Men?

[Ruth]

The difference between a person's individual behaviour and general (or average) behaviour is quite staggering.

In general, women are (or wish to be) selective about who they have children with. They have a vested interest in being selective (for a variety of reasons, not all of them to do with genetics).

In general men aren't that selective about who they have sex with (an act which may or may not produce children). They have a vested interest in being indescriminate. They also have a greater sex drive because of the hormone testosterone.

That's in general at a very basic level.....then...

Society gets involved - which can change peoples behaviour

Also, free will can change peoples behaviour.

The blue print is still there, regardless of society, free will and any other genetic or environmental annomalies thrown up that will change outcomes for individuals. :D In fact, I'm not sure if it even has any relationship with things like karma, social forces or free will or individuality of any kind.

 

[Amanecer]

These emotional circuits are real and exist in the billions of women in varying degrees and yes I accept that women can use logic and reason to determine a course of action but often they are instead used to rationalize the action after the fact.

Definition of Emotions- subjectively experienced as strong feeling and physiologically involving changes that prepare the body for immediate vigorous action, to stir up, etc.

Hormones provide the fuel for emotions.

Estrogen and progesterone are dominant in women and produce global and fluctuating emotions in her, (crying, moodiness,etc)
Testosterone is predominant in men. Responsible for a high sex drive and violence.


Unfortunately, in general, most men do not use logic and reason for their actions (rape, promiscuity, war, torture, sexual molestation, abuse) ..they rationalize the action after the fact


Men are pretty emotional after all. All depends on which point in the universe you are viewing it from.

.

 

[anart]

The difference between a person's individual behaviour and general (or average) behaviour is quite staggering.

In general, women are (or wish to be) selective about who they have children with. They have a vested interest in being selective (for a variety of reasons, not all of them to do with genetics).

This generalization ignores the fact that not all women are selective - not by a long shot - so we're back to the whole 'sweeping statement' thing, only this time in a way that casts a negative light on men, or so it seems.

In general men aren't that selective about who they have sex with (an act which may or may not produce children). They have a vested interest in being indescriminate. They also have a greater sex drive because of the hormone testosterone.

This generalization ignores the fact that some men are very selective, and that some women have equal to or greater sex drives than men - so we're back to the whole 'sweeping statement' thing - which is limiting to say the least.

That's in general at a very basic level.....then...

Society gets involved - which can change peoples behaviour

Also, free will can change peoples behaviour.

The blue print is still there, regardless of society, free will and any other genetic or environmental annomalies thrown up that will change outcomes for individuals. :D In fact, I'm not sure if it even has any relationship with things like karma, social forces or free will or individuality of any kind.

Yes, but stating that it's a general statement does not excuse the presentation of that statement as fact.

These sort of limiting generalizations about male and female behavior and sexuality do not further any understanding of the reality of the situation, osit.

Apologies, but as much as I had to question the generalizations that were made earlier about women, I absolutely have to point out that this post is just as narrow minded. Also, stating that society and free will are what change the, as you put it, 'basic blueprint' behavior is extremely misleading. Society does not change the 'basic blueprint' - society IS the 'basic blueprint', and from my understanding, free will can be utilized to learn, which may, with a lot of hard work, change the 'basic blueprint', but free will alone can change nothing. FWIW.

 

[Ruth]

Yes, but stating that it's a general statement does not excuse the presentation of that statement as fact.

Well, as long as you are never apraised to the 'general'; you will never be appraised to the 'specific', no-one you will ever know the difference. Sweeping or not.

These sort of limiting generalizations about male and female behavior and sexuality do not further any understanding of the reality of the situation, osit.

Half the time thinking of no use anyway. Because most of it makes no sense anyway. Most of the time, I'd rather give up anyway. I'm happy you're so sure. Maybe 'thinking' is where its at. Not sure it moves a person from place to place though.

 

[CarpeDiem]

In general, women are (or wish to be) selective about who they have children with. They have a vested interest in being selective (for a variety of reasons, not all of them to do with genetics).

Why not give men a benefit of a doubt that they also may have a vested interest in whom they procreate with???

In general men aren't that selective about whom they have sex with (an act which may or may not produce children). They have a vested interest in being indiscriminate. They also have a greater sex drive because of the hormone testosterone. That's in general at a very basic level.....then... Society gets involved - which can change peoples behavior. Also, free will can change people's behavior. The blue print is still there, regardless of society, free will and any other genetic or environmental anomalies thrown up that will change outcomes for individuals. In fact, I'm not sure if it even has any relationship with things like karma, social forces or free will or individuality of any kind.

Do you have any data to back up your statement about "in general" women sexual selectiveness and "in general" men unselectiveness in sexual relationships? Some statistics would be helpful to relate to your statement here. Is your "general" applied to some country, in particular, some religion, or to whole BBM population in general? Or is it your personal opinion or experience with the opposite sex, I wonder?
If I were to state my personal experience and observations of people I came to know in this lifetime, all of them, regardless of whether they are men or women are quite discriminate in sexual relationships, at least of what I observed. I didn't notice any gender-related propensity or bias to sexual promiscuity in any of my friends or people I know. Maybe I just am "from another Earth", so my mother likes to tell me all the time. May be your generalization about men is based on very negative personal experience, sorry for that.
At least men I know (as friends, co-workers) are very selective in their choice of a partner.

Half the time thinking of no use anyway. Because most of it makes no sense anyway. Most of the time, I'd rather give up anyway. I'm happy you're so sure. Maybe 'thinking' is where its at. Not sure it moves a person from place to place though

?

 

[Millie]

In this lifetime of me... I always knew I did not want to start another human life form.
No human biological urge. No forces making me.
The last thing I would want at this earth's time is to make more babies.
In fact, I cannot understand why other females want babies. That is what they want - babies. Do they not understand that a baby will grow to be a human being?

So, stop wanting babies, get a lovely pet and look after it really well and lovingly.

I am quite amazed that this forum actually has the male versus female debate in the first place. I was really hoping that here we are past all that.
We all know that we are one. I was really hoping a lot , so much, that we know our spiritual side and don't go backwards into the male and female silly war stuff.
Cos this is just about the best forum I have come across in my searchings.

Some people may believe in "programming" of m/f, but I hope that here we are all beyond that.

Thanks for letting me share!

 

[Amanecer]

I think that it is obvious that men and women are "opposite" in a variety of ways. I think our world is full of polarities; men/women, day/night, tree/roots, good/evil, just to name a few. I believe that all these polarities in our 3rd density life are trying to send us a message. We are not "complete" beings. That which will complete us is the opposite of what we "see" in this world. There are strengths and weaknesses to be seen in each polarity. The sun provides energy and growth, the night provides rest and rejuvenation. A tree cannot reach to the sky, without roots to anchor it to the earth. I believe men and women hold different strengths and weaknesses that when viewed "together" represents our spiritual completeness. Two sides of a coin, (if you will) If we listen to the lies of our society, emotions, programs, etc. we will miss "seeing" what is true about ourselves.

Laura/Mouravieff says in SHOTW: "Man and woman once formed a single spiritual being - even if in separate bodies - endowed withthe unique consciousness of the real Self; the Being described in the myth of the Androgyne............If the Fall is a direct consequence of identifying with the "I" of personality, and the solitude of polar beings separated by the Fall ist the source of weakness in humans who have in this way become mortal, the return of Unity appears to be an inexhaustible source of new energies. These energies are necessary to man, and to restore the dangerously disturbed equilibrium of today's public and private life, he must seek them out.
It is through realization of the totally indivisible unity of their real "I" , by two polar Individualities arrived at the Second Birth, that the original sin can and must e redeemed."

So in my opinion, the real point isn't who is more logical, emotional, sexual, etc. etc.. The point is to view them as two parts of a much bigger "whole". One is not "better', smarter, etc. than the other. I do agree, unfortunately, that a lot of men and women seem to be living by emotional and societal "programming". It is our reality, and that is why I (and i assume) others are here on the forum.....to help each other transcend the confines of this life.

I would welcome other points of view on what I have written.....in case there is something I have missed.

 

[Alana]

Do they not understand that a baby will grow to be a human being?

Well, it's something for those women to hope for! :)

So, stop wanting babies, get a lovely pet and look after it really well and lovingly.

Is this one of the commandments? The 31st one? ;)

I am quite amazed that this forum actually has the male versus female debate in the first place. I was really hoping that here we are past all that.

I didn't read this threat as a male/female debate. In fact i read suggestions that made me reflect on the nature of things and challenge my own perspective on the gender issue. Yes, there were generalizations, but the conversation brought this up, and is a reflection of the male/female programming that a person undergoes from his/her cradle. Now, if like you claim, you are over it, please, by all means, 6 billion people are waiting for the recipe!

We all know that we are one.

I don't KNOW this personally. I am not one within myself even!

Cos this is just about the best forum I have come across in my searchings.

If that is true, why then am i reading your statement as judgment towards the content discussed here, and the members involved in the discussion? Plus a judgment towards women who wished for and did have children!

It might be my problemating reading instrument of course, which welcomes feedback.

 

[Adaryn]

Cos this is just about the best forum I have come across in my searchings.

If that is true, why then am i reading your statement as judgment towards the content discussed here, and the members involved in the discussion? Plus a judgment towards women who wished for and did have children!

It might be my problemating reading instrument of course, which welcomes feedback.

I don't think you had a problem with your reading instrument here. I have the same feeling as you. My own impression is that Millie's post was judgemental and gross.
In fact I found that kind of statement :

So, stop wanting babies, get a lovely pet and look after it really well and lovingly.

quite offensive and it irritated me (but, THAT is probably my own subjectivity at work here).
NB: not that I'm the kind to promote people to have babies (plus, that's the kind of sentence I could have said 10 years ago... and probably said :)). That's a personal business and choice, nobody should tell anybody that they must/mustn't have children !

 

[Keit]

I also agree that it was over judgmental post and out of place (or off topic). Especially when she said that she can't understand why woman want children anyway. But as a woman who also has no urge what so ever to have children, I can understand her "runt". It's hard to live in the society where it is expected from women to bring child into this world (and those who already have children can't get the idea of not wanting one). And in lot of cases it's expected and wanted for a wrong reasons (IMHO). It's a huge responsibility to bring new life into this world, and I think that this is the most selfish thing to do (or even a crime) if the reasons are: biological clock is ticking; it's expected; this particular woman can't find anything else to do with her time (cheaper to get a pet ;) or a child is some sort of necessary glue in the relationship. There are too many people walking on this planet who are psychologically broken or hurt because their parents didn't want them or weren't willing to give everything they had. And there are definitely women that shouldn't be mothers (maybe because they also were hurt in some way). It should be a matter of free will.

 

[manitoban]

I don't think you had a problem with your reading instrument here. I have the same feeling as you. My own impression is that Millie's post was judgemental and gross.
In fact I found that kind of statement :


So, stop wanting babies, get a lovely pet and look after it really well and lovingly.

quite offensive and it irritated me (but, THAT is probably my own subjectivity at work here).

My reading instrument is in agreement with yours, I felt the exact same way upon reading Millie's post.

Keit has made a good point as well. Although I do have a child, I have many friends who have chosen not to have children and the pressure they receive from family, friends and society to change their mind is quite depressing. I agree that it should be a matter of personal choice/free will .

 

[knowledge_of_self]

I'm sorry, but am I the only one who is having a hard time understanding what Ruth is saying here?

Yes, but stating that it's a general statement does not excuse the presentation of that statement as fact.

Well, as long as you are never apraised to the 'general'; you will never be appraised to the 'specific', no-one you will ever know the difference. Sweeping or not.

These sort of limiting generalizations about male and female behavior and sexuality do not further any understanding of the reality of the situation, osit.

Ruth's reply

Half the time thinking of no use anyway.

Does this mean thinking is of no use to anyone?

Because most of it makes no sense anyway. Most of the time, I'd rather give up anyway.

So, since thinking is hard and it is hard to study and think about the learning process, you would rather give up and go back to your daily routine?

I'm happy you're so sure. Maybe 'thinking' is where its at. Not sure it moves a person from place to place though.

Yes, thinking is a good thing to do before you do anything. It stops a person from being mechanical. I'm really not sure what you mean as to "Not sure it moves a person from place to place though".

Nina

 

[knowledge_of_self]

I am also in agreement with Irini and Keit regarding Millie's post and a woman's choice of having a baby. I for one have also chosen not to have kids so far, and am not planning on it anytime soon. Especially considering the fact of raising a child in the conditions this world is in, and the harsher conditions it will be facing. Also I find it that before I can teach a child anything, I have to first know my self and grow up my self which I do not think I have done so, at least to the level of becoming a mother.

Millie, this is what i picked up from your post.

I am quite amazed that this forum actually has the male versus female debate in the first place. I was really hoping that here we are past all that.
We all know that we are one.

Which sounds (to me) like someone who has come to many realizations about the gender issue and stating "we all know that we are one" which seems you are stating as a matter of fact. And in my searching I have come to see the opposite of this world regarding the gender issue. This world programs people to see differences within each other and to act based on those differences.

This world programs many men to think women are objects. In fact this world programs us all to think many people and beings are objects, like our children and animals. So when you say

So, stop wanting babies, get a lovely pet and look after it really well and lovingly.

you sound (to me) as someone who does not understand the meaning of the word 'love' (like many in this world) You sound to me as someone who understands love in the most subjective way of possession. "Stop having babies and go get a lovely pet" somehow objectifies animals as ours to own as children. Imo animals are not children. Animals are our companions. In fact, in my research I have come to think having an animal as a 'pet' a lot of times violates the freewill of the animal to be an animal and to be free as an animal, to follow the course of its nature. I am actually open to opinions on this subject as it is something I have been thinking of recently.

Just my thoughts,
Nina

 

[Millie]

I am also in agreement with Irini and Keit regarding Millie's post and a woman's choice of having a baby. I for one have also chosen not to have kids so far, and am not planning on it anytime soon. Especially considering the fact of raising a child in the conditions this world is in, and the harsher conditions it will be facing. Also I find it that before I can teach a child anything, I have to first know my self and grow up my self which I do not think I have done so, at least to the level of becoming a mother.

Millie, this is what i picked up from your post.

I am quite amazed that this forum actually has the male versus female debate in the first place. I was really hoping that here we are past all that.
We all know that we are one.

Which sounds (to me) like someone who has come to many realizations about the gender issue and stating "we all know that we are one" which seems you are stating as a matter of fact. And in my searching I have come to see the opposite of this world regarding the gender issue. This world programs people to see differences within each other and to act based on those differences.

This world programs many men to think women are objects. In fact this world programs us all to think many people and beings are objects, like our children and animals. So when you say

So, stop wanting babies, get a lovely pet and look after it really well and lovingly.

you sound (to me) as someone who does not understand the meaning of the word 'love' (like many in this world) You sound to me as someone who understands love in the most subjective way of possession. "Stop having babies and go get a lovely pet" somehow objectifies animals as ours to own as children. Imo animals are not children. Animals are our companions. In fact, in my research I have come to think having an animal as a 'pet' a lot of times violates the freewill of the animal to be an animal and to be free as an animal, to follow the course of its nature. I am actually open to opinions on this subject as it is something I have been thinking of recently.

Just my thoughts,
Nina

Nina, I find it hard to believe that so many people are just not understanding what I meant. The way the world is today, I would not bring a child into this world.

The Australian govt. are paying $4000. for all single teens to bring a kid into this world. To me, that means cannon fodder. Kind of like they are waiting for the next war, and all the poor/ financially disadvantaged kids will all be just like in irauqi, nowadays. Future deaths. Everywhere I look, I see babies/kids ready for the next war.

Re the 'pets'. I only rescue cats, and they need to be looked after. Or else the rescue centre has to kill them. If only people would neuter their pets. then there would not be so many ... that may die.. just after they have been born.

Also, I do not think humans are above animals, just because we are top of the "food chain", that is only because humans have guns . I would like to see a human face to face with a tiger or hippo, the human would be the worse off.

Humans cannot take wild animals without weapons.
But a human can save a cat from being destroyed (killed), if they love the "pet" and save it.

In Nursing Homes, cats and dogs mean so much to the elderly. A stroke of fur can help so much.

To me, animals are totally equal to humans. Humans are so above themselves and need to learn that we are all equal.


One more thing, to judge another is to judge yourself. I dont think I was , but who can say? If I did, it was not meant like that, but I was sure surprised by the others judging comments. But I don't hold any grudges. :)

I am still saying thanks again , for this forum.

My cat would have been killed if I didn't save it. But I know that somehow, she willed me, to come to her. She probably means a thousand times more to me, than she knows.
Me saving her was meant to be. She actually saved me.

And this is meant to be a man thread.

I am with Jung on this one. We are all m/f and all should realise our m/f.

Thanks Knowledge, for being patient and not judging, giving me a chance to answer back.

I know that everyone that judges is actually judging themselves, and they perceived me as judging, none of that from me was meant to sound like that.

I got off on the wrong foot.
:0
Well, smilies to everyone

 

[joejoeba]

Is that another false sense of security for me to walk into??