History of Sufi Masters

[quote author=Biomiast]
There is a story that when Hallaj returned from pilgrimage and knocked Junayd’s door, Junayd asked “who is there”, and Hallaj answered “I am Truth!” From that time, Junayd thought Hallaj’s end will not be a pleasent one.
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In Darkness Over Tibet (link), Illion described putting oneself at level with the Creator as a spiritual sin. Eastern mystics often stress this aspect of "oneness with God" and ecstacy as a sought after state but whether such a pursuit is of STO orientation or not is questionable.

[quote author=Biomiast]
If you see him as a man 1,2,3 what you are saying is true, but here we are talking about higher than that level. It is not that he omitted the Work and claimed he is God, he performed the Work and he shared his knowledge afterwards.
[/quote]

You may find this thread discussing mysticism from a 4th Way perspective interesting.
 
Hi anart and obyvatel,

I can understand what you are saying. I have thought about this and this is what I found concerning my thinking process:

I am familiar with a few Sufi traditions and teachings or books that I enjoy deeply, these include Yunus Emre, Alevi Bektashi tradition, Attar and Rumi and as I reviewed their work, they had a deep respect for Hallaj. Personally, I am not a fan of Hallaj but I came to know him through their writings. And I thought to myself if these people that I like so much thinks this guy is good, then he must be good. And I structure my entire thinking based on this assumption.

Obyvatel, your thread was really good, and I think I benefitted from it. However, here is where I have a puzzlement regarding my assumptions. Since I assume that Hallaj is good because people mentioned above said he is, then accepting he is an experience seeker and not a real Sufi master causes me to evaluate the people above with the same way. I guess this is what anart alluded to when she said painful discernment.

So if we go back to the reason why I like the traditions above, they inspired me to seek truth, I get this feeling of closeness and elevation when I read or listen to their material. This in itself may not mean anything as obyvatel mentioned in his thread, it is just my perception and feeling, and not objective reality. I guess what I wanted to ask is, do you think that I possess the same faulty thinking towards these guys above. I am not sure you are familiar with all of these traditions, but maybe some of them. For example, if I remember it correctly, Ana, you have read Conference of Birds, what are your thoughts on Attar?

Also any comments are welcomed.
 
I think that it is important initially to notice these assumptions. I have put weight in certain people's ideas that I no longer do, but I can still observe, and even honor, the fact that they inspired me at some point. After you do notice that you are giving the benefit of the doubt to one source due to its association with other sources, then what to do with that observation is yet another choice. And of course, having all of these sources be given a fresh look may be a part of this process.
 
Biomiast said:
So if we go back to the reason why I like the traditions above, they inspired me to seek truth, I get this feeling of closeness and elevation when I read or listen to their material.
Maybe, because you experience a new range of emotions, emotions that in some instances go beyond the personal ones we are accostumed to. Now the work begins with its proper preparation so that they serve well as instruments of knowledge and no to be led astray. And for that we need the accompanying growth of reason.
It means that you can't base your hability to discern solely on how you feel in reading the material, you need to make use of your rational faculties to, always reviewing the knowledge you have at your disposal while working to add more.


Biomiast said:
This in itself may not mean anything as obyvatel mentioned in his thread, it is just my perception and feeling, and not objective reality. I guess what I wanted to ask is, do you think that I possess the same faulty thinking towards these guys above.

Just remember it is not a question of black or white, regarding sufism, as with anything else we must put into practice discernment:

Remember this:
"I think the important thing here is to remember that besides the multiple deceptions, not all individuals who achieve some ecstacy states and enlightment do so in the same degree nor they have the same orientation and knowledge.
And it becomes evident in seeing how even among those who presumably process the same mystical dimension, the aproach, understanding, interpretation and translation differs".

Then the material we work with on this forum is really a cornerstone from which we can study and understand ourselves, other individuals and the world, so it is when you are trying to understand a specific material or an individual and you set aside from your mind this knowledge in favour of your rising emotions that you lead the risk of being astray.


Biomiast said:
I am not sure you are familiar with all of these traditions, but maybe some of them. For example, if I remember it correctly, Ana, you have read Conference of Birds, what are your thoughts on Attar?

I think Attar does a good work which tells about the purification of emotions, of their liberation from the personal element and the gradual establishment of the higher emotions of the soul, the ecstasy states through which relations can be stablished with higher levels thanks to the ascending force of this emotions.

However it is not enough for the development and growing of the soul, intellectual knowledge is needed, the main obstacle in leaning only in ecstatic or higher emotional knowledge is that the unitive perception it gives can cloud our hability to for example understand and accept duality, our role in the scheme of things, plurality, and so, be easy prey for deception.
 
Patience, thank you for sharing your insights on the matter, I am grateful.

Ana, it was interesting to observe that you have written what I needed to hear in your first post, but I was too stubborn to understand this. I remember a time when I was introduced to the concepts on this forum and I was trying to bridge the gap between Sufism and Work. I probably made large assumptions at the time and didn't go back to question them.

However it is not enough for the development and growing of the soul, intellectual knowledge is needed, the main obstacle in leaning only in ecstatic or higher emotional knowledge is that the unitive perception it gives can cloud our hability to for example understand and accept duality, our role in the scheme of things, plurality, and so, be easy prey for deception.

I think I was missing that bit, and assumed that if somebody said something, they actually mean it, otherwise they wouldn't say it. However, there is a wide range of possibilities, and even if they meant it. Normally I am a fan of intellectual knowledge, but somehow I forgot this point before. Even now, it is hard to swallow, to reevaluate all of my previous "heroes" but I know what you said is true.

I want to thank all who contributed to this thread. :flowers:

It has been an interesting learning experience, both in terms of shedding an illusion, and also in terms of my arrogance and wrong assumptions that I am knowledgeable enough to talk on this topic.
 
Biomiast said:
It has been an interesting learning experience, both in terms of shedding an illusion, and also in terms of my arrogance and wrong assumptions that I am knowledgeable enough to talk on this topic.

Glad, just fear not talking of this or any other topic, of what you have already found, if there is already some knowledge it can be solidified, if there is little it can be amplified and even if there is none it can help us make our first steps, in any case it can be helpfull, for you, for those who interact with you and for those who are observing. So keep on going :flowers:
 
Biomiast said:
Obyvatel, your thread was really good, and I think I benefitted from it. However, here is where I have a puzzlement regarding my assumptions. Since I assume that Hallaj is good because people mentioned above said he is, then accepting he is an experience seeker and not a real Sufi master causes me to evaluate the people above with the same way. I guess this is what anart alluded to when she said painful discernment.

So if we go back to the reason why I like the traditions above, they inspired me to seek truth, I get this feeling of closeness and elevation when I read or listen to their material. This in itself may not mean anything as obyvatel mentioned in his thread, it is just my perception and feeling, and not objective reality. I guess what I wanted to ask is, do you think that I possess the same faulty thinking towards these guys above.

Hi Biomiast,
Do we really know enough to say if someone is a real master coming from any tradition? Gurdjieff remarked that one can only see at his own level.

One of the ways we tend to get misled is that once we read or encounter some valuable and enlightening material, instead of keeping ourselves focused on the message and using discernment, we tend to start to eulogize the messenger. Then anything that comes from the messenger may be accepted without critical appraisal. In the end, I think it is more important for us to always be alert and question what we read as well as our own thinking process than to form a definitive opinion about others.

My current understanding is that often things which may be very useful to us can be said by people of questionable motives; similarly if we tend to accept without question the ideas of even the most benevolent and knowledgeable of beings, it can be harmful to us. In the end what matters is how we are able to understand and integrate any material in our lives in keeping with our overall aim and life path.

fwiw
 
Ana said:
Glad, just fear not talking of this or any other topic, of what you have already found, if there is already some knowledge it can be solidified, if there is little it can be amplified and even if there is none it can help us make our first steps, in any case it can be helpfull, for you, for those who interact with you and for those who are observing. So keep on going :flowers:

Indeed. I will keep this in mind, thanks for the advice. :)

One of the ways we tend to get misled is that once we read or encounter some valuable and enlightening material, instead of keeping ourselves focused on the message and using discernment, we tend to start to eulogize the messenger. Then anything that comes from the messenger may be accepted without critical appraisal. In the end, I think it is more important for us to always be alert and question what we read as well as our own thinking process than to form a definitive opinion about others.

Now, I can see how I based my knowledge on assumptions. This is what happens when you stop thinking and do not use your own reading instrument. And as you said even with the most benevolent message, such an attitude leads to a harmful outcome.
 
One of the ways we tend to get misled is that once we read or encounter some valuable and enlightening material, instead of keeping ourselves focused on the message and using discernment, we tend to start to eulogize the messenger. Then anything that comes from the messenger may be accepted without critical appraisal. In the end, I think it is more important for us to always be alert and question what we read as well as our own thinking process than to form a definitive opinion about others.


Now, I can see how I based my knowledge on assumptions. This is what happens when you stop thinking and do not use your own reading instrument. And as you said even with the most benevolent message, such an attitude leads to a harmful outcome.

On the Sufi path, one should use their discernment while searching for a Master. However once one has chosen a Master, it is no longer appropriate to critically judge what comes from their Master, as the Master operates on a higher level of consciousness. Criticism may be appropriate to a philosophical path but not so much to a mystical one. For the mystical path, reflection and self examination are a good use of your intellectual abilities. There is a danger of a harmful outcome if you chose a false Master who is a reflection of your own corruption.

“For ages the saying has been ‘The master’s infidelity is the disciple’s faith,’ meaning that if the master says something contrary to the disciple’s beliefs or does something against the disciple’s wishes, and the disciple remains loyal to him, it is proof that the disciple truly has faith in the master. There are very few disciples in the school of Sufism who love their master as he is and not as they would like him to be. For this reason, a true Sufi is a rare thing in this world.” from "Discourses on the Sufi Path"
 
An introduction to some of the main ideas of Sufism was just made by the MindMatters show. We hope you enjoy it.

MindMatters: Sufism: An Introduction To Its Meaning And Purpose

Over the past few decades a large amount of the Western public's attention has been drawn to Islam in the form of fundamentalist belief and practice. This movement, and its effects on the Muslim community and Middle Eastern societies in particular, has proved nothing short of disastrous for many. But what is largely unknown to most is the inner tradition, wisdom and philosophy known as Sufism; what some consider to be the 'mystical' dimension of Islam. Through the poems of Rumi, the writings of Ibn Arabi, and analysis by academics like Prof. William C. Chittick we come to learn that Sufism - as it was inspired and conceived - laid out a cosmology for individuals that sought to help individuals grow 'spirituality' through the rigorous use of their minds.

This week on MindMatters we discuss several ideas central to Sufism: the nature and value of 'transmitted' knowledge - compared to direct knowledge and understanding, the striving towards perfection of man's inner nature, and the process of nothing less than coming closer to God; knowing one's self in order to know God, and vice versa. Along these lines we also look at some correspondences with Gurdjieff's philosophy and methods for working on the self. Far from being a mere footnote in religious and philosophical thought, Sufism couldn't be more relevant to a world that has effectively moved away from God and away from one's own relationship to the higher order of the Universe.


 
The MindMatters crew is very happy to have had a chance to talk about the ideas and life of Ibn Arabi with wonderful guest/author Stephen Hirtenstein - who proved as eloquent as he was knowledgeable. Enjoy!

MindMatters: Ibn Arabi, the Unlimited Mercifier: Interview with Stephen Hirtenstein

For many in the West, their first encounter with the 13th-century sufi mystic Ibn Arabi will be in the Turkish drama Resurrection: Ertugrul, available on Netflix and YouTube, where he is portrayed as a wandering spiritual master and adviser, always ready to dispense with the perfect wisdom in any given situation. But who was Ibn Arabi in real life? And why is he called the "Greatest Master"?

Today on MindMatters, we interview Stephen Hirtenstein, editor of the Journal of the Ibn Arabi Society, co-founder of Anqa Publishing, and author of several translations of Ibn Arabi's works as well as the book we discuss today: The Unlimited Mercifier: The Spiritual Life and Thought of Ibn Arabi. We discuss some of Ibn Arabi's major works, the visions that inspired them, his own remarkable spiritual development, and some of the core meanings unveiled in his prolific output.



 
Caught the talk yesterday - wow, so much to think about...

Really enjoyed the visual/thinking aspects of what Stephen was recounting - the story telling, the i and I (treasure), visualized circle, Ibn Arabi's life in Spain (interesting influences), and of course his visions.

Paid attention to the books he is working on, and in particular his description of the Arabic alphabet's multi-dimensions or faces in letters.

Excellent guest, great presentation, and joint thoughtfulness as hosts!

Thanks!
 
The MindMatters show had an opportunity to have the wonderful Stephen Hirtenstein back on to delve further into the writing and philosphy of Ibn Arabi:

MindMatters: Ibn 'Arabi's Alchemy of Human Happiness: Interview with Stephen Hirtenstein

The philosophy and practice of alchemy, in one form or another, has been around for millennia and espoused by many different cultures, the idea centering around the chemical and physical transformation of some common ore to its highest most valuable state, gold. Modern chemistry naturally discounts this view as outdated and simply not true. But what if that is to miss the point? What if the true alchemical process has little to do with base and precious metals and everything to do man's inner state of being - and the state of his soul?

One of the most important sections of Ibn Arabi's prolific Futūḥāt, the 167th chapter called 'The Alchemy of Human Happiness', focuses on this very subject. Joining us this week on MindMatters we again have the opportunity to discuss the wisdom of the Sufi master Ibn Arabi with Prof Stephen Hirtenstein and his own translation from the original Arabic of the chapter in question.

Can self-perfection bring happiness? Are there paths by which this happiness may be attained? And can personal fulfillment be a byproduct of such a path? Join us as we ask these questions and examine the text that may bring the alchemical process much closer to the everyday work of self growth than one might otherwise imagine.


 
The MindMatters show had an opportunity to have the wonderful Stephen Hirtenstein back on to delve further into the writing and philosphy of Ibn Arabi:

Fwiw, see that Stephen (with Pablo Beneito) has released his new book:


From email received:
We are delighted to announce the publication of Patterns of Contemplation, a new book by Pablo Beneito and Stephen Hirtenstein: a study and translation of a unique prayer on the reality of the Human Being called ‘The Blessing-Prayer of Effusion upon Muhammad’ (al-Ṣalāt al-fayḍiyya al-Muḥammadiyya).
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The centrepiece of the book is an English translation of the Blessing-Prayer alongside a critical edition of the Arabic text, with a detailed commentary on the prayer. In addition, there are 5 introductory chapters which present the authors’ findings on the contemplations, images and symbols embedded in the Blessing-Prayer. In particular, they detail the alphanumeric sciences of letters and numbers, geometry and the metaphysics of Being in relation to the works of both Ibn ‘Arabi (d. 1240) and Abdullah Bosnevi (d. 1644). There are also 5 appendices with a transliteration and Spanish translation, poetical and structural analysis, and The Prayer of Blessing by al-Mahdawi (d. 1224).
This is an open-access title, generously supported by the Ibn ‘Arabi Research Initiative at Monash University, Australia: it is now available for pdf download here as well as advance orders (hardback).
“This fascinatingly complex volume actually covers a wide range of subjects that are all connected in various ways to a metaphysically complex invocation attributed ostensibly to Ibn ‘Arabi, which first appears in a commentary by his well-known later commentator al-Nabulusi—some five centuries after the Shaykh’s passing—and which the authors of this volume persuasively attribute to Abdullah Bosnevi… What readers today can begin to discover in this pioneering volume is the depth and creative diversity of the Shaykh’s ever-widening influence and creative cultural appropriation in very different regions of the Muslim world, especially in Sufi or even more broadly popular devotional settings” (James Morris, Boston College, USA)
“An extraordinary achievement: the Science of letters combined with numerical and geometric symbolism in particular is treated with thorough investigation and deep insight. The reader is taken by the hand, and even those who do not possess a specific training, nor that particular aptitude that would be desirable for such a peculiar and essential field, should be able to follow and appreciate the articulated dimensions of this "Pythagorean" vision of existence” (Paolo Urizzi, Perennia Verba, Italy)
At once mathematical and spiritual, Patterns of Contemplation is an innovative and uniquely rich introduction to the science of letters and number symbolism, and itself a rare expression of artistic and scholarly devotion to the study of our human mystical heritage” (Aydogan Kars, Monash University, Australia)
 
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