Personal environments; stuff, clutter, negative energies and Feng Shui

[Phill4]

I work at a warehouse where people put their items and store them, they pay to store them.

I get to see this everyday. People sometimes are so attached to objects for many reasons, monetary value, emotional value, etx etc...
People will pay in rent sometimes 3 to 10 times what they originally paid for their expensive furniture, personal effects and so on. you find the reasons and you find they don't have a place to put it. They are hiding something, they are not ready to let go and more. There are of couser exeptions to the rule , such as a temporary move or bussines trade etc.

Stagnated energy it is. I don't think people should necesarily live without anything, but there is a measure for it conected sirectly with ones purposes, and for us here to an Aim.

I see hoarders everyday, real hoarders, and it is interesting to see it.
In my work area, with so many people and paperwork, i can't stand mess of papers, and it is a reflection of the work i do, if you leave things to pile up overtime, because of laziness or because it is overwhelming if will stagnate and cause further problems and deterioration of the structure.

The attitude is to simply go through everything one at a time, until you are finish, solve every problem one by one, solve small and big issues and timing, so stands to reason that is what people ought to do in the emotional sense, with their personal items is to use the space to sort things out one by one and recapitulate on them. By the end of the tough process may find in the end the removed a big load , plus payment off their shoulders.

You have no idea the amount of trash i dispose, It is trash to me from my perspective from theirs it is their treasures, and bother are fine and yet the let it all be lost and disposed at times.

I find a coorelation between attachment to objects and to inability to process emotional information correctly. I need more to expand this idea as far as my observations from work.


Personally. I do hold on to memories and objects, i have a small box with my fist phone, letters, and ornaments, that helps i guess conect to the past and not forget. In time, i think such things must be processed to allow us to live constantly in the present. And "living in the present" is an idea of exisiting wholy at every moment. We are not ready to let go because of the many unprocessed emotions we have experienced. It is an oportunity to explore ourselves, i think we have to be ready to look at the past when we are ready to actively go through thing by thing, and become present.
Other objects such as books or information of different value should be preserved and passed on, so saving information is another gray are to the subject.

 

[Turgon]

I think there's a silver lining between what I am willing to give away and clear out, and what can stay. I can only assume that the goal of this isn't to be like a Buddhist monk who goes to the extreme of having the least amount of possessions possible, it depends on the context and what those items represent and mean and in another sense, what kind of feelings and thoughts they evoke. There are a lot of positive memories that are connected with some of the items I have, such as certain pictures or gifts from people who I value and appreciate, items that help remind me of past lessons that are important to remember again from time-to-time, or what's important in life and where my attention and focus needs to be.

As for items that may hold negative energies and imprints based upon what they are and represent and the memories and emotions attached to them, I had a hard time figuring out what needed to be given away to donations or thrown out. So I decided to do an inch-by-inch cleaning of my bedroom this weekend which included dusting and deep cleaning starting with my book collection and seeing as I couldn't decide on which books to give away (if any at the moment) moved onto my CD collection. This was actually really interesting because I went through my CD collection much differently than the bookcase.

I took out and held each and every individual CD and case, and paid attention to what kind of thoughts, responses, emotions or memories they evoked in me. Did they bring me back to a time when I felt depressed or self-pity, what about times when the music was healing and rejuvenating, what kind of lyrical content and message does the music on this CD hold, etc. It was usually pretty immediate as to whether I should keep the CD or not, and there were a little over a dozen that I've put into the 'maybe' pile because I really struggled in deciding whether to give them away or not. But all in all, I will be donating or giving away at least 1/3 of my CD collection that I would say had a 'negative' flavour to them and kept everything that was 'neutral' or 'positive'. Still not sure what to do about the 'maybe' collection though...

Q: (L) Well, I guess we can try asking some questions. Let me see the list. Hold everything! Pause! {Stops to read over list of questions.} Ok, I have a series of questions that have been written out here. The first one is; why have we all been feeling so inflamed/low on energy/depressed/irritable for the last two weeks?

A: Cosmic changes in process. Each person experiences this differently according to genetics and environment. Recall previous sufferings preparatory to DNA boosts? All must keep vigilant about diet and psychic hygiene during this time as there are also external factors that seek to block the natural process.

Q: (L) Does this have anything to do with our super-moon dance?

A: Indeed. And recall that the universe is about balance. After each period of suffering there is always joy.

Q: (Burma Jones) What do they mean by “psychic hygiene”?

A: Being careful about what you allow into your ”field”.

Q: (L) In what sense?

A: All senses.

Q: (L) What do you mean “all senses”?

A: Seeing, hearing, speaking, and so on

Q: (Ark) So, uh, I will tell a story about this “using all your senses”. A few days ago, I went out and I almost had an accident. I was driving on the interior peripherique - on the lane that was closest to the middle. There are three lanes. There was a guy behind me who was very unhappy that I was driving only 90kmh. He was swaying from left to right, trying to get past me and I could see it in the rear-view mirror. I looked to the right and realized I cannot do anything, because there was a car. I could see it.

So, I stayed. After about two minutes, you know, the one behind me again starts to act impatient behind me. But then, I look in the mirror again and the car to the right is gone. So I figure he must have moved somewhere else. Then I started to do {Ark makes descriptive hand gestures showing his driving maneuver} – only the car was there exactly in the right angle [to be in the blind spot.] But, uh, he was a young guy and he was fast. He steps on the brakes – and nothing happened, you see? I usually do not do such things. I was thinking very fast and that he must be gone, but I was not 100% sure. So, I should have waited until I was 100% sure. So, of course nothing happened, he just got upset.

A: We have more in mind. Take care with interacting with negative energies.

Q: (L) Well that’s kinda like creating your own reality, isn’t it?

A: Not what we mean… Keep your guard up and do not allow negative energies to slip by… such as believing lies… listening to negative music while thinking it is positive…watching negative movies and thinking it is negligible. It is extremely important to not lie to the self. One can listen or watch many things as long as the truth of the orientation is known, acknowledged, and understood. Clear?

Q: (L) So, in other words: awareness. Calling a spade a spade and not allowing something negative to enter you and believing it is positive. You can see it, perceive it and acknowledge it but not allow it to influence you. Because obviously, you cannot shut off your perceptions of the world, but you can control how it affects you. So, don’t let it inside, thinking it’s something that it’s not.

(Belibaste) So, see it as it is. If it is negative, see it as negative.

(L) Yeah, and they’re saying to focus on truth in order for changes to manifest in you that are positive. That is, “positive” can mean acknowledging that something is negative because it is truth.

Q: (Galatea) Choose the seeds you wish to water.

(L) Is that basically what we’re talking about here?

A: Yes

 

[Voyageur]

Sorry for bringing up my (darned) books again ... but I have asked myself the same question I bolded above many times. In fact, every time I see the books, this inner "question-turmoil" pops up again.

Superficially there are "good" reasons to keep them - the books are classics, they are complete works, some quite old, but still not very valuable, etc. But then I guess there is a part of guilt involved - throwing them away feels like throwing away part of the memories about my father - which are not overly good, not because he was a particularly bad person, but more because he "checked out" early and left us behind in a mess. So maybe I should just throw them away, but the resistance is HUGE ... which I find quite interesting.

I can understand the problem, that in a way it feels like throwing away a part of your father, even dishonoring his memory. Maybe keep a few that you find particularly special to you, or that you know were to him, and then find a way to hand the others on to someone else who can benefit from them? Donate them to charity so that it’s not so much 'throwing them away'. Then the few that you keep become symbolic of the whole collection, but you keep them by choice.

Maybe it’s a question of scale too, if you’re talking about keeping a lot of books for that reason, that’s something to consider. But I don't think we have to go the whole hog of removing absolutely everything!

I think that's an excellent idea ... although not sure if I can donate these books here, as they are all in German. Not a widely spoken language around here. But I'll see, maybe I'll find someone interested. Thanks for your thoughts, Alada.

The other thing about books is that they are a source (and a future reference source) of information. I kind of prefer physical books to that of computerized storage. Over the years I've let many books go, as you said, not worth keeping, and it's good for the local Library that needs to raise money rather than trashing. Still though, I can do better with pruning.

On the outside environment; gardens, weeding, constructions etc., I'm more favorable to attending these things, while things inside build or remain in a type of static space. The kitchen I try and keep very clean and tidy, and bedrooms, bathrooms. My home office is not so great, nor my bookshelves and the shop/storage area that is a place that is easily forgotten and one on my list of things to do that keeps getting pushed down the list (consciously).

Maybe you learn to think of the internal space in a similar way as the external, as an active energy system. The more we can look after and nurture our space, the better the conditions for all round general growth.

I think in this one sentence you wrote, it captures a part of the essence of our interactions with life, and it is reflective by our personal environment space; its own mirror. Those things that get "pushed down the list" cause its easy and you don't see them, are perhaps the things that should be at the fore of the list.

Personally. I do hold on to memories and objects, i have a small box with my fist phone, letters, and ornaments, that helps i guess conect to the past and not forget. In time, i think such things must be processed to allow us to live constantly in the present. And "living in the present" is an idea of exisiting wholy at every moment. We are not ready to let go because of the many unprocessed emotions we have experienced. It is an oportunity to explore ourselves, i think we have to be ready to look at the past when we are ready to actively go through thing by thing, and become present.
Other objects such as books or information of different value should be preserved and passed on, so saving information is another gray are to the subject.

All very useful comments to further help explore.

Thanks.

 

[Voyageur]

I think there's a silver lining between what I am willing to give away and clear out, and what can stay. I can only assume that the goal of this isn't to be like a Buddhist monk who goes to the extreme of having the least amount of possessions possible, it depends on the context and what those items represent and mean and in another sense, what kind of feelings and thoughts they evoke. There are a lot of positive memories that are connected with some of the items I have, such as certain pictures or gifts from people who I value and appreciate, items that help remind me of past lessons that are important to remember again from time-to-time, or what's important in life and where my attention and focus needs to be.

As for items that may hold negative energies and imprints based upon what they are and represent and the memories and emotions attached to them, I had a hard time figuring out what needed to be given away to donations or thrown out. So I decided to do an inch-by-inch cleaning of my bedroom this weekend which included dusting and deep cleaning starting with my book collection and seeing as I couldn't decide on which books to give away (if any at the moment) moved onto my CD collection. This was actually really interesting because I went through my CD collection much differently than the bookcase.

I took out and held each and every individual CD and case, and paid attention to what kind of thoughts, responses, emotions or memories they evoked in me. Did they bring me back to a time when I felt depressed or self-pity, what about times when the music was healing and rejuvenating, what kind of lyrical content and message does the music on this CD hold, etc. It was usually pretty immediate as to whether I should keep the CD or not, and there were a little over a dozen that I've put into the 'maybe' pile because I really struggled in deciding whether to give them away or not. But all in all, I will be donating or giving away at least 1/3 of my CD collection that I would say had a 'negative' flavour to them and kept everything that was 'neutral' or 'positive'. Still not sure what to do about the 'maybe' collection though...

Q: (L) Well, I guess we can try asking some questions. Let me see the list. Hold everything! Pause! {Stops to read over list of questions.} Ok, I have a series of questions that have been written out here. The first one is; why have we all been feeling so inflamed/low on energy/depressed/irritable for the last two weeks?

A: Cosmic changes in process. Each person experiences this differently according to genetics and environment. Recall previous sufferings preparatory to DNA boosts? All must keep vigilant about diet and psychic hygiene during this time as there are also external factors that seek to block the natural process.

Q: (L) Does this have anything to do with our super-moon dance?

A: Indeed. And recall that the universe is about balance. After each period of suffering there is always joy.

Q: (Burma Jones) What do they mean by “psychic hygiene”?

A: Being careful about what you allow into your ”field”.

Q: (L) In what sense?

A: All senses.

Q: (L) What do you mean “all senses”?

A: Seeing, hearing, speaking, and so on

Q: (Ark) So, uh, I will tell a story about this “using all your senses”. A few days ago, I went out and I almost had an accident. I was driving on the interior peripherique - on the lane that was closest to the middle. There are three lanes. There was a guy behind me who was very unhappy that I was driving only 90kmh. He was swaying from left to right, trying to get past me and I could see it in the rear-view mirror. I looked to the right and realized I cannot do anything, because there was a car. I could see it.

So, I stayed. After about two minutes, you know, the one behind me again starts to act impatient behind me. But then, I look in the mirror again and the car to the right is gone. So I figure he must have moved somewhere else. Then I started to do {Ark makes descriptive hand gestures showing his driving maneuver} – only the car was there exactly in the right angle [to be in the blind spot.] But, uh, he was a young guy and he was fast. He steps on the brakes – and nothing happened, you see? I usually do not do such things. I was thinking very fast and that he must be gone, but I was not 100% sure. So, I should have waited until I was 100% sure. So, of course nothing happened, he just got upset.

A: We have more in mind. Take care with interacting with negative energies.

Q: (L) Well that’s kinda like creating your own reality, isn’t it?

A: Not what we mean… Keep your guard up and do not allow negative energies to slip by… such as believing lies… listening to negative music while thinking it is positive…watching negative movies and thinking it is negligible. It is extremely important to not lie to the self. One can listen or watch many things as long as the truth of the orientation is known, acknowledged, and understood. Clear?

Q: (L) So, in other words: awareness. Calling a spade a spade and not allowing something negative to enter you and believing it is positive. You can see it, perceive it and acknowledge it but not allow it to influence you. Because obviously, you cannot shut off your perceptions of the world, but you can control how it affects you. So, don’t let it inside, thinking it’s something that it’s not.

(Belibaste) So, see it as it is. If it is negative, see it as negative.

(L) Yeah, and they’re saying to focus on truth in order for changes to manifest in you that are positive. That is, “positive” can mean acknowledging that something is negative because it is truth.

Q: (Galatea) Choose the seeds you wish to water.

(L) Is that basically what we’re talking about here?

A: Yes

Good one, Turgon.

 

[annp]

Q: (L) So, in other words: awareness. Calling a spade a spade and not allowing something negative to enter you and believing it is positive. You can see it, perceive it and acknowledge it but not allow it to influence you. Because obviously, you cannot shut off your perceptions of the world, but you can control how it affects you. So, don’t let it inside, thinking it’s something that it’s not.

(Belibaste) So, see it as it is. If it is negative, see it as negative.

(L) Yeah, and they’re saying to focus on truth in order for changes to manifest in you that are positive. That is, “positive” can mean acknowledging that something is negative because it is truth.

Q: (Galatea) Choose the seeds you wish to water.

Interesting, as I have also been thinking the past few days about the C’s recommendation to pay attention to our psychic hygiene and how much our surroundings affect our psyche. Not only does it affect us, but has a decided impact those we come into contact with as well, even though we may not realize it. It was good motivation to start the process of clearing out and cleaning.

One thing that has been helpful in letting go of things is to take turns with friends by having clear-out sessions together. Our friends are much better at getting us to see reason and then pry some of the silly objects we hang onto out of our grip. We then go together straight to a donation center to make sure none of it creeps back into the house! I have to admit that in the past I had a tendency to grab back a few things when I leave them in my car for a few days

I took out and held each and every individual CD and case, and paid attention to what kind of thoughts, responses, emotions or memories they evoked in me. Did they bring me back to a time when I felt depressed or self-pity, what about times when the music was healing and rejuvenating, what kind of lyrical content and message does the music on this CD hold, etc. It was usually pretty immediate as to whether I should keep the CD or not....

I love that idea, Turgon. When it really comes down to it, if the object doesn’t ‘feel’ good or brings up unpleasant emotions, then it really needs to go. And that includes those family ‘hand-me-downs’ that have sentimental value, but aren’t things that we need or really ‘love’ – yet we feel guilty about parting with. It is the more the memory of the person that is important, and there are probably much better ways of holding that person’s memory than hanging onto their stuff if it isn’t something that is truly cherished.

Books are a problem for me as well, but at least yearly, I try to go through and prune my collection. Letting go of those that really only represent past interests is fairly easy, but I too have a collection of old classic books that have been in the family for ages. Even though the pages have yellowed and the type is very small, I am still feeling that barrier against letting them go, and need to work on that.

 

[Phill4]

In the sense of the things we hold on to us, i think of it as a form of "configuration". I truly vote for feng shui in that sense, at home i have found ways to reduce the amount of visual noise greatly having too much Around is stressful.

Turgon, when you made the comparison on the monk, i thought about the whole idea of letting go and STO and all of this, i thing it relates to purpose, the things we have are there because we give it meaning, and we need them for "something" as i said i had to dispose many many many items, that have a seemingly emotional value to their owners (they never answered calls) and think of the idea of purpose and learning path, objects can serve us to reach a different state, once it is not necessary it fades, a monk for his her purpose, their line of work requires them to let go to experience life without obstructions such as greed, jealousy, and insistently vengeance etc coming from interacting with life in that Mainer, the 4th way require us to intentionally interact with life' conditions , which are the elements for struggle needed for the proper development of all aspects and overall.

For a person man number 4 it is an instrument or a means to reach something who understands at the same time and practices the concepts of balance in its interaction with it.

For us, here , we still struggle with the emotions associated to the objects.

Objects such as books the way i see it , taking into account that what we are discussing is a matter of perception and perspective, not limited only to our own, is information that must be passed on.

People I've seen never know all the objects they have, and sometimes it is as if they are waiting time fixes it and as always a reflection of our inner state of being. And objects have a use. If we don't make use of them we are collecting.
Sometimes an obsession with the action of opening a new box and "smelling the new" of it can be at play but the process in one's mind has to be explained further.

 

[Phill4]

To expand on this i think A good way to approach the question is limiting the parameters a little and ask, what does a person need in his/her house? Essential and nonessential and trying to use the law of three here.

------------------------------------------------
Essential
The body
The primary things (support for the body): air light food water healing items clothes

The secondary things (support for the primary): windows electricity/candles, source of food, sewer system water system, pots cleaning supplies

The Third thing (support for the secondary): wood tools objects spare lights etc. cooling heating system objects for reparations and preservation.

Then the non essential for the body and the house.
Ornaments, furniture, shades decorations painting internet audio system rugs plants and others


From then on we are looking at essential and nonessential things from different aspects not the body or house , and again it is relative to each, such as the need to have a videogame , many clothes, many books, many shoes, many ornaments, many paintings, many containers To keep an aspect of ourselves or our memory alive.

as it keeps breaking down you find the seemingly unnecessary things for the body and the house but essential for something else such as a computer.
At that point i think is where we find the emotional connection when we ask what is the connection from a unnecessary object to my body/bodies with my es sense
-------------------------------------------


It is just a little scheme to bring categorization maybe a form of the law of three can be applied where the third aspect is indeed the part of us the requires it. To also find the division between essential and nonessential for the body and a house and our mind. Also it is a good way to take an inventory of ourselves.
The same applies to the essential and nonessential things in one's physical and psychic life, our jobs, and projects and the work of course.

I tried to come up with impartial examples and simple way to express the idea but maybe others can comment.

 

[casper]

Personally, I have never had a problem with the accumulation of unnecessary things in home and neatness of my home.

I think it's started since early childhood. I like to have a clean and neatly arranged area in which I live and work.
In the morning, immediately clean up the bed, the edge of which wash, ironing and immediately order them in a closet.
When I came to this forum, I am familiar with the well-being of the keto diet. I started slowly, pounds disappeared, my clothes were too big. Those clothes that I not could rewrite, I gave my brother, I donated the rest.

When I cook something, and I love to cook, I immediately wash the used dishes, I like to have a clean and tidy desktop.

As nicklebleu, I have a collection of books. Books are stacked in the living room, some of them I donated school of my daughter, some books I shared friends.

I do not like "crowded" in my apartment, so I do not mind to give up items that pack the my living space, I feel in such a place as to not breathe, feel the dust.

Maybe I have the reverse problem, time will tell.

 

[luc]

Thanks for this thread! Me too, I struggled with this all my life, and while I think I got way better during the last years (well, I started out as a complete chaotic horder, reflecting my sorry inner state at that time), there's still much to do for me in terms of de-cluttering.

I think there's a silver lining between what I am willing to give away and clear out, and what can stay. I can only assume that the goal of this isn't to be like a Buddhist monk who goes to the extreme of having the least amount of possessions possible, it depends on the context and what those items represent and mean and in another sense, what kind of feelings and thoughts they evoke. There are a lot of positive memories that are connected with some of the items I have, such as certain pictures or gifts from people who I value and appreciate, items that help remind me of past lessons that are important to remember again from time-to-time, or what's important in life and where my attention and focus needs to be.

Thanks Turgon for this post. I could be wrong, but the bolded part could be a bit of a narrative keeping you from decluttering more? When you say that you keep things that remind you of lessons (negative memories?), how exactly does it work - do you look at these things from time to time, journal about it and take action? What are the concrete positive results of you keeping these things?

When I found this place and came to my first major (and shocking) conclusions as to how horrible and messed-up I was, one of the first things I did was throwing away a LOT. I wasn't sure at that time if it was the right thing, but I simply had no choice, I HAD to do it, the very thought that I had these things lying around, even in the cellar, gave me the chills (talk about bad energy). It was mostly personal things connected to ex-partners, bad episodes in my life and so on, and I was reckless - photo albums, gifts, things I used to be proud of for the wrong reasons etc. Also, idiotic things I hoarded like flyers, old paper notebooks, stuff from school etc. What a relief!!

Still, there's way to go. Sometimes I think about the scenario where I would have to leave the house (because SHTF or something) with only a suitcase containing the essentials. I find this thought somehow liberating - it would free myself from all this internal dialogue and force me to start "fresh", without all this unnecessary stuff. What does this tell me? I think it tells me that we keep most of our stuff just because of false narratives and identification with our false self.

Here are a few narratives I used/use to justify keeping stuff that I probably shouldn't:

• "That's me, I'm just like that" (the lamest and stupidest excuse ever!)
• "When things get rough, I may need it!" (old cloths, technical things/electronics, all kinds of junk... no, I won't!)
• "I may need it if I move or for warranty" (old product packages for technical items etc.)
• "This was a gift, I dishonor the person if I throw it away!" (Nope. If anything, I think this should be reserved to very small things that have a special, positive (in a spiritual sense) and very important meaning to us.)
• "I dishonor this experience/phase of my life connected with this and that item" (No, I don't, I just get rid of things that clutter my house and my mind)
• "I don't see it in daily life, so what's the point throwing it away? There are more pressing things to do." (Whether we see the stuff or not, our environment does matter a great deal!)
• "If I throw away those books, visitors will think less of me if I haven't tons of books on the shelf" (Geez!)
• "It's so much, where to start? Maybe I'll do it one day..." (Famous last words...)

Basically, if we want to change, our environment needs to change as well. Most of these excuses just make us cling to parts of our false self that we identify with and should get rid off. I think a good rule of thumb would be 'when in doubt, get rid of it'. It's also important to start small if we can't muster the strength to do a thorough clean-up - whenever we feel a little energy, we should use it to clean up/de-clutter something.

Also, to keep it that way, it's very important to form new habits - like throwing stuff away immediately, cleaning things directly after use, always putting things back to their place (cupboard etc.)/assigning fixed places for things, cleaning up regularly even though we may think "it's still okay" etc. For some of us (like me), forming these habits is a difficult process and may take time, but every little battle we win against ourselves counts and makes it easier next time.

 

[Alada]

Also, to keep it that way, it's very important to form new habits - like throwing stuff away immediately, cleaning things directly after use, always putting things back to their place (cupboard etc.)/assigning fixed places for things, cleaning up regularly even though we may think "it's still okay" etc. For some of us (like me), forming these habits is a difficult process and may take time, but every little battle we win against ourselves counts and makes it easier next time.

Yep I agree, it’s something to be constantly working on. To help to that end I made a rule for myself. If I spot something in the house that is not where it ought be, I’m not allowed to walk past it without picking it up.

To make efficient use of time, that doesn't always mean putting said item back where it came from exactly right that minute though. So say there’s something downstairs which ought to be upstairs, then it gets put at the foot of the stairs so that on the next intentional trip up there it can be picked up again then and put back where it was supposed to be. And vice versa with things upstairs.

On living like monks or not, I think there’s a lot to consider in terms of intentionally choosing objects and mementos to have around us. I'd add having a few lovely intentionally chosen things and mementos/keepsakes around the place to the 'essentials' list. Those little touches that make the difference between a 'house' and a 'home'. Again it’s about nurturing a positive outer space so as to best support and nurture a positive inner space.

 

[Elohir]

Also, to keep it that way, it's very important to form new habits - like throwing stuff away immediately, cleaning things directly after use, always putting things back to their place (cupboard etc.)/assigning fixed places for things, cleaning up regularly even though we may think "it's still okay" etc. For some of us (like me), forming these habits is a difficult process and may take time, but every little battle we win against ourselves counts and makes it easier next time.

Yep I agree, it’s something to be constantly working on. To help to that end I made a rule for myself. If I spot something in the house that is not where it ought be, I’m not allowed to walk past it without picking it up.

To make efficient use of time, that doesn't always mean putting said item back where it came from exactly right that minute though. So say there’s something downstairs which ought to be upstairs, then it gets put at the foot of the stairs so that on the next intentional trip up there it can be picked up again then and put back where it was supposed to be. And vice versa with things upstairs.

On living like monks or not, I think there’s a lot to consider in terms of intentionally choosing objects and mementos to have around us. I'd add having a few lovely intentionally chosen things and mementos/keepsakes around the place to the 'essentials' list. Those little touches that make the difference between a 'house' and a 'home'. Again it’s about nurturing a positive outer space so as to best support and nurture a positive inner space.

I agree with you Alada.

In fact, I have just read all the thread and I can recognize myself in a lot of people around here. By the way, Luke wrote a good summary :

Here are a few narratives I used/use to justify keeping stuff that I probably shouldn't:

"That's me, I'm just like that" (the lamest and stupidest excuse ever!)
"When things get rough, I may need it!" (old cloths, technical things/electronics, all kinds of junk... no, I won't!)
"I may need it if I move or for warranty" (old product packages for technical items etc.)
"This was a gift, I dishonor the person if I throw it away!" (Nope. If anything, I think this should be reserved to very small things that have a special, positive (in a spiritual sense) and very important meaning to us.)
"I dishonor this experience/phase of my life connected with this and that item" (No, I don't, I just get rid of things that clutter my house and my mind)
"I don't see it in daily life, so what's the point throwing it away? There are more pressing things to do." (Whether we see the stuff or not, our environment does matter a great deal!)
"If I throw away those books, visitors will think less of me if I haven't tons of books on the shelf" (Geez!)
"It's so much, where to start? Maybe I'll do it one day..." (Famous last words...)

Nevertheless, I don't think we should start throwing all our stuffs and form new habits about every objects wich pass in our life.
Everything is about balance and as Alada wrote it the 1rst time, all objects shouldn't be thrown away. Don't forget that energy, positive and negative, is everywhere, in everything.

Of course, I also think that we have to consciously understand why we keep some objets and make our best to do a proper cleansing. For example, take benefit from an appartment moving, the spring, or any good reason ^^

But we have to be careful and not become some maniac in the other sense throwing away everything that stands in our "way". By the way, it reminds me the current marketing strategy : don't keep, just throw away and buy it again ! It's one of the principles of the mass consumption...

I thank you Voyageur for this interesting thread that concerns many people and all those who have anwsered for your experiments about this.
I think we all know, that it's a part of the work on oneself to clean our home from old objects (good and bad memories, old injuries, barriers for our improvement, protections,...).

 

[luc]

To make efficient use of time, that doesn't always mean putting said item back where it came from exactly right that minute though. So say there’s something downstairs which ought to be upstairs, then it gets put at the foot of the stairs so that on the next intentional trip up there it can be picked up again then and put back where it was supposed to be. And vice versa with things upstairs.

Yes, I made a similar rule, but it means going against old habits repeatedly - sometimes I still fail, and I need to work on this more. But it really does get easier the more I practice it. As for the 'parking' of stuff that needs to go up/downstairs, we do something similar - we lovingly call them "hitchhikers" :)

On living like monks or not, I think there’s a lot to consider in terms of intentionally choosing objects and mementos to have around us. I'd add having a few lovely intentionally chosen things and mementos/keepsakes around the place to the 'essentials' list. Those little touches that make the difference between a 'house' and a 'home'. Again it’s about nurturing a positive outer space so as to best support and nurture a positive inner space.

I agree - I think we really do need some positive items that reflect/adjust our 'house energy'. One aspect that ties into this is what our Aims are I think - so for example, we put things on the wall/cupboards that have a positive meaning to us, that reflect a reality we want to express and reach. So it's important what to display - at least for me, random things from the past won't do, but things that clearly have a positive meaning/energy with regards to the future. So, clutter-free doesn't mean living like a monk or spartan, but I think with this argument we sometimes fool ourselves and justify more clutter than needed, especially those of us who always had problems with this.

But we have to be careful and not become some maniac in the other sense throwing away everything that stands in our "way". By the way, it reminds me the current marketing strategy : don't keep, just throw away and buy it again ! It's one of the principles of the mass consumption...

Yes, I have known people with terrible OCD tendencies, who can't stand having ANYTHING around them that they don't use all the time. People who get into a rage if you don't use a towel to clean the sink everytime you wash your hands; things like that. I've seen them throw away great and even very valuable items, which they could have sold at high prices! To be fair though, I think these people are rare, and I think they are better off than the hoarders. Also, the fact that there are such people can be a convenient excuse to not get a grip on our lives - in the past, I heard myself justify my chaos by saying "I don't wanna be OCD", or even accusing people who gave me a hint: "Don't be so OCD!"

As for the 'throw away culture', I completely agree - it's actually a great exercise in will power to always try to repair things, plus you learn a lot in the process! So many things CAN be easily repaired or fixed. It also means taking a stand symbolically against this insane 'consumption culture'. Also, this ties in with the topic of cluttering: my father once gave me a good advice, which I stubbornly ignored: "If you buy, buy something good, and enjoy it for a long time". So, instead of having 3 crappy computers, it's better to buy a really good one once and enjoy a good working machine for years. Instead of buying 5 long underpants that are not really warm and comfortable, better to buy one high-quality merino pair. Instead of having 7 pairs of crappy jeans, better to invest in 2 really good ones that look nice and make you feel comfortable, etc. This reduces both clutter and expenses in the long run, plus high quality 'work horse' items can make us more productive I think.

 

[theos]

On living like monks or not, I think there’s a lot to consider in terms of intentionally choosing objects and mementos to have around us. I'd add having a few lovely intentionally chosen things and mementos/keepsakes around the place to the 'essentials' list. Those little touches that make the difference between a 'house' and a 'home'. Again it’s about nurturing a positive outer space so as to best support and nurture a positive inner space.

I agree - I think we really do need some positive items that reflect/adjust our 'house energy'. One aspect that ties into this is what our Aims are I think - so for example, we put things on the wall/cupboards that have a positive meaning to us, that reflect a reality we want to express and reach. So it's important what to display - at least for me, random things from the past won't do, but things that clearly have a positive meaning/energy with regards to the future. So, clutter-free doesn't mean living like a monk or spartan, but I think with this argument we sometimes fool ourselves and justify more clutter than needed, especially those of us who always had problems with this.

Yes, clutter-free doesn't mean minimalist. Little touches and well-chosen knick knacks can be a reflection of your tastes and personality and can have special meaning for members of the household. Just enough to be pleasant to look at without being too distracting or dominating the room.

My general rule is to throw out things that aren't used in about 3 months. This excludes seasonal items and clothes, preparation stuff and a few decorative items. Books and family photos are excluded too. I never had much of a personal library since joining the forum. I just rented from the library. So when I finally started buying books I considered them mine forever. I haven't really fixed on what to do with CD's. I have an MP3player for music now and if the poo hits the fan I'm pretty much in similar situation with both, batteries for a CD player or finding a way to charge the MP3. So I have an attachment to the CD's for sure. They're in a box in the attic.

 

[Elohir]

Your father gave you a very good advice Luc :D

In fact, you said a lot of true things here and after all these various experiments from everyone, it seems to me that balance should be our goal with objects.
But it's also far more complicated that a simple word... Each people has its own habits with objects according to his personality, his soul, his education, instruction, acknowledge...

Even people for those who don't want to store objects, it could be a program or explained by some events in the past even in past lives.

3rd density is a material one and men have to find their way dealing with material if they want to improve and understand a part of what they are and what they have to become...

Of course, it's still pretty hard to deal with ourselves so interacting with other kind of material can look quite impossible sometimes

We cannot find only one answer to this matter nicely brought by Voyageur since each case, each people is different. We all must find our own way to balance our relation with material wich contains keys to our own understanding. Of course, we can find some general patterns but we cannot avoid a certain work on the innerself...

 

[Nachtweide]

I have found that in certain personalities collecting and chaos is widespread.
Collect = fear of loss, fear of losing something that can not decide
Very interesting is the intersection of those who collect the same time and have problems with decisions - not down.

Question: What do you need objects really to live?
Answer: I do not need this. I do not need that.
Demand: I do not know what you do not need, but try to define what needs you have.
Answer: I do not know. I can say what I want / need not only you.
Question: Here is a drawer. Try to find things that you do not need.
Answer: I can remove anything, because I'm not sure if I really need these things once. Although I know exactly that it is nonsense.

Even Insecure personalities have a very strong tendency to collect. This is reflected in all areas of life. Can not decide to start many things and bring nothing to the end.
Those suffering from their lack of energy and lack of discipline.
Another point is impaired concentration and attention disorders. Everything is started, everywhere is necessary, but it can not be brought in a position slightly to the end, because you will be constantly distracted.

I myself editing for me this issue also. The chaos in my mind was reflected in my environment. The more fears and dramas I experienced mentally, the more chaos was in my mental environment. Previously I defended this mess with excuses, basically I have suffered much from it. My ex-husband was a compulsive hoarding, and so I spent most of the time in life trying to establish order.
Since his departure 3 years ago I started to declutter. It was terrible. Now summer was the last action - for 3 weeks. I have worked myself a very strict schedule:
a) absolute necessity for life
b) things that are useful and which I have used in the last 2 years
It all was discarded what did not work, was broken, had no meaning for me. With every action I felt freer, happier. The energy returned to every corner of my house. Above all, it affected all things that belonged to my ex-husband. I could feel it when I touched his property. And it was not a good feeling. This also affected memorabilia in my apartment. Some I have removed and since then I feel different - better. I remember how the energy was in my house when my husband was here. Even my children felt that they had changed after the move. It happened by itself, but it was important that I have eliminated everything that had to do with him.
Now I have only what I need and what is a really lasting value for me. Important was also a system of order by means of boxes, which are labeled. Now my outer life is so organized and structured as my inner life.