Suicide

[djewlew]

What do you teach to prevent suicide?
[Thousands of unhappy/unfortunate human beings put an end to their lives every year - especially in Japan.]

 

[Erna]

We don't infringe on people's free will.

 

[djewlew]

We don't infringe on people's free will.

Where can I read the article you mentioned, since the Google ads are sitting write on top of part of the text? Very annoying. Can you send the article to my email address, perhaps?

 

[Jacques]

We don't infringe on people's free will.

Where can I read the article you mentioned, since the Google ads are sitting write on top of part of the text? Very annoying. Can you send the article to my email address, perhaps?

You will find the article below but can't you move or close the Google ads?

Free Will

The question of free will has many levels. At the level of the universe, we could say that the only reason why anything exists is free will. The creative will of the All mediates between the thought centers of being and non-being, creating a dance of all possible forms.

As the initial impulse of creative will descends from the unconditioned realms of creation towards materiality, it gets diluted, more mechanical and determined at each level.

Tradition, as transmitted by Gurdjieff and Mouravieff, even as reflected in the Bible, suggests that the logos or creative will of the Absolute is the impulse behind all which is. The Cassiopaeans and Ra define free will as the first universal principle.

Strict determinists are the only ones who completely deny free will.

The concept of free will becomes much more ambiguous when applied at the human level. We could postulate that anything with some degree of consciousness somehow retains some spark of the uncreated, primordial free will. If this were not so, we could not define concepts of responsibility, which after all are central to any ethics. For this reason, pretty much all religious systems recognize some degree of free will, no matter how they otherwise may tend to restrict this.

Gurdjieff's description of the default state of man is nearly behavioristic, involving next to no free will. Still, Gurdjieff's whole work strives towards opening a window through which this free will might manifest. In this sense, Gurdjieff is diametrically and fundamentally opposed to any deterministic school of thought.

The greatest problem for manifested free will at the human level is that man is not one: One I wills, another does not, a third is not even aware of the whole question.

In Life Is Only Real Then When I Am, Gurdjieff introduces the dictum 'I Am, I Can, I Wish.' From the book:

'Only such a man, when he consciously says "I am"-he really is; "I can"-he really can; "I wish"-he really wishes. When "I wish"-I feel with my whole being that I wish, and can wish. This does not mean that I want, that I need, that I like or, lastly, that I desire. No. "I wish." I never like, never want, I do not desire anything and I do not need anything-all this is slavery; if "I wish" something, I must like it, even if I do not like it. I can wish to like it, because "I can." I wish-I feel with my whole body that I wish. I wish-because I can wish.' [End quote]

Free will has nothing to do with desires, it is unconditioned, it is for its own sake, yet it is not arbitrary or random, it may have a direction which is a reason unto itself. The free will possible to man in this sense is far from the possibility of arbitrary indulgence which is often the only thing modern Western discourse understands with freedom.

 

[Gawan]

We don't infringe on people's free will.

Where can I read the article you mentioned, since the Google ads are sitting write on top of part of the text? Very annoying. Can you send the article to my email address, perhaps?

You will find the article below but can't you move or close the Google ads?

I think djewlew is referring to this here:

At the top of the site map is a link that says "Glossary" which does in fact take me to Cassiopedia. Once on this page, the graphics(which are great) as well as the Navigation, Search and Toolbox are blocking the text. When clicking on Adamic Man, for example, the result is still blocked, making it hard to read the page.

Is this just my experience? Is there something I'm not doing correctly?

What browser are you using and what is your font size setting? Do you have any browser plugins that could be causing this?

Can you please take a screenshot of this issue to illustrate?

[...]

emphasis mine

You can also use this link/site djewlew, when you have problems accessing "cassiopedia":

http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=333&lsel=F

fwiw

 

[realitybugll]

are they exactly the same?

this glossary http://www.cassiopedia.org/glossary (messed up glossary)

and this one http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?l=A (working 1!)

I have not been able to access it for a while because of the tool/search bar coverup. but I know QFS is busy I didn't say anything. is there a solution?


djeview,

about suicide

I don't know what FOTCM or QFS stance on preventing suicide.

I think the best preventative measure is addressing the root cause of suicide. which is emotional feeding or other things ? what I attempt to do here follow the fourth way - the Work - that should help me not victimize people and stops me from contributing to suicidal deaths. who knows how your actions are effecting others until you really start to exam them. On an individual bases there is a lot that can be done.

 

[Buddy]

Hi realitybugll. What browser do you use? Does it support Cascading Stylesheets and do you have javascript turned on?

I use the latest Firefox and don't have any problems with:

this glossary http://www.cassiopedia.org/glossary (messed up glossary)

are they exactly the same?

To me, they appear to have the same content.


At one time, I did have a problem with Safari though, but since I don't have Safari installed any more, I can't duplicate your problem. Maybe someone else could suggest something?

 

[Hesper]

I use the latest Firefox and don't have any problems

I also use Firefox and have no trouble viewing either pages.

Also, for what it's worth, I believe the large amount of suicides these days could just be another sign of the times. The gradual winding down expressed at our human level as an apparent lack of options for many individuals. It's sad.

 

[cholas]

Just wanted to add that I was using Explorer when I first encountered the toolbar blockage. I'm now using Firefox and have no problems viewing the pages in full.

And I agree with Hespen fully here. Suicide as well as other 'explosive' situations seem to be increasing at an alarming rate. Thus the emphasis here on the EE program.

 

[Vulcan59]

Hi realitybull,

this glossary http://www.cassiopedia.org/glossary (messed up glossary)

and this one http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?l=A (working 1!)

I have not been able to access it for a while because of the tool/search bar coverup. but I know QFS is busy I didn't say anything. is there a solution?

The page problems with Cassiopedia has been discussed before. It was down a few days ago but it's working for me at this end. I use Firefox so I don't have the style sheet problems that has been reported using other browsers. :)

 

[Clarekav]

Many people who do have suicidal feelings or plan to end their life tend to feel isolated from others particularly family and friends. The very people they don't want to let know that they have these feelings out of fear that family and friends would either brush it off or try to prevent the person from taking their life.
In respecting and understanding a person's free will to take their own life it allows for the person to feel relief that they have that option without interference and sometimes they might reach out and talk about
the emotions and issues surrounding wanting to die.
Although this tends to be harder for family and friends to accept especially when they see only their own pain they themselves would feel if the other person took their own life and not the suffering that person
is going through.

 

[dannybananny]

Although this tends to be harder for family and friends to accept especially when they see only their own pain they themselves would feel if the other person took their own life and not the suffering that person
is going through.

It's true but suicide isn't the way, it has it's consequences, and when you do it you start again where you left until you learn lesson, so it isn't really a wise and it won't solve problems. Suffering comes from within(from attachments, wishes, expectations, beliefs - so it's best place to observe it and not concentrate to much what your surrounding thinks and sees, and not concentrate what your programs tell you) and it can come from out like psychical pain but that i think isn't so often like emotional pain.It's best also to be happy with what you have and know that there are people that have less but are happier and then you ask yourself how so?
This clip is great reminder for that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc4HGQHgeFE

Suffering is life and you can choose if you're going to be victim or anything else you chose to be!

 

[Nienna]

Although this tends to be harder for family and friends to accept especially when they see only their own pain they themselves would feel if the other person took their own life and not the suffering that person
is going through.

It's true but suicide isn't the way, it has it's consequences, and when you do it you start again where you left until you learn lesson, so it isn't really a wise and it won't solve problems. Suffering comes from within(from attachments, wishes, expectations, beliefs - so it's best place to observe it and not concentrate to much what your surrounding thinks and sees, and not concentrate what your programs tell you) and it can come from out like psychical pain but that i think isn't so often like emotional pain.It's best also to be happy with what you have and know that there are people that have less but are happier and then you ask yourself how so?
This clip is great reminder for that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc4HGQHgeFE

Suffering is life and you can choose if you're going to be victim or anything else you chose to be!

That is a truly touching video dannybananny. But life isn't so simple that you can say because one is capable of overcoming such extreme odds and didn't take the route of suicide, that others should also be as strong and do likewise. Everybody is different and their tolerances to pain and suffering are different.

When you say, "suicide isn't the way, it has it's consequences, and when you do it you start again where you left until you learn lesson, so it isn't really a wise and it won't solve problems." What are the consequences other than having to learn lessons over again?

All of us have to come back to learn the lessons we did not learn, regardless of how we die according to my understand at this time. After all, all there is, is lessons.

Here are some things the Cs have said about suicide. They don't reject it nor condone it. It just is. I'm thinking that the Law of Three applies to this as it does to everything else; there is good and there is evil and there is the specific situation. Nothing is black and white.

Q: (L) What happens to people who commit suicide?
A: Varies according to circumstance.
Q: (L) In a general sense, is there some negative karma
involved in committing suicide?
A: There can be negative karma involved with many things.

Q: I have been having a dialogue with a fellow on the net in
the last week or so who is very well versed in the Ra
Material. He sent me a large chunk of volume 5 of the Ra
books, which was material that had not been released earlier.
It seems that during the times that Don Elkins was asking
some questions about different conspiracies and the nature of
the 4th density STS manipulations and some other rather grim
subjects, that there was some sort of judgment made by this
group, or members of this group, that such subjects were not
appropriate lines of questioning for an STO channel. They
were, apparently, considered to be a focusing on negative
aspects, therefore they were not of 'love and light.' Such
questions and directions of questions were, therefore,
discouraged or agreed by this group to be not desirable to
pursue. Don Elkins DID, however, commit suicide. Can you
tell us why?
A: Suicide is a chosen pathway for the purpose of close
realization of shutting off the noise.
Q: What noise did he want to shut off?
A: It is a figure of speech.
Q: I would like to understand. Here, these folks had this
marvelous contact with Ra...
A: Contact with Ra does not preclude the possibility of
attack.

Q: We received an email from some guy who says you guys
are 5th density STS, dark forces, and all that. According to
him, you are really leading us down the primrose path. It was
a very upsetting email because he said that everything Ra said
was absolutely the LAST WORD and you guys are chopped
liver, so to say. I shouldn't even ask about it...
A: No reason for upset.
Q: I know. But, he did suggest that Don Elkins committed
suicide because that was his pre- incarnative plan. Is suicide
possibly part of a plan made before incarnation?
A: It is one of many choices available.
Q: In Don's case, was it his plan to commit suicide at that
point, or did he commit suicide because he was under such
extreme attack?
A: Well, his suicide was his choice
Q: Was it his choice before he incarnated? Was it mapped
into this incarnation?
A: It is a choice open to all.
Q: (A) I would like to know what was his reasoning. How did
he justify this choice to himself?
A: It was an escape.
Q: An escape from what?
A: Displeasure.
Q: Displeasure from whom? Himself or others?
A: Many things.
Q: What did this displeasure relate to?
A: Not important!
Q: Did he feel this displeasure from Carla?
A: See previous response.
Q: What was important about what was in his mind?
A: When one feels displeasure, one sometimes chooses to
exit.

I think what needs to be realized is that you can have a person that is in such terrible, terrible pain, such as people who are in extreme pain due to illnesses such as cancer, that they no longer see a reason to stay in this suffering and would rather pass on. There can also be extreme psychological pain that would push someone into wanting to exit their life. Until you are in their shoes, how do you know that they should not have done this?

 

[Clarekav]

The video is touching and it is lovely to see hope in people. :)
It does show the other side of viewing life for him but this might not be the way of others, as Nienna Eluch says

I think what needs to be realized is that you can have a person that is in such terrible, terrible pain, such as people who are in extreme pain due to illnesses such as cancer, that they no longer see a reason to stay in this suffering and would rather pass on. There can also be extreme psychological pain that would push someone into wanting to exit their life. Until you are in their shoes, how do you know that they should not have done this?

When one is in such pain and/or is in a state of despair it takes a lot of effort to come out of it. Sometimes others don't have that energy or drive to do so, also one has to recognise what brought them into that
state in the first place. It can be a struggle and while their are people who do decide to continue to live others don't. It is up to the individual.
Perhaps accepting that (like many things) is difficult for our society especially one that is immersed in ideas of the religions that condemns suicide.

 

[Mona]

When one is in such pain and/or is in a state of despair it takes a lot of effort to come out of it. Sometimes others don't have that energy or drive to do so, also one has to recognise what brought them into that
state in the first place. It can be a struggle and while their are people who do decide to continue to live others don't. It is up to the individual.
Perhaps accepting that (like many things) is difficult for our society especially one that is immersed in ideas of the religions that condemns suicide.

Clarekav, I do agree with you that it is up to the individual if that individual chooses to end his/her life, although, just think about it. Most of us have been depressed at some point in our lives, but most choose not to commit suicide. I have been depressed in my life too many times to count, and the reason why I did not want to kill myself is because I do not want to cut short my life here right now when obviously I have not finished my lessons here in 3D. If I knew of someone who wanted to end it all for good, I would not hesitate to help them through their pain, because that pain is only temporary. And temporary pain is not a good reason to die for.