as the ancestors of present day populations in Papua or Australia," she said. Even though this woman's lineage disappeared, "all these populations did coexist until relatively recently, which opens up to lots of questions about population interactions from a genetic but also from a cultural perspective," Tucci said.

The study was published online Wednesday (Aug. 25) in the journal Nature.

Originally published on Live Science.

 
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