Session 14 October 2017

[luc]

I am at around section II of Collingwood's "Idea of History", although most of the time I find it difficult to obtain anything from it. Perhaps I need to go back and read it again from the start. Yesterday Jennifer asked me what I had learned from the book so far, and I was shocked by the fact that I couldn't even answer that question . It is truly dense, and I am doubtful that I will be able to see the value in the insight provided by Collingwood. So again, thanks to everyone who has simplified and explained some of the ideas in the various threads!

Well, hang in there, it will get more straight-forward towards the end. Also, part of the value in Collingwood's book is that he doesn't only describe his method/theory, he actually showcases it! You may want to keep that in mind while working through the book: even though you may ask yourself why the heck he goes into so much detail about the various philosophical schools of thought, the various ideas that were dominant during certain epocs and so on, there is much value in it. It's only through this laborious method that he comes to the understanding and conclusions that he does; and there are some real gems to get out from his journey there. One example I think is his discussion of enlightenment thinking and the corresponding ideas about (natural) science, that keep us hostage to the present day! I think this is extremely important to straighten out our present thinking and rid it from enlightenment dogma that seems so omni-present everywhere, including in so-called enemies of science (like creationists or postmodernists).

 

[Joe]

I have also found it difficult to come to terms with the possibility of G being totally unaware of the existence of hyperdimensional realities. The famous story about the "magician" seemed to apply very well in this context, and it made sense to me that this was G's way of explaining the concept of 4D STS to people in an understandable way.

Since G seems to have understood reality as only material, his description of the "magician" still made sense to him, but only in the context of a material universe. The forces at work in a material universe can still act on humans as per the analogy of the "magician". What G seems to have missed was the duality and the existence of STO. It's not necessary to become "immortal" in order to protect oneself from the predations of the material overlord "magician" and stand apart while still in a material universe, there is the whole other 'non material' side to existence, and it is between that material universe and those who worship it and see it as the be all and end all of existence, and the other 'side' of pure information and consciousness, that the 'battle' takes place.

So it seems G made a very good analysis of the material side of the universe and how it works and how humans are trapped into mechanicalness by it, he just missed the other 50%. Still, what he did was pretty remarkable given the times he lived in and the information available to him. I mean, describing fully half of existence is no mean feat. The reason we find him and his observations so useful is that in struggling against the lovers of pure materiality, it is very important to know as much about it as possible. In that respect, G's contributions are invaluable.

 

[Harmony99]

I must express sincere gratitude to Laura and her team for this session. It has started a mental revolution with regard to the great work of the master George Ivanovich. LIFE is all about lessons. We will benefit greatly from these additional information.
We should be careful not to be overly critical of G's works. He started the foundation for the C's to continue the construction. I believed there are still more twist and turn ahead.
All will be well!

 

[Deleted member 4320]

I would like to add my two cents and unfortunately, criticize G. a bit.

G. attitude was more or less that existence is mechanical. In fact, the idea of mechanicality, in my humble opinion, is coming of misinterpretation of the meaning of life and lead to suppressing the experiences that human can have. The conscious mind and body are something what go-between the earth existence of the human and spiritual part of himself with uncontrollable subconscious processes between they and it cannot be perceived as the error or pathology.

The subconscious mind is connected with the soul. Probably, the soul choice on the etheric level, how we can say, 5th Density, to live in the specific setting to give the opportunity for certain overload to the subconscious mind, so to speak, because of occurring experiences. It is inseparable with experiencing the various emotions, preferences, tend. Everybody should know them and give them the opportunity to be live in the self.

From the G. point, at least as I understand him, he endeavored to suppress one's emotions and subconscious processes. When more pragmatic is to keep the body in health and wellness and keep the body as the factor between daily existence in surrounding environment and subconscious mind connected to the more spiritual parts of being which would like to experience the existence in the choice environment.

And conscious mind instead suppresses the subconscious mind, should work as the knowledge gatherer and offer it to the subconscious mind to the extent subconscious is able to utilize. G. wanted to be master of the self, while is not about to mastering self in the form of the dominance over self, but rather lifetime is to give the expression of the soul through this material existence, experience the effects of it and leave the possibility of changing thanks to the intellectual parts of the human being when subconscious will be ready to accept new knowledge, ideas, spiritual knowledge and so on.

 

[Laura]

I must express sincere gratitude to Laura and her team for this session. It has started a mental revolution with regard to the great work of the master George Ivanovich. LIFE is all about lessons. We will benefit greatly from these additional information.
We should be careful not to be overly critical of G's works. He started the foundation for the C's to continue the construction. I believed there are still more twist and turn ahead.
All will be well!

Well, actually, G was NOT the foundation for the Cs. He was just one of many works I had read that provided some information and which I considered of higher quality that many other works; but I would not have begun the Cs' experiment if I had been satisfied with anything else. The Cs have more or less left hints here and there that G's system was lacking.

 

[Gawan]

Also from my side many thanks for sharing the session!

I think it is with many things here on the forum, that we cannot throw out the baby with the bathwater in Gurdjieffs case for example. And that we need to further navigate or as Martina put it to further puzzling together the mosaic. And who knows where we are in one year. In that respect I find it very interesting reading Collingwood, although when it is pretty hard and slow many times and to get some new views on things I didn't have before.

Q: (Artemis) That would explain why Castelsarrasin is getting crazier. People are driving very crazy lately. Being very aggressive.

(L) So even the region is experiencing this?

A: Yes

Q: (L) That's why I don't go anywhere. I'm staying home!

It most likely is a world wide phenomenon as far as I can see society as a whole and what is happening and as a traffic participant as well. With that everyone needs to be really careful imo.


And I really hope that your pets are getting better !

 

[Anthony]

Thanks for this session, it was fascinating especially with regard to G's interpretation of reality.

Throughout my time reading the work relating to Gurdjieff's ideas, there have been multiple occasions where I felt like I hit a brick-wall in trying to understand what was meant by the words on the page. For example, the table of hydrogens and law of octaves never really made much sense. Although I just assumed that I was not yet intelligent enough to be able to comprehend the meaning or significance of it all. There was always difficulty when attempting to reconcile G's cosmology with the one laid out by the C's (which seemed to resonate with me).

I have also found it difficult to come to terms with the possibility of G being totally unaware of the existence of hyperdimensional realities. The famous story about the "magician" seemed to apply very well in this context, and it made sense to me that this was G's way of explaining the concept of 4D STS to people in an understandable way. With all of this new information... it seems like this assumption must be discarded.

Coming to terms with the fact that even G did not have all of the answers, tearing him down from the imaginary pedestal I had erected in my mind, and starting afresh feels kinda strange. I am not quite sure how to describe how I feel about it all. It feels a little like I have lost a small part of myself, or a sacred cow. I am trying to steer away from black and white thinking.

As was said by many here, G's power of observation and extensive understanding of human psychology were his greatest contributions and have personally helped me a lot in trying to understand the state of the human condition. So it would be silly to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. But a question which bugs me is: where to go from this point onward?

I guess the answer to that question can be found somewhere from the extensive readings and recommendations by Laura, so thanks for that. I hope that working through these books can help provide clarity and some direction.

I am at around section II of Collingwood's "Idea of History", although most of the time I find it difficult to obtain anything from it. Perhaps I need to go back and read it again from the start. Yesterday Jennifer asked me what I had learned from the book so far, and I was shocked by the fact that I couldn't even answer that question . It is truly dense, and I am doubtful that I will be able to see the value in the insight provided by Collingwood. So again, thanks to everyone who has simplified and explained some of the ideas in the various threads!

That was also one of the things on my mind about the whole subject. There are hints throughout what the C's have said and in the recommended readings. For instance, in The Idea of History, Collingwood notes that there doesn't seem to be an end point to historical research and inquiry, which would mirror the statement that "all there is is lessons". So it seems to be a continuous process of learning, or mind getting to know itself.

 

[Julius]

thank you for all your work !! :D

 

[cazamara]

I've searched on forum for the results on "Thinking and Destiny" by Harold W. Percival and have found only one post posted by Bear on November 28th 2014, but there was not a single comment to his post. I don't know whether it has ever been further discussed on the Forum or not, nevertheless I find it worth reading. The very first time I had ran into it was three years ago and ever since it has become my constant companion. The knowledge that I had gained from the Cs and Laura has helped me a lot in understanding it, but as noted by the publisher of this book in its Preface:

" ...
As we read on, a page at a time, we discovered that Percival's unique system of conveying his knowledge called into use faculties long dormant within us and that our capacity to understand grew with each reading... In degree virtually unknown in ancient and modern literature, the author presents a remarkably complete exposition of the origin and development of the universe. He also indicates the source, purpose and ultimate destination of the human. The value of this information is inestimable as it not only provides a context in which to locate ourselves in the universal cosmology, but helps us to understand our fundamental purpose. This is significant because as our existence is made more comprehensible, the desire to transform our lives is also awakened.
Thinking and Destiny was not developed as speculation, nor to repeat and synthesize the ideas of others. It was written as a way for Percival to make known what he learned after being conscious of Ultimate Reality. As to the source and authority for the book, Percival clarifies this in one of his few remaining notes:
Quote
The question is: Are the statements in Thinking and Destiny given as revelation from Deity, or as the result of ecstatic states and visions, or have they been received while in trance, under control or other spiritistic influence, or have they been received and given as coming from some Master of Wisdom? To all of which, I answer emphatically ... No!
Then why and on what authority, do I say they are true? The authority is in the reader. He should judge as to the truth of the statements herein by the truth that is in him. The information is what I have been conscious of in my body, independently of anything I have heard or read, and of any instruction I have received from any source other than what is herein recorded.
End quote
Thinking and Destiny represents a towering accomplishment in revealing the true state and potential of the human being."
The World Foundation

In Author's Foreword the author is saying:
" ...
I do not presume to preach to anyone; I do not consider myself a preacher or a teacher. Were it not that I am responsible for the book, I would prefer that my personality be not named as its author. The greatness of the subject about which I offer information, relieves and frees me from self-conceit and forbids the plea of modesty. I dare make strange and startling statements to the conscious and immortal that is in every human body; and I take for granted that the individual will decide what he will or will not do with the information presented.
...
But it would be unreasonable to suppose that such matters could be, yet be unknown to others. There must be those who know but cannot tell. I am under no pledge of secrecy. I belong to no organization of any kind. I break no faith in telling what I have found by thinking while awake, not in sleep or in trance. I have never been nor do I ever wish to be in trance of any kind.
...
From November of 1892 I passed through astonishing and crucial experiences, following which in the spring of 1893, their occurred the most extraordinary event of my life,. I had crossed 14th St 4th Avenue, in New York City. Cars and people were hurrying by. While stepping up to the northeast corner curb stone, Light, greater than that of myriads of suns opened in the center of my head. In that instant or point, eternities were apprehended. There was no time. Distance and dimensions were not in evidence. Nature was composed of units. I was conscious of the units of nature and of units as Intelligence. Within and beyond, so to say, there were greater and lesser Lights; the greater pervading the lesser Lights; which revealed the different kinds of units. The Lights were not of nature; they were Lights as Intelligences, Conscious Lights. Compared with the brightness or lightness of those Lights, the surrounding sunlight was a dense fog. And in and through all Lights and units and objects I was conscious of the Presence of Consciousness. I was Conscious of Consciousness as the Ultimate and Absolute Reality, and conscious of the relation of things. I experienced no trills, emotions, or ecstasy. Words fail utterly to describe or explain CONSCIOUSNESS. It would be futile to attempt description of the sublime grandeur and power and order and relation in poise of what I was then conscious. Twice during the next fourteen years, for a long time on each occasion, I was conscious of Consciousness. But during that time I was conscious of no more than I had been conscious of in the first moment.
Being conscious of Consciousness is the set of related words I have chosen as a phrase and to speak of that most potent and remarkable moment of my life.
Consciousness is present in every unit. Therefore the presence of Consciousness makes every unit conscious as the function it performs in the degree in which it is conscious.
Being conscious of Consciousness reveals the "unknown" to the one who has been so conscious. Then it will be the duty of that one to make known of what he can of being conscious of Consciousness.
The great worth in being conscious of Consciousness is that enables one to know about any subject, by thinking. Thinking is the steady holding of the Conscious Light within on the subject of the thinking. Briefly stated, thinking is of four stages: selecting the subject; focusing the Light, and the focus of the Light. When the Light is focused, the subject is known. By this method, Thinking and Destiny has been written.
The special purpose of this book is: To tell the conscious selves in human bodies that we are inseparable doer parts of consciously immortal individual trinities, Triune Selves, who within and beyond time, lived with our great thinker and knower parts in perfect sexless bodies in the Realm of Permanence; that we, the conscious selves now in human bodies, failed in a crucial test, and thereby exiled ourselves from that Realm of Permanence into this temporal man and woman world of birth and death and re-existence; that we have no memory of this because we put ourselves into self-hypnotic sleep, to dream; that we will continue to dream through life, through death and back to life; that we must continue to do this until we de-hypnotize, wake ourselves out of hypnosis into which we put ourselves; that, however long it takes, we must awake from our dream, become conscious of ourselves as ourselves in our bodies, and then regenerate and restore our bodies to everlasting life in our home - The Realm of Permanence from which we came - which permeates this world of ours, but is not seen by mortal eyes. Then we will consciously take our places and continue our parts in the Eternal Order of Progression. The way to accomplish this is shown in chapters which follow."
H.W.P.
New York, March, 1946

This book of 1050 pages can be easily found online in complete pdf format, or purchased on Alibris site (there is USA site and the one located in London as well) which sells used books in a very good condition at reasonable price.

 

[Phill4]

I would like to add my two cents and unfortunately, criticize G. a bit.

G. attitude was more or less that existence is mechanical. In fact, the idea of mechanicality, in my humble opinion, is coming of misinterpretation of the meaning of life and lead to suppressing the experiences that human can have. The conscious mind and body are something what go-between the earth existence of the human and spiritual part of himself with uncontrollable subconscious processes between they and it cannot be perceived as the error or pathology.

The subconscious mind is connected with the soul. Probably, the soul choice on the etheric level, how we can say, 5th Density, to live in the specific setting to give the opportunity for certain overload to the subconscious mind, so to speak, because of occurring experiences. It is inseparable with experiencing the various emotions, preferences, tend. Everybody should know them and give them the opportunity to be live in the self.

From the G. point, at least as I understand him, he endeavored to suppress one's emotions and subconscious processes. When more pragmatic is to keep the body in health and wellness and keep the body as the factor between daily existence in surrounding environment and subconscious mind connected to the more spiritual parts of being which would like to experience the existence in the choice environment.

And conscious mind instead suppresses the subconscious mind, should work as the knowledge gatherer and offer it to the subconscious mind to the extent subconscious is able to utilize. G. wanted to be master of the self, while is not about to mastering self in the form of the dominance over self, but rather lifetime is to give the expression of the soul through this material existence, experience the effects of it and leave the possibility of changing thanks to the intellectual parts of the human being when subconscious will be ready to accept new knowledge, ideas, spiritual knowledge and so on.

There are mechanical systems in place, but what I think is that there are levels, and each level of expression or reality has rules, the body is a mechanical apparatus in the sense that follows certain rules, the problem is that G. did not integrate the mind as the mind, the mind exists at a different level and he was acting upon the assumption that the mind was still operating at the level of our mechanical aspect, that is how is see the problem.

I studied the table and I still can't find the integration of thinking, It explains the substances , but not the ongoing activity of the intellectual center which by that system would be considered thought, a thought going by the table would be the result of H48, and this is where I hit a wall, there are no references to the accumulation of this hydrogen and or composition of it, one thought needs other thoughts, needs to connect to everything it can, and this process is of a non-linear nature, the rules change, and rules of physicality don't apply Probably H48 was a certain limited set of signals , and these signals do not amount to a full independent thought is itself. (or so I think)
which makes me think that is the reason G was avoiding working with dreams, he probably thought that if our imagination was acting in nonlinear ways outside the parameters of the logic of matter as he understood it or ways that followed undirected activities it meant that it was no longer bound to the natural laws of physicality and it was energy rifting away.

If you are shot in a dream and then wake up in the dream not wounded, he probably thought that a bullet HAD to fatal and you cannot therefore wake up, meaning that the logic that applies to the real world is not acting upon the imagination which represent a folly, or so is my theory of his discouragement of dreams.
He was avoiding the non-linear aspect.

The entire sum of all mechanical functions create other functions, like the psyche and all psychic systems together create yet other functions, etc. the mind is independent in the sense that our human system can only handle the reference point of this reality, we can't remember outside of our bodyonly because we are not tuned to do it.
But what Collingwood is saying is that thoughts are completely independent from physicality which is utterly confusing in the sense that so far the logic I was applying to it was that we produce thought as a result of mechanical circumstances, but that is only the result of our 3D perception.
I think I understand what he is trying to say in the sense that thoughts have a specific quality and signature in the ether, a definite existence and potential to arrange information in different ways as a unit, rather than different signals scattered around forming something...
My two ents

 

[Zar]

I've searched on forum for the results on "Thinking and Destiny" by Harold W. Percival and have found only one post posted by Bear on November 28th 2014, but there was not a single comment to his post. I don't know whether it has ever been further discussed on the Forum or not, nevertheless I find it worth reading. The very first time I had ran into it was three years ago and ever since it has become my constant companion. The knowledge that I had gained from the Cs and Laura has helped me a lot in understanding it, but as noted by the publisher of this book in its

......

Why didn't you post this on that thread? you could have been that single comment you did not find. If no one made a comment then you can probably assume this book is not what it appears to be. Most of this seems like word salad to me. If you separate each sentence and break it down you will see that it has no substance. Take these ones for example;

Thinking is the steady holding of the Conscious Light within on the subject of the thinking. Briefly stated, thinking is of four stages: selecting the subject; focusing the Light, and the focus of the Light. When the Light is focused, the subject is known. By this method, Thinking and Destiny has been written.

From what I understand(and I might be dense) even unconscious people can think so I don't know what this guy is referring to by "thinking is the steady holding of the conscious light within". What is this conscious light? if it's not a steady hold does it not count as thinking? What if I happen to have butter fingers from eating too much bacon, do I not attempt to hold it? is there also unconscious light for unconscious people? does it come in colors? can you eat it like the bacon I had earlier?... but let's get serious if it is what the C's refer to as knowledge then there is no point in holding it within since it already exists within... it's like saying "when playing the ping pong, one must hold the racket with the hand and look with the eyes at the ball..."

Then you pick a subject and shine this light(which again is not defined so we can presume it's knowledge) on it and you know it ... So if I have knowledge of biology, from longs hours of research and networking, I take that knowledge and shine it on politics and I'm going to miraculously know politics? Well that's a neat trick, I'll have to teach that to my invisible dog.

In all honesty I understand the allure of such writings but this seems like cointelpro and should be avoided IMO.

Also how does reading Laura's material help you understand this? if anything you should be dissuaded once you realize the amount of disinformation and deception that exists in our bbm.

 

[Phill4]

I definitely think that children should not be exposed to things that are beyond their capacity to bear emotionally or to rationally process cognitively--which are the essence of trauma. So young boys taken to a gay pride parade might become confused about some things (e.g. appropriate public vs private behaviors which might set them up to be more easily exploited by pedophiles) but I don't think that it would derail their sexual orientation, which seems to be so hardwired by such an early age that it's proven impossible to change even with extreme therapies.

I don't know about that. With gender dysphoria all of a sudden on the rise where teenagers are one day waking up and believing themselves to be the opposite sex, or no gender at all, is very alarming and shows how susceptible human beings are to pernicious programming and manipulation of their sexual identity, which is safe to say more embedded in our hard-wiring and physiology than sexual orientation or preference. To add to it, the Gay Pride Movement seems to be the main vehicle to spread this sort of sexual hedonism "anything goes" kind of attitude where this pathological perception of sex is spreading, osit. And it is being pushed and has become very 'in your face' in today's media.

I'm not an expert but I think that sexual preferences of a partner shouldn't be affected by the normalization of gender dysphoria but what would be changed is the social interactions between the sexes. Who you are attracted to should not change but how you interact with people can since courtship and social interactions are learnt from the environment. So if the environment becomes warped in terms of sexual/social interaction then the learnt interactions of the next generation will act in accordance with their environment. Monkey see monkey do?

Sexual preference is "programmed" very early on and changing these programs is not a very simple thing to do. So I think what may change the social behaviour and sexual interactions of people is influenced by what becomes socially acceptable/normal, if everyone is romping with everyone else(let alone pedo/bestiality/rape replacing homosexuality/transsexuality in terms of variance from the norm) then the norm is to romp everyone. Homosexual/Transexual/Cissexual? acts wouldn't become such a big deal, especially when gender dysphoria blurs the "gender" lines in the post modernist mindsets. But then this is assuming that gender dysphoria will become normalized(which is the direction it's going sadly) and I'm not sure about the effect this normalization will have on different people; OP vs Souled. Or it may have an effect similar to what egalitarian societies have on gender expression, i.e. females became more feminine and vice versa.

Am I making sense?

If I'm understanding you correctly then what you're saying is the outward manifestation of sexuality will be based on society's dictates, so "anything goes" and it's good to experiment so therefore those that are young and impressionable will do it because it's what's almost expected of them but that kind of societal programming won't necessarily reach the deeper core of their inherent nature of who or what they are? Monkey see, monkey do like you said. If that is what you mean then it's similar to my thoughts on it. Although I might not have been clear in expressing that.

Yes that's right but there is more that I was trying to say, and I think I have beaten around the bush a little with my explanation. My comment was a response to the idea that "sexual identity is more embedded in our hard-wiring and physiology than sexual orientation", and you could be right, but I thought that sexual orientation occurs first from the interactions with the father/mother as the genes activate. I believe the C's gave a time frame for the activation of these genes that opens a window to "program" sexual orientation. Sexual identity occurs later when a child is more developed(probably generalizing here as it is more complicated than that). Mind you there is the concept of neuroplasticity, types of souls, level of soul development, etc., that play a part so I'm not confident to make any statements on what is more hardwired. That being said I don't think the issue is of whether one is more hardwired that the other but of what they do to the person.

The PTB are in the business of creating chaos, and one way is to pin peoples minds against their selves. Sexual orientation and sexual identity are closely linked, I think, so what better way to create outward chaos than to increase the chaos inside people's minds through doublethink/cognitive dissonance. And if that's the case you can imagine what would happen when these people are indoctrinated by a post modernism mindset. Let alone all the chemicals, drugs, toxins, ect. that we encounter. This early internal conflict may even be priming people to more easily accept ideologies like post modernism.

My two cents.

I agree with you. Today the LGBT propaganda is even enforced in kindergarden, when children are still in imprinting phase.

Even if this propaganda does not definitely transform heterosexuals into homosexuals (that remains to be proved), let's be aware of how much damage this can do to the next generations. How many, pushed by the ambient pro-LGBT atmosphere, will have sexual activities that they might bitterly regret later? How many will go through painful sex change surgery only to realize later that it's not what they really wanted? How many will blindly embrace some hormone therapy that will mess up their whole body and mind?

In any case, I think that the crux of the matter is not about switching kids to homosexuality but to normalize pedophilia. That's the real motivation beyond the increasing exposure of kids to sexuality (done in the name of education), and the enforcement of acceptance of a broad range of sexualities (done in the name of freedom). The former hypersexualizes kids while the latter makes any kind of sexual interaction acceptable.

When you combine the two then the normalization of pedophilia follows naturally and it will be proclaimed in the name of progress that brings the freedom and emancipation of children.

I keep thinking that the reason why this propaganda is so toxic is the amplification methods of the media through easy access to cellphones and lack of real world real time parenting and learning on this generation, like a generation syndrome creating sort of a hypermalleable consciousness of weakened individuals.

I still have sort of a hard time with the idea that mere conditioning can adjust behavior to the extend of affecting the hardwired systems, I mean hardwired means to me that there is a biological/neurological reaction of the reproductive systems when encountering a person of the same sex, I mean a person needs to be messed with at that level of effect a fundamental change, I think hormones being easily accessible can make this happen.
Say if kids are playing around with hormones instead of weed as the new ultimate form of fun and social acceptance, that is the only thing that would fit in my mind as the factor that makes people suceptible to this. the promise that you can change your gender back and forth , it is reversible and "normal", that is how the idea is being sold, and obviously they have no idea what they are getting into and how that affects their brain chemestry and therefore their behavior.

I had the example of gay people growing in the 90's, under bombardment of what would be perceived as straight propaganda, and for straights as normal. A person who is constantly bombarded with straight propaganda can change their behavior to an extend but I don't think they can be made to like or to have natural biological reactions when in front of a woman.. many people grew in that culture and remainded gay the same, so for straight people to become gay, in and of itself is difficult unless there is another factor at play.

Part of it all, is that I think they are giving these trans stories such a huge propaganda, that people think this is THE reality when it really applies to a few, for instance, a youtuber goes trans and everyone makes so much noise people think that is all that's happening, I keep on hearing these stories of "out of the blue transgenders" and noticed that it affects middle , upper middle class individuals mostly, to put it not so Orthodox, millennials of the highest caliber, people who have absolutely no worries at all but their daydreaming. People who fall apart for nothing.

Not to be insulting but to point out that they are weak because the conditions of their lives have made them so that no real pain ever reaches them, I imagine they suffer because they are prevented the experiences necessary to be strong people, and have a defined personality. Parenting in the nanniest of the nanniest or the opposite extreme of abuse and trauma. A neglected society in the middle of this chaos.

I think the bolded part is what the plan is, here are some of the people that come to mind as perfect vehicle for it after a quick google search:

_http://naijapicks.com/posts/1416/his-mom-was-judged-for-doing-this-but-this-is-what-her-son-wanted
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_zXi57RcSs
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0khD17Qo7k

they claim that they want to do make up (like Ariana Grande claiming to "express her sexuality") but what they really want is attention fame and money and WHERE ARE THEIR PARENTS?! I ask....

 

[Laura]

I've searched on forum for the results on "Thinking and Destiny" by Harold W. Percival and have found only one post posted by Bear on November 28th 2014, but there was not a single comment to his post. I don't know whether it has ever been further discussed on the Forum or not, nevertheless I find it worth reading. The very first time I had ran into it was three years ago and ever since it has become my constant companion. The knowledge that I had gained from the Cs and Laura has helped me a lot in understanding it, but as noted by the publisher of this book in its

......

Why didn't you post this on that thread? you could have been that single comment you did not find.

I agree.

Also, any Gurdjieff discussion should go in this thread:
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,44650.0.html

Perhaps the mods can sort it out?

 

[Laura]

I still have sort of a hard time with the idea that mere conditioning can adjust behavior to the extend of affecting the hardwired systems, I mean hardwired means to me that there is a biological/neurological reaction of the reproductive systems when encountering a person of the same sex, I mean a person needs to be messed with at that level of effect a fundamental change, I think hormones being easily accessible can make this happen.

Everyone needs to read Adrian Raine's book "The Anatomy of Violence". It's about much more than just that. Indeed, conditioning and external environment CAN CHANGE THE HARDWARE!!!

 

[Hindsight Man]

I still have sort of a hard time with the idea that mere conditioning can adjust behavior to the extend of affecting the hardwired systems, I mean hardwired means to me that there is a biological/neurological reaction of the reproductive systems when encountering a person of the same sex, I mean a person needs to be messed with at that level of effect a fundamental change, I think hormones being easily accessible can make this happen.

Everyone needs to read Adrian Raine's book "The Anatomy of Violence". It's about much more than just that. Indeed, conditioning and external environment CAN CHANGE THE HARDWARE!!!

I'll buy the book as soon as I can.If you have the time,can you mention a snippet from the book where this is discussed?Because that's some heavy stuff.