Limiting Emotions that keep us in 3D

[whitecoast]

Re: Unlimited emotions that open to 4D

I think that a good re-reading of Mouravieff is in order paying particular attention to his description of the induction of higher emotions from the higher emotional center and how that is accomplished.

A simple way to think about it is this: when you start studying your machine, as in reading all the various recommended books about psychophysiology, and you begin to learn how to observe yourself objectively, then you have the possibility of rewiring yourself, so to say, to destroy buffers. (Study buffers). Part of that process is what the Cs described, separating lower emotions from higher. But that is just the beginning of the process. There is a lot more to it. It requires a great deal of self-study and introspection combined with feedback from others and managing various life situations in the process.

Feeling "awe and amazement" is NOT a "higher emotion". Quite often, it is just a chemical rush.

Thank you Laura and Nienna for your reply,

It's true that higher emotions will only become reliable and steady when proper Work is done.
I'm painfully aware of my lack of proper expression when it comes to other states of awareness - especially because I just had flickers of them and my English is too poor to put it in words.

Maybe is more appropriate to say that what I have described is just one effect of shocks ?- but even shocks have very various effects in destroying buffers.

But again, being silent won't help to get feedback, so I'll be careful to not make noise.

Joy

From what Laura has written in Amazing Grace and The Wave, I think what the fusion or contact with the Higher Emotional Center feels like is... Conscience in its purest form. It can be seen as a negative experience to some people, because it destroys the illusions they have about themselves and the world they inhabit. Experiencing sorrow and pain and [font=arial, sans-serif]Pietà[/font] is a perfectly normal reaction for a conscience when it opens for the first time and sees this world, and this person it inhabits. But Gurdjieff has said that the Higher Emotional Center has no negative side. So even though the experience may be painful to the ego, it is ecstasy from a higher perspective. It is ecstasy because it gives the person a chance to transform themselves and the world, to truly be limitless in its possibilities for The Good. That is my limited understanding.

 

[Laura]

Re: Unlimited emotions that open to 4D

From what Laura has written in Amazing Grace and The Wave, I think what the fusion or contact with the Higher Emotional Center feels like is... Conscience in its purest form. It can be seen as a negative experience to some people, because it destroys the illusions they have about themselves and the world they inhabit. Experiencing sorrow and pain and [font=arial, sans-serif]Pietà[/font] is a perfectly normal reaction for a conscience when it opens for the first time and sees this world, and this person it inhabits. But Gurdjieff has said that the Higher Emotional Center has no negative side. So even though the experience may be painful to the ego, it is ecstasy from a higher perspective. It is ecstasy because it gives the person a chance to transform themselves and the world, to truly be limitless in its possibilities for The Good. That is my limited understanding.

Pretty much. I've always thought that the images of the bleeding heart of Jesus or Mary were quite accurate portrayals of what the awakened conscience feels at this level of reality. You could say that coming into contact with higher emotion feels rather "heart piercing" - a sensation that is rather like being suffused with beauty and promise, but mingled with sorrow and despair.

I realized that the Subject/Title of this thread is somewhat misleading. It refers to "Unlimited emotions" yet the Cs never said anything about unlimited EMOTIONS. What they said was:

A: Emotion that limits is an impediment to progress. Emotion is also necessary to make progress in 3rd density. It is natural. When you begin to separate limiting emotions based on assumptions from emotions that open one to unlimited possibilities, that means you are preparing for the next density.

That is to say, emotions as we generally feel them here in 3D are most often controlled by our programs which is pretty clearly demonstrated in books such as Timothy Wilson's "Strangers to Ourselves", Daniel Kahnemann's "Thinking: Fast and Slow...", Martha Stout's "The Myth of Sanity", and Gabor Mate's "When the Body Says 'No'".

A general observation can be made from these materials that always seeking to "feel good emotions" may be the very worst thing a person can do. Being able to feel the full range of emotions at our level, to learn how to express them appropriately, to learn how to either change them if they are limiting or utilize them if they can move you forward in your development, is the task of this level.

Thus, I am going to change the subject field to more accurately represent the issue.

Recall another remark by the Cs when discussing emotions at 5D:

Q: (L) Do you feel happiness, do you feel... well, I guess feel is the wrong term because you don't have anything to feel with...

A: Full range of emotional responses in profound clarity.

Q: (L) Would one say that being at 5th density was a pleasant experience, or just an intense one?

A: Intense, but not as you would imagine this.

Q: (C) I assume that it is intense without the negative aspects, that it would be good...

A: No. Negativity, yes that is there, but there is not the underlying fear of physiological damage that one perceives in third density due to genetic body response through hormonal brain swarms.

The last remark is a big clue. Think about it.

 

[patty2292]

An exert i was previously posted from Bringers of the Dawn helped me quite alot in regards to emotions, hopefully it will help you too:

One of the big secrets that has been kept from you as a species is the richness and wealth that
accompanies emotion. You have been steered away from exploring emotion, because through emotion you can figure things out. Your emotions connect you with the spiritual body. The spiritual body, of course, is nonphysical, existing on the multidimensional sphere..

You will also realize that the more you deal with your repressed emotions, the more easier you will be able to see yourself.
Quote
You have to develop skills and abilities within a few
hours that will allow you to travel a few decades in your own emotional
evolution. You are going to have to travel the emotional highway,
because the human body expresses itself through the emotions. That is
the uniqueness and gift of your species.

First you will need to open the emotional highways to areas that you
have hidden from yourself in this particular lifetime. Memories may
flood in as this data is lined up inside you memories about events that
were difficult for you at the time or perhaps that you did not have a
context for. Some of you may uncover the events of extraterrestrial
contact that all of you had when you were children. Some of you may
uncover expressions of sexuality that you did not understand at the time
you were involved in them, whether you were a passive or an active
participant. Such things have been buried by the human emotional body
because it is very sensitive to judgment, and the mental body passes
tremendous judgment. The emotional body, linked to the spiritual body,
hides from this.

Many of you don't want to go beyond these emotional barriers and through
your personal boundaries because it might be painful. You'd like to say
"abracadabra" and just have them be gone. Pain brings you feeling. If
you can feel in no other way, sometimes, in order to capture your
attention as a stubborn human, you create pain to show yourself the
range of your abilities and to bring yourself into life. In this way,
you can feel the richness of being alive.

Most human beings are afraid of their emotional or feeling center; they
are afraid to feel. /Trust your feelings no matter what they are. /Trust
that they lead you to something and that the way you feel can bring you
a realization. You all want to be in life and be removed from it at the
same time. You say, "Let me just be here and be a powerful person, but I
don't want to feel or participate too much because it hurts too much and
then I will get sucked down. I don't trust life."


When you are not afraid of feeling, and you move past judgment and allow
yourself to feel all the ways you feel, you will have a tremendous
breakthrough because you will be able to /ride feeling into other
realities. /Some of you are afraid to feel and participate in this
reality; let alone ride into other realities, because you do not trust
your feelings. If you wish to have an acceleration, dive into something
that brings up feeling. Stop skirting the issue so that you can think
you are in control. Dive in the middle of it and then see if you are in
control.

It's not that you don't know how to feel, it's that you are /afraid of
your feelings. /You don't know what to do with them when you have them.
They bring up a sense of powerlessness within you, so you associate
feeling with a sense of, "Oh, no, I blew it." You have a boundary in
your belief system that states that when something comes up that is
emotional and brings pain or anger, then it is not good. It is time to
stop tiptoeing around things and avoiding your emotions.

Anger serves a purpose. All of you want to get finished with it: you
want to sweep it under the rug and act as if it is no good. You act like
it is rotten vegetables, throw it out, and bury it in the back garden as
if there is no purpose to it. We are emphasizing that there is a purpose
to fear and a purpose to anger. If you would allow yourselves to express
and experience your fears, which might lead to the expression of your
anger, you would learn something. Those of you who want desperately to
avoid fear and anger, and who are really afraid of these feelings, have
something great to learn through these emotions. They are techniques
that move you beyond your personal boundaries of identity and behavior,
and you are simply afraid to experience this.

Most of the time, all you want is to be accepted. You feel that no one
will like you if you do certain things or feel certain ways, so you
don't give yourself permission to have those certain feelings. That is
where the anger comes from. You have anger because you make judgments
about what you can and cannot do. If you do not give yourself permission
to feel, you cannot learn. Feeling connects you with life.

Feelings serve a variety of purposes in human beings. We encourage all
of you to please trust and cultivate and rely on your feelings.
Understand that your feelings are your ticket to ride into
multidimensional realities, where you must go if you are seriously
playing this game. In multidimensional realities, you learn to hold and
focus many different versions of yourself at once. Feelings can take you
to these places, particularly feelings that you trust. Many of you are
very suspicious and masterful over your feelings. You will not allow
certain feelings to come forward, or you judge them when they come up
instead of observing where they take you or what they do for you.


Because you have a fear of something, you keep yourself from
experiencing it because you put up a wall that says, "If I go there, it
is bad." You put the brakes on. In actuality, your fear will eventually
energize the experience into your realm of development because all
thought is drawn into form based on the emotional influence behind it.
So sometimes the greatest thing to do is to simply say, "What the heck,
I will go there. I surrender." Then deal with being there and don't
worry about being centered while you are in your feeling center. If you
intend to go into your feeling center and always be in control, you are
not giving yourself the range of movement that is needed to ride the
emotions that knock down boundaries and belief systems.

You must learn to /love your emotions. /As long as you describe
something as difficult, you are making it difficult. No one else is. You
are resisting and judging the changes coming about. You are feeling that
you do not know what is going on, and you wish to be in control. Control
is something very convenient and very handy. It must be applied at the
right place at the right time, like super glue. Super glue in the wrong
place doesn't do much good. Did you ever super glue your hands or lips
together? You must learn to exercise control in the way you use super
glue. If you screw up with super glue, you get stuck and you can't do
anything. Control is the same way: you get stuck with it, and it sticks
you to something that you don't need to be stuck to. You must be very
selective about what you decide to control or not control. The old human
pattern, or the paradigm that exists, says, "You must be in control."

Get clever. Next time you come into one of these emotional situations,
say to yourself immediately, "Alright, I know what is going on; I'm not
getting caught in this one. I know there is something here for me to
learn, and something for me to change. I believe that I am guided and
that I am following a blueprint, so I will check out what is in this for
me by not judging it and by going with the flow. I request that all my
changes come in joy and safety and harmony. That is my decree.
Everything in my evolution I am intending is covered by that: I
experience joy and safety and harmony. So I will go with this energy and
see what is changing for me and what I need to give up."

Feeling is what connects you to your humanity; feeling is what connects you to your emotions. Emotions connect you in this realm of existence to your spiritual body. What we are saying is that emotions, or feelings, are the key to being alive in this reality. Many realities exist without emotions, but in this reality they are your greatest gift. If you deny your emotional self in this lifetime, then you had best realize that you have hung it up. If you are not going to be part of your emotional self, then you are never going to make the game we are talking about. You will simply be one of the masses who watches television and feels like a victim over and over again. If you are feeling pain within your emotional body, ask yourself why you believe the pain is there, what purpose the pain serves, and why you are choosing to create pain through your emotions. Why is it not your choice to create joy? /All /is
/choice. /We need to remind you of this.

 

[luc]

Re: Unlimited emotions that open to 4D

- snip -

Q: (L) Do you feel happiness, do you feel... well, I guess feel is the wrong term because you don't have anything to feel with...

A: Full range of emotional responses in profound clarity.

Q: (L) Would one say that being at 5th density was a pleasant experience, or just an intense one?

A: Intense, but not as you would imagine this.

Q: (C) I assume that it is intense without the negative aspects, that it would be good...

A: No. Negativity, yes that is there, but there is not the underlying fear of physiological damage that one perceives in third density due to genetic body response through hormonal brain swarms.

The last remark is a big clue. Think about it.

Okay, here's how I understand it: Negative emotions are a key to progress, since they can act as a guide, show us which areas we need to work on, which programs to face, which action to take (though of course it's not always clear what this means in a specific situation). The problem is that we tend to avoid them - we want our negative emotions to go away since they make us feel uncomfortable. The usual response (unless we make a conscious effort), for me at least, is to find a distraction, to look for a "quick fix". Of course, by ignoring these negative emotions, we make matters worse and usually this kind of dissociative behavior backfires later.

Now what I thought when reading the excerpt Laura posted, was why these negative emotions make us feel so uncomfortable? Maybe it's not the emotions themselves, but rather what they imply - when facing them, we need to change things, we need to do stuff the predator hates, stuff we've never dared doing before. We embark on a dangerous path. And here, our survival instincts kick in ("genetic body response through hormonal brain swarms"), driving us away, urging us to "play safe". Now if there's no body that is threatened as in 5D, there's no fear of getting hurt, no bodily survival instinct. So the negative emotions are there, but maybe we are less terrified facing them, less terrified of what they mean. That way, we can experience the "full range of emotional responses in profound clarity".
Fwiw.

 

[Sol Logos]

I was reading some parts of "The dark night of the soul" by st john of the cross, which I feel would be descriptive of this contact with one's the Higher Emotional Center. Mind you, you'd want to take into account it was written in the 16th century.

THIS dark night is an inflowing of God into the soul, which purges it from its ignorances and imperfections, habitual natural and spiritual, and which is called by contemplatives infused contemplation, or mystical theology. Herein God secretly teaches the soul and instructs it in perfection of love without its doing anything, or understanding of what manner is this infused contemplation. Inasmuch as it is the loving wisdom of God, God produces striking effects in the soul for, by purging and illumining it, He prepares it for the union of love with God. Wherefore the same loving wisdom that purges the blessed spirits and enlightens them is that which here purges the soul and illumines it.

2. But the question arises: Why is the Divine light (which as we say, illumines and purges the soul from its ignorances) here called by the soul a dark night? To this the answer is that for two reasons this Divine wisdom is not only night and darkness for the soul, but is likewise affliction and torment. The first is because of the height of Divine Wisdom, which transcends the talent of the soul, and in this way is darkness to it; the second, because of its vileness and impurity, in which respect it is painful and afflictive to it, and is also dark.

3. In order to prove the first point, we must here assume a certain doctrine of the philosopher, which says that, the clearer and more manifest are Divine things in themselves the darker and more hidden are they to the soul naturally; just as, the clearer is the light, the more it blinds and darkens the pupil of the owl, and, the more directly we look at the sun, the greater is the darkness which it causes in our visual faculty, overcoming and overwhelming it through its own weakness. In the same way, when this Divine light of contemplation assails the soul which is not yet wholly enlightened, it causes spiritual darkness in it; for not only does it overcome it, but likewise it overwhelms it and darkens the act of its natural intelligence. For this reason Saint Dionysius and other mystical theologians call this infused contemplation a ray of darkness—that is to say, for the soul that is not enlightened and purged—for the natural strength of the intellect is transcended and overwhelmed by its great supernatural light. Wherefore David likewise said: That near to God and round about Him are darkness and cloud; [108] not that this is so in fact, but that it is so to our weak understanding, which is blinded and darkened by so vast a light, to which it cannot attain. [109] For this cause the same David then explained himself, saying: ‘Through the great splendour of His presence passed clouds’ [110] —that is, between God and our understanding. And it is for this cause that, when God sends it out from Himself to the soul that is not yet transformed, this illumining ray of His secret wisdom causes thick darkness in the understanding.

4. And it is clear that this dark contemplation is in these its beginnings painful likewise to the soul; for, as this Divine infused contemplation has many excellences that are extremely good, and the soul that receives them, not being purged, has many miseries that are likewise extremely bad, hence it follows that, as two contraries cannot coexist in one subject—the soul—it must of necessity have pain and suffering, since it is the subject wherein these two contraries war against each other, working the one against the other, by reason of the purgation of the imperfections of the soul which comes to pass through this contemplation. This we shall prove inductively in the manner following.

5. In the first place, because the light and wisdom of this contemplation is most bright and pure, and the soul which it assails is dark and impure, it follows that the soul suffers great pain when it receives it in itself, just as, when the eyes are dimmed by humours, and become impure and weak, the assault made upon them by a bright light causes them pain. And when the soul suffers the direct assault of this Divine light, its pain, which results from its impurity, is immense; because, when this pure light assails the soul, in order to expel its impurity, the soul feels itself to be so impure and miserable that it believes God to be against it, and thinks that it has set itself up against God. This causes it sore grief and pain, because it now believes that God has cast it away: this was one of the greatest trials which Job felt when God sent him this experience, and he said: ‘Why hast Thou set me contrary to Thee, so that I am grievous and burdensome to myself?’ [111] For, by means of this pure light, the soul now sees its impurity clearly (although darkly), and knows clearly that it is unworthy of God or of any creature. And what gives it most pain is that it thinks that it will never be worthy and that its good things are all over for it. This is caused by the profound immersion of its spirit in the knowledge and realization of its evils and miseries; for this Divine and dark light now reveals them all to the eye, that it may see clearly how in its own strength it can never have aught else. In this sense we may understand that passage from David, which says: ‘For iniquity Thou hast corrected man and hast made his soul to be undone and consumed: he wastes away as the spider.’ [112]

6. The second way in which the soul suffers pain is by reason of its weakness, natural, moral and spiritual; for, when this Divine contemplation assails the soul with a certain force, in order to strengthen it and subdue it, it suffers such pain in its weakness that it nearly swoons away. This is especially so at certain times when it is assailed with somewhat greater force; for sense and spirit, as if beneath some immense and dark load, are in such great pain and agony that the soul would find advantage and relief in death. This had been experienced by the prophet Job, when he said: ‘I desire not that He should have intercourse with me in great strength, lest He oppress me with the weight of His greatness.’ [113]

7. Beneath the power of this oppression and weight the soul feels itself so far from being favoured that it thinks, and correctly so, that even that wherein it was wont to find some help has vanished with everything else, and that there is none who has pity upon it. To this effect Job says likewise: ‘Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, at least ye my friends, because the hand of the Lord has touched me.’ [114] A thing of great wonder and pity is it that the soul’s weakness and impurity should now be so great that, though the hand of God is of itself so light and gentle, the soul should now feel it to be so heavy and so contrary, [115] though it neither weighs it down nor rests upon it, but only touches it, and that mercifully, since He does this in order to grant the soul favours and not to chastise it.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Dark_Night_of_the_Soul_(Peers_translation)/Book_the_Second

 

[Michal]

Hi,

I just would like to add 2 cents.
I re-red "Narcissistic family" and thought of in context of this answer from C's:

A: Emotion that limits is an impediment to progress. Emotion is also necessary to make progress in 3rd density. It is natural. When you begin to separate limiting emotions based on assumptions from emotions that open one to unlimited possibilities, that means you are preparing for the next density.

I find myself unable, limited. I see myself metaphorically speaking like a man in the dark with small lamp. Direction in this walk is set (if at all) "based on assumptions from emotions"? I do not want to follow the fear, I do not want to follow the desire of the body, I would like to come back to those moments which I experienced few times in my life. But I feel unable to control my way, control my emotions. I am unable to choose them. They choose me, or removing personification off my emotions: I act by automatic responses which generate emotions which I am not able to control. But I know that acting automatic is not right, based on my experience and based on assumption or hypothesis that acting automatically is happening without my control, then if my decisions are made based on emotions that limit I am not free. But I want to be free. I want to know. I want to choose. I want to decide. But I am not able to do it. But I know that it could be possible. So this "could be" is assumption that I may now set direction onto although I am not sure, and do not "feel it". Or maybe better: I feel I miss something.

And coming back to "Narcissistic family" there is one piece that came to my mind:

Chapter: Setting boundaries
Actions First... Feelings Follow
But what of the children raised in narcissistic families? What of the Bens and Kates, with limited confidence in their ability to assess the appropriateness of their actions and decisions? An essential part of therapy with these individuals involves retraining. What they did not get as a child from their parents, they can get as an adult from themselves: once they understand how they were mistrained, they can make the decision to retrain. They can, in adulthood, make a conscious decision to incorporate these eight rules into their lives and act as if they believed them. When one acts "as if" for long enough, eventually it becomes part of one's belief system.
Feelings always follow actions. It is imperative when working with these patients to reinforce this premise continually. the patients cannot wait to feel more confident in order to act more confidently - to make firm decisions, to be advocates for themselves, to set rules and boundaries for themselves and the way they wish to be treated. They can check out the appropriateness of their decisions with the therapist, of course, but they need to act "as if" they believe in themselves before they can feel that belief and confidence. The actions come before the feelings; with time, however, the feelings will follow

So this "as if" part looks to me like this mentioned "assumption" by the C's.

Am I on track or off track here?

 

[Glenn]

Hi,

I just would like to add 2 cents.
I re-red "Narcissistic family" and thought of in context of this answer from C's:

A: Emotion that limits is an impediment to progress. Emotion is also necessary to make progress in 3rd density. It is natural. When you begin to separate limiting emotions based on assumptions from emotions that open one to unlimited possibilities, that means you are preparing for the next density.

I find myself unable, limited. I see myself metaphorically speaking like a man in the dark with small lamp. Direction in this walk is set (if at all) "based on assumptions from emotions"? I do not want to follow the fear, I do not want to follow the desire of the body, I would like to come back to those moments which I experienced few times in my life. But I feel unable to control my way, control my emotions. I am unable to choose them. They choose me, or removing personification off my emotions: I act by automatic responses which generate emotions which I am not able to control. But I know that acting automatic is not right, based on my experience and based on assumption or hypothesis that acting automatically is happening without my control, then if my decisions are made based on emotions that limit I am not free. But I want to be free. I want to know. I want to choose. I want to decide. But I am not able to do it. But I know that it could be possible. So this "could be" is assumption that I may now set direction onto although I am not sure, and do not "feel it". Or maybe better: I feel I miss something.

And coming back to "Narcissistic family" there is one piece that came to my mind:

Chapter: Setting boundaries
Actions First... Feelings Follow
But what of the children raised in narcissistic families? What of the Bens and Kates, with limited confidence in their ability to assess the appropriateness of their actions and decisions? An essential part of therapy with these individuals involves retraining. What they did not get as a child from their parents, they can get as an adult from themselves: once they understand how they were mistrained, they can make the decision to retrain. They can, in adulthood, make a conscious decision to incorporate these eight rules into their lives and act as if they believed them. When one acts "as if" for long enough, eventually it becomes part of one's belief system.
Feelings always follow actions. It is imperative when working with these patients to reinforce this premise continually. the patients cannot wait to feel more confident in order to act more confidently - to make firm decisions, to be advocates for themselves, to set rules and boundaries for themselves and the way they wish to be treated. They can check out the appropriateness of their decisions with the therapist, of course, but they need to act "as if" they believe in themselves before they can feel that belief and confidence. The actions come before the feelings; with time, however, the feelings will follow

So this "as if" part looks to me like this mentioned "assumption" by the C's.

Am I on track or off track here?

Hi Mikel
This is a pretty interesting subject, emotions, feelings, limiting vs ones that open to unlimited possibilities.

From how I understand it, emotions are a product of your belief system. Or you could say they are tied to your belief system. The problem is, your belief system can get faulty, depending on the information you are exposed to from a young age. It could be your parents, teachers, things you watch on TV. Basically an endless stream of information. And of course, a lot of the information you see is manipulated by those with access to levers of power over the society.

A lot of our beliefs, we never question. We just assume that they are correct, that is if we even think about it. So you could say they are beliefs based on assumptions. Assumptions that you never, or are afraid to question.

Part of the Work, as I see it, is to tackle those issues directly. As it is deemed important to break down the illusions and false beliefs of our reality and of ourselves. It is important to replace false beliefs based on assumptions with a more objective view of our reality. It is like how you have to demolish an old building in order to build a new one on the same site.

I just thought I would give you my interpretation of the question. Like I said, an interesting question, and I think an important one to ask and understand. I would be interested to see what others think of this question.

Maybe the bolded part, where you say you can't choose or control your emotions. Maybe instead of choosing or controlling emotions, you need to choose or control your beliefs, Then the emotions would take care of themselves... OSIT

 

[Keit]

So this "as if" part looks to me like this mentioned "assumption" by the C's.

Am I on track or off track here?

Apologies, Mikel, if I misunderstood your question, but you appear to be asking if the "as if" approach described in the "Narcissistic Family" is similar to the "limiting emotions based on assumptions"?

This "as if" approach is also called: "fake it until you make it". Although it has the word "fake", it doesn't carry any negative connotations. On the contrary, in this case it refers to the ability of the brain to live "outside of time".

For example, we all have automatic thought processes that are based on things that happened to us since childhood. They are wired into our brain and activate every time our brain encounters situations that it perceives as similar to whatever happened to us back in childhood. Sometimes it is a good thing, as it can warn us of various dangers, but sometimes it does us a great disservice, because it causes us to react toward situations that are happening to us right now when we are already adults, with the same intensity and level of emotional maturity of a small and scared child. Because time doesn't exist for the brain and it uses the same neural pathways.

But what we can do is to rewire those pathways. Rewire the brain to create new adult experiences and learn how to react differently. We "fake it until we make it". We look at the situation and gradually consciously train ourselves to react to it differently, and in a more adult and constructive manner. We do it by asking ourselves how we would react if we were emotionally mature and self-aware adults.

It isn't easy, and it takes a lot of time and effort, and until long-lasting changes happen we do our best to "fake it", by making an effort to approach life, situations and people with this constructive attitude.

You can also take a look at the following forum post.

This TED talk is also very interesting and touches upon the idea of retraining the brain.

https://youtu.be/Ks-_Mh1QhMc

 

[Approaching Infinity]

From how I understand it, emotions are a product of your belief system. Or you could say they are tied to your belief system. The problem is, your belief system can get faulty, depending on the information you are exposed to from a young age. It could be your parents, teachers, things you watch on TV. Basically an endless stream of information. And of course, a lot of the information you see is manipulated by those with access to levers of power over the society.

A lot of our beliefs, we never question. We just assume that they are correct, that is if we even think about it. So you could say they are beliefs based on assumptions. Assumptions that you never, or are afraid to question.

Part of the Work, as I see it, is to tackle those issues directly. As it is deemed important to break down the illusions and false beliefs of our reality and of ourselves. It is important to replace false beliefs based on assumptions with a more objective view of our reality. It is like how you have to demolish an old building in order to build a new one on the same site.

I just thought I would give you my interpretation of the question. Like I said, an interesting question, and I think an important one to ask and understand. I would be interested to see what others think of this question.

I think that was very well put. Behaviors are driven by emotions, and emotions are conditioned by beliefs. Change your beliefs (i.e., your understanding), and your emotions and thus behaviors will change. This is basically what the Stoics thought: once you understand the truth, you will basically instantaneously "convert" and be a sage. Well, that may be the case in principle, but it seems to be a bit more difficult in practice, to put it lightly.

"Changing your beliefs" is a bit abstract and cerebral. What it comes down to is a combination of getting a more objective understanding of the world AND changing your self-understanding. That's what the Stoics were all about, and the early Christians, each in their own way. If you truly SEE yourself as a person who is part of something greater, as someone who values the interests of others above your own, as someone who has died to their old selfish ways, and who lives not for what that old self wanted but for a value greater than yourself, you will ACT in the ways required by that self-understanding.

And when you stumble, you will need a reminder, from yourself or from others, that this is not YOU.

Basically, this process is one of transforming your desires. The old self desired selfish things. The new self desires to do the "will of God", to play a part in a higher purpose, to do what is necessary to manifest that higher purpose. And when you can do that, you will have a perfect understanding of the world and your place in it.

Maybe the bolded part, where you say you can't choose or control your emotions. Maybe instead of choosing or controlling emotions, you need to choose or control your beliefs, Then the emotions would take care of themselves... OSIT

Yep. It might help to ponder questions like "Who am I, really?" "What do I really want?" "What do I believe about how I fit in the world, and the role I'm here to play?" etc. If you're not satisfied with your answers, write out what you think your ideal answers would be. And go from there.

 

[genero81]

From how I understand it, emotions are a product of your belief system. Or you could say they are tied to your belief system. The problem is, your belief system can get faulty, depending on the information you are exposed to from a young age. It could be your parents, teachers, things you watch on TV. Basically an endless stream of information. And of course, a lot of the information you see is manipulated by those with access to levers of power over the society.

A lot of our beliefs, we never question. We just assume that they are correct, that is if we even think about it. So you could say they are beliefs based on assumptions. Assumptions that you never, or are afraid to question.

Part of the Work, as I see it, is to tackle those issues directly. As it is deemed important to break down the illusions and false beliefs of our reality and of ourselves. It is important to replace false beliefs based on assumptions with a more objective view of our reality. It is like how you have to demolish an old building in order to build a new one on the same site.

I just thought I would give you my interpretation of the question. Like I said, an interesting question, and I think an important one to ask and understand. I would be interested to see what others think of this question.

I think that was very well put. Behaviors are driven by emotions, and emotions are conditioned by beliefs. Change your beliefs (i.e., your understanding), and your emotions and thus behaviors will change. This is basically what the Stoics thought: once you understand the truth, you will basically instantaneously "convert" and be a sage. Well, that may be the case in principle, but it seems to be a bit more difficult in practice, to put it lightly.

"Changing your beliefs" is a bit abstract and cerebral. What it comes down to is a combination of getting a more objective understanding of the world AND changing your self-understanding. That's what the Stoics were all about, and the early Christians, each in their own way. If you truly SEE yourself as a person who is part of something greater, as someone who values the interests of others above your own, as someone who has died to their old selfish ways, and who lives not for what that old self wanted but for a value greater than yourself, you will ACT in the ways required by that self-understanding.

And when you stumble, you will need a reminder, from yourself or from others, that this is not YOU.

Basically, this process is one of transforming your desires. The old self desired selfish things. The new self desires to do the "will of God", to play a part in a higher purpose, to do what is necessary to manifest that higher purpose. And when you can do that, you will have a perfect understanding of the world and your place in it.

Maybe the bolded part, where you say you can't choose or control your emotions. Maybe instead of choosing or controlling emotions, you need to choose or control your beliefs, Then the emotions would take care of themselves... OSIT

Yep. It might help to ponder questions like "Who am I, really?" "What do I really want?" "What do I believe about how I fit in the world, and the role I'm here to play?" etc. If you're not satisfied with your answers, write out what you think your ideal answers would be. And go from there.

I like what you say here. It's like the old self is kind of a heathen, and you can't just get rid of this heathen. You have to patiently, deliberately make the heathen conform to the improved understanding, to the higher principles and values that you have decided to adopt. At first the heathen keeps wandering off track and you have to redirect constantly. But slowly, slowly the heathen begins to adopt the new attitude and produces less resistance. That's my take on it anyway. Also what came to mind during this discussion is what Laura has said before that we are quantum, chemical, biological entities, in that order.

 

[3DStudent]

This TED talk is also very interesting and touches upon the idea of retraining the brain.

https://youtu.be/Ks-_Mh1QhMc

Thanks, I'm glad I watched that. I'm going to try the posture changing during social examinations. And when petrified, faking it until I become it.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= Approaching Infinity]Basically, this process is one of transforming your desires. The old self desired selfish things. The new self desires to do the "will of God", to play a part in a higher purpose, to do what is necessary to manifest that higher purpose. And when you can do that, you will have a perfect understanding of the world and your place in it.[/quote]

Thanks, I think that was very well put. I want to add,

A higher purpose comes with developing our conscience. To be sensitive not only for our own struggles, but also to the struggles of others.

Learning our role in the world is rather complicated, it depends on how well we can see, not only our inner universe, but also our outer universe that goes along with it. When we are capable of being sincerely interested in the well being of others. A new world awaits.

That starts with the people around us, but goes way further than that. Empathy touches all and everyone. The state of the World and our role in it is directly tied to our conscience. The more we are able to care, the more we want to know and learn how to correctly interact with others and creation. (Hence our role in the world)

What kind of role may that be? One important realization in that regard may be. Giving the lie what it deserves, the truth. Lies cause misery and suffering for ourselves and others that leads to entropy.

Allthough, like said, it all starts with the people around us.

Hope this helps.

 

[Michal]

Thank You!
I am struggling inside.
I find myself asking questions and than thought comes: "what are You doing? You need to understand it Yourself".

It is like, I hope for help, but when it comes, I still FEEL down... because ... maybe... maybe that is because I need to "fake it" now. Not only think about faking it. ... And stop expecting emotional outcome immediately... to feel good... ... immediate gratification...

Thank You for Your directions.
It looks like that my expectations(beliefs) again are coming in the way. "I" is expecting quick fix. But "quite I" sees work to do.
It is so ... damn ... hard ... to bring beliefs and verbalize them. It is much much much easier to see others'. To see self is so ... I should put that definitely in some whining thread (żeby trochę pobiadolić - in polish he he :).

Have a sooper dooper day(s) gals and guys!!!

 

[zak]

Some stuffs:

Plutchik's psycholevolutionary theory of basic emotions:
http://www.adliterate.com/archives/Plutchik.emotion.theorie.POSTER.pdf


The hourglass of emotions:

Affective neuroscience and twin disciplines have clearly demonstrated how emotions and intelligence are strictly connected. Therefore, in order to enhance intelligent system processing and reasoning, it is necessary to provide machineswith emotional models for time critical decision enforcement.
Moreover, technology is increasingly used to observe human-to-human inter-actions, e.g., customer frustration monitoring in call centre
applications. In such contexts, it is necessary to provide a suitable representation of emotional information, which should make the concepts and descriptions developed in the affective sciences available for use in technological contexts.
In this work, we developed the Hourglass of Emotions, a novel biologically inspired and psychologically motivated emotion categorisation model that goes beyond mere categorical and dimensional approaches. Such model represents affective states both through labels and through four independent but concomitant affective dimensions, which can potentially describe the full range of emotional experiences that are rooted in any of us.
In the future, we will be exploiting the model for the development of emotion-sensitive systems in different fields, in order to explore how much the model is generalisable and suitable for potentially any affective computing application.

We also plan to further modify the model in order to better represent compound emotions and to include the description of appraisal-based emotions

http://sentic.net/hourglass-of-emotions.pdf

Of course it's 'schematic', and limiting, so free to us to push the fences.

 

[mantle]

Limiting emotions have much to do with one's bodily use. Having studied and taught the Alexander Technique for enough years, which I no longer do , it never ceases to amaze me the relation between thinking , feeling and breathing and the habitual carriage of one's body in regard to feelings which as a rule are very inaccurate due to one's own misuse . Use and functioning relate and it is possible to gradually refine the mechanisms of balance, poise and neuro muscular coordination so that one's own inner guide can have a say on how one lives.