Historical Events Database - History

[Zadius Sky]

Re: Historical Events Database

Very interesting reading about Procopius there, Laura. I'm currently reading his History of the Wars, which is a fascinating reading. I'm inputting the events as I go.

That is while I'm waiting until this weekend when I will go to one of the libraries at Duke to read through Ridley's English translation of Zosimus' Historia Nova. This is very pricey to buy, but it's more standard and the best translation (containing both English and Greek texts) than the previous translations.

About Zosimus, I've read quite a bit about him and I am wondering if I should input the sources that he derived from (i.e., Dexippus, Eunapius, and Olympiodus) in "source_derived_from" field?

It had been determined by several scholars that he was no original historian but hinted at Zosimus' intention to write his own account of Rome's Fall but never seemed to have completed it because his last book ended before the summer of 410 (likely because he died). Walter Goffart considered him to be the first historian of Rome's Fall, though.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Zadig, in 438, you have a "UFO" listed and the story is as follows:

Severe earthquakes occurred in Constantinople lasting for four months so that the Byzantines fled in fear from the city to the Campus, as it is called, and they spent the days in procession with the bishop in supplication to God. On one occasion while the earth was swaying and all the people were chanting earnestly, 'Lord, have mercy,' suddenly at about the third hour, before the eyes of all, a youth happened to be lifted by divine power into the air and to hear a divine voice ordering him to tell the bishop and the people to say the following [words] in their litany, 'God, who art holy [and] strong, holy [and] immortal, have mercy upon us,' and to add nothing extra. The sainted Proklos accepted this decree and ordered the people to sing in that way and immediately the earthquake stopped. The blessed Pulcheria and her brother, marvelling exceedingly at this miracle, issued a decree that this divine hymn was to be sung throughout the whole world. And from that time all the churches have accepted the custom of singing it to God each day.

The earliest surviving version of the story is by Pope Felix (438-92) in a letter to Peter of Antioch to show that the Trishagion had divine approval [Ep. 3, PL 58: 909-10). Though closer to the event Nestorios in exile had written that God was sending earthquakes until the Trishagion was adopted (Bazaar, 364). See B. Croke, Byz 51 (1981), 127-31. The liturgical commemoration of this was on 25 Sept. Theophanes has placed the account after the deposition of Chrysostom's relics (Jan. 438) so the date may well be Sept. 438 rather than Theophanes' 437. See B. Croke, art. cit. 130 following A. Schneider's suggestion that the impossible date in the Patria (the fifth year of Theodosios) has been corrupted from 'the fifth year of Proklos' (i.e. Apr. 438-Apr. 439). See also Holum, Theodosian Empresses, 189. Mich. Syr. links the four months of earthquakes to John Chrysostom's exile. Cf. AM 5900, n. 1.

I don't think this qualifies as a UFO. I put that category in for objects flying through the sky that are not clearly identified like shields or arrows or whatever.

The above tale is undoubtedly a confabulation. There MAY have been some of those strange sounds such as we are familiar with and there may have been a plasma phenomenon that was human shaped (as we know they can be) accompanied by strange sounds that were interpreted by some young boy who was later assigned the role of levitating.

So, I would be careful about such things. If you can't figure out what to do with it, post it here and we'll discuss it. For now, I would list this as a plasma phenomenon (I've added that as a new sub-category).

What IS astonishing about this was the 4 month long earthquake. What the heck?

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

About Zosimus, I've read quite a bit about him and I am wondering if I should input the sources that he derived from (i.e., Dexippus, Eunapius, and Olympiodus) in "source_derived_from" field?

If there is commentary that reveals the possible source, yes, put it in. OR, if possible, get it from the source it is derived from unless it is lost.

I notice that the earthquake of 365 is listed as coming from Theophanes the Confessor. Zadig... is that you?

Well, the version from Ammianus Marcellinus is much better and older and that should be the version we use. Check my text which includes that. In all cases, I tried to get the earliest version of events. There's no reason ya'll can't be using that and getting the data entered.

 

[shijing]

Re: Historical Events Database

I don't see any way that Asian information, other than astronomical sightings, can be useful to that purpose. And the only way it is useful is if we can associate any of those sighting with Western hemisphere events. Many of the Asian comet sightings might be useless since they may have only been visible from Asia, but we are hoping to find some matches. Sometimes, even if the event is not visible in the Western hemisphere, it may still indicate other celestial or terrestrial phenomena.

I was thinking along the same lines, that making data from other parts of the world as robust as possible would be useful in order to look for correlations with the events in the Western hemisphere. By the way, how far would you like the timeline to extend? Yeomans (1991) goes up to 1700, and Archaeoastronomy in East Asia goes even further. I know you're focusing on the centuries on either side of the turn of the millennium but am not sure how far you want to go.

If you put in the areas of the sky where an event occurred, please put it in English.

OK, I'll start converting those today.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Historical Events Database

Data, can you please add me for the database?

I can do an hour or two per day of Theodoret. If I followed through correctly, nobody has taken him up yet... Otherwise let me know!

I'll review what is done and post doubts if needed.

 

[Zadius Sky]

Re: Historical Events Database

About Zosimus, I've read quite a bit about him and I am wondering if I should input the sources that he derived from (i.e., Dexippus, Eunapius, and Olympiodus) in "source_derived_from" field?

If there is commentary that reveals the possible source, yes, put it in. OR, if possible, get it from the source it is derived from unless it is lost.

Okay. Thanks.

I looked into those sources and here is what I found:

For Dexippus:

Publius Herennius Dexippus (born c. 210—died after 270), Roman historian and Athenian statesman, one of the principal authorities for the history of the mid-3rd century ad.

The Bibliotheca, a 9th-century encyclopaedia by Photius, patriarch of Constantinople, credits Dexippus with three major works: a four-book history of the diadochoi (successors) of Alexander the Great, a history of the struggle of Rome against the Goths from ad 238 until the reign of Aurelian (270–275), and a 12-book annalistic chronicle from legendary times to ad 270.

Although none of these survive, numerous fragments have been recognized in the compilations of later historians. Much of the Scythian History survives in the work of the 6th-century historian Zosimus. Some of the extant passages confirm the contemporary view of Dexippus as an imitator of Thucydides. Several Athenian inscriptions attest to the high public offices held by Dexippus, his father, and his children. According to the Augustan History, Dexippus wrote of rallying about 2,000 of his fellow citizens to repel a Gothic attack on Athens in 267.

More:
_http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/160506/Publius-Herennius-Dexippus
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexippus

For Eunapius:

Eunapius (Greek: Εὐνάπιος; fl. 4th–5th century AD) was a Greek sophist and historian of the 4th century AD. His principal surviving work is the Lives of the Sophists, a collection of the biographies of 23 philosophers and sophists...

Eunapius was the author of two works, one entitled Lives of the Sophists, and the other consisting of a continuation of the history of Dexippus. The former work is still extant; of the latter only excerpts remain, but the facts are largely incorporated in the work of Zosimus. It embraced the history of events from AD 270–404.

The Lives of the Sophists, a collection of the biographies of 23 older and contemporary philosophers and sophists of the author, is valuable as the only source for the history of the Neoplatonism of that period. The style of both works is marked by a spirit of bitter hostility to Christianity. Photius had before him a "new edition" of the history in which the passages most offensive to Christians were omitted.

More:
_http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/195316/Eunapius
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunapius

For Olympiodorus:

Olympiodorus of Thebes (born ca. 380, active ca. 412-425, Greek: Oλυμπιόδωρος) was an historical writer of classical education, a "poet by profession" as he says of himself, who was born at Thebes in Egypt, and was sent on a mission to the Huns on the Black Sea by Emperor Honorius about 412, and later lived at the court of Theodosius II, to whom his History was dedicated...

He was the author of a history in twenty-two books of the Western Empire from 407 to 425, which was used by Zosimus and Sozomen and probably Philostorgius, as J.F. Matthews has demonstrated. The original is lost, but an abstract is given by Photius, who also tells us Olympiodorus referred to himself as poietes, which means 'poet', though in the past this has also been taken as an indication that he may have been an alchemist.

More: _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympiodorus_of_Thebes

Dexippus' works appeared to be lost, but mostly survived in Zosimus'. I may use this guy for source-derived input. He was used to cover 238 to 270 period.

However, the fragments of Eunapius and Olympidorus are in Fragmentary Classicising Historians of the Later Roman Empire (pretty pricey) in two volumes with good translation and commentaries. Zosimus' is basically an abridgement of their works. My university have this, so I'll check this out and compare (right now, it's been checked out until mid-Marth).

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

I know you're focusing on the centuries on either side of the turn of the millennium but am not sure how far you want to go.

Since the meddling that we are concerned with mainly concerns the Roman Empire I pretty much delimited it with the founding of Rome. I think the earliest secure event Yeomans had was in the 7th century BC. If we don't really have any social events to link it to, there's no point in having it go back any further.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

About Zosimus, I've read quite a bit about him and I am wondering if I should input the sources that he derived from (i.e., Dexippus, Eunapius, and Olympiodus) in "source_derived_from" field?

If there is commentary that reveals the possible source, yes, put it in. OR, if possible, get it from the source it is derived from unless it is lost.

Okay. Thanks.

I looked into those sources and here is what I found:

For Dexippus:

Publius Herennius Dexippus (born c. 210—died after 270), Roman historian and Athenian statesman, one of the principal authorities for the history of the mid-3rd century ad.

The Bibliotheca, a 9th-century encyclopaedia by Photius, patriarch of Constantinople, credits Dexippus with three major works: a four-book history of the diadochoi (successors) of Alexander the Great, a history of the struggle of Rome against the Goths from ad 238 until the reign of Aurelian (270–275), and a 12-book annalistic chronicle from legendary times to ad 270.

Although none of these survive, numerous fragments have been recognized in the compilations of later historians. Much of the Scythian History survives in the work of the 6th-century historian Zosimus. Some of the extant passages confirm the contemporary view of Dexippus as an imitator of Thucydides. Several Athenian inscriptions attest to the high public offices held by Dexippus, his father, and his children. According to the Augustan History, Dexippus wrote of rallying about 2,000 of his fellow citizens to repel a Gothic attack on Athens in 267.

More:
_http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/160506/Publius-Herennius-Dexippus
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexippus

For Eunapius:

Eunapius (Greek: Εὐνάπιος; fl. 4th–5th century AD) was a Greek sophist and historian of the 4th century AD. His principal surviving work is the Lives of the Sophists, a collection of the biographies of 23 philosophers and sophists...

Eunapius was the author of two works, one entitled Lives of the Sophists, and the other consisting of a continuation of the history of Dexippus. The former work is still extant; of the latter only excerpts remain, but the facts are largely incorporated in the work of Zosimus. It embraced the history of events from AD 270–404.

The Lives of the Sophists, a collection of the biographies of 23 older and contemporary philosophers and sophists of the author, is valuable as the only source for the history of the Neoplatonism of that period. The style of both works is marked by a spirit of bitter hostility to Christianity. Photius had before him a "new edition" of the history in which the passages most offensive to Christians were omitted.

More:
_http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/195316/Eunapius
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunapius

For Olympiodorus:

Olympiodorus of Thebes (born ca. 380, active ca. 412-425, Greek: Oλυμπιόδωρος) was an historical writer of classical education, a "poet by profession" as he says of himself, who was born at Thebes in Egypt, and was sent on a mission to the Huns on the Black Sea by Emperor Honorius about 412, and later lived at the court of Theodosius II, to whom his History was dedicated...

He was the author of a history in twenty-two books of the Western Empire from 407 to 425, which was used by Zosimus and Sozomen and probably Philostorgius, as J.F. Matthews has demonstrated. The original is lost, but an abstract is given by Photius, who also tells us Olympiodorus referred to himself as poietes, which means 'poet', though in the past this has also been taken as an indication that he may have been an alchemist.

More: _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympiodorus_of_Thebes

Dexippus' works appeared to be lost, but mostly survived in Zosimus'. I may use this guy for source-derived input. He was used to cover 238 to 270 period.

However, the fragments of Eunapius and Olympidorus are in Fragmentary Classicising Historians of the Later Roman Empire (pretty pricey) in two volumes with good translation and commentaries. Zosimus' is basically an abridgement of their works. My university have this, so I'll check this out and compare (right now, it's been checked out until mid-Marth).

Well, if he isn't including environmental events, don't bother. I've listed the most important historians for the period that concerns us, in a post above. I've provided the text that already has hand-picked extracts that only need to be entered. You might concentrate on that for the moment.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Data, can you please add me for the database?

I can do an hour or two per day of Theodoret. If I followed through correctly, nobody has taken him up yet... Otherwise let me know!

I'll review what is done and post doubts if needed.

Well, again, see what I wrote Zadiussky above. There are some historians that are more useful than others.

 

[shijing]

Re: Historical Events Database

Since the meddling that we are concerned with mainly concerns the Roman Empire I pretty much delimited it with the founding of Rome. I think the earliest secure event Yeomans had was in the 7th century BC. If we don't really have any social events to link it to, there's no point in having it go back any further.

OK, I can take out the first two or three entries that I entered which are earlier than that. How far forward would you like to delimit the dates in the other direction? Is there a particular cut-off point that you have in mind?

 

[seek10]

Re: Historical Events Database

I have question on Journals/Bulletin entries in the DB. Some how, I am feeling uncomfortable with whatever I try to insert.

source page ( source 104 in http://www.phenomena.org.uk/page29/page99/page99.html ), says " N.N. Ambraseys, 'A note on the chronology of Willis's list of earthquakes in Palestine and Syria.' Bulletin of the Seismological Society of America, 52, 1, Jan. 1962"

Should be:

source_author : Ambrasey, N. N.
source_title :'A note on the chronology of Willis's list of earthquakes in Palestine and Syria.
source_volume : Bulletin of the Seismological Society of America, 52, 1,
source_page :
source_publisher : Seismological Society of America
source_published_at : California, Jan. 1962
source_derived_from :
source_author_ancient :

That's it. You would not reference the web page or the web aggregator such as the one you found unless you are sourcing the whole collection for some reason.

I DID check for the journal for additional details: http://www.seismosoc.org/publications/bssa/

I do want to warn you that using web sources such as the one where you found this can be iffy. I usually try to get the book or paper sourced and check it. It would be nice to have the journal page numbers...

I was thinking about the quality of information before I started. Thank you for clarifying. Without verifying the sources, it is better not to enter into Database.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Since the meddling that we are concerned with mainly concerns the Roman Empire I pretty much delimited it with the founding of Rome. I think the earliest secure event Yeomans had was in the 7th century BC. If we don't really have any social events to link it to, there's no point in having it go back any further.

OK, I can take out the first two or three entries that I entered which are earlier than that. How far forward would you like to delimit the dates in the other direction? Is there a particular cut-off point that you have in mind?

Well, I would like to take it to Tunguska since we have an ice-core signal there.

I'm doing a couple pages of Yeoman's book a day and will soon be caught up with Zadig.

 

[shijing]

Re: Historical Events Database

Well, I would like to take it to Tunguska since we have an ice-core signal there.

I'm doing a couple pages of Yeoman's book a day and will soon be caught up with Zadig.

OK, sounds good -- I've been supplementing Yeomans using the data from Archaeoastronomy in East Asia, so I'll try to get caught up with you soon and eventually bring it as far as the 20th century.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Eboard, your latest entry, you misspelled "Caracalla" in keywords. A misspelled keyword is useless.

 

[Eboard10]

Re: Historical Events Database

Eboard, your latest entry, you misspelled "Caracalla" in keywords. A misspelled keyword is useless.

Oops, my bad. :/

Will double check all my entries from now on.