Mind-Blowing AI Image Generator - Give Visual Representation to C's Concepts?

I have to admit that I view this whole thing with some bias. I understand that with certain limits and moderation AI can have a positive use. I think the ideal is that AI can speed up certain jobs, but nothing more. But knowing the current state of things and the behavior of people, my concerns go on the side of lack of ethics (Faking talent, saying it was work of own hand when it was done by a software, scamming people, etc.) On the other that it leads people to dependency and not to develop skills, and in the end leave everything in the hands of the technocrats in power.

I use my smartphone quite a lot, and from time to time I use the gps to locate myself on the map. But the day smartphones become useless, I will know how to read the map in my pocket. But I'm not sure about a little boy born in 2008...
 
Fair point, and one that I don't think we can answer until it happens. I would also say that until the AI can think for itself, it's not being creative, it's merely doing what it is told by us and basically copying styes and tropes from what ever it has learned from. So, for the moment I would say that the creativity lies with us, and indeed, if you are creatively minded you could create some very interesting things with this tech, things nobody has thought of or seen before. But! I agree, in the future when it evolves this could be a very real problem.

I guess one could also argue that the observer is already far removed form the artist in todays's world, we view most things through a screen including art. It's an interesting observation, now I can look at pretty much any "great work of art" be it a building or a painting anywhere in the world, but not seeing it in the flesh as it were, does that take away from the work itself? Not seeing it as the artist intended?
Well, I think that's the crux of the matter, AI can never be creative as a human can be creative... but it can emulate the results with high fidelity, so as to supplant it. Breaking art down to its components and replicating it.

And yes, as of today, AI is merely a tool, and as such for now it will do only what it is commissioned to do, but all along it's learning. And the question becomes how much will the artist begin to pass on to the machine. I personally use rendering software a lot, and that is passing painting to a machine that does it in seconds, so I understand the AI as a tool to make life more efficient, but I am selling the renderings as renderings and no one is trying to convince themselves that they're real life, nor am I allowing the software to design what is being rendered.

I think we've come to a point beyond that, where we went from printing art created by a human.. to allow the machine to create the art piece and then print it, cutting off the human entirely.

And I don't know if I entirely agree with the removal from the artist because of the medium, if I listen to a song on my phone, or my car.. I still connect to the musician, sometimes unconsciously, on the other side. So long as the medium remains a passive delivery method, I think the connection can remain, it's when the medium expands and takes more roles from the artist that the connection gets lost.

Perhaps put another way, and since you're a musician yourself, how much of your music would you be comfortable with, if parts of it were created by an AI that simply composed something after you wrote a few lines on a computer screen? Again, mixing, and post production, equalizing, recording.. it will all be done by machines, but those remain passive. It's the composition part of the music that is yours, that others connect to when they listen to it through whatever medium, and that is what AI is aiming to take over.
 
Well, I think that's the crux of the matter, AI can never be creative as a human can be creative... but it can emulate the results with high fidelity, so as to supplant it. Breaking art down to its components and replicating it.

And yes, as of today, AI is merely a tool, and as such for now it will do only what it is commissioned to do, but all along it's learning. And the question becomes how much will the artist begin to pass on to the machine. I personally use rendering software a lot, and that is passing painting to a machine that does it in seconds, so I understand the AI as a tool to make life more efficient, but I am selling the renderings as renderings and no one is trying to convince themselves that they're real life, nor am I allowing the software to design what is being rendered.

I think we've come to a point beyond that, where we went from printing art created by a human.. to allow the machine to create the art piece and then print it, cutting off the human entirely.

And I don't know if I entirely agree with the removal from the artist because of the medium, if I listen to a song on my phone, or my car.. I still connect to the musician, sometimes unconsciously, on the other side. So long as the medium remains a passive delivery method, I think the connection can remain, it's when the medium expands and takes more roles from the artist that the connection gets lost.

Perhaps put another way, and since you're a musician yourself, how much of your music would you be comfortable with, if parts of it were created by an AI that simply composed something after you wrote a few lines on a computer screen? Again, mixing, and post production, equalizing, recording.. it will all be done by machines, but those remain passive. It's the composition part of the music that is yours, that others connect to when they listen to it through whatever medium, and that is what AI is aiming to take over.
and that is what AI is aiming to take over.
Well, my question is if it is just AI where does this "will" to take over come from? Perhaps "soul imprint"? This is a very interesting subject for me.

Is it just a matter of souled vs soulless?

Session 25 February 1995:
Q: (L) STO beings do not exert power over anyone, they only serve all. When STS beings call for knowledge and have raised their frequency levels, which can be done while still remaining STS, the only place in the universe they will obtain knowledge is from STO beings, even though they may use this knowledge to serve themselves. STS beings won't GIVE knowledge, because that is STO. (GB) Do the Lizzies have souls?

A: Yes.


Q: (BP) Were the Mayans an STS civilization?

A: No.

Q: (BP) Why did they engage in human sacrifice and so forth?

A: They did not.
 
Is it just a matter of souled vs soulless?
I realize that this question is in a way at the crux of our plight.

It is this duality in which we are living that causes us to realize that everything will at some "point" cause us to have to make a choice.

But with that being said I hope that we will give each other that free will to decide how to use these tools. Will it be for positive or negative purposes? That is increasingly difficult to determine I think. One similar tool that I have used is Chief Architect software to assist in home design. It is not nearly as complex as this AI software but it is similar in that it allows us to visualize and expand on our basic concepts.

This "mind-blowing" software specifically requires one to allow access to our individual creativity and in turn draw on others' creativity. Also, I think it may be an infringement legally to use Van Gogh, Da Vinci, or any other artist's works to compile the final results.

But, of course, since there are no restraints currently we may have to admit the results are an amazing collection of the collective imagination.
 
Well, my question is if it is just AI where does this "will" to take over come from? Perhaps "soul imprint"? This is a very interesting subject for me.
I might've not been precise enough in my speech, what I should've said is that this is what AI is designed to take over... so a human, perhaps inspired from without, designed AI to take over that process, that is what I meant.


But with that being said I hope that we will give each other that free will to decide how to use these tools. Will it be for positive or negative purposes? That is increasingly difficult to determine I think. One similar tool that I have used is Chief Architect software to assist in home design. It is not nearly as complex as this AI software but it is similar in that it allows us to visualize and expand on our basic concepts.
well, I think this is just the case, it is out of free will that these tools need to be used, no one can be forced to do this.. it wouldn't be effective in changing the paradigm. AI is here to stay and it'll become part of more and more aspects of our existence, the best we can hope is to make as good an informed decision as we can, and as knowledgable a choice as we can muster.
 
Well, I think that's the crux of the matter, AI can never be creative as a human can be creative... but it can emulate the results with high fidelity, so as to supplant it. Breaking art down to its components and replicating it.

And yes, as of today, AI is merely a tool, and as such for now it will do only what it is commissioned to do, but all along it's learning. And the question becomes how much will the artist begin to pass on to the machine. I personally use rendering software a lot, and that is passing painting to a machine that does it in seconds, so I understand the AI as a tool to make life more efficient, but I am selling the renderings as renderings and no one is trying to convince themselves that they're real life, nor am I allowing the software to design what is being rendered.

I totally agree, unless the AI is sentient and can receive "inspiration" to create from DCM. After all where do humans get their creativity from? Are we not machines ourselves, but with a soul and a connection to DCM, which is where I believe creativity comes from, through us not from us, if that makes sense?

Again I agree, if you want make something exactly as you see it in your mind then make it yourself, thats why Ai wont replace human artists altogether, it can't' read your mind and it can't "create" only modify and copy and combine (atm)

for me the point is the randomness of it, the not knowing what you are going to get, and then, at least for me, to change things to suit what I am doing. I change the face for example and use a photograph I've taken of a model, then I'll add other elements, do some colour grading etc

I think we've come to a point beyond that, where we went from printing art created by a human.. to allow the machine to create the art piece and then print it, cutting off the human entirely.

Yes indeed, this is happening, question is, will be people want it? Will they pay for it?
Also, yes, I'm sure there are people who are trying to pass AI art off as their own creations, trying to dupe people that they created it. Sure, there are always going to be people who take advantage as with any technology. Question is, does it matter to the people buying it? If the person says this is AI then it's a choice whether to buy it or not, if they pretend it's their own work then it's based on a a lie, which is detrimental, I agree! But what makes it AI or not, how much of it is AI generated and how much is a composite.

And I don't know if I entirely agree with the removal from the artist because of the medium, if I listen to a song on my phone, or my car.. I still connect to the musician, sometimes unconsciously, on the other side. So long as the medium remains a passive delivery method, I think the connection can remain, it's when the medium expands and takes more roles from the artist that the connection gets lost.

Perhaps put another way, and since you're a musician yourself, how much of your music would you be comfortable with, if parts of it were created by an AI that simply composed something after you wrote a few lines on a computer screen? Again, mixing, and post production, equalizing, recording.. it will all be done by machines, but those remain passive. It's the composition part of the music that is yours, that others connect to when they listen to it through whatever medium, and that is what AI is aiming to take over.

I tend to agree, but it is a point worth considering IMO, what is the point of separation? How will we know? Does it actually matter to most people? Do they actually care who or what creates art as long as they "like" it? All questions I'm pretty sure we will find out soon enough, as the AI thing is only getting stronger.
I guess one could also argue that most of what passes for music (in the mainstream charts) is pretty formulaic/robotic and in some cases very AI based. Take for example the recent signing of the AI rapper to capitol records, the record company did drop the "artist" a few days later, but not because of the AI but because it was misappropriating black artists!? Capitol Records Signs Synthetic Rapper FN Meka to a Record Deal - Voicebot.ai

Unfortunately this is already happening, and will be more so in the near future from what I understand. For me personally, I use AI when i mix and master (the plugins these days have a lot of AI built into them) and to be honest it saves me time rather than spending days fine tuning EQ settings, but never for creating the music! Having said that, sometimes when using an arpeggiator, I'll hit the random button to see what it does, (which is computer generated) does that count?

To be clear, I understand your point, and I agree, the only thing that will stop AI taking over the "arts" is if people don't buy it, don't watch it, don't listen to it. But as always I think there will always be a place for human art, there will always be those people who want their art to connect, but sadly IMO, a lot of people consume art, as it were, and not necessarily appreciate it.

The other side of this, is people like myself who use it a s a tool, I combine AI with my own art (photography)/film) and use it to promote my other art (music). Am I taking away from an artist by doing this, no, because I have always done my own and if AI didn't exist I would still be doing my own, it would just take longer and in all honesty require more effort. If I didn't use it what difference would it make? is that what we are saying here, that we shouldn't be using it? I am open to discussion about this, if someone can give me a good reason not to!
 
The other side of this, is people like myself who use it a s a tool, I combine AI with my own art (photography)/film) and use it to promote my other art (music). Am I taking away from an artist by doing this, no, because I have always done my own and if AI didn't exist I would still be doing my own, it would just take longer and in all honesty require more effort. If I didn't use it what difference would it make? is that what we are saying here, that we shouldn't be using it? I am open to discussion about this, if someone can give me a good reason not to!
No, I don't think the case is being made for AI not to be used as a blanket statement, as I said above and as it has been established, AI, much like cellphones is a tool, that does tend to replace several aspects of what a human being used to do, and that has the tendency to erase the human from the equation of interactions, but it could also be simply the way of progression.

We meet on zoom these days, and one could make the case that it is replacing in person meetings, zoom isn't evil, it's a tool. So long as one understands that, then one is ok IMO, it's the danger of assuming that because of the fidelity the tool produces, it replaces what it facilitates, human interaction.

Does that make sense?

I believe the conversation taking place here is mostly philosophical, in an attempt to understand the implications of the AI becoming so prevalent in society, and particularly in the art industry. But it is a tool that is here to stay, and as such, it's the awareness of it that makes the difference.

I tend to agree, but it is a point worth considering IMO, what is the point of separation? How will we know? Does it actually matter to most people? Do they actually care who or what creates art as long as they "like" it? All questions I'm pretty sure we will find out soon enough, as the AI thing is only getting stronger.
this is impossible to answer, as it is so particular to the individual. But there is a level of nostalgia when considering the implications, imagine what you felt the first time your heart broke, and you listened to a sad song that simply "got you", it got you because the artist on the other side, spoke to you and what you were feeling. Some people might grow up without that, or an AI version of that.

Also, yes, I'm sure there are people who are trying to pass AI art off as their own creations, trying to dupe people that they created it. Sure, there are always going to be people who take advantage as with any technology. Question is, does it matter to the people buying it? If the person says this is AI then it's a choice whether to buy it or not, if they pretend it's their own work then it's based on a a lie, which is detrimental, I agree! But what makes it AI or not, how much of it is AI generated and how much is a composite.
again, very particular.. but yes if there's a demand for it, there will be a supply.. regardless of the level of AI, I think.

for me the point is the randomness of it, the not knowing what you are going to get, and then, at least for me, to change things to suit what I am doing. I change the face for example and use a photograph I've taken of a model, then I'll add other elements, do some colour grading etc
right, so it's a new tool that has interesting implications, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, or wanting to experiment with it. and if it frees up your time, then great. I don't think anyone is denying that, it would be like denying that a vehicle is more comfortable and a faster way to travel than a horse. AI is technology, a tool that has its uses. But much like with a car, it has its risks. Or fast food, convenient, fast, cheap, and it does the job, but it will never be a home cooked meal.

And the risks, are the crux of the conversation we're having at the moment. So, noting wrong with experimenting with it, to reiterate, it's self awareness that makes the difference, the how it's done and not the what is done.

But, yes, I do think that it is ultimately an individual choice, and everyone will fall in different places over it, and that's fine IMO. If it comes down to art, it's also very particular, and some might be ok with a shallower connection and some might need a deeper one with the artist, or most will swindle between states at different points in their lives. I don't think there's a right or wrong way to go about it.
 
But, yes, I do think that it is ultimately an individual choice, and everyone will fall in different places over it, and that's fine IMO.

Perhaps what we are contemplating with AI is similar to what happened with covid. That is, there was a schism, a separation of people who saw the truth and others who followed and accepted the lie. How is it that they accepted the lie? For fear of: not being able to travel, not being able to work, not being able to buy, not being able to sell, not wanting to leave their comfort zone.

AI is a tool, and that's fine, but there will be a separation between people who will use it ethically and those who will not.

Is it possible that AI is one of the many deceptions that God sends to test people?
 
To be clear, I understand your point, and I agree, the only thing that will stop AI taking over the "arts" is if people don't buy it, don't watch it, don't listen to it. But as always I think there will always be a place for human art, there will always be those people who want their art to connect, but sadly IMO, a lot of people consume art, as it were, and not necessarily appreciate it.
I am glad you said that @987baz because it is in a way a subtle difference that causes some of us to appreciate the older technologies and the efforts that went into producing beautiful and memorable music and art creations OSIT.

I think going to hear a musician live will always be in demand but that is as you are saying a matter of taste and appreciation.

My son plays the guitar and started playing electric guitars but later started appreciating acoustic guitars for their inherent sound qualities.

Strangely, I became interested in the newer technology of electric guitars and amps. It is the special effects that cannot really be produced on an acoustic guitar that intrigued me. You can even blend acoustic guitar effects with digital so I see what you are saying.

With that said I love the older instruments (which are not that primitive when you take a closer look).

Another interesting thing for me is the whole digital vs analog arguments that happen.

The Cs really got my attention when they were asked about the difference.

Session 7 May 2016
(L) I'm not terribly interested in this other bunch of questions... Lemme move to this one:
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I found this article that sums up a widespread belief about digital vs analog audio, IE CD vs turntable.

I have tested many thousands of phonograph recordings made over a period of more than eighty years, and have found that almost most examples have been therapeutic, often highly so.[3] In 1979 this changed. I suddenly found that I was not achieving the same therapeutic results as before, that playing records of the same compositions to the same patients was producing a completely contrary effect! Instead of their stress being reduced and their Life Energy being actuated, the opposite was occurring! For instance, music that I had long used to promote sleep now seemed to be actually aggravating the insomnia. I found in one case that instead of the music helping a patient withdraw from tranquilizers, it seemed to increase his need for them. Special tapes for businesspeople to use during their rest periods seemed suddenly to increase rather than reduce their stress. These findings were very alarming.

When I investigated these and many other paradoxical phenomena, I found that in all cases they were related to the use of digital recordings. These were vinyl records (and later CDs) made from digital masters.[4] When I substituted analog versions of the same work, sometimes even with the same performers, the positive therapeutic effects were again obtained. There seemed to me little doubt that something was “wrong” with the digital process. Apparently the digital recording technique not only did not enhance Life Energy and reduce stress, but it was actually untherapeutic; that is, it imposed a stress and reduced Life Energy. Through some mechanism, some severely detrimental effect on the Acupuncture Emotional System, the digital process was somehow reversing the therapeutic effects of the music!

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A: If one is depending on a 3rd density effect, analog is best. If one is attempting to tap higher or "other" realms, digital is more likely to capture the effect.

Q: (L) So if you just want a 3rd density thing like giving somebody drugs or something, you use something analog like records that deliver actual physical vibrations or whatever to the individual. But if you're trying to capture or transmit other realms or other-density effects and so forth, then digital is better. Let's face it, if you're trying to make a recording of ghosts for example, and you leave some kind of recording device in a haunted house and it is supposed to make a record, that would require a kind of cross-density type of energy that would be pretty momentous, I think. It's mechanical. So mechanical effects happen with analog. Digital can be very subtle, electromagnetic...

(Joe) It can be more easily used to convey non-3d stuff.
I am wondering if digital technology is more of a symptom of moving toward 4D. If that is the case maybe we should not be necessarily fearful of the technology but very aware of the goals to achieve with it.
 
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AI is a tool, and that's fine, but there will be a separation between people who will use it ethically and those who will not.
Agreed, but the same could be said for just about anything!

The Cs really got my attention when they were asked about the difference.

I am wondering if digital technology is more of a symptom of moving toward 4D. If that is the case maybe we should not be necessarily fearful of the technology but very aware of the goals to achieve with it.
Interesting find there mate, I didn't remember that session!

We meet on zoom these days, and one could make the case that it is replacing in person meetings, zoom isn't evil, it's a tool. So long as one understands that, then one is ok IMO, it's the danger of assuming that because of the fidelity the tool produces, it replaces what it facilitates, human interaction.

Does that make sense?
Yes I am following you, it does make sense.

Maybe that separation is part of the agenda? Zoom, for instance due to covid has allowed people to be more separate, to work from home and for meetings to now take place (in a work scenario) remotely. Social media is exactly the same, we can sit on a twitter or instagram or facebook all day interacting with people virtually, but not physically, thus limiting in person interactions. We view peoples lives remotely, which, is mainly a lie, because we only see what they want us to see, an edited version. By limiting our in person interactions maybe they hope to destroy our human bonds even more so, you only have to look at recent articles pertaining to smart cities and these 20km radiuses, covid and soon to be climate lockdowns, seems to be a lot about separating people?

this is impossible to answer, as it is so particular to the individual. But there is a level of nostalgia when considering the implications, imagine what you felt the first time your heart broke, and you listened to a sad song that simply "got you", it got you because the artist on the other side, spoke to you and what you were feeling. Some people might grow up without that, or an AI version of that.

Quite possibly yes, replacing it with a "generic" interpretation of what an AI "thinks", in this case as heartbreak and sadness. And I do agree that it is sad. Although, one could argue that most of what passes for music (or art for that matter) these days is not about connection, it's about making money and elevating status? And I am here talking about the the "big artists" who are beholden to their backers. For me it seems that the independent artists are the ones who are the true creatives, for they have nothing to lose by what they are doing?

Also, is it a way of manipulating people into a more "mechanical" emotional state? Maybe it has to do with the the left brain right brain idea discussed elsewhere? human = right, AI = left?

And the risks, are the crux of the conversation we're having at the moment. So, noting wrong with experimenting with it, to reiterate, it's self awareness that makes the difference, the how it's done and not the what is done.

But, yes, I do think that it is ultimately an individual choice, and everyone will fall in different places over it, and that's fine IMO. If it comes down to art, it's also very particular, and some might be ok with a shallower connection and some might need a deeper one with the artist, or most will swindle between states at different points in their lives. I don't think there's a right or wrong way to go about it.

So if i understand you here, if you know how it works then it has less power over you?

Yes, agreed, it comes down to the individual, there is no right or wrong, but as with all things, knowing and context.
 
I am following how this whole AI thing is developing and I see that things are not only getting rough. People are already taking positions. As I said, people are dividing.

We are the Concept Art Association, an advocacy organization for artists working in entertainment. Our board member, Karla Ortiz, has been one of the leaders in our industry fighting back against the unethical practices happening in the AI text-to-image space. As an organization and as individuals we deeply care about this issue, not just for those actively working as visual artists, but for future generations of artists and for the preservation of our creative industries. But before we dive into our plan…
 
Another interesting thing for me is the whole digital vs analog arguments that happen.

The Cs really got my attention when they were asked about the difference.
I am wondering if digital technology is more of a symptom of moving toward 4D. If that is the case maybe we should not be necessarily fearful of the technology but very aware of the goals to achieve with it.

I thought that thing the C's said about digital being more likely to capture higher density effects was really interesting yeah.. Since the question was specifically in the context of audio, maybe (part of?) the reason for this is that digital audio can contain much higher frequencies than analogue media like records or tape are able to store/reproduce?

eg cassette tapes can store maybe up to around 15khz, 20khz with the very highest end equipment.. vinyl records I think can go much higher, but actually reproducing those frequencies would depend greatly on the gear used.. I did a quick search and read that realistically they wouldn't be reproducing much higher than around 20khz. CDs are 44.1khz... digital recording devices now go up to 192khz (or higher? I'm out of date).. So, don't know if the C's were only talking about frequency range...there's probably much more to it... but, interesting!
 
So, don't know if the C's were only talking about frequency range...there's probably much more to it... but, interesting!

It's not just the frequency. It's how much information or packets of information you can compress into a digital medium. For example the Digital Terrestrial Television where in the same signal when sending data digitally (zeros and ones) can carry several channels of video and audio at the same time.

Thus, it is conceivable to think that in higher realities the information is more condensed so to speak
 
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