History of Sufi Masters

[Biomiast]

Hi to all,

This small project has been on my mind for some time. As I sensed on the recent thread on Islam, there is a confusion between Sufism and Islam and how these two ways of life different from each other and where do they converge. For this reason, I would like to point out the source of ideas in Sufism, coming from great Sufi Masters. The list may be longer than I planned in actuality, however, I will write about those I think that made the most significant contributions. It may also be interesting to observe how these people are received by their community at their time, then you will have an idea how Sufism is perceived before it was co-opted among orthodox Muslims.

Junayd al Baghdadi:

Junayd is an interesting figure, and I think his ideas may resonate with us well. He is considered as the master of masters by every single Sufi school either they are real or not. Every school tries to associate itself with Junayd to show that it is legit. I think that tells something about the man and power of his knowledge that needs to be taken over by disinformation artists. I have taken much of this material from Wikipedia, adding some additional sources and my knowledge on the concepts.

Born in 830 A.D., died on 910 A.D. A Persian Mystic that taught and lived in Baghdad.

His basic ideas deal with a progression that leads one to “annihilate” oneself (fana) so as to be in a closer union with the Divine. People need to “relinquish natural desires, to wipe out human attributes, to discard selfish motives, to cultivate spiritual qualities, to devote oneself to true knowledge, to do what is best in the context of eternity, to wish good for the entire community, to be truly faithful to God, and to follow the Prophet in the matters of the Shari’a”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junayd_of_Baghdad

The above is pretty much what we are trying to achieve and Junayd tells this eloquently, writing about different stages before one reaches God. I will try to relate them to you in common terminology of this forum.

First of all, Junayd emphasizes a struggle, a hardship(bala) is essential for a journey to start and continue afterwards. It is the fuel that guides the seeker to reach God. He draws a basic outline for annihilating ego-self. At the beginning, one puts some distance between him/her and worldly possessions and desires, he/she no longer becomes attached to the world. Then, they put some distance between them and the people around them. Even though this may be literally practiced at the time, this was because there were schools of sufism where it was essential to submit yourself to the will of your master. Today, for us, this means cleaning your environment from pathological influences and desires, creating a psychological hygiene.

Then, the process continues to devotion and rememberance of God which is equivalent to EE for us. This way, one always feel connected with “God” and permits Its influence into his/her life. Then, what is required for the seeker is sincerity and comtemplation. This makes a person consider his/her life, false personality, selfish desires and narcissistic woundings. As the contemplation continues, it produces a State where a person feels one with God. It is my thinking that those Sufis that described such processes do not refer to reaching 7th density, but finding one’s true self. Now this is the most interesting part, Junayd says there are also three stages that one must pass to go beyond fana. This means fana is also something that needs to be passed so it is not reaching 7th density.

To pass fana three things must be accomplished:

1) the passing away from one’s attributes through the effort of constantly opposing one’s ego-self : This means you fight with your false personality, your ego to extend beyond your childhood programming.

2) passing away from one’s sense of accomplishment, that is, passing away from ‘one’s share of the sweet deserts and pleasures of obedience’: This bit describes beating your false personality again. This time ego holds on tight to its accomplishments, its successes and its desires and a sincere seeker must know that these desires are stemming from false personality, not from true self. And the accomplishments, even though they are attributed to ego, they actually belong to the real self.

3) passing away from the vision of the reality ‘of your ecstasies as the sign of the real overpowers you’: This part is very interesting. I think he describes that as people progress and go beyond first two obstacles, they began to enjoy the ecstasies that God gives to them. But if one dwells on these experiences, one can not find the real self, he/she would just be a junkie that we commonly see in New Age tradition.

Sufis commonly talk about their ecstasies and drunkenness as they become one with the God similar to shamans, however, Junayd says there is a state beyond that ecstasy which is called baqa or remaining with God. Junayd thinks when one reaches baqa, he/she is no longer ecstatic, but Sober. Gurdjieff might say he/she woke up which has similar meaning. He/she interacts with world with the senses given to him/her by God.

However there is another school of thought that also uses the word baqa for a different meaning. In those schools, fana is reaching the God and baqa is “forgetting” that you reached the God because you become one with the God in a place where there is no you and me. I think Junayd’s school is mainly associated with everyday life experiences to transcend the self, and remain in the world, similar to us.

As an example to illustrate how Sufis talked in metaphors, I would like to mention a sentence from Junayd and its interpretation. The sentence is “The water takes on the color of the cup. “ and it is interpreted by scholars as:

“When the water is understood here to refer to the Light of Divine self-disclosure, we are led to the important concept of ‘capacity,’ whereby the Divine epiphany is received by the heart of any person according to that person’s particular receptive capacity and will be ‘colored’ by that person’s nature”

Other interesting things about Junayd is, he didn’t believe that Sufi knowledge is for everyone, he thought this knowledge belongs to a specific group of people and not to the masses. This is probably the reason he talked in methapors and probably the reason he had a head on his shoulders as we will see in the life of Mansur al-Hallaj.

It seems amazing to me that an ordinary Muslim would sit down and think about reaching to God when all he/she needs to do is follow God's commands. The fact that someone is working on these philosophical problems shows me that those people are not taken in by the lies in Quran about heaven and hell. To finish this post with a verse from Yunus Emre telling to God:

The thing they called heaven
Has some houses and some women
If somebody wants them, give it to them
You are the one I need, you are the one I crave

 

[Biomiast]

Starting with Junayd was kind of starting in the middle, but necessary to understand the ones before him, especially Beyazid Bistami. For that reason, after speaking about Junayd, I would like to go back to early Sufis and the evolution of Sufism.

Early Sufis strictly followed Quran and words of the Mohammad, fearing hell and yearning for heaven. This dominated the minds of the early Sufis, however, a strong influence coming from Persian Sufis cause this evolution and their perception widened on how should one treat God. This post is composed of stories and anecdotes from Annemarie Schimmel’s book Mystic Dimensions of Islam. This is a good book for history of Sufism full of small anecdotes, however the author delves too much on Islam when relating to Sufis.

_http://www.amazon.com/Mystical-Dimensions-Islam-Annemarie-Schimmel/dp/0807812714

Rabia:

To my knowledge, the first real Sufi who opposed atrocities of early Sufis is Rabia, a woman who was slave, and later freed. She had nothing in herself but the love of God which she showed in her words and in her actions. To her, God is beloved. She refers to a verse in Quran where it says: “God loved them and they loved God” meaning it is duty of the creation to love God. Another Sufi, Cami made a fine distinction between early Sufis and those who are like Rabia in the following words:

Earlier Sufis, with their faith, experienced the joys of the heaven and saw the world as an ugly place. They do not appreciate the beauty of the material world. The reason they are lower than real Sufis is: They are ashamed of God because of their ego which seek pleasure from heaven, this creates a veil between them and God. On the other hand, Real Sufis are ashamed of heaven and earth since thet only want to see their Beloved. For this reason, Truth prevents them to see heaven and earth.

There is also an anecdote related to Rabia. One day she was wondering around the streets with a torch in one hand and a bucket of water in the other. When they asked what is she doing, she replied: I will burn the heaven and extinguish hell to stop people from fearing or loving afterlife. This will enact the love of God in them.

Rabia loves God in its purest form without anyone between them, She talked to God as if talking to a Beloved. She showed no reverence to Mohammad probably because she saw him as another veil between her and God.

Rabia also proposed the existence of a jealous God. Previously God was jealous because It didn’t want anyone to worship anything other. However Rabia talks about another jealousy: A jealous God that can not stand to share the Love that is born because of its loneliness.

These words strike me as meaningless at the beginning, but thinking about them, I come to see their beauty. This goes back to Sufi belief that God created us because of loneliness. There is a saying from God that is not in Quran, but Sufis talk about this repeatedly. God said: “I was a Secret Treasure, I created you to be Known.” So God created us out of loneliness and asked us to Know It. This way It may be able to experience itself through us. However, Rabia thinks people are not devoting themselves to this love of God and they occupy themselves with every day life. So God creates everything to end Its loneliness, and then those that are created to know God turn their back on It to love the creation. And God is jealous of this love that should be directed to It. It can not stand to share this Love, even with Itself and It is jealous of Itself!

Early Sufis spent their nights in prayer as described by orthodox Islam but Rabia spent her nights communing with God, talking with It as if you are talking to someone you love. She is known with a prayer that is repeated among Sufi circles coming after her:

O God, give my fortunes in the world to your enemies and give my fortunes in the afterlife to your friends. You are enough for us!

 

[Biomiast]

In this post I will talk about two prominent Sufis, they were not as influential as Rabia of Junayd but nonetheless, they were important.

First one is called Dhul-Nun al Mısri, a Sufi living in Egypt and known with his works on Alchemy although none of his written work has survived. He was following footsteps of Rabia, and he said: God, I call you My Owner in front of everyone but you are my beloved.

There is a belief in the esoteric Islam that among the Names of Allah, there is one Biggest Name(Ismi Azam in arabic) that is above the others. It is said that a prayer that involves Biggest Name of Allah is guaranteed to be accepted. There is a novel about this name written by Amin Maalouf. It is highly recommended.

Anyway, when someone asked Dhul Nun what is the Biggest Name of Allah, he responds: "Are the other Names lower?" This anecdote shows the distinction between seeking power and use God's will for your advantage and seeking God and accepting its will as it is.

He is also known saying: None saw Allah and died because It is eternal and who saw It stayed with It and also became eternal.

Also commenting on the Early Sufis who shut the world to seek heaven, he said: Since God created earth, it is not the earth that is worthless, it is our intention that makes it worthless for us when we seek its pleasures.

He also integrated the concept of Gnosis into Sufism.

Bayazid Bastami:

Bayazid is a prominent Sufi and he is one of the ecstatic ones as opposed to Junayd's Sober Sufism. Also from Persia, he has close ties with Zoroastrianism. He is known with the idea of "destroying the self so all there is left is God" and he dedicated his life for this idea. Junayd saw him as a problematic person because of his passion and improper behaviour. According to Junayd, Bastami was high in the hierarchy of Sufis, yet he didn't reach the Gnosis.

Everybody seems to be puzzled by Bayazid's remarks and call him crazy sometimes. However, I hope that we can see the symbolism behind his words.

For the idea of protecting yourself from earthly attachments, he said to his nephew: I dissociated myself from the earth in one day. And the other day from heaven. The day after that I dissociated myself from my ego. Then Allah said to me: "Bayazid, You can not endure us." And I said "This is what I seek." Then Allah said: "You found it!"

This small conversation puzzled many people. A sufi talking to Allah. O God, only prophets do that, but Bayazid think he was doing it on various occasions. As for the meaning of the conversation. When Bayazid let go of everything except his life, God said it is impossible for a man to be in the presence of God with his identity intact. To be with God you must cease to exist and become God. When God says this, Bayazid says, "this is what I want, I do not want to endure, I want to be annihilated to join you" which is something God wants, and It says "you found it!"

Beyazid also claimed to take a 30.000 year old journey 3 times to the depths of space and found himself in divine throne, just behind the veil of God. The other side of the veil, indicating 7th density, I wonder if he was talking about densities and such as journeys. Notice, he didn't cross the veil, he was just sitting there. Maybe a 6th density inspiration but I am just speculating here.

Somebody one time asked him "When can man reach God?" and he answered "O poor soul, how can one reach him?" again alluding to the fact that once you reach God, you are no longer you, you cease to exist and become God.

In one story, he says: God summoned me and said "Bayazid, my creation want to see you" and I said "Make me one with yourself so that when your creation looks at me, they will say they see you. You become me so that I cease to exist."

Around these times, among these Sufis, the importance of Islam's worship rituals declined and comtemplation of God and abstinence from worldly and heavenly desires began to emerge. When somebody sent him a carpet to perform prayers on it, Bayazid said: "I combine the prayers of those on earth and those in heaven, stuck them into a pillow and put it under my head." as a way of saying he doesn't need it.

There are some sayings from him that I thought resonate with us well. When someone was looking for him, he is known for saying "I am looking for Bayazid too." probably meaning he was after his real self. As a symbolism from shamanic tradition and alchemy, he says that he "hammered his ego for years to make a mirror from himself."

As he consumed himself with Love of God, there was nothing left from Bayazid, he became a perfect mirror. There is another story that at one time he said: "I swear that there is nothing but Allah under my clothes", indicating he is one with Allah. Then, his followers, shocked by this Revelation, tried to stab him, but him being a perfect mirror caused each stab to be directed at the stabber. He was unharmed but his followers were not so much.

I believe Bayazid is one of the figures that is full of images and symbolism that he was not taken seriously at the time. However, some of these symbols are very similar to what we use on this forum, telling us this is a tradition dates back to ancient times, resurfaced by Gurdjieff and others. You can see that many Sufis in the history were associated with alchemy and they were probably following some doctrine similar to Fourth Way. In this respect, Junayd seems ideal example of sober Sufism, yet there were those like Bayazid and Hallaj that without them, probably Sufism will not have so far reaching effects among the people. Yes they were killed and ridiculed, but I can not help to admire them for their courage.

 

[Biomiast]

Bayazid is one of the first Sufis who thought one should be able to speak divine secrets even if they appear to be crazy in the eyes of the public. Then came a period where Sufism is associated with complex images, hard to understand texts and lots of allegories. This tradition created beautiful poems with esoteric symbolism. And among those poems and its subjects, one man stood up above all who has received praises from these poets. He was called Mansur of Hallaj. He is known to be executed for uttering the words “I am Truth”. Truth here means truthful name of Allah, so essentially Hallaj was saying I am Allah. Never before anybody said such a thing in public and suffered the consequences. Bayazid come close, but he was cautious. However Hallaj thought that one should be able to relinquish his/her life for Allah, otherwise one can’t say he/she loves him more than anything.

Hallaj is also a Persian Mystic. He was a follower of Junayd, however, look how different they were from each other at the end. There is a story that when Hallaj returned from pilgrimage and knocked Junayd’s door, Junayd asked “who is there”, and Hallaj answered “I am Truth!” From that time, Junayd thought Hallaj’s end will not be a pleasent one.

As he began to preach these words publicly and talked about Unity of Being, the government at the time as well as the good people who don’t want to get out of their comfort zone thought he was dangerous and added to some political games, they have decided to execute him.

Attar describes this heart breaking scene like this:

They have taken him to kill him and 100.000 people gathered around him. He looked at all and said: Truth! I am Truth! It is said that a dervish asked him: “What is love?” and he answered: “You will see it today, tomorrow and the other day.” That day he was killed. The day after that he was burned and the day after his ashes were scattered into the wind.

His las words were on how one must be purified to meet God. He was probably referring to his own execution, he yearned to be killed to reach beloved.


As I said before, Junayd was a sober Sufi and he thought that Bayazid and Hallaj are doing the wrong thing by giving into their ecstasies and utter the words that would draw public attention. During Hallaj’s trial, Junayd was opposed to him. He thought that it was wrong for Sufis to draw such attention, they should do their business and never confront with the public.

Hallaj has some interesting ideas on various questions of Sufism. For example his views of Satan is very interesting.

The legend says when Allah created Adam, It commanded angels to worship him, but Satan was refused to do that. For this reason he was banished and he swore to distort humans from the path of righteousness. Ever since, it was the reason humans sinned. This is the official Islamic interpretation.

However, Hallah thinks differently. To him, Satan is the true believer in the Unity of Being because he refused to worship anything but God. Later, people interpreted these words and here is the decision they have made: Satan is a true believer and if one doesn’t learn Unity of being from Satan, then it can be said that he/she never learned it. Satan rejected God’s command for şt saw that humans, with their love for material world, do not deserve the reverence of angels. It said: “I would do everything in my power for people to sin. Those who reach God despite my best efforts also become God and when he/she is one with God, I will worship them.” Muhammad said that everybody has a personal Satan inside them and when asked what happened to his Satan he responded: “It became a Muslim” meaning he tamed his Satan.

Hallaj also written with alchemical symbolism as well as symbolism from Sufi tradition. He describes fate of a moth who is attracted to light. Here light describes divine knowledge and God and moth describes a Sufi. As Sufis search for divine light, they are like moths. At one time, desire to know the light becomes so intense that moth gets too close to fire and burns. He says even though the moth appears to be burned, in truth it became complete, but it can not describe this experience, it can not come back, it reached the God and became one. As is the case for humans who consume themselves with Divine Love. They may appear to be lost to all, but they are one with God.

As you can see, these thoughts are closely related to Hallaj’s behaviour when he said “I am Truth” He may appear as executed and burned, but in Truth he became one with his beloved.

The reaction to Hallaj’s behaviour is varied. Junayd was not so happy and also some of the others who followed his reasoning. They criticize him for revealing the secret of love. However, Iran and Turk Sufi tradition embraced Hallaj for his bravery and love as he was shown as a perfect example of how one must relate with God.

Some common saying among Sufis:

I was intended to stick to history and ideas of specific people, however, I would like to share some wide spread ideas among Sufis. These are supposedly Allah’s words, but they are not written in Quran, supposedly transferred by Muhammad’s speechs but most of them were probably created by Sufis. For example Allah says:

“The whole Universe couldn’t contain me, so I have fit into the heart of a believer.”

Also something I have previously said before:

“I was a Secret Treasure, I created you to be Known.”

There is also a saying from Muhammad:

Whoever know their false personality, know their God.

There are also common sayings like:

Believer is the mirror of the other believer.

Everything must be destroyed to let God built a house inside a man.

And something curious, I think, Junayd said:

I acknowledge God not with Its Being, but by Its Non-being.

These may not be an exact translations, but there is some ancient and evolving tradition built by great men and women. After these teachings and sayings, there came a period where Orthodox Islam made an attempt to mold religious law Sharia into Sufism and they tried to merge Islam and Sufism. Ghazali being the prominent figure of this attempt did a great disservice to the world, but a great service to the rulers of the time as he was respected above all.

After that phase, after laying the groundwork, Ibn Arabi came with his systematic approach and provided a framework for those who couldn’t comprehend the messages coming from Bayazid or Junayd. He was not the first one to talk about Unity of Being but he did it systematically and intelligently that he is considered as Great Sheik even by Orthodox Islam.

I am not going to talk about Ibn Arabi because I do not have enough knowledge to present him accurately so I want to talk about the later poetic traditions in Iran and Turk Sufi schools. However if anyone wants to chime in and write something about him I would be grateful since he was of paramount importance. I wish to discuss these traditions because I think the imagery is quite beautiful and since these schools used poems to hide the true meaning of the messages.

 

[ana]

The reaction to Hallaj’s behaviour is varied. Junayd was not so happy and also some of the others who followed his reasoning. They criticize him for revealing the secret of love. However, Iran and Turk Sufi tradition embraced Hallaj for his bravery and love as he was shown as a perfect example of how one must relate with God.

Well Hallaj’s story sounds to me as a non productive sacrifice with a scented of self worship without much consideration for external reality, more than a "revealing of the secret of love".

I think the important thing here is to remember that besides the multiple deceptions, not all individuals who achieve some ecstacy states and enlightment do so in the same degree nor they have the same orientation and knowledge.
And it becomes evident in seeing how even among those who presumably process the same mystical dimension, the aproach, understanding,interpretation and translation differs.

Add to the equation the fact that the same happens with those who try to understand "God" trough the work of the sufis or with its help, they greatly differ in knowledge and being.

This is why I see no point in discussing, whether a facilitator should or should not share, unless it is done in an indirect way, it is the law of three, the discernment that must enter the picture in every situation, to meet individuals where they are and give as appropiate because whatever an individual is to learn He or She does so by their very nature, predisposition and choices, and those in service can only act as facilitators according to the needs of the "times".

After that phase, after laying the groundwork, Ibn Arabi came with his systematic approach and provided a framework for those who couldn’t comprehend the messages coming from Bayazid or Junayd. He was not the first one to talk about Unity of Being but he did it systematically and intelligently that he is considered as Great Sheik

I'm not sure Arabi did so in an attempt to make comprehensible the messages Bayazid or Junayd but he provides a good "map" of the immeasurable existence and non existence and states of knowledge and being and although still marked by its affinity or identification with Islam his work is of real help and you can find many parallels with the C's teachings.

You can read The Sufi Path of Knowledge by William C.Chittick where the sufism of Ibn Arabi is detailed :)

 

[Biomiast]

Well Hallaj’s story sounds to me as a non productive sacrifice with a scented of self worship without much consideration for external reality, more than a "revealing of the secret of love".

Hi Ana,

You might consider it that way, but to Hallaj, it was giving his life for his Love for God and thus reaching God. I personally do not think this is a good idea, but if we assume he did this consciously, then from the point of Law of Three, he wasn't looking for some recognition, or profess about his love. He was simply looking for a way to reach his Beloved, so what he did was right and his intentions were pure, osit. On the other hand, if this was unconscious and was done just because of the overwhelming power of ecstatic state, then I agree that it was non-productive. As Junayd said, a person must control his/her experience.

And it becomes evident in seeing how even among those who presumably process the same mystical dimension, the aproach, understanding,interpretation and translation differs.

Yes, this was the point I wanted to convey. There is so much conflicting ideas and schools of thoughts. it gets messy when they move closer to Islam.

I think the important thing here is to remember that besides the multiple deceptions, not all individuals who achieve some ecstacy states and enlightment do so in the same degree nor they have the same orientation and knowledge.

You are absolutely correct! I didn't talk about this, but there were "Sufis" who test each other by performing miracles. One of them threw the other into a river and said: "If he is righteous he will be saved like Moses, if he is not, he will perish like Pharaoh." So performing miracles or experiencing ecstasy doesn't mean one has knowledge and being. I may have fall into that trap in my posts as I wasn't actively thinking about this when I was gathering information.

Add to the equation the fact that the same happens with those who try to understand "God" trough the work of the sufis or with its help, they greatly differ in knowledge and being.

This is true also. I am especially concerned about those who join the sects that profess to have Sufi knowledge and claim to provide ways towards God. I wonder how many of them actually has this knowledge and apply it correctly.

I'm not sure Arabi did so in an attempt to make comprehensible the messages Bayazid or Junayd but he provides a good "map" of the immeasurable existence and non existence and states of knowledge and being and although still marked by its affinity or identification with Islam his work is of real help and you can find many parallels with the C's teachings.

I wasn't suggesting that he was just an interpreter. From what I know about him, he was well above Junayd and Bayazid with his knowledge and ideas. My intention was saying that as compared to the words of Junayd and Bayazid up to that time, Arabi was more clear and more detailed in his works. Sufi Path of Knowledge has been on my to-read-list for some time, but I didn't get the chance so far.

I hope this clarifies, thanks for your input. :)

 

[ana]

Well Hallaj’s story sounds to me as a non productive sacrifice with a scented of self worship without much consideration for external reality, more than a "revealing of the secret of love".

Hi Ana,

You might consider it that way, but to Hallaj, it was giving his life for his Love for God and thus reaching God. I personally do not think this is a good idea, but if we assume he did this consciously, then from the point of Law of Three, he wasn't looking for some recognition, or profess about his love. He was simply looking for a way to reach his Beloved, so what he did was right and his intentions were pure, osit. On the other hand, if this was unconscious and was done just because of the overwhelming power of ecstatic state, then I agree that it was non-productive. As Junayd said, a person must control his/her experience.

But I wonder, Who is and where is the beloved, so that we must "phisically expire" in order to meet him? Is He to be found anywhere specifically?

I think the important thing here is to remember that besides the multiple deceptions, not all individuals who achieve some ecstacy states and enlightment do so in the same degree nor they have the same orientation and knowledge.

You are absolutely correct! I didn't talk about this, but there were "Sufis" who test each other by performing miracles. One of them threw the other into a river and said: "If he is righteous he will be saved like Moses, if he is not, he will perish like Pharaoh." So performing miracles or experiencing ecstasy doesn't mean one has knowledge and being. I may have fall into that trap in my posts as I wasn't actively thinking about this when I was gathering information.

That's it, under the proper light even the most simple thing can be a miracle, at the same time, miracles as some look them for can be a great source of deception.

I'm not sure Arabi did so in an attempt to make comprehensible the messages Bayazid or Junayd but he provides a good "map" of the immeasurable existence and non existence and states of knowledge and being and although still marked by its affinity or identification with Islam his work is of real help and you can find many parallels with the C's teachings.

I wasn't suggesting that he was just an interpreter. From what I know about him, he was well above Junayd and Bayazid with his knowledge and ideas. My intention was saying that as compared to the words of Junayd and Bayazid up to that time, Arabi was more clear and more detailed in his works. Sufi Path of Knowledge has been on my to-read-list for some time, but I didn't get the chance so far.

I hope this clarifies, thanks for your input. :)

Sure it does, thanks :)

 

[Biomiast]

But I wonder, Who is and where is the beloved, so that we must "phisically expire" in order to meet him? Is He to be found anywhere specifically?

One doesn't need to be physically expired, as is the case with Junayd and Ibn Arabi, because from their point of view, they are here to convey knowledge of God in a sober manner for their work to mean something to us. They reached the state where they were dissolved into the God, by getting rid of their false personality and then they reached what Junayd called baqa where God exercised their will through them, they were one with God. I think this means they were in connection with their higher selves.

On the other hand, Hallaj was probably on his fana state where his entire self was consumed by God and yearning for It. If God-which is probably his higher self- decided that it is not necessary for Hallaj to carry out a certain duty, he might as well die and perhaps incarnate on 4th density or in an STO reality. This was his choice from a higher level and as he went, he conveyed a simple message that was repeated throughout history and inspired less-scholarly minds as opposed to works of Arabi and Junayd. Of course these are just speculations if Hallaj was conscious of his actions or he was just a simple fool.

So to answer your question, there is no specific God out there, they were just in connection with their higher selves, Junayd and Arabi decided to stay and write about their experience whereas Hallaj wanted to check out and go somewhere else.

At least this is my current understanding of the concepts in my mind.

 

[ana]

On the other hand, Hallaj was probably on his fana state where his entire self was consumed by God and yearning for It. If God-which is probably his higher self- decided that it is not necessary for Hallaj to carry out a certain duty, he might as well die and perhaps incarnate on 4th density or in an STO reality. This was his choice from a higher level and as he went, he conveyed a simple message that was repeated throughout history and inspired less-scholarly minds as opposed to works of Arabi and Junayd. Of course these are just speculations if Hallaj was conscious of his actions or he was just a simple fool.

As the C's say "God" is all existence in creation, all consciousness. All existence in creation is consciousness, and vice versa. Certainly there are several states (awareness) and then we have STS and STO orientations.

So what means to be consumed by God? Which God? Which name?

Names of God

This is the Sufi term for the principles or archetypes of which creation is composed. Every attribute of anything actual or possible, whether general or specific, spiritual or material, beautiful or ugly is a name of God. Since God is at the source of creation, there is nothing in creation that does not reflect some aspect of God. Man is a sort of empty container of potentialities which may navigate the universe of the names of God and come to embody and manifest diverse names, according to his capacity for discernment and free will.

In a sense, all is one and there is nothing that does not derive from God but from the human standpoint the divine names can be radically different.
We may compare the idea of names of God to the idea of thought center in the Cassiopaea material.

Thought Center

The ray of creation starts with a division in two distinct thought centers, these being of 'being' and 'non-being', also known as service to others/radiance/expansion and service to self/absorption/contraction. The term used will depend on the context and on what aspect of this fundamental duality one is discussing.

These thought centers then divide and branch into all conceivable variations of these themes. A thought center is not limited to any particular density. They can be thought of as orthogonal to density, with the essential idea of the thought center finding a density specific manifestation at each level.

For example, a subdivision of the thought center of non-being can manifest in 2nd density as the crocodile species, in 3rd as a certain type of psychopath and in 4th density as the 'lizzie.' The invariant idea here is a form of predation.

An individual can be seen as a crossroads of thought centers. The individual's free will consists in selecting alignment to one thought center or another. Thought centers interact with creation by being expressed by beings.

Stalking or Precis on The Good and The Evil

In the higher densities, the Name of the Game is Consciousness. This simply means that the higher densities of existence, whether positive or negative in orientation, all recognize that the business of all being and existence everywhere is always that of Consciousness… becoming more and more “Aware.” Awareness is related to “density” of consciousness, so to say. The STS way of achieving “density of consciousness” is to “gain weight” by assimilation of other consciousness units. This is generally promoted as “All is One” and refers to “evil” as a “rebellion” or a fault or something that will ultimately be “done away with.”

STO, on the other hand sees “gaining weight” in a different way. It sees that an acknowledgement of the consciousness of “other self” as equal to its own consciousness, in spite of completely different manifestation of that being, is the way to “network” the consciousness so that the Whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

The difference is that the STO guys recognize consciousness as being an “integrative” activity of mutual networking and interdependence because they view all others as self, even if they are different, and therefore seek to help and assist because the other IS self in an absolute internal sense. In this way, Absolute Consciousness, or God is “glorified” by a marvelous diversity of being if you wish to put it in those terms.

The negative guys, on the other hand, play the game in terms of domination, subjugation and absorption of other consciousnesses into “One.” . But, they too, understand that the rules of the game posit that in order for them to truly “absorb” into their being these other “consciousnesses,” that the “other” must choose to become part of their “self-aggrandizement.” An unwilling “food” is, in essence, not “nutritious” so to say. If the consciousness does not choose, it becomes a “poison” to the consciousness that seeks to “eat it.” And so they must promote “Oneness” in a very particular way.

Note that both sides acknowledge “Oneness,” but in very different ways.

Now you say Hallaj "was probably on his fana state where his entire self was consumed by God and yearning for It"

Negative consciousness is the SELFness of creation – the gravity that draws all that exists back to itself. It is the aspect of the ONE involved in contemplation and rejection of creativity in its own heart, frozen in that moment of “vertigo” experienced at the outrush of creative energy.

The only way it can achieve that ideal narcissistic withdrawal into itself in infinite Self-contemplation is through reclaiming all Attentiion and consciousness that is, in effect, “borrowed against” the inconceivable magnitude of Consciousness in Cosmic Sleep.
Darkness becomes, in effect, an incurable insomniac!!!

Certainly there are many possibilities but we have some clues:

"Hallaj thought that one should be able to relinquish his/her life for Allah, otherwise one can’t say he/she loves him more than anything".

"he yearned to be killed to reach beloved".

The “Darkness” is, in fact,a State of Consciousness that has existed from the very beginning of individuation and which COVETS ATTENTION FOR ITSELF ALONE.

This consciousness hates, fears and deeply distrusts Creation, and just wants to effectively “roll over and go back to sleep” in eternal union with the “mother/father.”

The difference is that the STO guys recognize consciousness as being an “integrative” activity of mutual networking and interdependence because they view all others as self, even if they are different, and therefore seek to help and assist because the other IS self in an absolute internal sense. In this way, Absolute Consciousness, or God is “glorified” by a marvelous diversity of being if you wish to put it in those terms.

So which name called upon him?

 

[Biomiast]

I understand what you are saying. A statement saying "I am Truth" can be said by both STS and STO, just their intentions are different when they say it, and they have completely different perspectives, state of minds when they say it.

I can not say what was going on inside the mind of Hallaj. Was he looking for recognition and fame so much that he was willing to give his life? Perhaps. Was he some kind of imposter, trying to get masses to worship him, or was he some kind of sect leader that wanted to attract some followers? Also possible. He consumed himself with base desires, so this can be called consuming oneself with God.

On the other hand, opposite is possible. He burned his base desires to better understand the existence as we are doing right now. In that case his false personality was consumed with his contemplation, knowledge and will. If he followed that path, the name of the god he called upon him would be Truth.

So in either case, self is consumed, but one of them is true self, and the other is false self. At the end of the first path, you would be associated with STS and at the end of the second path, you would be associated with STO. As to which name called upon him, I can not give a definite answer. However the phrases I have used and negativeness of the event doesn't necessarily mean it was a STS oriented name of God, it may also be an STO oriented action and name, trying to enlighthen the masses by his selfless death. I do not think I know which one it is, I am just saying both of these possiblities are open.

 

[ana]

I understand what you are saying. A statement saying "I am Truth" can be said by both STS and STO, just their intentions are different when they say it, and they have completely different perspectives, state of minds when they say it.

I can not say what was going on inside the mind of Hallaj. Was he looking for recognition and fame so much that he was willing to give his life? Perhaps. Was he some kind of imposter, trying to get masses to worship him, or was he some kind of sect leader that wanted to attract some followers? Also possible. He consumed himself with base desires, so this can be called consuming oneself with God.

Not only that, the individual in most cases may not be completely conscious of the implications of a state, He is simply possesed bypassing reason and conscious decision making. We return here to the subject of "Bidding"
http://cassiopaea.org/2010/09/14/michael-topper-on-stalking/

“Bidding” is a contest of will, rendering the consciousness that obeys into enslavement through its own free will.

On the other hand, opposite is possible. He burned his base desires to better understand the existence as we are doing right now. In that case his false personality was consumed with his contemplation, knowledge and will. If he followed that path, the name of the god he called upon him would be Truth.

So in either case, self is consumed, but one of them is true self, and the other is false self. At the end of the first path, you would be associated with STS and at the end of the second path, you would be associated with STO.

This work has nothing to do with a need for physical expiration, nor with the desire to dissolve and be one with God. God/consciousness is to be found everywhere and in everyone, in countless "forms" that express their different properties.

The self doesn't need to be consumed it can be discovered and actualized according to our nature, predisposition and choices.

As to which name called upon him, I can not give a definite answer. However the phrases I have used and negativeness of the event doesn't necessarily mean it was a STS oriented name of God, it may also be an STO oriented action and name, trying to enlighthen the masses by his selfless death. I do not think I know which one it is, I am just saying both of these possiblities are open.

Well, what I do is to try to compare it with the work others do, Laura for example, and frankly, I don't think I would have learned much if She has just decided to teach us by saying Bye! in order to be one with "God".

As the saying goes: By their fruits ye shall know! :)

 

[Biomiast]

This work has nothing to do with a need for physical expiration, nor with the desire to dissolve and be one with God. God/consciousness is to be found everywhere and in everyone, in countless "forms" that express their different properties.

The self doesn't need to be consumed it can be discovered and actualized according to our nature, predisposition and choices.

I can see that you are not comfortable with the idea of dying to reach God. If I presented the story as such, this was because of the Sufi terminology and teachings use the words consume and actual dying is also specific to this particular case. To put it in C's terms, dissolving means getting rid of all the programs and opening your higher emotional and intellectual centers so you become a channel in this world. Also Mouravieff talked about Second Birth and how one must die in order to be born again. At that point, according to the decisions coming from higher planes of existence, which the channel can comprehend because he/she dissolved his/her "existence", he/she decides to carry out a mission to enlighthen masses.

In majority of cases, this mission was teaching others, creating communities and writing books to the future. Yet, in case of Hallaj, it was giving his life and teach his ideas in a different way, that is assuming he was conscious again. He didn't die because he wanted to be one with Allah, he died because it was his choice to die to spread his message. I may have mispresented this point before, I am thinking about this just now. :)

Well, what I do is to try to compare it with the work others do, Laura for example, and frankly, I don't think I would have learned much if She has just decided to teach us by saying Bye! in order to be one with "God".

The thing is, Laura and Hallaj do not have the same destiny if I may call it that, so there is no need for someone to die and be one with God, even wanting to die to be one with god is an STS idea, because you want something with your death. However in case of Hallaj, if he was conscious, that would be carrying out his mission. And there is not a teaching perpetrated by Hallaj that claims if you die, you will be one with God. Not in the sense of physical death anyway, for all we know, he meant as the other Sufis and Mouravieff did, that false personality needs to die to achieve your true self.

 

[Oxajil]

Re: History of Sufi Masters

I can see that you are not comfortable with the idea of dying to reach God. If I presented the story as such, this was because of the Sufi terminology and teachings use the words consume and actual dying is also specific to this particular case. To put it in C's terms, dissolving means getting rid of all the programs and opening your higher emotional and intellectual centers so you become a channel in this world. Also Mouravieff talked about Second Birth and how one must die in order to be born again. At that point, according to the decisions coming from higher planes of existence, which the channel can comprehend because he/she dissolved his/her "existence", he/she decides to carry out a mission to enlighthen masses.

If Hallaj had understood ''dying'' in this way, I'm not sure if he would have still gone through shouting what he believed in, but would have started to experiment on these ideas on himself, in his own life, and then could have shared his experiences afterwards. From what I read, it seems he acted out of ignorance or misunderstanding, perhaps ego-related. Also, it's not so clear from your posts where he got his ideas from which he was eager to share. Further, I think what could be closer to truth is ''I am nothing'' (in the context of the Work), rather than ''I am God/Truth'', but that might be just my way of understanding things.

for all we know, he meant as the other Sufis and Mouravieff did, that false personality needs to die to achieve your true self.

I don't see how his act translates to ''false personality needs to die to achieve your true self'', because where did he show that he had a ''false personality'' in the first place, on the contrary, he claimed he was ''Truth'' or ''Allah''...

 

[Biomiast]

If Hallaj had understood ''dying'' in this way, I'm not sure if he would have still gone through shouting what he believed in, but would have started to experiment on these ideas on himself, in his own life, and then could have shared his experiences afterwards.

Well, Hallaj was a student of Junayd and others, also he has written books and thought hard about existence and his false personality judging from his early life. Judging that he was executed when he was 64 years old, I don't think that when he found out he was one with God, he just wandered around and said "I am Truth." If it was his decision on higher levels, and if shouting "I am Truth" inspired many sufi traditions, and if he is doing this in a selfless way, meaning there is nothing he wants to gain, this sounds to me like an STO oriented act. He worked on himself, wrote books during his life, and then he uttered these words.

Also, it's not so clear from your posts where he got his ideas from which he was eager to share.

See above, this is a common Sufi knowledge and he worked with various Sufis, he is the first one who shared it openly and directly. Later many Sufis come out and said these things as well.

Further, I think what could be closer to truth is ''I am nothing'' (in the context of the Work), rather than ''I am God/Truth'', but that might be just my way of understanding things.

If you see him as a man 1,2,3 what you are saying is true, but here we are talking about higher than that level. It is not that he omitted the Work and claimed he is God, he performed the Work and he shared his knowledge afterwards.

I don't see how his act translates to ''false personality needs to die to achieve your true self'', because where did he show that he had a ''false personality'' in the first place, on the contrary, he claimed he was ''Truth'' or ''Allah''...

I think it is my fault that I present these people with their basic ideas, but what I didn't say is, there are years of contemplation, introspection, disciplining oneself is going on in their lives. Otherwise they wouldn't even be considered Sufis among their peers. This is not some dude who decided to channel God and claimed he is God. There are years of Working, research, teaching, writing present in their lives.

 

[anart]

If you see him as a man 1,2,3 what you are saying is true, but here we are talking about higher than that level.

Biomast, I think you would benefit greatly by deeply questioning what you believe about these 'masters'. Blindly believing what you read in a book(s) and projecting your own definitions and understandings on to that material is illusion. Some critical thinking and painful discernment would serve you well.