You're misunderstanding a lot more than that IMO. If you'd like to discuss epistemology, you can start a new topic. This is not the topic for it.
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Enforcement of VAX escalating
- Thread starter CelticWarrior
- Start date
You're misunderstanding a lot more than that IMO. If you'd like to discuss epistemology, you can start a new topic. This is not the topic for it.
Sybil
Jedi
I have an impression, that most of us expressed our opinion on this matter. There is no need to persistently tear this issue over and over again. One might feel it is slavery, others might not. Be at peace.
Interesting series of tweets here posted a couple of hours ago on omicron that seems to support what I said in my last post about the natural immune systems of the 75% unvaxed in SA causing deleterious mutations in the virus that have effectively neutered it.
https://twitter.com/pieterstreicher/status/1469743346843271175
https://twitter.com/pieterstreicher/status/1469743346843271175
siftingmaterials
Jedi
Oh dear, more data on higher than normal overall mortality, this time from the Netherlands and the bulk of these are not Covid deaths.
www.cbs.nl
Mean while, Omicron still looks like it produces pretty mild disease. Double bad day for the promoters of Covid dogma.
1,250 more deaths than expected in week 48
In the first week of December (week 48, 29 November to 5 December 2021 inclusive), the estimated number of deaths stood at 4,300.
www.cbs.nl
Mean while, Omicron still looks like it produces pretty mild disease. Double bad day for the promoters of Covid dogma.
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We have many boards and topics on this forum that span a broad range of subjects. If your favorite topic is exploring the origin and limits of human knowledge, you can understand how indulging that interest might appear similar to trolling if you were to inject it into any topic on the forum. It would be akin to going around posting "how do you know that?" to every member who posted anything.
More evidence.
www.reuters.com
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the United States reported that 34 of the 43 cases attributed to the Omicron variant had been fully vaccinated. Fourteen of them had also received a booster shot
Most reported U.S. Omicron cases have hit the fully vaccinated -CDC
Most of the 43 COVID-19 cases caused by the Omicron variant identified in the United States so far were in people who were fully vaccinated, and a third of them had received a booster dose, according to a U.S. report published on Friday.
www.reuters.com
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the United States reported that 34 of the 43 cases attributed to the Omicron variant had been fully vaccinated. Fourteen of them had also received a booster shot
woneill1701
Jedi
Could there be another (additional) angle to all this?
What I am thinking is that the “vaccinated” are unwitting foot-soldiers in a war game against a potentially lethal virus (a trial run against something that could REALLY represent a threat to the “elites”…)
My reasoning:
1) Every time a virus mutates it becomes more contagious and less deadly.
2) The best way to force a virus to mutate is to use either a “leaky” vaccine and/or a compromised immune system.
3) If we create a population with both a compromised immune system AND a leaky “vaccine”, we are maximizing the pressure on a virus to evolve into a harmless form ASAP…
(Obviously, the “vaccinated” foot-soldiers are neither informed nor compensated for their sacrifice…)
So the theory is that this is a trial run in preparation for the event that a REAL killer virus appears…
In this event, the “elites” would retreat to their bunkers, while forcibly “vaccinating” the great unwashed with a leaky “vaccine” designed to compromise their immune systems…
Multiple rounds of “vaccines” would force the virus to become benign before the ”elite’s” food supplies run out…
Whereupon they would emerge, with their immune systems and genetics intact, to “save” the rest of us (the survivors)…
Obviously, they would want all ”survivors” to be dependent on them in a master/slave relationship, but the key is that we would be the infantry in a real war against a killer virus, and they would be the real survivors…
What I am thinking is that the “vaccinated” are unwitting foot-soldiers in a war game against a potentially lethal virus (a trial run against something that could REALLY represent a threat to the “elites”…)
My reasoning:
1) Every time a virus mutates it becomes more contagious and less deadly.
2) The best way to force a virus to mutate is to use either a “leaky” vaccine and/or a compromised immune system.
3) If we create a population with both a compromised immune system AND a leaky “vaccine”, we are maximizing the pressure on a virus to evolve into a harmless form ASAP…
(Obviously, the “vaccinated” foot-soldiers are neither informed nor compensated for their sacrifice…)
So the theory is that this is a trial run in preparation for the event that a REAL killer virus appears…
In this event, the “elites” would retreat to their bunkers, while forcibly “vaccinating” the great unwashed with a leaky “vaccine” designed to compromise their immune systems…
Multiple rounds of “vaccines” would force the virus to become benign before the ”elite’s” food supplies run out…
Whereupon they would emerge, with their immune systems and genetics intact, to “save” the rest of us (the survivors)…
Obviously, they would want all ”survivors” to be dependent on them in a master/slave relationship, but the key is that we would be the infantry in a real war against a killer virus, and they would be the real survivors…
United Gnosis
Jedi Council Member
More evidence.
Most reported U.S. Omicron cases have hit the fully vaccinated -CDC
Most of the 43 COVID-19 cases caused by the Omicron variant identified in the United States so far were in people who were fully vaccinated, and a third of them had received a booster dose, according to a U.S. report published on Friday.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the United States reported that 34 of the 43 cases attributed to the Omicron variant had been fully vaccinated. Fourteen of them had also received a booster shot
I'm wondering how you can link this with a straight face, when a few pages ago you were shutting down anybody trying to imply vaccines are risky....
This position, for which you vehemently argued just a short while ago, seems to be in serious conflict with this you are underlining now. As the question was asked of you, 'how do you know?'
I would not dismiss this question as ontological trivia. Even further, I'd dare ask, 'What is it that you believe you know?'
psychegram
The Living Force
Joe likes to argue ;)
As noted many times throughout this thread, it's not black or white. The so-called "vaccines" are not as effective of safe as promoted by the elites and their propaganda outlets, but it's not a instant killer for everybody either. And there are ways to intelligently decrease the possibilities of any ill effect, first by avoiding the injections, and second by taking the necessary measures to reduce the probability and severity of these effects if the injection eventually becomes inevitable. It's not about absolutisms but about degrees.
Governments have done everything possible to compromise the population's immune system, through fear, lockdowns, masks, spreading stupidity, poverty, and now these injections. As for all top-down "solutions", there are short and long term consequences. One could argue whether these consequences are intended or unintended. Maybe they are unintended for the naive who think that it is possible to "save lives" by destroying lives.
Some of these consequences (physical and mental health among other aspects) we are seeing right now, and they are possibly getting worse. Some consequences, like the apparition of autoimmune diseases because of the these factors and the so-called boosters, are to be expected by virtue of what's known from the literature. Whether it will affect 1%, 5%, 50% or more of the population is a complex question because it's multi-factorial. As for the recombination of the covid genetic material with RNA retroviruses, as a French virologist said some time ago, coronaviruses are "champions" of recombination. Even if the probability of recombination that results in a virulent pathogen in a single individual is small, the probability of its occurence in the population at large is compounded to a large extant by the number of injected (and immuno-compromised) individuals. Such a scenario, given how these viruses work and how the events unfold, is probable. The probability, although difficult to quantify, does not seem to be negligible. Future events can be assigned probabilities until they happen. Some events are more or less probable than others.
Governments have done everything possible to compromise the population's immune system, through fear, lockdowns, masks, spreading stupidity, poverty, and now these injections. As for all top-down "solutions", there are short and long term consequences. One could argue whether these consequences are intended or unintended. Maybe they are unintended for the naive who think that it is possible to "save lives" by destroying lives.
Some of these consequences (physical and mental health among other aspects) we are seeing right now, and they are possibly getting worse. Some consequences, like the apparition of autoimmune diseases because of the these factors and the so-called boosters, are to be expected by virtue of what's known from the literature. Whether it will affect 1%, 5%, 50% or more of the population is a complex question because it's multi-factorial. As for the recombination of the covid genetic material with RNA retroviruses, as a French virologist said some time ago, coronaviruses are "champions" of recombination. Even if the probability of recombination that results in a virulent pathogen in a single individual is small, the probability of its occurence in the population at large is compounded to a large extant by the number of injected (and immuno-compromised) individuals. Such a scenario, given how these viruses work and how the events unfold, is probable. The probability, although difficult to quantify, does not seem to be negligible. Future events can be assigned probabilities until they happen. Some events are more or less probable than others.
Not to speak for Joe, but I don't understand how the news post he linked conflicts with what he'd said earlier. (Not that there's anything wrong with having multiple simultaneous conflicting ideas :))
1. "...a lack of evidence that any significant number of the 2 billion people who have received them are dropping like flies..."
2. "Most of the 43 COVID-19 cases caused by the Omicron variant identified in the United States so far were in people who were fully vaccinated"
How do those conflict? It sounds like you're arguing with your own imagined version of what Joe said, not what he actually said. The news post sounds like evidence of exactly the kinda stuff everyone here talks about all the time, like that the vaccines weaken your immune system..As far as I can tell it has nothing to do with large numbers of people suddenly dropping dead..
Ok, I went back and reread the post you quoted, I think I can see where you're coming from... Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like when Joe said "The evidence that vaccines are safe is, for me, available in the form of a lack of evidence that any significant number of the 2 billion people who have received them are dropping like flies and the bulldozers are hard at work.", you interpreted that as him saying "I believe vaccines are safe".. (Fair enough, he said "vaccines are safe", but those words were specifically in the context of a reply to your post)... I interepreted it as "There isn't any evidence that huge numbers of vaccinated people are dropping dead. Therefore, statistically, it seems most likely you'll be fine if you have to get it".. He did NOT say that nothing bad ever happens to anyone, or that anyone should go out and get injected (I'm pretty sure absolutely nobody here is saying that). It seems to me like you read his words "The evidence that vaccines are safe.." and jumped to a conclusion without reading the rest.
Sorry if that's a bit pedantic. Just been surprised to see some people seemingly interpreting what others here have said as meaning "the vaccines are fine actually", when I've seen nothing of the sort. Hmm maybe it's me who's wrong and I've stumbled into a PRO VAXX CONSPIRACY FORUM
United Gnosis
Jedi Council Member
But I didn't want to :/
I mean, considering that for most of the research I've read, he was either actively discussing it or actually collating it, I'd suspect his research on the topic dwarfs mine by at least an order of magnitude
But mine doesn't need to dwarf his to spot the inconsistency :)
It doesn't fit with what I know he knows, from other threads and even what he's getting back to discussing now
I wonder, is it my reporting my statement to my brother ('odds are 1 in 5 won't make it to 18') which incensed him so?
It seems it's as a reaction to that statement that he polarized, 'it is insane to say that one person WILL die!' when that is never something I said... but it did trigger a whole lot of characterizing anti-vaxxers as polarized and hysterical, rather than simply seeing the patterns we've all discussed for months.
United Gnosis
Jedi Council Member
Well, he made a pretty serious point of affirming that vaccines were safe. It was like he suddenly swept all of that content we study and discuss under the rug, 'ah well we know of underreporting, and we know of doctors and nurses whistleblowing, and we know of the statistical games, and we know of ADE, we've suspected things like evolutionary pressure, we've suspected the immune erosion they're now starting to call VAIDS... but lets set all that aside and call you crazy and hysterical, because you said someone you know might be impacted..."
I never said people were dropping like flies...
And all evidence suggests they are dropping, a significant rate, enough for it to be not only anecdotal on the internet, not only noticed statistically, but even noticed at a local level
I mean, In the 6 degrees to Kevin Bacon game, everyone I meet is at most 2 degrees removed from somebody who suffered a significant adverse events... Hysterical?
I estimate the jab casualty rate around 1/1000 at the low end. By casualty, I mean incapacitation, or worse. Where is the evidence that jabs are safer than that, is what I would ask...
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Well that's what I meant - that I didn't think he was saying vaccines are safe, he was just saying that (from how it seems so far) the super dangerous stuff has happened only to a relatively few people out of the world's population. I haven't gone back and reread every post and analysed em all, but that's how it seemed to me.. Just saying I think it's possible you misinterpreted what he said, somewhat.
Have you ever listened to the SOTT NewsReal podcast with Joe and Niall BTW? You'd get a good feel for Joe's character and what kinda of things he might think, from hearing him talk on that :) (sorry to keep talking about you like you're not here Joe!)
Wow, full on :( That's terrible. I can totally understand why you're seeing things the way you do then. It's easy enough for me to remain more distant from it - everyone I know is vaccinated and none of them had anything bad happen, they're all just fine. Never heard anything from anyone I've met IRL, I have only tales from the internet to go on..
So, if you did misinterpret what Joe or anyone else was trying to say in this thread, it could be because of this - the fact that you know a lot of people adversely affected would probably be a pretty strong emotional cause for leaping to conclusions.. if that makes sense.. eg, seeing someone write "vaccines are safe" could "trigger" you into a reaction without taking the context and rest of their words into account? As I said maybe I'm wrong and just talking nonsense, I just really felt like there was some talking at cross-purposes going on in this thread earlier (and not just you United Gnosis)..