satanism: a brief analysis
- Thread starter abstract
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Buddy
The Living Force
I just noticed this thread when EmeraldHope bumped it.
Fwiw, I think abstract did a fine job of identifying the kind of polarizing that creates "two sides of the same STS coin". It seems to occur when someone starts thinking that spirituality is everything that is not physical, carnal, and worldly and that Satanism (or evil) is everything that is not "Christlike" or spiritual. IOW, spirituality is equivalent to anti-evil and evil is equivalent to anti-spirituality. There is no awareness of context or of the Third Force or Law of Three as abstract's post points out, osit.
Of course, the position of the Fourth Way Work here is that there is evil, there is good, and there is the specific situation that determines which is which. I recently confused these ideas myself while working through some emotional issues.
Fwiw, I think abstract did a fine job of identifying the kind of polarizing that creates "two sides of the same STS coin". It seems to occur when someone starts thinking that spirituality is everything that is not physical, carnal, and worldly and that Satanism (or evil) is everything that is not "Christlike" or spiritual. IOW, spirituality is equivalent to anti-evil and evil is equivalent to anti-spirituality. There is no awareness of context or of the Third Force or Law of Three as abstract's post points out, osit.
Of course, the position of the Fourth Way Work here is that there is evil, there is good, and there is the specific situation that determines which is which. I recently confused these ideas myself while working through some emotional issues.
EmeraldHope
The Living Force
anart said:
Anart,
I have read most all of Laura's work. Your confusion on my post is all my fault as I did not do a very good job at all in clarifying my statement. What I meant by similarity was just that base esoteric principles were used, just as they are here. The STS occult path also focus on self knowledge and gaining control over theirselves and work with many of the same estoeric principles as a foundation. But, they then split off into a differnt focus which focuses on service to self and nothing being forbidden etc.
In all of the esoteric reading I've done over the years , because of this fact it can be very confusing. Many of the left hand path also use much of the gnostics work as a basis also for example. It takes a lot of reading and seperating to pick up the differences between the 2 factions if you are not careful. Many left hand groups also incorporate the grail legends etc. So these things were more what I mean rather than Laura's individual creative endevor with the C's.
These groups by and large do not believe in networking and coming to a colinear understanding is for sure not an objective.
What I find interesting though, if you look through the exoteric data some of them publish ( I have never done further than data on their websites ) you will see that many sts esoteric groups also have a huge disdain for psychopaths ( they call them differnt things - the order of nine angels call them magai I think, as an example)
EmeraldHope
The Living Force
anart said:
I was being a bit sarcastic Anart and it did not translate well. Apologies.
However, I do find this particular group a bit scarier than say The Temple Of Set becuse some of the ideas they express are - well sinister. If you read their website articles, their overall view of the " mundanes " is that they have the right to do whatever they want to them because they themselves are superior. I will also quote some material here as an example. So even if they dream they are magicians, if this mindet is the basis for their actions they are no less dangerous to unsuspecting people.
<snipped schizoidal rants from link above>
EmeraldHope
The Living Force
Also, I also find in interesting that the Order of Angles, for example uses something similar to the concept of the Council of Nine that Laura goes into detail on here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/stargate.htm
See their version here- -http://www.nineangles.info/nine-angles-texts-part1.pdf
and here- -http://www.nineangles.info/nine-angles-texts-part2.pdf
See their version here- -http://www.nineangles.info/nine-angles-texts-part1.pdf
and here- -http://www.nineangles.info/nine-angles-texts-part2.pdf
Buddy
The Living Force
I think I can see why psychopaths aren't explicitly identified in the Satanist's stuff. Judging by the written material in the posts above, there seem to be people involved who can see the conventional, or social reality of the 'mundanes' for the illusion that it is but they just overlay their own fantasy interpretation on the reality in order to justify their feeding and to attract like-minded others, including victims.
I am also curious if you've read the Wave and Adventure Series yet, and if your response to anart's question is a less ambiguous "yes"? It would be helpful if we had the same background understandings, osit.
I am also curious if you've read the Wave and Adventure Series yet, and if your response to anart's question is a less ambiguous "yes"? It would be helpful if we had the same background understandings, osit.
EmeraldHope
The Living Force
Bud- Yes I have read the wave and the adventure series. Twice actually. The first time in about 2002 and then again last year when I signed up here on the forum. I also have a copy of Laura's Secret History Of the World. I have read tons on the forum over the last few years, and many of the recommened books. I am very well studied in psychopathy.
Here is the example of where I think they were alluding to psychopaths:
Magians:
Magians are a specific type of human being - they are the natural exploiters of others, possessed of an instinctive type of human cunning and an avaricious personal nature. Over the past millennia they have developed a talent for manipulating other human beings, especially Western mundanes, by means of abstractions - such as usury and "freedom" and marxian/capitalist "social engineering/planning" - and by hoaxes/illusions, such as that of "democracy". The easily manipulated nature of Western mundanes, and the Magian talent for such things as usury and litigation/spiel, their ability to cunningly manipulate, and their underlying charlatanesque (and almost always cowardly nature), have given them wealth, power and influence.
A pertinent example of the charlatanesque type of Magian - who has gained influence among mundanes despite his plagiarism and total lack of originality - is LaVey.
Here is the example of where I think they were alluding to psychopaths:
Magians:
Magians are a specific type of human being - they are the natural exploiters of others, possessed of an instinctive type of human cunning and an avaricious personal nature. Over the past millennia they have developed a talent for manipulating other human beings, especially Western mundanes, by means of abstractions - such as usury and "freedom" and marxian/capitalist "social engineering/planning" - and by hoaxes/illusions, such as that of "democracy". The easily manipulated nature of Western mundanes, and the Magian talent for such things as usury and litigation/spiel, their ability to cunningly manipulate, and their underlying charlatanesque (and almost always cowardly nature), have given them wealth, power and influence.
A pertinent example of the charlatanesque type of Magian - who has gained influence among mundanes despite his plagiarism and total lack of originality - is LaVey.
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
EmeraldHope said:
To say that satanist 'studies' are similar to Fourth Way Esoteric work is similar to saying that a Chihuahua is similar to a Great Dane simply because they're both canines. In fact, that comparison isn't even valid since the entropic state of 'satanists' is diametrically opposed to Fourth Way Esoteric work, and Chihuahuas aren't diametrically opposed to Great Danes.
So, apologies for the awkward comparison, but my point is that it might help you to clarify your understanding of Fourth Way Esoteric work, so you can more easily understand why I say that the two are diametrically opposed - and as dissimilar as they can get. It is the spirit of the Work that defines it - and entropy and creativity are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Even if you state that since some of the concepts use the same phrasing or words, they must be similar, you have missed the point that they cannot be similar because they are 'made of different stuff'. The devils, as always, is in the details - and this devil is not the one a satanist would recognize. ;)
With all that said, it does appear that you have quite the interest in satansim. Has it been an intellectual curiosity?
EmeraldHope
The Living Force
Anart,
I agree with you 100%. It is I who am not communicating well at all I think. I read tons and tons and do not communicate a lot as a whole so please forgive me.
I am NOT saying they are the same type of study that lead in the same direction. If you got that from what I said I do apologize. I am pointing out that there are similarities at the baseline. I gave some examples. I also stated that beyond those baseline esoteic principles the paths took a sts direction. I never said or implied that they were a fourth way option. They are esoteric however. I thoought I was clear but perhaps I wasnt.
My research into Satanism actually comes from many different angles all having to do with my own personal life experiences. If you go through my posts you will find one recent post I made regarding the electronic harrassment of my aunt and cousin. There have been many high level government ops that have members tied to Satanism.
On a personal note that applies directly to me, when I was 18 months old my 4 1/2 year old sister was murdered in front of me by my father who had just returned from Viet Nam. This happened in Fort Bragg NC about the same time as the Jeffrey McDonald murders happened in Fort Bragg. MCdonald claimed satinists were responsible there. More info on that case here: http://www.themacdonaldcase.org/. My father had also been in Hell's Angels for a short time prior to marrying my mom.
In addition, there is connection between a base in Fort Bragg, mind control, and Michael Aquino of the Temple Of Set. There were many murders of women and children in FOrt Bragg around this time- The MacDonald case was the one that got sensationlized.
So you see understaning all of this has been very important to me as it has affected my own life tremendously
I agree with you 100%. It is I who am not communicating well at all I think. I read tons and tons and do not communicate a lot as a whole so please forgive me.
I am NOT saying they are the same type of study that lead in the same direction. If you got that from what I said I do apologize. I am pointing out that there are similarities at the baseline. I gave some examples. I also stated that beyond those baseline esoteic principles the paths took a sts direction. I never said or implied that they were a fourth way option. They are esoteric however. I thoought I was clear but perhaps I wasnt.
My research into Satanism actually comes from many different angles all having to do with my own personal life experiences. If you go through my posts you will find one recent post I made regarding the electronic harrassment of my aunt and cousin. There have been many high level government ops that have members tied to Satanism.
On a personal note that applies directly to me, when I was 18 months old my 4 1/2 year old sister was murdered in front of me by my father who had just returned from Viet Nam. This happened in Fort Bragg NC about the same time as the Jeffrey McDonald murders happened in Fort Bragg. MCdonald claimed satinists were responsible there. More info on that case here: http://www.themacdonaldcase.org/. My father had also been in Hell's Angels for a short time prior to marrying my mom.
In addition, there is connection between a base in Fort Bragg, mind control, and Michael Aquino of the Temple Of Set. There were many murders of women and children in FOrt Bragg around this time- The MacDonald case was the one that got sensationlized.
So you see understaning all of this has been very important to me as it has affected my own life tremendously
You know, EH, I went through all this crap years and years and years ago. If you haven't got the discernment to see the differences after reading the stuff you posted above juxtaposed against the work of Gurdjieff, Sufis, myself, then I just don't know what to tell you. I'm actually going to delete most of what you have quoted because, quite frankly, I don't want it in my space.
EmeraldHope
The Living Force
Laura, I DO see the difference. Thats is why I am here.I just added to the topic as it was something I knew something about and wanted to try to start participating here. If you feel it doesnt belong by all means delte it- but I cannot for the life of me understand why you think I think that this stuff is 4th way or good in any shape form or fashion. I most certainly do have the discernment.
I I love your work and all the authors mentioned.
truely do not know how I am coming accross so badly.
I I love your work and all the authors mentioned.
truely do not know how I am coming accross so badly.
EH, taking a quote of something evil, presenting it with clear analysis is one thing, just quoting long passages of material without commentary is not a good idea. Innocent people who do not yet have discernment can be easily entrained by that sort of thing and I, for one, do not wish to contribute to that sort of thing. Most of what you posted was what could be described as schizoidal material. Do a search here on the forum for schizoidal and schizoidia and you will find plenty to think about.
I am very sorry that you were exposed to this kind of horror and ugliness in our world. I had my own close brushes with such things and one thing I know is this: do not stare too long into the pit because something in there is staring back. Standing up for light to illuminate darkness is problematical enough, one doesn't want to grab the tiger by the tail.
I am very sorry that you were exposed to this kind of horror and ugliness in our world. I had my own close brushes with such things and one thing I know is this: do not stare too long into the pit because something in there is staring back. Standing up for light to illuminate darkness is problematical enough, one doesn't want to grab the tiger by the tail.
Steve M.
Jedi Master
A bit off topic (sort of).
Dark Imperium wrote:
This to me sounded like it came right out of a Zionist hand/play-book. Satanism sounds like it would go with the ideas and pathologies of Zionists (if it is not a direct re-worded excerpt). Not sure I'm saying it right but to my understanding, a few changes and wording and we have what is happening at this point:
And that culling of Goyim (currently Palestinians and Lebanese..) is a necessary act of Life.
I believe in one guide, Zionism (our God is better than yours),
And in our right to rule (by maiming and killing the innocent) mundanes.
----
Interesting points, especially in the context of what Cathryn said. I can clearly see the points you've made Anart but am also aware I have certain weaknesses that I believe are similar to what Cathryn described in her post. I can fall into Ponerisation easily, knowingly or not, sleep right into it or failingly flail against it.
Cathryn Wrote:
On the brighter said, it is good to (learn to) recognize there is more strength to be had/learned. Personal/Spiritual evolution - discernment does take time. Not sure I've taken any/many steps on the ladder, but there sure looks to be a lot of steps to climb ahead. :)
Edit: To my understanding Goyim refers to anyone who is not Jewish.
Dark Imperium wrote:
This to me sounded like it came right out of a Zionist hand/play-book. Satanism sounds like it would go with the ideas and pathologies of Zionists (if it is not a direct re-worded excerpt). Not sure I'm saying it right but to my understanding, a few changes and wording and we have what is happening at this point:
And that culling of Goyim (currently Palestinians and Lebanese..) is a necessary act of Life.
I believe in one guide, Zionism (our God is better than yours),
And in our right to rule (by maiming and killing the innocent) mundanes.
----
Interesting points, especially in the context of what Cathryn said. I can clearly see the points you've made Anart but am also aware I have certain weaknesses that I believe are similar to what Cathryn described in her post. I can fall into Ponerisation easily, knowingly or not, sleep right into it or failingly flail against it.
Cathryn Wrote:
On the brighter said, it is good to (learn to) recognize there is more strength to be had/learned. Personal/Spiritual evolution - discernment does take time. Not sure I've taken any/many steps on the ladder, but there sure looks to be a lot of steps to climb ahead. :)
Edit: To my understanding Goyim refers to anyone who is not Jewish.
EmeraldHope
The Living Force
Laura said:
Laura, the I only reason I quoted all of that was just as an example to answer Anart's question. I do understand shizoidia and I honestly did not think of that angle when I posted it. For that I am very sorry. I was just trying to back up what I was saying with an example.
I do not stare down these holes often or recently- like I said I was just trying to add where I knew something. I did try to keep it tame but I see I failed miserably. I was just trying to show there was more to it beyond the relatively tame Church Of Satan in the op. I do very much appreciate your kind words. I am sorry you had a brush with same.