Pentagon Strike Video: Information

ToeKnee said:
Although the video on the website is very compelling and does raise a lot of questions; none of those questions can be answered properly without the release of more evidence.

Did a 757 hit the Pentagon?
Do some research. Search for pictures of, 757 crash sites.
Get a picture of the pentagon hit.
Even a child can see. "One of these things doesn't look like the other"

http://www.infofocus.ca/blogger.html


Get pictures of planes crashing into buildings; there is a few.
Get picture of pentagon before collapse.
Even a child can see. "One of these things doesn't look like the other"

Maybe you asked this question, because you do not want to see the real question/answer.
 
"Sorry, but I do not know you are and I have not eveidence whatsoever that you are "searching for truth". In fact, from what you are writing it seems to me (and I give it a reasonably high probability) that you are trying to dilute and redirect the discussion. Evidence: putting "Disinformation" in the subject of this thread."

What an insult. You have obviously not taken the time and effort to see what I am saying. You have OBVIOUSLY not taken the time to read the links I have provided. AND you have obviously taken the first swing to personally insult me, and you "do not know" me. I did not such thing to you or anyone else.

"ToeKnee, what you're selling no one here is buying. We know, we know, you want us to leave the whole Pentagon issue alone...now, I wonder why that is?"

I am not saying leave it alone; I am saying not to get too distracted by it because there is much more compelling evidence at the other two crime scenes.

"If you actually take the time to read the threads that Laura requested, and then, you still feel the same way about this subject, then please come back and talk to us about why that is. Maybe, we're missing something."

I have taken the time to read most of them and I have also taken the time to read hundreds of other webpages. And I still disagree.

"At this point, however, you're hocking old wares, and ones that the PTB sorely want you to hock - please do it elsewhere."

I have posted in several forums and this is the one website where I have had the most opposition. I do not know why that is, but I will stop blogging on this website.

MY MAIN POINT:
There is much more evidence in NYC because like I said before, it is a PHYSICAL impossibility that the North and South towers, as well as Building 7 to collapse as they did without the use of demolitions. In the history of modern buildings, these are the only three towers to fall from so-called "fire damage." Which like I said before, brings up the bigger question: how did explosives get put in the building before hand? Which points to the fact that 9/11 is an inside job. How is this not the most direct way to say that 9/11 was pulled off by people in our own country? As compelling as the Pentagon is, it is not as compelling as what happened in NYC, especially when there are numerous of eyewitness testimonies saying they heard explosives.

And like I said before, I'm done with this forum. I trust the news on this website, but I certainly do not enjoy blogging on this site. Good-bye.
 
ToeKnee said:
"No, absoutely not. I never said to be silent about any evidence. My main point here is that we shouldn't get stuck arguing about evidence that is not conclusive. All the pictures and videos released by the federal government are very ambigious; did a 757 hit or not hit? With the evidence we have in our hands, it can honestly go both ways. Think about this, why would the people behind 9/11 not use a 757 to hit the Pentagon? Wouldn't that raise more questions and more doubt? If they were going to pull something this big off, wouldn't they make sure to use a 757 or something that is very similar to a 757 in order to stick to their story? It is foolish to think that the government/the people behind this, would not take the extra step to use a 757 to hit the Pentagon.

Another point is, we don't know why the FBI will not release further evidence at the Pentagon site. First off, they could either be hiding that it really wasn't a 757 that hit the Pentagon. Or Secondly, they could be deliberately withholding evidence to polarize the 9/11 truth movement by distracting people away from the other two crime scenes. We must consider both possibilities.
Either reason could be valid, but as has been pointed out, the media has done a bang-up job keeping WTC to the forefront of public consciousness. Besides, truth-seekers are not confined to the tissue paper released by the FBI. There is plenty of visual and eyewitness evidence. You are familiar, I would assume, with this site which shows the impossilbity of a plane as large as 757 being the culprit in the attack:

http://www.geocities.com/pentalawn2000/

and with this extensive collection of eyewitness accounts describing the object as it flew by (scroll down 2/3):

http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/signs/911eyewitnesses.htm

and this exhaustive analysis of the "757 did hit the Pentagon" fallacy on ATS by Joe Quinn

http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/Above_Top_Secret_article.htm

Anothere interesting angle is the implication of a "turf war" of the different branches within the military. Notice that the Navy took the biggest hit in terms of losses and in their intelligence section to boot. Here is yet another reason to keep attention on the civilian losses. Again from:

http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/signs/911eyewitnesses.htm

So, what if there was someone - or something - in the Pentagon that someone wanted to preserve OR destroy?

We notice that the Navy lost its new command center.

We wonder, of course, if the Navy ONI was one agency that had not been compromised by the NEOcon invasion of Washington? Could that be one of the reasons that the Naval Command Center was destroyed? Consider the following:

Al Martin's book "The Conspirators" is a secret history of the late 20th century and an uncensored version of what really goes on in the back rooms of realpolitik brokers and go-fers. - In his book, Al writes that contrary to popular belief, ONI is the most powerful US intelligence agency. "The ONI already had a deep existing covert illegal structure. They had a mechanism before the CIA even existed. They had contacts in foreign intelligence services and in foreign governments that the CIA never could have hoped to obtain."

"The only people the CIA wouldn't step on to accomplish their aims was ONI. They would easily subvert an FBI or DEA investigation, but never ONI, because they were frightened of them." - "ONI is where the real deep control is. It's where the real deep secrets are kept. That was what ONI always did the best. Keeping secrets. Accumulating secrets. Warehousing secrets for the purposes of control."

"When I asked him 'what secrets?' he replied, "One thing I can tell you is the ONI was instrumental in dethroning former Mexican President Louis Portillo. Portillo got very friendly with George Bush and the CIA, and ONI had never alligned with the Bush faction. I know what people think, but that's not true. From what I can tell, it has never been aligned, but has always been hostile to that Eastern Country Club Bush Cabal and their friends in the CIA. The Bill Casey faction is the George Bush-Allen Dulles Faction."

Not a very nice idea, is it? That the United States has been taken over by a coup d'etat, that the secrets of the ways and means of keeping "American Freedoms" may have been destroyed in the WTC, and in a few selected rooms of the Pentagon.

So, this hypothesis has actually split into two directions: that of alibi, or intentional murder.

If we consider the Alibi conjecture, we include the idea that precision was necessary to insure the safety of CERTAIN occupants of the building. If you inflict an injury on yourself to allay suspicion, you don't want to make a mistake and blow your head off!

In short, considering the above questions, it is possible that a number of the conspirators were IN THE PENTAGON AT THE TIME IT WAS HIT, or that certain TARGETS were in the builiding, and this was the reason for a different "mode of attack" - a precision strike. And it is possible that both objectives could be served with a precision strike.

We notice that Newsweek coyly mentions that "On Sept. 10, NEWSWEEK has learned, a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns."

If what we have theorized is true, it's not likely that they canceled their travel plans because they might get on the wrong jet - after all, according to them, they didn't know about a possible terrorist attack - but rather to assure that they would be in place for their alibi - or their destruction. I would be very interested to know who those guys were.
So the question would be, "What is it about the Pentagon attack that is so damning, that it must be dropped down the memory hole ASAP?" Consciously or not, btw, you are vigourously helping to do that. All the arguments you have made that energy is being wasted with "the evidence the FBI released" have a definate guilt-tripping quality. OSIT.

Herondancer
 
ToeKnee said:
What an insult. You have obviously not taken the time and effort to see what I am saying. You have OBVIOUSLY not taken the time to read the links I have provided. AND you have obviously taken the first swing to personally insult me, and you "do not know" me. I did not such thing to you or anyone else.
Now you are talking nonsense. We know all the links you quoted and more. Moreover, your theory that Pentagon/not Boeing 757 is a government planted disinfo has no evidence whatsoever. Why are you trying to plant truly conspirational theories (that is theories for which the only evidence is "because I say so"?)
 
ToeKnee said:
MY MAIN POINT:
There is much more evidence in NYC because like I said before, it is a PHYSICAL impossibility that the North and South towers, as well as Building 7 to collapse as they did without the use of demolitions.
This is where you go wrong. Everyone has watched the two planes fly into the WTC. It's embedded into our consciousness. There are no pictures or videos of a plane flying into the Pentagon. Your argument is actually more convoluted. The videos that the FBI confiscated near the Pentagon could prove the government's point yet they are not released. This is deception. You want to split hairs about which "area" should be "focused on".

And here we see the real motivation behind the no-plane-at-the-pentagon haters: they would much rather keep it complicated than simple.

Paralysis From Analysis is what people like ToeKnee are hoping for :/
 
"Paralysis From Analysis"

yeah, Beau, that is just about spot on. The warning sign is the strenuous attempts to persuade everyone NOT to follow a certain line of enquiry! like a kid saying "yes mum I HAVE tidied my room, but please don't look!" :D

If someone decided that another line of enquiry is fruitful, then they should just do it and present any conclusions. Attempting to persuade others to abandon their own research is hardly a valid contribution.
 
ToeKnee said:
It is strong, but not strong enough.
Lets forget for a moment which evidence is stronger. Ok. Now it's easy to see, why the "911 movement" doesn't want to look at the Pentagon:

If we look only at the WTC and the crime will be exposed, you will probably not find any relationship that the government was involved. It would be just a crime. Maybe it was just the owner of the towers? Who knows?

But if the public would find out that the "attack" at the Pentagon was a staged attack, it would be immediately clear for all to see, that the US government is guilty. Everything else would automatic be included. This would topple the US government. They know that and have to prevent this at any cost.

Now show me only one really GOOD deed the US government did for ALL US citizens in the last 20 years? Maybe also for the poor and those who need help? There was non, it gets worse and worse. So I must assume that the probability is very high that the government does not work for the people.

Show me only one good reason the government had to keep something secret for the GOOD of all US citizens? Look at the history. There was none. Then there was "Perl Harbor", Vietnam, Irak. All places were US citizens died because people on the top decided so. We see that human life means nothing for them. Therefore if a staged attack in the US is needed, it's easy for them to kill some US people.

Under such circumstances I have to assume that the "not releasing" of the videos of the pentagon attack is because they have something to hide from public. It almost obvious, that the US government is guilty.
 
Signs of the Times deleted my account, so I am using a new name. Apparently, they did not agree with what I was saying so they decided the easiet thing to do was to delete my account.

This website hits the nail right on the head most of the time, but when it comes to 9/11, it is far from objective reality.

Want truth? Want analysis to keep you reading for days?

http://www.911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html
 
ToeKnee said:
It is strong, but not strong enough. There is no hard evidence to conclude that a 757 did not hit the Pentagon. That is my point. But...the media has also been forced to come up with excuses for the collapses of the three towers due to "fire damage." While the corporate media has taken the time try and discount what has happened at the Pentagon; they have not taken the time to air anything about explosives in NYC.
Your logic, or your understanding of the facts here, is faulty. Hence Laura's suggestion that you take the time to do some further research.

You claim that there is no "hard evidence" to conclude that a 757 did not hit the Pentagon, but neither is there "hard evidence" that one did. Equally, there is no "hard evidence" that the WTC towers were not brought down by planes and fire, but neither is there "hard evidence" they were.

What there IS, in BOTH cases, is a LACK of evidence to support the official government line that planes and fire brought down the WTC towers and that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, and it is this LACK of evidence which supports the conspiracy theories that No Boeing hit the Pentagon and plane impacts and fire brought down the WTC towers.

At the Pentagon, there was hard evidence of only ONE engine, i.e. there was a LACK of another engine or damage from it, suggesting that a twin engined 757 did NOT hit.

At the WTC, there was hard evidence of the towers collapsing at near free fall, i.e. there was a LACK of evidence of resistance from the floors of the towers that should have ensured that their collapse took a LOT longer.

Again, there is a LACK of evidence to support the government story of what actually happened in New York and Washington on 9/11, both at the WTC and the Pentagon. As such, the statement that a 757 did not hit the Pentagon is AS VALID as the claims that the WTC towers were not felled as a result of plane impacts and fire.

The claim by certain 9/11 researchers, Mike Ruppert for one, that the "no Boeing at the Pentagon" theory is damaging to, and divides, the 9/11 truth movement does not stand up to scrutiny. Knowing what we know about CoIntelPro, it is very likely that this claim is actually part of an operation by government agents, or those in some way in their employ, to do exactly what they claim the "no boeing at the pentagon" theory is doing - divide the 9/11 truth movement.

As for the corporate media. I am not aware that it has given any more airtime in attempting to debunk conspiracy theories about the Pentagon than it has done to debunk conspriacy theories about the WTC collapses etc. Generally, the mainstream media simply ignores or ridicules ALL conspiracy theories equally. Of course, there is the fact of our Pentagon Strike flash, which was seen by vastly more people than any other 9/11 video or dissertation. It was this fact that baited the Washington Post out of its lair in an attempt to do some damage control. Loose change, they could ignore because of its relatively limited exposure.

As far as we are concerned, anyone who tries to steer 9/11 researchers away from exposure of the Pentagon attack, has either succumbed to the manipulations of Cointelpro, or are part of the Cointelpro operation themselves.

Indeed, as we have written in our books, our reasearch shows that there were two groups involved in the 9/11 attacks. An American contingent and an Israeli one. The Israeli contingent came out of the 9/11 attacks as the dominant group and with a very distinct advantage over their American partners in crime. You could call it an old-fashioned double-cross.

Suffice to say that it is the Pentagon attack and the lack of a Boeing 757 at that site, that holds the threat of exposing the Israeli contingent. This is why most of the efforts of the Cointelpro operation is dedicated to preventing investigation of events at the Pentagon. Because it would expose them.

It also gives an insight into where the real power resides in American politics.

Joe
 
UchihaTony said:
Signs of the Times deleted my account, so I am using a new name. Apparently, they did not agree with what I was saying so they decided the easiet thing to do was to delete my account.

This website hits the nail right on the head most of the time, but when it comes to 9/11, it is far from objective reality.
ToeKnee AKA UchihaTony said:
And like I said before, I'm done with this forum. I trust the news on this website, but I certainly do not enjoy blogging on this site. Good-bye.
Speaking of objective reality, I guess the mods thought you were telling the truth for once.
 
ToeKnee said:
Wait...what? I do not understand what you are saying here. "The FBI deliberately withholding these date is an evidence that tells us more than any other evidence you are talking about."? I understand that they are deliberately withholding evidence, but at the same time, they are also deliberately releasing controversial evidence- such as the Pentagon. I never argued that the evidence is not real...it is 100% real; but it is not conclusive.

"And you would like us to be silent about this evidence?"

No, absoutely not. I never said to be silent about any evidence. My main point here is that we shouldn't get stuck arguing about evidence that is not conclusive.
In that case, all the government has to do is refuse to release all the evidence about any crime they commit, and you will ignore that crime and focus on another one.

ToeKnee said:
That is your perspective my friend... There is reason why the government released such a low quality video; to continue the ongoing debate of the no-757 boeing theory.
The above sentence is an assumption. You do not know for sure why the government released such a low quality video. So, while you provide two possibilities for the Pentagon strike (either they are hiding something, or they want to distract the 9/11 movement), it is clear that you have assumed that the latter is true - even while you are effectively telling other forum members not to make assumptions.

ToeKnee said:
And what I am saying is that we inside the 9/11 truth movement must avoid concentrating so much effort at the Pentagon; where there is not enough evidence to conclude anything.
We - and many others - are focusing on the Pentagon strike as the achilles heel of 9/11. You aren't. So the real questions are why are you here on our forum making assumptions while accusing others of doing the same? And why is it so important to you that we accept your assumptions as true?

ToeKnee said:
Believe it or not, there are people within our own movement that spread disinformation in order to muddy up the argument; in order to keep 9/11 a "conspiracy theory" rather than a "conspiracy."
Yes, we know. They visit us on our forum quite frequently.
 
ToeKnee said:
"Sorry, but I do not know you are and I have not eveidence whatsoever that you are "searching for truth". In fact, from what you are writing it seems to me (and I give it a reasonably high probability) that you are trying to dilute and redirect the discussion. Evidence: putting "Disinformation" in the subject of this thread."

And like I said before, I'm done with this forum. I trust the news on this website, but I certainly do not enjoy blogging on this site. Good-bye.
I agreed, maybe one of the best news sites.

What do you enjoy?
Sending me this email?

ToeKnee said:
ToeKnee from Signs of the Times Forum has sent you a message. You can reply to ToeKnee by replying to this e-mail.



The message reads as follows:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------



You are assuming that these are the only pictures. Ask yourself this: what if the plane exploded before hitting the pentagon?



-----------------------------------------------------------------------



-- Signs of the Times Forum Mailer
No I am not assume-ing.

I have no need to ask myself that.

I know that exploding planes leave debris.


ShamanSam said:
"Maybe you asked this question, because you do not want to see the real question/answer."
 
you're forgetting the indestructable un-scratchable debris-swallowing 'Penta-lawn' (tm) :D
 
You arrived, opened this thread with the initial title "Pentagon Strike Video: Disinformation". Then you wrote:

ToeKnee said:
So what is the next thing to do? Stop talking about the Pentagon where questions can not be answered due to insufficient evidence and move on to what can be questioned and answered more readily. Let us not get too distracted by one crime scene and move on to the other two crime scenes; where there is much more evidence that can be analyzed.
As I pointed out, the Pentagon Strike has been the only thing produced in the five years that has forced the guilty into responding.

But you want us to give it up AND you label the Pentagon Strike "disinformation".

Then you get upset at the way you say we are treating you! You act all innocent and play the victim.

ToeKnee said:
"Sorry, but I do not know you are and I have not eveidence whatsoever that you are "searching for truth". In fact, from what you are writing it seems to me (and I give it a reasonably high probability) that you are trying to dilute and redirect the discussion. Evidence: putting "Disinformation" in the subject of this thread."

What an insult. You have obviously not taken the time and effort to see what I am saying. You have OBVIOUSLY not taken the time to read the links I have provided. AND you have obviously taken the first swing to personally insult me, and you "do not know" me. I did not such thing to you or anyone else.
There is no insult to you here, only an observation based on your acts while you were here.

You started off by labelling the Pentagon Strike "disinformation".

Then you get upset at the way you say we are treating you! You act all innocent and play the victim.

We don't know you. How else are we to judge you than by what you write and how you act here?

If you knew our work, then you would know that we think the people who tell us to ignore the Pentagon are spreading disinformation.

And like I said before, I'm done with this forum. I trust the news on this website, but I certainly do not enjoy blogging on this site. Good-bye.
You started off by labelling the Pentagon Strike "disinformation".

Then you get upset at the way you say we are treating you! You act all innocent and play the victim.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

For many people, the characterising feature of trolling is the perception of intent to disrupt a community in some way. Inflammatory, sarcastic, disruptive or humorous content is posted, meant to draw other users into engaging the troll in a fruitless confrontation. The greater the reaction from the community the more likely the user is to troll again, as the person develops beliefs that certain actions achieve his/her goal to cause chaos. This gives rise to the often repeated protocol in Internet culture: "Do not feed the trolls."
A common tactic that many trolls resort to is the strategy of using multiple usernames or pseudonyms that are ready to use just in case a debate or argument emerges. By using multiple usernames (called "sock puppets" in this context) and a variety of artificial personalities the troll would have the ability to protect his image in a community. A troll would then also be able to increase his or her influence in an entire online community by simply using those other self serving nicks to increase the attention towards his or her most favored account.
Motivation:
Suppression of information: A particularly nihilistic troll often aims to curb the sharing of helpful information between forum participants. For example, the skilled troll can turn an informative discussion about tips and techniques on coping with disease X... into a completely useless flame fest. This can keep essential information out of the hands of those who need it most, thus proliferating human suffering. A slightly less hostile variant is the supression of a discussion the troll does not like or finds offensive. A troll trolling a thread of sexist jokes would fit into this category.
 
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