Strong female characters in movies

Keit

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FOTCM Member
I stumbled upon a good analysis of strong female characters in movies, and how recently feminism went totally overboard, making "strong females" not believable and utterly ridiculous. The analysis also points out key differences between strong female characters in the past, like Sarah Connor or Ellen Ripley, and what we have right now.

 

Jones

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FOTCM Member
Nice. The basic message that I get is that Sarah Conor and Ellyn Ripley needed to be strong because of circumstance, they didn't necessarily change their underlying femininity and they didn't need to insult, denigrate or belittle men in general to achieve or support that strength, even though their opponents might sometimes be men. Where as the strength portrayed by other some other female characters seems either unrealistic in it's application or pathological in it's attitude to men. That's a good message.
 

whitecoast

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Thanks for the video keit. Jonathan Pageau produced a video along similar lines earlier on, talking about how traditional masculine roles are archetypally being increasingly replaced by women.

 

Border Dog

Padawan Learner
I sort these things as derived from cultural marxism (subversion)
They try to change cultural values to put others on the same place.

So, when people accept weird (maybe insane) things to be valued from the society,
they are corrupted enough to accept anything requested by the mainstream power.

There are people nowadays who think a computer can decide what is best to do.
(its unbelievale) lol
 

loreta

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Very interesting!

One of my favorite feminine character is Gloria, in the movie "Gloria" directed by her husband, Cassavetes. There you have a very feminine woman but oh my, how valiant, courageous and sometimes, when necessary, acting like a man in a very hard men's world. But she is before hand feminine, motherly, tender and also, and that's the beauty of it, masculine, hard and fatherly. She is in balance with her Ying and Yang. That's a good character for me, the best feminine character that I ever saw in cinéma. In this short clip you can see how beautiful she is and how... oh well, you will see.

 

susy7

Jedi Master
I stumbled upon a good analysis of strong female characters in movies, and how recently feminism went totally overboard, making "strong females" not believable and utterly ridiculous. The analysis also points out key differences between strong female characters in the past, like Sarah Connor or Ellen Ripley, and what we have right now.

Sad times but it is part of the end of civilization, women have lost what was more sacred. And I myself am very matriarchal. They took the characters and the weapons of the men and that does not suit them at all
 

c.a.

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
This lady has Moxie!

The Occupant

A Russian drone operator encounters a UFO, then must decide what is real and not. Galkina is a drone operator sergeant on duty when she gets an alarm. As part of a secret military program hidden from the public, her work uses nuclear powered drones to lure alien objects into orbit, and then immobilizes and captures them. But when one such object is lured to earth and takes the bait -- and Galkina loses her connection to her commanding officer....
 

Alejo

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I actually had a conversation about this with a few friends a while back, the reason the stories in all these contemporary movies with an agenda don't work is because they're forcing the issue and making the story about the ideology and not about the story. In most of the movies that are passing nowadays as empowering to women, the point of the movie is to justify the narrative that seeks to "empower" women.

The stories aren't about the story, it's not something that happens to happen to a woman, it's not how does a character that happens to be a woman overcomes a challenge, and reaches a character arc. Nope, movies and tv series these days are about feminism and diversity and ideology, so they could be more accurately be described as propaganda than story telling.

That's why most people react badly against them, they're not attempting to convey a message of wisdom through a story, they're attempting to convince people that their ideology is correct. And that's not only boring and forgettable but also unreliable and invasive to people's psyche. They're so obsessed with it that they sacrifice the most basic principle of what constitutes a relatable and memorable story.

I'd venture a guess and say that most people resonate with a good story because they see themselves in them, they recognize their humanity in these stories, this humanity is not the unidimensional and empty character that is a "victim of patriarchy", it's the flawed humanity. But what these movies have given us recently is flawless characters, undeservingly strong, unafraid, overtly confident, and that's propaganda and it's boring. It's like if I tried to tell you a story about myself and said the following "So I am really strong because I am me, and so I tried to open up a jar of pickles, and I opened it.. the end" the message I would want to convey? I am strong.

Not only that but, the male bashing is ridiculous and transparently lazy. They reduce not only women to a single dimension of flawlessness, but also males to a caricature of a mean person.

And here's the thing, It does not have to be this way, you can have female stories that are conveyed in relatable ways that does not depreciate any character in the story. Strong woman does not need to mean weak men, on the contraire, some of the best movies I have watched contain a complimentary set of traits that match in male and female characters, and even if they stand in opposition, a respectable villain is a capable one.

I recently watched this video that somewhat illustrates my point in part:


If any of you has seen any of the work of Studio Ghibli, you'd notice that most of their most memorable protagonists are girls or women, but they're so memorable because they overcome their challenges without alienating their female features, without denigrating their male counterparts and because they had something to overcome, that they did so by either embracing their femininity and overcoming character flaws or fears or what have you. A strong woman isn't strong because she takes on male features, disposes of her females ones, and defeats and humiliates the men, but that's what passes for empowering these days.

The saddest part of it is that, despite having one of the most memorable female protagonist, Studio Ghibli's strong women would not pass the test of the feminist nowadays.
 

BHelmet

Jedi Council Member
Kudos on the Ghibli pick. Right on. Love them all and your analysis is spot on. They maintain their femininity and are strong at the same time. But they are cartoons. Hm.

And yes so many strong female roles are just clones of One dimensional emotionless male roles now.

and then there is that nagging issue of transgender males playing female characters that further confuses things. What IS a female character anymore these days?
 

Alejo

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FOTCM Member
Kudos on the Ghibli pick. Right on. Love them all and your analysis is spot on. They maintain their femininity and are strong at the same time. But they are cartoons. Hm

Well, before they are animated cartoons or a live human being in front of a camera... they’re all words on a piece of paper. And interestingly enough, the cartoon is far more relatable than some of the human beings they place in front of us these days.
 

Michael B-C

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My 15 year old (going on 28) daughter has spotted this increasing trend and it really gets her goat! In particular she is furious about the takeover of her favorite male characters by female alternatives as if a like-for-like swap was desirable let alone possible. In particular the idea that female character = strong = attitude = one note = false. She complains that all they do is play 'ideology' rather than believable given circumstance/nature. In fact she goes so far as to say she finds almost all contemporary female 'characters' eminently dis-likable and a complete turn off. Yes she likes them to be brave, self-aware and not over dependent but at the same time she longs for some reality where they do not self-identify as being in total control of their destiny as their male counterparts make fools of themselves leaving the heroine alone to save the day. So there's one target person the programming is not working on.
 

susy7

Jedi Master
Here is what I call goddess, those whom I venerate: Pallas Athena in the eyes of people, whose carriage follows hers, Aphrodite Ouranienne who embodies "Love" in the platonic sense, Hecate who is for the neo-Platonists the soul of the world, or the belt of heavenly fire. Not forgetting Demeter and her daughter Persephone, who returns to find her mother from Spring until Autumn, where she returns to Hades
 

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ryu

Jedi
I actually had a conversation about this with a few friends a while back, the reason the stories in all these contemporary movies with an agenda don't work is because they're forcing the issue and making the story about the ideology and not about the story. In most of the movies that are passing nowadays as empowering to women, the point of the movie is to justify the narrative that seeks to "empower" women.

The stories aren't about the story, it's not something that happens to happen to a woman, it's not how does a character that happens to be a woman overcomes a challenge, and reaches a character arc. Nope, movies and tv series these days are about feminism and diversity and ideology, so they could be more accurately be described as propaganda than story telling.

That's why most people react badly against them, they're not attempting to convey a message of wisdom through a story, they're attempting to convince people that their ideology is correct. And that's not only boring and forgettable but also unreliable and invasive to people's psyche. They're so obsessed with it that they sacrifice the most basic principle of what constitutes a relatable and memorable story.

I'd venture a guess and say that most people resonate with a good story because they see themselves in them, they recognize their humanity in these stories, this humanity is not the unidimensional and empty character that is a "victim of patriarchy", it's the flawed humanity. But what these movies have given us recently is flawless characters, undeservingly strong, unafraid, overtly confident, and that's propaganda and it's boring. It's like if I tried to tell you a story about myself and said the following "So I am really strong because I am me, and so I tried to open up a jar of pickles, and I opened it.. the end" the message I would want to convey? I am strong.

Not only that but, the male bashing is ridiculous and transparently lazy. They reduce not only women to a single dimension of flawlessness, but also males to a caricature of a mean person.

And here's the thing, It does not have to be this way, you can have female stories that are conveyed in relatable ways that does not depreciate any character in the story. Strong woman does not need to mean weak men, on the contraire, some of the best movies I have watched contain a complimentary set of traits that match in male and female characters, and even if they stand in opposition, a respectable villain is a capable one.

I recently watched this video that somewhat illustrates my point in part:


If any of you has seen any of the work of Studio Ghibli, you'd notice that most of their most memorable protagonists are girls or women, but they're so memorable because they overcome their challenges without alienating their female features, without denigrating their male counterparts and because they had something to overcome, that they did so by either embracing their femininity and overcoming character flaws or fears or what have you. A strong woman isn't strong because she takes on male features, disposes of her females ones, and defeats and humiliates the men, but that's what passes for empowering these days.

The saddest part of it is that, despite having one of the most memorable female protagonist, Studio Ghibli's strong women would not pass the test of the feminist nowadays.

I absolutly love the Ghibli movies ! Even if it's an anime, the characters are so much more relatable and nuanced than those in of the Hollywood/Disney variety.

Another good example of strong female characters (and males characters) is the anime "Avatar the last airbender". Its an anime that can be watched by both kids and adults because the themes are very serious although it is brought in a very subtle way (the first episodes deal with genocide).

You see characters struggling with survivor's guilt, hate, trauma, grief, but also learn about love, honor, friendship, mercy, forgiveness.

All female characters are well drawn, some got out of what society expected of them, but did so without rejecting their feminity. All of that in societies that are patriarcal. (Asian countries surch as China, Tibet and Japan where used as templates for the Avatar universe).

All in all, this show in a gem!

 

c.a.

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Deep State entertainment via Obama! Programing for and by the the Ultra Left. Who would ever thought of this spin.

Yesterday 7:45PM

The Matrix is regularly lauded as one of the most inventive and influential sci-fi films of all time. It put Lana and Lilly Wachowski on the map as filmmakers and remains so popular today, a fourth film is currently in the works.

But it’s actually so much more.

At its core, The Matrix is also the story of a person who realizes they’re trapped in a place where they can’t be themselves, escapes, and is reborn in a new world as their true self. And considering the film was written and directed by two trans women, it’s no surprise that Lilly Wachowski says telling a trans allegory was the intent of the film all along.

“I’m glad that it’s gotten out that that was the original intention,” she says in a video interview to promote the new documentary Disclosure. “The world wasn’t quite ready, at a corporate level...the corporate world wasn’t ready for it [at the time].”

Here’s the full clip, which also confirms the character of Switch was originally going to be a man in the real world and a woman in the Matrix, calling attention to these intentions. That didn’t end up making the final film.

It’s a great clip, particularly when Wachowski seems to address the way the film has kind of been accepted as this macho, sci-fi action movie, but lends itself to multiple readings.

Netflix

“When you make movies it’s this public art form,” she says. “I think any kind of art that you put out in the universe, there’s a letting-go process because it’s entering into public dialogue. I like that there’s an evolution process that we as human beings engage in art in a non-linear way. That we can always talk about something in new ways and in new light.”

Funny enough, though this interview clip is new, The Matrix is not currently available on Netflix. You can, however, watch Cloud Atlas and V for Vendetta, both of which the Wachowskis made, and have plenty of their own layers for you to unravel. And, of course, Wachowski discusses The Matrix and more in the new documentary about trans representation in Hollywood, Disclosure. That is on Netflix.

 
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