Prehistoric Astronomy and the Younger Dryas Catastrophe?

R

Rick

Guest
It's about time to let the public know, I suppose.

Re: *The Younger Dryas Impact Event:*

Fellow scientists,

The *AGU 2007 Joint Assembly *is being held 22-25 May 2007, in Acapulco,
Mexico. Please join us for a very unusual discussion.

*Contact; Prof. James Kennett,* University of California, SB:
_kennett@geol.ucsb.edu <mailto:kennett@geol.ucsb.edu>_
Conference details are at: _//:www.agu.org/meetings/ja07/?content=home_
Abstract submission is at: _//:submissions5.agu.org/submission/entrance.asp_
*Deadline: 1 MARCH 2007 23:59 UT*

*The Younger Dryas Impact Event:* The deglaciation that followed the
last ice age was abruptly and dramatically interrupted ~12,900 years ago
by widespread cooling that marks the onset of the Younger Dryas. Much
evidence shows that the Younger Dryas was marked by abrupt changes in
ice sheet configuration, the sudden emptying of proglacial lakes,
diversion of North American flood-waters to the northern Atlantic, and
the reorganization of thermohaline circulation.

Nevertheless, significant questions have recently emerged about timing
and direction of major freshwater flows to the oceans, in turn raising
questions about the triggering mechanism for the Younger Dryas. The
onset of the Younger Dryas also appears to have coincided with massive,
widespread, and punctuated changes in animal biota and Paleolithic
cultural development centered in North and South America. This is
represented by the most recent of all mass extinctions, the
disappearance of the megafauna of the Americas, including mammoths,
horses, and ground sloths and the termination of Clovis and other
contemporaneous Paleolithic human cultures. The cause of these changes
is highly controversial and much debated, but is likely tied to the
severe environmental changes that occurred at the beginning of the
Younger Dryas. Another hypothesis attributes the extinctions to
overhunting by Clovis people and other Paleolithic hunters or to
pandemics associated with human migrations. However, all these
hypotheses appear to fall short in satisfactorily explaining much
available evidence.

A new hypothesis posits that Younger Dryas cooling was instead triggered
by extraterrestrial impacts that caused ice sheet destabilization,
flood-water rediversion, and changes in ocean circulation. This work
offers newly uncovered evidence for an ET impact or airbursts at 12.9 ka
including end-Clovis-age sediments throughout North America with high
levels of iridium, magnetic and carbon spherules, glass-like carbon,
fullerenes, and ET noble gas ratios often in association with
carbonaceous layers ("black mats") with unusual biota.

In this session, we invite abstracts that will explore the strengths and
weaknesses of existing and new hypotheses that attempt to explain the
cause of the Younger Dryas, changes in global climate, the extinctions,
and human cultural changes. We are interested in exploring new
perspectives on the chronology, stratigraphic succession, and potential
interconnections between a wide-range of processes that appear to have
been associated with the Younger Dryas. These include abrupt climatic
change, ice-sheet deglaciation, flood-water rerouting, surficial
geology, iceberg discharge, ocean reorganization, including thermohaline
circulation, and sea-level change.

Hope to see you there,

*James P Kennett, Prof
*University of California Santa Barbara
Dept. of Earth Science
Santa Barbara, CA, USA 93106
805-893-3103
kennett@geol.ucsb.edu <mailto:kennett@geol.ucsb.edu>
 

Laura

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Yes, this is a very interesting subject and the focus of the book I am currently reading: "The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes" by Richard Firestone, Allen West and Simon Warwick-Smith.

Highly recommended.
 
R

Rick

Guest
Another good source is Yale University Professor Harvey Weiss's "Beyond the Younger Dryas: Collapse as Adaptation to Abrupt Climate Change in Ancient West Asia and the Eastern Mediterranean". It describes the global climate change events at 12,800, 8200, 5200, and 4200 BP as it relates to the collapse of civilizations. Though he only conjectures the causal mechanism (collapse of the thermohaline, etc.) he does point out the periodicity of the events based on GISP2 and North Atlantic ice rafting at 1,500 +/- 500 years doesn't correspond to these events:

"Although ultimate paleoclimate explanations are still unavailable, the characteristics of the late third millenium climate change are beginning to be known. They include abrupt onset, ca. 300-year duration, radical increase in airborne dust, major aridification, cooling, forest removal, Sanguisorba minor "land degradation," and possible alterations in seasonality." [any typos mine].

http://research.yale.edu/leilan/weissdryas2002.pdf


It's been my experience, having worked in the climate field for nearly the past 17 years, that paleoclimate scientists do not like to look beyond an internal mechanism for climate change, except for the variability of the sun. So it's interesting that the subject is being broached now.
 

cholas

Dagobah Resident
It seems rather surprising that there is such a lack of artifacts from these groups. Apparently what they have in common is their use of fluted stone tools and weapons. From what I've read, they lived until around 13k BC in much of North America as well as parts of Central America.

On closer examination, however, the Younger Dryas Impact could explain their disappearance pretty well as it seems that after multiple cometary impacts not much in the way of physical evidence would be forthcoming.

There doesn't seem to be much mentioned in the C transcripts. Could we theorize that these hunter-gatherers lived between the time of the Flood and the YD(providing they were not one-in-the-same)? And that they were mostly wiped out by the effects of the latter? Were they possibly fleeing a maddening Empire on the verge of collapse? Atlantean refugees who set up camps in various parts of North America?

Were they of the Kantekian racial variety? Or did the survivors eventually become a future Native American group? The Hopi story of Spider Grandmother and their ascent to the surface after the destruction comes to mind. Is Kennewick Man possibly the best preserved skeleton, dating aside?

From what I've read so far, there is evidence that the Impact(meteors) Event created a layer of ash(black mat) under which Clovis tools and campsites as well as Mammoths, etc. that they hunted were found. It is odd, imo, that with all the mastodon and mammoth skeletons/bones found, especially in Alaska and Siberia, there aren't many, if any of Clovis man. Or were there? Another example of hidden history? :huh:

Anyone have any good links or thoughts on this group?

Thanks
 

shijing

The Living Force
cholas said:
There doesn't seem to be much mentioned in the C transcripts. Could we theorize that these hunter-gatherers lived between the time of the Flood and the YD(providing they were not one-in-the-same)? And that they were mostly wiped out by the effects of the latter? Were they possibly fleeing a maddening Empire on the verge of collapse? Atlantean refugees who set up camps in various parts of North America?

Were they of the Kantekian racial variety? Or did the survivors eventually become a future Native American group? The Hopi story of Spider Grandmother and their ascent to the surface after the destruction comes to mind. Is Kennewick Man possibly the best preserved skeleton, dating aside?

[...]

Anyone have any good links or thoughts on this group?

I think these are good questions, and I don't presently know enough to do more than speculate. I tend to think that the Clovis people were at least partly the progenitors of (some) modern Native American groups -- in other words, they weren't Kantekkian (Caucasian), but were likely in situ holdovers from the Atlantean cataclysm, and represent the racial type that existed in that part of the world, in Atlantis, when the cataclysm occurred. It certainly looks like a good number of them were wiped out during some sort of impact event in eastern North America, and I think its very plausible that the ones who weren't wiped out survived on the western half of the continent and then proceeded to repopulate the eastern half as their numbers increased. The linguistic picture supports that, with the large amount of diversity in the western third of North America, and relative homogeneity as you go further east (of course, this is a bit of a tricky subject since European colonization erased the easternmost Native American languages first, and more diversity was preserved as colonization proceeded westward).

But again, this is largely speculation based on the little bit that I know about Clovis.
 

cholas

Dagobah Resident
shijing said:
I think its very plausible that the ones who weren't wiped out survived on the western half of the continent and then proceeded to repopulate the eastern half as their numbers increased. The linguistic picture supports that, with the large amount of diversity in the western third of North America, and relative homogeneity as you go further east...

Yeah, the Clovis sites that have been discovered under the black mat layer seem to be mostly in the western part of the u.s. though the black layer itself is found coast-to-coast. Places like Meadowcroft Rockshelter in Pennsylvania and the Topper site in South Carolina are ''possible Clovis sites''(wiki), apparently implying that that piece of charcoal archeologists found and carbon-dated to 50k BC could also have come from a simple, ancient forest fire. Still no bones or petrified fecal matter.....just those fluted stone tools/weapons. :huh:

The idea of large numbers going underground, possibly with the help of those already there is a possibility. Again, the Hopi stories....

Hypothetically, if some Native American groups were 'rescued' from a comet-impact event in Asia circa 5k BC, it just as well could have been done at other times too. Maybe recurring?

The whole story of the Younger Dryas Impact Event is pretty hard to grasp as the more I read the more questions I have. We may not really understand these massive cataclysms until they happens again. :(
 

shijing

The Living Force
cholas said:
The idea of large numbers going underground, possibly with the help of those already there is a possibility. Again, the Hopi stories....

Hypothetically, if some Native American groups were 'rescued' from a comet-impact event in Asia circa 5k BC, it just as well could have been done at other times too. Maybe recurring?

Yeah, Allan and Delair discuss this in their book Cataclysm!. There are the Hopi stories you mention about being underground with the "ant people" (who several people have connected to Grays), and other stories about being taken underground by white people -- Allan and Delair said they were going to write another book on just this topic, but I don't know if it's going to happen or not -- crossing my fingers! Some stories of going "underground" during the cataclysm could just literally be about seeking shelter in caves, but not all of them, OSIT.

As a matter of fact, the flood survivor stories seem to break down into two groups -- there are the groups that had some kind of "divine warning" and saved themselves on the surface by either retreating to mountaintops or other high ground, or otherwise by building boats and riding the flood out; then, there are the other groups who were "invited" underground to ride it out. In a loose way, I wonder if it recapitulates the distinction between Circle People and Pyramid People. It does seem that there was a hyperdimensional interest in saving some of the "livestock" so that the species would survive and the food source would remain intact.
 
N

nwigal

Guest
Shijing said:
cholas said:
The idea of large numbers going underground, possibly with the help of those already there is a possibility. Again, the Hopi stories....

Hypothetically, if some Native American groups were 'rescued' from a comet-impact event in Asia circa 5k BC, it just as well could have been done at other times too. Maybe recurring?

Yeah, Allan and Delair discuss this in their book Cataclysm!. There are the Hopi stories you mention about being underground with the "ant people" (who several people have connected to Grays), and other stories about being taken underground by white people -- Allan and Delair said they were going to write another book on just this topic, but I don't know if it's going to happen or not -- crossing my fingers! Some stories of going "underground" during the cataclysm could just literally be about seeking shelter in caves, but not all of them, OSIT.

As a matter of fact, the flood survivor stories seem to break down into two groups -- there are the groups that had some kind of "divine warning" and saved themselves on the surface by either retreating to mountaintops or other high ground, or otherwise by building boats and riding the flood out; then, there are the other groups who were "invited" underground to ride it out. In a loose way, I wonder if it recapitulates the distinction between Circle People and Pyramid People. It does seem that there was a hyperdimensional interest in saving some of the "livestock" so that the species would survive and the food source would remain intact.
FWIW, my understanding from the teachings I've received is that the Circle People and the Pyramid People are blended together, and the distinction between those who are called to the mountains and those who go underground is that the latter have, from my experience, a higher percentage of expressed genetic code that allows one to "walk in two worlds", or in this forum's terminology, 3.5 D.
Without this ability, these underground places would not be perceived to be habitable, even if one could perceive the entrance to begin with.
In some strange and perverse way, ensuring survival of living perceptual "reality bridges" not only feeds their world but preserves life in this one- the connection is deeply ecological, even if modified and manipulated, OSIT.
 

Laura

Administrator
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nwigal said:
FWIW, my understanding from the teachings I've received ...

From whom, or where, are these teachings received?
 

cholas

Dagobah Resident
shijing said:
There are the Hopi stories you mention about being underground with the "ant people" (who several people have connected to Grays), and other stories about being taken underground by white people -- Allan and Delair said they were going to write another book on just this topic, but I don't know if it's going to happen or not -- crossing my fingers!

I'll join you in the finger-crossing, shijing.

And look forward to another of your excellent reviews.
 
N

nwigal

Guest
Laura said:
nwigal said:
FWIW, my understanding from the teachings I've received ...

From whom, or where, are these teachings received?
Whom: various recognized (and hidden) authorities within the indigenous population of North America, scientists from military labs and bases, others, objective data, and personal experience.
Where: Mainly North America, but kind of all over.
A redacted list of names, dates, places,and relevant fields of expertise of those involved can be provided, upon request.
 

Laura

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nwigal said:
Whom: various recognized (and hidden) authorities within the indigenous population of North America, scientists from military labs and bases, others, objective data, and personal experience.
Where: Mainly North America, but kind of all over.
A redacted list of names, dates, places,and relevant fields of expertise of those involved can be provided, upon request.

No, I get the gist.

My suggestion to you would be to create your own website where you can post about these things to your heart's content. Create your own forum, too. Otherwise, please keep these contrary "teachings" to yourself as they are not colinear with what this forum is about.
 

Keit

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
There is this "new research" regarding the Younger Dryas:
_http://blog.smu.edu/research/2014/05/12/dating-of-supposed-extraterrestrial-impact-indicators-unreliable-fails-to-prove-comet-sparked-climate-change-at-the-end-of-the-ice-age-or-killed-clovis-people/
"Comet theory false; doesn’t explain cold snap at the end of the Ice Age, Clovis changes or mass animal extinction
Posted on May 12, 2014

Most supposed impact indicators at 29 sites are too old or too young to be remnants of an ancient comet that proponents claim sparked climate change at the end of the Ice Age, killed America’s earliest people and caused a mass animal extinction

Controversy over what sparked the Younger Dryas, a brief return to near glacial conditions at the end of the Ice Age, includes a theory that it was caused by a comet hitting the Earth.

As proof, proponents point to sediments containing deposits they believe could result only from a cosmic impact.

Now a new study disproves that theory, said archaeologist David Meltzer, Southern Methodist University, Dallas. Meltzer is lead author on the study and an expert in the Clovis culture, the peoples who lived in North America at the end of the Ice Age."

Don't have enough knowledge to determine if whatever he says has a merit, but I do remember that C's said that dating techniques used by scientists aren't accurate. Could this research be another example of bad science and damage control?
 

mkrnhr

SuperModerator
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Haven't read the paper yet but it looks like damage control. Mainstream press who never talked about the cometary hypothesis all of a sudden jumped on this paper to "debunk" a theory they have never spoken about. It's smells fishy. I expect a logical flaw in the interpretation of data.
 

Laura

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A version of the article we were reading the other day:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/05/13/what-caused-a-1300-year-deep-freeze-12800-years-ago-new-pnas-paper-says-it-wasnt-an-impact/

...which includes the following:

Either there were many more impacts than supposed, including one as recently as 5 centuries ago...

Well, YEAH! DUUUH!

They throw the baby with the bathwater using faulty logic:

A key element underpinning the controversial hypothesis of a widely destructive extraterrestrial impact at the onset of the Younger Dryas is the claim that 29 sites across four continents yield impact indicators all dated to 12,800 ± 150 years ago. This claim can be rejected: only three of those sites are dated to this window of time.

The fact that 26 impacts around the planet are not exactly dated or undated doesn't cancel the fact three almost concomitant massive impacts occurred at the same time. And among the 26 undated undated impact some have indeed occurred around 12.500 BP and others at various other impact times, all suggesting a lot more impacting goes on than supposed.

How many dated impacts do they need? 1000? 1 million?

And what about the 500000+ impacts of the Carolina Bay?
 
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