Mehran Keshe and Keshe Foundation Game Changer or Scam?

[Divide by Zero]

For the same reason I would not trust channeling done alone - not even by me. I KNOW the mind's ability to fool itself and to produce phenomena to back up belief. That sounds like what is happening with you.

That very well could be what 'possession' is, after what Data posted on dopamine/reward centers and taking into account how our beliefs shape what we see. Amazingly scary!

 

[Ennio]

That very well could be what 'possession' is, after what Data posted on dopamine/reward centers and taking into account how our beliefs shape what we see. Amazingly scary!

Or obsession. While it can be good to have hobbies, interests or areas that we like to focus on, research, etc. it also behooves us to put the interest into some perspective. We don't want to get so stuck or fixated that, with the limited time we have, we miss out on the opportunity to learn or do something that truly adds to ourselves (and hopefully to others). Reminds me of this:

Q: (L) I just want to be sure that the source that I am acquiring the knowledge from is not a deceptive source.

A: If you simply have faith, no knowledge that you could possibly acquire could possibly be false because there is no such thing. Anyone or anything that tries to give you false knowledge, false information, will fail. The very material substance that the knowledge takes on, since it is at the root of all existence, will protect you from absorption of false information which is not knowledge. There is no need to fear the absorption of false information when you are simply openly seeking to acquire knowledge. And knowledge forms the protection -- all the protection you could ever need.

Q: (L) There are an awful lot of people who are being open and trusting and having faith who are getting zapped and knocked on their rears.

A: No. That is simply your perception. What you are failing to perceive is that these people are not really gathering knowledge. These people are stuck at some point in their pathway to progress and they are undergoing a hidden manifestation of what is referred to in your terms as obsession. Obsession is not knowledge, obsession is stagnation. So, when one becomes obsessed, one actually closes off the absorption and the growth and the progress of soul development which comes with the gaining of true knowledge. For when one becomes obsessed one deteriorates the protection therefore one is open to problems, to tragedies, to all sorts of difficulties. Therefore one experiences same.

So, Richard, if this thread discussion is a reflection of your stagnating (and it looks like it is) do you have any ideas as to how you can re-direct your focus and energies? Are there other areas of knowledge you're interested in acquiring, or brushing up on, and bringing up from time to time?

 

[Konstantin]

I watched some youtube videos about Keshe Life pen for the first time. I'm involved with electricity and electronics my whole life.
I'm surprised how can somebody put so much personal energy in this.
Its just coil of burned copper wire .
They call burned copper coil a nano coating ??
And that somehow produces some kind of magnetic pulse of plasma. How can it produces magnetic field or a plasma when its not powered by any power source.
Its just a burned copper coil in a tube, nothing more, or I am missing something ?
As much as I know electrotechnical principals and laws this Keshe life pen looks to me like a total nonsense.
I'm open to new and alternative ideas but in this one i cant find any logical conclusion.

 

[Konstantin]

And here are some more red flags about this Keshe

_http://prepareforchange.net/2016/03/04/keshe-investigation-by-the-people/

Keshe Whistleblower Sousan Alexander from Hope Moore on Vimeo.

_https://vimeo.com/157722744

(the video is also available for download from the site)

Keshe Whistleblower Sousan Alexander
Sousan followed Keshe for years. She invested in the tech. She became a student of the Keshe Institute. She then invested her own money to travel to Italy to see the Keshe operation for herself.
She found a proxy operation and has exposed Keshe as a Fraud. She has come forward to give her testimony to help prevent others from losing hundreds or thousands of dollars on Keshe products that will never arrive and don’t work.
Her testimony took place over 4 youtube videos, mixed in with other conversations.
We have condensed her testimony into one video here to make it easier to follow and hear the information she has to share. The audio is a little shaky in several places, but it clears up shortly.

And this one

_http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20313-keshe-fraud-fraud-super-plasma-coated-fraud.html

 

[luc]

If you want to see for yourself if it works the best thing is to make one as described in the numerous utube videos online and try it. In that case, 'scientific orthodoxy' would be irrelevant. I have used it several times with pain relief. So, I personally know it works.

Well, then does this mean that when you said "the topic is dead in the waters for me", you didn't really mean it? Or only in the sense that you won't bring it up here, but still spend time on it?

To me, too, it seems this topic is quite an obsession for you. Again, you might ask yourself the question how much time in total you have spent on this topic (consuming information, thinking, building etc.) during the last 12 months, and ask yourself what else you could have been doing with this time - improving other areas of your life, being of service etc.

I think such obsessions can make us blind, and this is a dangerous path to go down - every time we lie to ourselves and others, we strengthen that particular 'groove' in our brains, which then leads to more lying, not only about this particular topic but all other areas of life as well. That's why it's so important to break such blindness IMO.

You might want to consider this from Political Ponerology:

Reversive blockade: Emphatically insisting upon something which is the opposite of the truth blocks the average person’s mind from perceiving the truth. In accordance with the dictates of healthy common sense, he starts searching for meaning in the “golden mean” between the truth and its opposite, winding up with some satisfactory counterfeit. People who think like this do not realize that this effect is precisely the intent of the person who subjects them to this method. If the counterfeit of the truth is the opposite of a moral truth, at the same time, it simultaneously represents an extreme paramoralism, and bears its peculiar suggestiveness.

We rarely see this method being used by normal people; even if raised by the people who abused it; they usually only indicate its results in their characteristic difficulties in apprehending reality properly. Use of this method can be included within the above-mentioned special psychological knowledge developed by psychopaths concerning the weaknesses of human nature and the art of leading others into error. Where they are in rule, this method is used with virtuosity, and to an extent conterminous with their power.

Information selection and substitution: The existence of psychological phenomena known to pre-Freudian philosophical students of the subconscious bears repeating. Unconscious psychological processes outstrip conscious reasoning, both in time and in scope, which makes many psychological phenomena possible: including those generally described as conversive, such as subconscious blocking out of conclusions, the selection, and, also, substitution of seemingly uncomfortable premises.

We speak of blocking out conclusions if the inferential process was proper in principle and has almost arrived at a conclusion and final comprehension within the act of internal projection, but becomes stymied by a preceding directive from the subconscious, which considers it inexpedient or disturbing. This is primitive prevention of personality disintegration, which may seem advantageous; however, it also prevents all the advantages which could be derived from consciously elaborated conclusion and reintegration. A conclusion thus rejected remains in our subconscious and in a more unconscious way causes the next blocking and selection of this kind. This can be extremely harmful, progressively enslaving a person to his own subconscious, and is often accompanied by a feeling of tension and bitterness.

We speak of selection of premises whenever the feedback goes deeper into the resulting reasoning and from its database thus deletes and represses into the subconscious just that piece of information which was responsible for arriving at the uncomfortable conclusion. Our subconscious then permits further logical reasoning, except that the outcome will be erroneous in direct proportion to the actual significance of the repressed data. An ever-greater number of such repressed information is collected in our subconscious memory. Finally, a kind of habit seems to take over: similar material is treated the same way even if reasoning would have reached an outcome quite advantageous to the person.

The most complex process of this type is substitution of premises thus eliminated by other data, ensuring an ostensibly more comfortable conclusion. Our associative ability rapidly elaborates a new item to replace the removed one, but it is one leading to a comfortable conclusion. This operation takes the most time, and it is unlikely to be exclusively subconscious. Such substitutions are often effected collectively, in certain groups of people, through the use of verbal communication. That is why they best qualify for the moralizing epithet “hypocrisy” than either of the above-mentioned processes.

The above examples of conversive phenomena do not exhaust a problem richly illustrated in psychoanalytical works. Our subconscious may carry the roots of human genius within, but its operation is not perfect; sometimes it is reminiscent of a blind computer, especially whenever we allow it to be cluttered with anxiously rejected material. This explains why conscious monitoring, even at the price of courageously accepting disintegrative states, is likewise necessary to our nature, not to mention our individual and social good.

There is no such thing as a person whose perfect self-knowledge allows him to eliminate all tendencies toward conversive thinking, but some people are relatively close to this state, while others remain slaves to these processes. Those people who use conversive operations too often for the purpose of finding convenient conclusions, or constructing some cunning paralogistic or paramoralistic statements, eventually begin to undertake such behavior for ever more trivial reasons, losing the capacity for conscious control over their thought process altogether. This necessarily leads to behavior errors which must be paid for by others as well as themselves.

People who have lost their psychological hygiene and capacity of proper thought along this road also lose their natural critical faculties with regard to the statements and behavior of individuals whose abnormal thought processes were formed on a substratum of pathological anomalies, whether inherited or acquired. Hypocrites stop differentiating between pathological and normal individuals, thus opening an “infection entry” for the ponerologic role of pathological factors.

Also, the Cs talked about balance many times, and in my experience, this is crucially important. Obsessions of all kinds really wreck havoc to the balance in our lives and lead to a downward spiral, fast.

You could also re-read the chapter about spellbinders from PP - from where I sit, Keshe fits the profile - especially after I had a look at the video Konstantin posted. Geez, this looks like a prime example of a pathological, cult-like organisation!

Spellbinders

In order to comprehend ponerogenic pathways of contagion, especially those acting in a wider social context, let us observe the roles and personalities of individuals we shall call “spellbinders”, who are highly active in this area in spite of their statistically negligible number.

Spellbinders are generally the carriers of various pathological factors, some characteropathies, and some inherited anomalies. Individuals with malformations of their personalities frequently play similar roles, although the social scale of influence remains small (family or neighborhood) and does not cross certain boundaries of decency.

Spellbinders are characterized by pathological egotism. Such a person is forced by some internal causes to make an early choice between two possibilities: the first is forcing other people to think and experience things in a manner similar to his own; the second is a feeling of being lonely and different, a pathological misfit in social life. Sometimes the choice is either snake-charming or suicide.

Triumphant repression of self-critical or unpleasant concepts from the field of consciousness gradually gives rise to the phenomena of conversive thinking, or paralogistics, paramoralisms, and the use of reversion blockades. They stream so profusely from the mind and mouth of the spellbinder that they flood the average person’s mind. Everything becomes subordinated to the spellbinder’s over-compensatory conviction that they are exceptional, sometimes even messianic. An ideology emerges from this conviction, true in part, whose value is supposedly superior. However, if we analyze the exact functions of such an ideology in the spellbinder’s personality, we perceive that it is nothing other than a means of self-charming, useful for repressing those tormenting self-critical associations into the subconscious. The ideology’s instrumental role in influencing other people also serves the spellbinder’s needs.

The spellbinder believes that he will always find converts to his ideology, and most often, they are right. However, they feel shock (or even paramoral indignation) when it turns out that their influence extends to only a limited minority, while most people’s attitude to their activities remains critical, pained and disturbed. The spellbinder is thus confronted with a choice: either withdraw back into his void or strengthen his position by improving the effectiveness of his activities.

The spellbinder places on a high moral plane anyone who has succumbed to his influence and incorporated the experiential method he imposes. He showers such people with attention and property, if possible. Critics are met with “moral” outrage. It can even be proclaimed that the compliant minority is in fact the moral majority, since it professes the best ideology and honors a leader whose qualities are above average.

Such activity is always necessarily characterized by the inability to foresee its final results, something obvious from the psychological point of view because its substratum contains pathological phenomena, and both spellbinding and self-charming make it impossible to perceive reality accurately enough to foresee results logically. However, spellbinders nurture great optimism and harbor visions of future triumphs similar to those they enjoyed over their own crippled souls. It is also possible for optimism to be a pathological symptom.

...

 

[lainey]

I see. And do you have an solid scientific evidence that would lead you to theorize that heated coiled copper wires can be used to heal or stop pain?

If you want to see for yourself if it works the best thing is to make one as described in the numerous utube videos online and try it. In that case, 'scientific orthodoxy' would be irrelevant. I have used it several times with pain relief. So, I personally know it works.

I'm glad it helps you, but it's a grey area: science can be wrong and right here.

It can be wrong about technology that has not been discovered. We can not assume this.

But we do have the placebo effect that needs to be tested for. Just because it works for you and some people, but not others, would you say that those others are the ones that are not seeing objectively- or the ones who might have a placebo effect?

I agree that this whole thing seems like a scam; wishful thinking to boot. What DBZ said made me think of the H&W show that discussed the placebo effect:

Harrison: One of the last times I was on the show here, or on the truth perspective, I think I mentioned the phenomenon of induced lesions or burn marks in hypnosis. A trained hypnotist can actually convince a person to produce a burn mark on their skin and some types of lesions like this; but those cases are even rarer so it’s even harder to produce a lesion like that than it is just to hypnotise a person.
I think with this placebo effect, if you look at who benefits from it and who doesn’t then we are identifying some kind of difference between people, some identifiable groups within the human population. I think that it’s possible, if we were to understand what’s really going on with the placebo and actually research it and look at what’s actually going on and how to heighten or control the effect, it’s hard to say with any certainty but I think it’s definitely possible that it could be used on anyone of it was totally understood.
There may be a reason why certain people are less susceptible to it in its current form but if we knew more about it then it’s possible that giving that placebo in those conditions and with certain understanding then the placebo would have an effect. That’s just my guess.

Tiffany: Well Joe Dispenza gets into that in his book. He talks about hypnosis, as you mentioned Harrison, and how some people are more suggestible than other people. For the placebo effect to work, you have to really believe. Not just on a conscious level but on a subconscious level where it gets into how you see the world, what you think about yourself, what you think about other people, what you believe about how the world works, all of those things can affect whether or not you will benefit from a placebo. And not just that, but also how great of an effect you would get.
There was a study that he talked about in his book, a hypnotism study, where they were testing how suggestible people were. They narrowed it down to a handful of people and they had some of those people go to a restaurant and they gave them suggestions, like that they were very hot and they had to take their clothes off. Some of the people had already passed the test to say that they were suggestible in the first place but some of the people questioned it; their analytical minds got in the way and they wouldn’t take their clothes off in public.
Some people stripped down to their underwear, in a restaurant, in public. There was this one guy who was so suggestible that they convinced him that he was a hired assassin and they actually got him to assassinate somebody with a fake bullet and fake blood and all that stuff; that’s how suggestible he was. I think that is part of it, if you truly, truly believe that you are going to realise some outcome, or you truly believe that something is going to work for you, I think that’ll influence how suggestible you are to the placebo.

https://www.sott.net/article/315241-The-Health-Wellness-Show-Placebos-When-Nothing-Really-Matters
Could this be why it worked on you and not on DBZ?

 

[Divide by Zero]

The defense against that spending is that people can make their own and if they don't, they are blamed for being closed minded.

Even if it's just a loop of wire I did think that it might have an ability to do some sort of inductance, like antennas and transformers do. In fact you can hold a florescent bulb under high voltage power lines and they will glow! That's also post of the coal castle mystery where both locations were near high voltage lines, the idea that leedskalnin was telling into the huge energy source.

And then we have tesla who was transmitting electricity wirelessly. The mythology was twisted to say he was getting free energy but so far i have not found anything to show that. In a similar feedback loop, those who believe so, use conspiracy as proof that it existed. But in the case of keshe it's even more weird because he's supposedly dealing with governments???

I realized that this was an out for him. If people like us started to challenge his claims, he could use that as an out, like other free energy inventions that were lost. Never mind that if they knew how to do it, why not share the info online or in a making list?

When common sense is not in the plot, it's either crazy, a lot, or Hollywood wrote it, haha

And here are some more red flags about this Keshe

_http://prepareforchange.net/2016/03/04/keshe-investigation-by-the-people/

Keshe Whistleblower Sousan Alexander from Hope Moore on Vimeo.

_https://vimeo.com/157722744

(the video is also available for download from the site)

Keshe Whistleblower Sousan Alexander
Sousan followed Keshe for years. She invested in the tech. She became a student of the Keshe Institute. She then invested her own money to travel to Italy to see the Keshe operation for herself.
She found a proxy operation and has exposed Keshe as a Fraud. She has come forward to give her testimony to help prevent others from losing hundreds or thousands of dollars on Keshe products that will never arrive and don’t work.
Her testimony took place over 4 youtube videos, mixed in with other conversations.
We have condensed her testimony into one video here to make it easier to follow and hear the information she has to share. The audio is a little shaky in several places, but it clears up shortly.

And this one

_http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20313-keshe-fraud-fraud-super-plasma-coated-fraud.html

 

[Richs]

I want to apologize to everyone for having created so much discussion and noise about what has turned out to be nothing but a scam. Thanks to everyone who has shown love and helpfulness in all this.

 

[Joe]

I want to apologize to everyone for having created so much discussion and noise about what has turned out to be nothing but a scam. Thanks to everyone who has shown love and helpfulness in all this.

What caused you to finally conclude that it is nothing but a scam?

 

[neema]

I want to apologize to everyone for having created so much discussion and noise about what has turned out to be nothing but a scam. Thanks to everyone who has shown love and helpfulness in all this.

What caused you to finally conclude that it is nothing but a scam?

I’m going to guess the new session had something to do with it.

Richard it’s not the discussion that was the problem. It was very clear to most, your identification with it. But it’s all about learning and growing. So, you can always try and think about what was it about this particular scam that you identified with so hard.

Only you could probably best answer that, OSIT.

 

[Divide by Zero]

I just caught up to the session.

You know Richard, it's not enough that the C's said it. In fact, it kind of robs the lesson.

The lesson is that you trusted a spell binder over legitimate doubts from many of us.

You know what is the irony, if Keshe or someone else developed a machine and did a proper demo/testing, I would be interested in researching it because I myself don't go by the C's. They're seeing probabilities, and sometimes 99.9% can be 0.1% wrong. But like them saying the future is uncertain, my own "0.1%" doubt even when I'm certain is exactly what let's pathological spell binders who are 120% sure win over truth. Never mind that anything above 100% is technically impossible and a lie, haha.

There's a crude joke that hardwork and attitude get you close to 100% but not quite.
What gets you past 100% is bull hockey and butt kissing , lol.

That's the main frustration with the world, as we saw in the traits of confident people thread. If we have to compete with the 100+% sure liars with fairness and hard work, it's depressing!

So, maybe that gives you a reason to fight back and maybe you can help expose obvious scams. My current skepticism is about Trump, and I'm sticking to it. I am willing to change my belief/impression on him, but now it's not looking so good.

 

[Phill4]

You know what is the irony, if Keshe or someone else developed a machine and did a proper demo/testing, I would be interested in researching it because I myself don't go by the C's. They're seeing probabilities, and sometimes 99.9% can be 0.1% wrong. But like them saying the future is uncertain, my own "0.1%" doubt even when I'm certain is exactly what let's pathological spell binders who are 120% sure win over truth. Never mind that anything above 100% is technically impossible and a lie, haha.

I have not read this thread, though i see what DBZ said as, a form of considering the posibilities that we wage, entretaining an idea, can be the wording.

Entretaining an idea, whichever it is, certanly the C's indicated a foly, which is programing, in a sense, the series of questions i had was along the lines of programing in the whole society, i know that eventhough it is not being pointed out to me many behaviors i have the are a result of programing. I'm sure many. And this would fall under the cathegory of discovering the self.

The C's have made a statement, but we can entretain this statement also, not believe it, but consider this idea explore it, experiment it etc etc.
Because the idea in my mind is that you are now in a position where looking for one answer led you onto another path, where the option of discovery is now available which was not present before, by Considering/Entretaining/Exploring/Examining what the C's have said.

The lesson can be along this direction.

 

[Mikey]

The lesson is that you trusted a spell binder over legitimate doubts from many of us.

It seems like it, unless Richard had other good reasons, but he yet has to answer Joe's question, and I'm also interested to hear his response.

I just followed up on one similar very promising 'theory' that I had encountered approx. 10 years ago. It was called "Global Scaling". A German "professor" Dr. rer. nat. Hartmut Müller even did a demonstration at a University in Austria in front of a full auditorium: Transmission of information from St. Petersburg to Krems via the 'quantum background noise' of the universe that, he said, was not noise but full of fractal harmonies. He said there were other beneficial uses of this fractal technology, like building houses with 'harmonious' proportions. I was super pulled in, spent one or two weeks on it, but thankfully, a lack of available information let me forget about it, until yesterday. So I googled it and the first link that came up was from Sott.net written by Ark, an article that I missed at that time!

https://www.sott.net/article/271954-Global-Scaling-Alan-Turing-and-Quantum-Enigma

Short story: Dr. Müller (title apparently for psychology, not physics) was very successful in raising funds (millions) in professional circles for his 'technology'. But the promises were never fulfilled and investors started to pursue him. He fled, was arrested in Brazil (!), and apparently served (is serving?) 4 years in prison. Aside from the personal tragedy, it was quite refreshing to learn that there are cases where con men are exposed and brought to justice.

Nonsense disguised as Science

The still widespread (but waning) respect for academic degrees tempt some scientists to try to profit from pseudo scientific rubbish. One particular case is considered here.
On the occasion of the 5th Chert Workshop (2006) at the Naturkunde-Museum Chemnitz, I had warned against two graduated physicists who had turned charlatans in the early 90s. They applied scientific vocabulary which could not easily be recognized as empty talk by the average citizen and even misled some scientists into accepting it, with the aim to set up business on the basis of void promises or of fears especially raised for this purpose.

One of the two, Hartmut Müller, has got a prison term of more than 4 years in 2012, an accomplice killed himself (Sächs. Zeitung 11.2.2012). The other one still enjoys the benevolence of the director of the museum and of the administration in Chemnitz despite of my repeated warnings against the physicist turned charlatan.

...

Miracle healers, whose success is based on the belief in their abilities, are encountered in any cultural tradition. Some people are eager to believe, pay for the advice to move the bed out of the reach of earth rays, even if there are no such, and feel better afterwards, thereby subconciously suppressing the haunting thought of having spent the money in vain.
Nowadays, this and similar options are turned into business ideas also by jobless scientists. Their academic degree and fumbling with measuring equipment make them appear trustworthy. On this basis, esoterics of several shades can prosper in the disguise of science. As they can be sure that the average citizen is not able to see through, they excite fear of non-existent dangers and abuse the still high esteem of science among the populace for their personal profit.

Other References:

https://dialogospoliticos.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/hartmut-muller-alemao-procurado-pela-interpol-e-preso-em-florianopolis/ (Spanish)
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/betrug-mit-gravitationswellen-erfolgreich-aber-erfunden-11724374.html (German)
http://www.webcitation.org/65OozSNgo (German)
http://scienceblogs.de/astrodicticum-simplex/2012/04/24/gericht-sagt-global-scaling-ist-betrug/ (German)
http://blog.gwup.net/2012/10/25/global-scaling-muller-gefasst/ (German)
_http://www.anr-institute.com/ (English, disinfo)
_http://globalscalingtheory.com/ (English, disinfo)


Is Keshe legitimate? Does he deliver? Or is it just a matter of time until people realize that the case is otherwise and take action? We will have to wait and see...

 

[Richs]

The lesson is that you trusted a spell binder over legitimate doubts from many of us.

It seems like it, unless Richard had other good reasons, but he yet has to answer Joe's question, and I'm also interested to hear his response.

You may not be aware that I also had legitimate doubts about the Keshe technology. I continued to investigate this even so, as IF it were proven to be legitimate it might be helpful to many of us. Yes, we all have lessons to learn, and perhaps this is one I needed to learn. I never had any intent of harming anyone here in any way, including your feeling that I didn't trust you.

Is Keshe legitimate? Does he deliver? Or is it just a matter of time until people realize that the case is otherwise and take action? We will have to wait and see...

This sums up what I was doing with this case. I would always be pleased to see a legitimate technology come along but at this point there continues to be a total lack of substantive evidence that the Keshe technology and theories are one of them.

 

[Timótheos]

I want to apologize to everyone for having created so much discussion and noise about what has turned out to be nothing but a scam. Thanks to everyone who has shown love and helpfulness in all this.

What caused you to finally conclude that it is nothing but a scam?

I’m going to guess the new session had something to do with it.

Richard it’s not the discussion that was the problem. It was very clear to most, your identification with it. But it’s all about learning and growing. So, you can always try and think about what was it about this particular scam that you identified with so hard.

Only you could probably best answer that, OSIT.

Richard still hasn't directly answered Joe's question. The question is, if it was only the information from the latest session that finally led him to the conclusion that Keshe tech is a scam, why did it have to take a direct confirmation from the C's in order to come to this understanding, when everyone here has pretty much been saying that from the beginning?