Do-it-yourself liposomal nutrients

mb

The Living Force
Re: Re: Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

Horseofadifferentcolor said:
We take vit. pills...

Be careful with that. The information I have been seeing is that taking vitamin pills can be worse than doing nothing. You can easily overdose on specific micronutrients, especially if you are taking other supplements. There is a balance of nutrients that comes from eating whole foods. When you take multivitamins you can end up with imbalances that result in toxicity.

See for example _http://chriskresser.com/9-steps-to-perfect-health-4-supplement-wisely and the articles linked there.

Kresser said:
Be selective with your supplementation.

Multivitamins have become increasingly popular: half of Americans currently take one. But is this a good idea? Most studies show that multivitamins either provide no benefit, or may even cause harm. A study in the Archives of Internal Medicine showed that multivitamins have little to no influence on the risk of common cancers, CVD or total mortality in postmenopausal women. A now infamous meta-analysis in the Journal of American Medical Association, which looked at over 68 trials with 230,000 pooled participants, found that treatment with synthetic beta carotene, vitamin A and vitamin E may increase mortality.

The problem with multivitamins is that they contain too little of beneficial nutrients like magnesium, vitamin D and vitamin K2, and too much of potentially toxic nutrients like folic acid, calcium, iron and vitamin E. This means that multivitamins can actually cause nutrient imbalances that contribute to disease. Another problem is that multivitamin manufacturers often use the cheapest possible ingredients, such as folic acid instead of natural folate – the consequences of which we discussed above.
 

Gimpy

The Living Force
Re: Re: Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

Laura said:
Gimpy said:
Our power poofed...gotta love country living! (and I do)

I'll go ahead and get these then. Hubby noted that the diet is working great, but it may not be enough on its own, when I started having recurring liver trouble.

I agree. Reading through the list of things that the high dose Vitamin C can correct is promising. But the idea of doing it intravenous was daunting. Then, you can't get enough in your system to do the trick orally without hitting the threshold and your bowels going all crazy. So this seems pretty useful to know about and to try for some folks that have conditions.

I'm happy that Hubby is noting improvement. It takes time and it does need to be adhered to pretty strictly for quite awhile, maybe forever. But I can sure tell you that I am one happy person to be out of the endless, dragging, draining, debilitating pain that crippled me for years. I'm almost 61 now, and when I go down the stairs, I feel like I'm in my 30s these days. It's amazing. Not having my legs feel like they are filled with lead is a revelation. It's worth it.

I'm probably one of those who's going to have to remain strict forever. Since going deeper into ketosis, I'm noticing cycles of a sort, almost like the detox systems are trying to blow the pipes clean, if that makes sense? I've had to cut my fat intake back twice so far from the upper right body pain. I'm hoping the vit c can help heal my liver.

I think this is from the MS medications I've taken the last ten years.
 

Galaxia2002

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

Horseofadifferentcolor said:
It sounds to me that using any kind of fat from animal or egg yolk would work also for making the liposomal form, instead of using soy, sunflower, or other veggies. The lecithins are not in pure form only but still would be absorbed through the procces?

Lecithin has the peculiarity that has a part that is water soluble and a part that is oil soluble. It is for that that is used to form water and oil emulsions, it is what allow to make mayonnaise (oils+water) because is present in egg yolk. Oils per se doesn't have that capacity so I can't expect liposomes to form (Liposome is not an emulsion but a special arrange that resemble the cellular membrane because the phosfolpids orders in a bilayer, fats don't do that normally.
 

ytain

Jedi
Re: Re: Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

Galaxia2002 said:
Horseofadifferentcolor said:
It sounds to me that using any kind of fat from animal or egg yolk would work also for making the liposomal form, instead of using soy, sunflower, or other veggies. The lecithins are not in pure form only but still would be absorbed through the procces?

Lecithin has the peculiarity that has a part that is water soluble and a part that is oil soluble. It is for that that is used to form water and oil emulsions, it is what allow to make mayonnaise (oils+water) because is present in egg yolk. Oils per se doesn't have that capacity so I can't expect liposomes to form (Liposome is not an emulsion but a special arrange that resemble the cellular membrane because the phosfolpids orders in a bilayer, fats don't do that normally.

A clue is the liver or kidney or other organ. If the liver of an animal, for example the pork liver has vitamin C, then it is easy to see how we benefit from getting the vitamin C contained in the pork liver, cooked in some form like the liver paté. The same applies for other nutrients found in the liver that benefits us, like glutathione and others. So if we eat the liver paté, we get some form of liposomal form of vitamin C. I have not found yet if liver produces lecithin or uses it from the meals like the eggs.

Ytain
 

Gaby

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

Here is another great review on the subject. Keep in mind that the target audience usually eats a diet rich in carbs, so the benefits of liposomal vitamin C for those on a ketogenic diet but with added medical conditions is very promising!

Another Look at Vitamin C, Pauling was Right

_http://www.sunlightandvitamind.com/news72011.html

The recent identification of an extended role for ascorbate in regulating the hydroxylation of HIF-1 and histone demethylases highlights the necessity for the maintenance of adequate ascorbate in all body tissues to control cell metabolism and gene expression. Our study indicates that, to achieve optimal tissue concentrations, saturated plasma concentrations should be maintained with daily ascorbate intakes at a sufficient level to achieve this…

The daily amount of vitamin C animals make is significantly higher than the amounts recommended by the RDA or the DRI for human sufficiency. Estimated animal/reptile production ranges from 10 (reptiles)-170 mg (goat)-275 (mouse) mg per kilo per day. That range in a 150 lb human is equivalent to 680-18,000 mg, The lowest number is still 7.5 TIMES higher than the DRI for men, 90 mg.

The RDA for pregnant women is 100 mg. vitamin C. Research shows brain development is impaired in the offspring of animals and perhaps humans with low intake of vitamin C.(1,2,3,4,5) Pregnancy is stressful, a good stress but still stress. Stressed rats (retaining GLO and making their own vitamin C) produce the human equivalent of 15 grams (15,000 mg) a day.(6) [...]

Animals show steady and significant production of vitamin C throughout the day and night AND when any stress occurs, physical, such as illness or injury, or mental, such as being caged, transported, abused, or chased, need for and production of vitamin C dramatically increases. As another example, goats make the human equivalent of 13,000 mg daily, and significantly more, as much as 100,000 mg, when under stress.

The pituitary and adrenal glands have one of the highest tissue concentrations of vitamin C. In healthy vitamin C producing animals pituitary ACTH and then adrenal cortisol production rises when stressed, and concurrently, vitamin C production, increasing serum vitamin C. A sufficiency of vitamin C enhances the production of ACTH, cortisol and adrenaline (epinephrine) so that the initial response to stress is improved.[...]

Among other benefits, increased cortisol and epinephrine allow more powerful punches or faster running from danger (fight or flight) and less inflammation if ill or injured. The production and release of large amounts of vitamin C concurrently or immediately following cortisol release rapidly reduces cortisol and epinephrine to within normal range, the pre-stressed state.(7,8,9,10) In animals not producing vitamin C, or those with lower production due to aging, chronic stress may lead to reduction in body stores of vitamin C, exhaustion of epinephrine production and inappropriately elevated cortisol. This has great downsides.

Excess cortisol or inappropriately timed cortisol will slow healing and when dis-regulated contributes to anxiety and mood disorders, insulin resistance, obesity, metabolic syndrome, insomnia and fatigue.(7,8,9,11) Excessive stress may eventually lead to low cortisol and adrenal exhaustion.

A primary reason animals suffer less or not at all from these conditions is because they make their own vitamin C. The post stress production of abundant vitamin C and return of cortisol levels to unstressed ranges, restores tissue vitamin C to be ready for future stress. Humans also release vitamin C during stress but they must take from body stores and as tissue levels are depleted (no GLO) the ability to recover from stress is reduced and eventually lost.

How it works- I am stressed, my cortisol and epinephrine rise, I deal successfully with the stress, as my vitamin C rises (in humans not produced but taken from serum and tissue stores) I return to my healthy, normal, state- unstressed.

When daily vitamin C intake doesn't replenish body TISSUE stores (not serum levels) the system fails.

If we do not make C and we do not take C, over time, we will use up all available body stores and find ourselves with inappropriately elevated cortisol and lower epinephrine production and eventually, if the low C/stress cycle continues, in full adrenal exhaustion, little cortisol production remaining. Vitamin C not only maintains and balances cortisol and epinephrine but, given in appropriate doses, restores normal epinephrine and cortisol production (recovery from the effects of chronic or acute stress including PTSD).

The current accepted treatment for cortisol imbalance/adrenal exhaustion, using adrenal supplements, ginseng, or even cortisol supplementation, all fail to replenish that one important, irreplaceable key to long term health, vitamin C. Even animals may suffer from lack of C if stress is prolonged or when they age, or in poorly bred domesticated animals producing insufficient levels of daily C, all resulting in an imbalance between need and production. Life requires sufficient vitamin C and 75 mg or even 100 mg is not possibly enough.

The Many Reasons We Need Vitamin C

The reasons listed here are only a few of the many studies. More will be published at a later date.

Another critical role for vitamin C is apoptosis, programmed cell death. It appears that one of the roles of vitamin C is to signal damaged cells to die (a good thing).(12,13,14,15)

Genes regulate hundreds, perhaps thousands, of biochemical reactions.

Ascorbic Acid and gene expression: another example of regulation of gene expression by small molecules? Belin, S., Kaya, F., Burtey, S., and Fontes, M. 2010 Curr.Genomics

Ascorbic acid (vitamin C, AA) has long been considered a food supplement necessary for life and for preventing scurvy. However, it has been reported that other small molecules such as retinoic acid (vitamin A) and different forms of calciferol (vitamin D) are directly involved in regulating the expression of numerous genes. These molecules bind to receptors that are differentially expressed in the embryo and are therefore crucial signalling molecules in vertebrate development. The question is: is ascorbic acid also a signalling molecule that regulates gene expression? We therefore present and discuss recent publications that demonstrate that AA regulates the expression of a battery of genes. We offer a clue to understanding the biochemical mechanism by which AA regulates gene expression. Finally we will discuss the question of a receptor for AA and its potential involvement in embryonic development and cell differentiation

While 60 mg., the last 1989 RDA, or even the 2000 DRI (Dietary Reference Intake) of 90 mg. for men and 75 mg. for women may keep us from scurvy it is probable we need more daily to attain and maintain optimal health and it is CERTAIN we need more when under stress, whether illness, injury, or mental/emotional threat. Scientists studying vitamin C label deficiency as scurvy but insufficiency as hypoascorbemia.

The studies determining sufficiency have used serum or leucocyte vitamin C measurements. The problem is, neither serum nor leukocytes may reflect body tissue stores. The pituitary, adrenals, and lens of the eye have the highest concentrations but all tissues contain vitamin C. Tissue levels of vitamin C vary by intake, metabolism (how fast you use it up and whether you recycle) and age.

How tissues function depend on adequate vitamin C. Levels found in mucous membranes and secreting glands may be depleted and impair functioning of those glands and tissues, including the adrenals, pituitary, hypothalamus, thyroid, ovaries, testes, thymus, eye, gastrointestinal tract, and urinary tract, resulting in reduced health and longevity.

Vitamin C is necessary for the formation of healthy collagen, 1/4th of all body protein, which is a part of muscle, arteries, capillaries, vessels, skin, hair, nails, ligaments, joints, tendons, discs, teeth, and bones.

When I wrote Naked at Noon, the clinical literature showed getting enough calcium and vitamin D did NOT reverse bone loss. It did seem to decrease falls and fractures, not a bad thing. It was frustrating to realize D and calcium were not useful to prevent or cure osteoporosis or osteopenia. Clinical studies since that time further confirm while important to bone health D and calcium are not the primary key to healthy regeneration of BONES.

Now I know why. In 2010 a study from Baylor College of Medicine using the KO (gene knock out) mouse showed PROFOUND bone loss, rapid osteoporosis, when mice were stressed and adequate vitamin C became vitamin C deficiency (but NOT scurvy).(16) Getting enough vitamin C throughout one's life, in addition to adequate vitamin D and minerals, may keep bones healthy and prevent hip fractures and the need for hip replacements.(17) Even adding vitamin C later in life may prove to stop and even reverse bone loss.

Adequate vitamin C protects our skin from wrinkles and from sun damage.(18) It is vitamin C in the skin that is responsible for the lipid barrier function of the stratum corneum, a key to healthy aging skin, keeping it moist and supple.(19,20,21)

A note here for those of you seeking younger skin, chemical exfoliation destroys this important barrier and further damages and ages your skin. Vitamin C internally and externally protects and heals, even reversing skin aging. Instead of exfoliation, use oral and topical vitamin C (in the Nutrition Workbook- Topical Formulas section) to improve the health, look, and feel of your skin. My clients have been using the spray since 1999 with exceptional results. It costs about $0.50 for a week's supply.

Low ascorbate status is associated with gallstones and gallbladder disease.(22,23,24,25,26) Increasing vitamin C intake increases bile production, lowering bile saturation and improving absorption of the fat soluble vitamins and essential fatty acids. Vitamin C also decreases cholesterol by improving hydroxylation of cholesterol into hormone production and into bile acids.(23,27,28,29)

A report in the Lancet, March 2001, found those with the highest levels of vitamin C in their blood had one half the risk of death from all causes, including heart disease. Dr. Key Tee Khaw found that there was a decreased risk of infection and heart disease for those with higher levels of C in their blood.(30,31,32) Dr. Khaw has also participated in studies showing the protective effect of vitamin C in preventing diabetes, stroke, hypertension, lung disease, degenerative disc disease, osteoporosis and cancer.(33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40)

Significant research suggests ascorbate status regulates rates of 'secretions' from saliva to cortisol to gastric juices. Ascorbates alter insulin secretion and oxytocin (the feel good pituitary hormone). Vitamin C normalizes production and release of epinephrine and norepinephrine. Dry mouth and dry eyes, dry mucous membranes in general, may be a consequence of insufficient vitamin C. Extra vitamin C may decrease symptoms of aging and menopause. (41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53)

Ascorbate status should refer to tissue levels of vitamin C NOT serum values.

Vitamin C plays a primary role in many hydroxylation reactions including vitamin D3 hydroxylation to the active 1,25(OH)2D and the conversion of l-tryptophan to 5-hydroxytryptophan, the precursor to serotonin. Other such key hydroxylations include that of cholesterol to pregnenolone and then to other hormones including cortisol, testosterone and progesterone, production of normal collagen, and production of carnitine necessary for muscle energy, fat metabolism and muscle strength.

Two of the early symptoms of scurvy are fatigue and depression. Researchers think it may have to do with a lack of carnitine.

In research guinea pigs, who like humans are unable to produce their own vitamin C, given 100 mg vitamin C, 5 mg vitamin C plus 10 mg carnitine, or 5 mg vitamin C (guinea pig RDA) only those given 5 mg vitamin C with 10 mg carnitine or 100 mg vitamin C alone improved carnitine production and only the 100 mg vitamin C group showed reduced triglycerides.(54) In human equivalents the 5 mg dose would be 750 mg daily (150 lb human), well above the current DRI; the carnitine equivalent, 1500 mg (150 lb human); the 100 mg vitamin C group would be equivalent to 15,000 mg (150 lb human). Carnitine allows us to burn FAT for ENERGY. Carnitine insufficiency contributes to fatigue, often profound.

Vitamin C also reduces histamine and has been used to ameliorate allergies, asthma, and histamine induced mood disorders.(55) Vitamin C dependent actions regarding increasing epinephrine, increasing 5-htp/serotonin, lowering histamine and optimizing levels of active vitamin D suggest an amazing variety of functions all related to feeling good. Abundant intake of Vitamin C and C rich foods might make our world much less stressed and happier.

Vitamin C will NOT work by itself. Vitamin C facilitates cell structure and function. Collagen production requires protein, as does carnitine production. Vitamin D requires either a supplement or sunlight. Your immune system needs zinc and protein (and many other things) plus vitamin C. Vitamin C makes what you eat, protein, carbohydrate, fatty acids, vitamins and minerals, work, PERIOD. When Linus Pauling and others described vitamin C they called it the HEALING factor. Healing, building, regenerating, vitamin C makes all elements and thereby bodies work better.

How Much C Do We Need?

Vitamin C may be referred to as ascorbic acid, ascorbate, or vitamin C. In research often ascorbic acid does NOT mean ascorbic acid USP the supplement. Read carefully.

Recommended daily vitamin C intakes from government/healthcare sources range from the 1989 RDA of 60 mg to as high as 100 mg for pregnant women.(56)

Hickey and Roberts have written a downloadable book ($6) Ridiculous Dietary Allowance, An Open Challenge to the RDA for Vitamin C. In it they discuss many of the problematic issues regarding the current RDA and DRI. They suggest a minimum daily dose of 3,000 mg, 1,000 mg with each meal. The ‘with each meal’ part is IMPORTANT. Other living creatures producing vitamin C do so all day long. They don’t dump a big dose once a day. Vitamin C in ALL forms has a very short half life and is rapidly excreted. Once a day just won’t do the job. Hickey and Roberts support their recommendations with science and logic. In disease states their recommended daily dose is higher, 6,000-16,000 mg daily for heart disease; 14,000-39,000 mg if you have cancer.

Animals produce vitamin C all day long and increase production when stressed. Humans taking 100 mg once a day do not come near real sufficiency and even higher doses taken just once a day won’t provide the serum levels necessary to maintain tissue levels of vitamin C.

It is unlikely less than 2,000 mg daily, split into multiple doses taken with food, would ever supply basic needs for children or adults (though you wouldn't have scurvy). Higher ‘mega-doses’ may be beneficial for everyone at certain times or situations but may have adverse consequences in some persons and should not be used without knowing your need and your reaction to ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate. Timed-release vitamin C is NOT. We only absorb in the small intestine and any C not released there is passed out of the body. Timed-release supplements work by coating the element in shellac of varying densities to prevent easy digestion. By the time the coating dissolves the element is no longer in the small intestine. Clinical studies have found no value (value any greater than regular ascorbic acid) in timed-release forms of C.

If you are ill, recovering from surgery, bruise easily, are pregnant or nursing or have been diagnosed with any of the following diseases/conditions you may need higher levels of vitamin C for a shorter or longer period of time.

You will need more C, >=3,000 mg daily, taken in divided doses, if you eat a high fat diet, drink excessive amounts of coffee or alcohol, are under chronic low level stress, suffer from jet lag, or you are sunning in the summer (because your skin needs extra C to protect from the dark side of sunlight). Exposure to intense UV (both A and B) reduces the skin's vitamin C content and it must be restored.

Conditions that may indicate a need for even higher dose (greater than 4,000 mg daily) vitamin C-

allergies(57,58,59,60,61)

asthma(61,62,63,64,65,66,67)

diarrheal diseases including colitis, Crohn's disease, and IBS(68,69,70,71,72,73)

cataract(74,75,76,77,78)

heart disease(79)

hypertension(80,81,82,83)

Type II diabetes(84,85)

anemia(63,64,65,66,67)

cavities(86,87,88)

periodontal disease(43,89,90)

ligament, tendon and joint degeneration(91)

osteoporosis(16)

autoimmune disorders(58,92,93,94,95)

thyroid disease both hypothyroid and hyperthyroid(96)

acute infections(43,97,98,99)

arthritis(100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109)

Use of high dose vitamin C in chronic infections such as Lyme's disease or mycoplasma or Cell Wall Deficient bacteria associated with Chronic Fatigue, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Multiple Sclerosis, Sarcoidosis, hepatitis, herpes, and other chronic diseases of unknown origin is more controversial however some success has been clinically documented using intravenous vitamin C. It is possible the new liposomal C may also be effective. (below)

Supplemental vitamin C may be ascorbic acid, sodium ascorbate, potassium ascorbate, mineral ascorbates, or Ester-C. All have similar actions in the human body. All are poorly absorbed when taken in a single dose greater than 500 mg. All forms will work at low and high doses once you learn how to use them, small doses taken frequently throughout the day with food to increase absorption and reduce digestive problems. None of these types of vitamin C, regardless of dose, taken orally, will reach serum levels necessary to treat serious illness or cancer. Read on to find out about liposomal C.

Some minor cautions- In rare cases bowel tolerance levels (doses high enough to cause diarrhea) of C, ascorbic acid, have caused serious allergic reactions. Stopping high doses of C abruptly may cause temporary rebound scurvy. Vitamin C works better when combined with bioflavonoids such as quercitin or rutin (about 500 mg of either daily). C is water soluble and is rapidly used or excreted, whatever the form.

There is no evidence taking higher doses (greater than 3,000-4,000 mg daily) when you have no apparent need will protect you from infectious disease or improve your health. There is significant evidence taking more vitamin C WHEN NEEDED will profoundly improve your health and lengthen your lifespan. High dose vitamin C may not prevent you from getting a cold or flu but once ill, high doses will rapidly reduce symptoms and significantly shorten the length of time you are ill.(110)

When antibiotics are needed to treat diseases, such as helicobacter pylori, the stomach ulcer bug, or chlamydia, the addition of vitamin C shows clinical significance in improvement/success of treatment.(111,112,113)

Liposomal Vitamin C

In the last few years a new liposomal vitamin C (see below) has been producing results similar to high dose vitamin C at lower doses and at higher doses results similar to intravenous vitamin C. Liposomal C liposome.jpghas shown itself to be efficacious, safe, and affordable.

lip·o·some noun liposomes, plural A minute spherical sac of phospholipid molecules enclosing a water droplet, esp. as formed artificially to carry drugs or other substances into the tissues

The properties of phospholipids allow water dispersible substances to be absorbed into the spherical 'sac'.

Liposomes are present in all living systems. The discovery of the liposome is credited to Alec Bangham working at the Institute of Animal Physiology at Babraham, England in 1961. Initially described as multilamellar smectic mesophases, (don’t say that fast) it was not long after the name ‘liposome’ was proposed and it stuck (and I am grateful).

So, liposomes have been around for 40 years, now frequently listed on cosmetic labels and found in some high tech drugs. Liposome encased vitamin C appeared much later. Diagnosed with heart disease in the 1990s and near heart failure in 2002-2003 Les Nachman, founder and owner of LivOn Labs in Nevada, was introduced to the benefits of "massive" doses of intravenous vitamin C. Seeking options beyond death or a heart transplant he met with alternative physicians in California who prepared a recovery program which included intravenous vitamin C. The program worked, his heart recoverd and Nachman’s sense was that the IV C was the element that made the most profound difference in his recovery.

His experience with high dose intravenous vitamin C, resulting in dramatic improvement to his heart and health, inspired him to undertake the task of finding a more affordable and less invasive way to administer high dose vitamin C. In 2004 LivOn Labs introduced the new LipoSpheric™ Vitamin C, a liposomal delivery system making ingestion of higher doses of vitamin C convenient, affordable and without digestive side-effects (diarrhea).

Liposomes are phospholipid (think lecithin) nano-encapsulations (really small molecules with a sac inside that may be manufactured to contain a vitamin, nutriceuticals or drugs, jpg above).

Currently, manufactured (sterically stabilized) liposomes are being used in the cosmetic industry in skin care products to enhance delivery of nutriceuticals into the skin and in the pharmaceutical industry to increase and target absorption of drugs, particularly antibiotics and chemotherapeutic medications.

Phospholipids, phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylinositol (think lecithin granules), are able absorb and enclose other substances and to emulsify, mix fat and water together. In liposomal vitamin C the water soluble vitamin C, typically ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate, is first thoroughly dissolved in distilled water and then mixed with dry lecithin, absorbing into the water phase of the phospholipid. To further increase biologic activity the solution undergoes a process, either sonication (sound waves) or nozzle pressurized (17000 PSI) bombardment, or ultrafiltration that breaks the vitamin C saturated phospholipids into smaller and smaller phospholipid nano-particles. The process, absorption into water and then into the phospholipid followed by either high pressure bombardment, filtration, or sonication, creates a vitamin C containing phospholipid particle that

1. Allows rapid and direct absorption from the small intestine into the liver and then into your blood.

2. Allows rapid absorption and delivery from the blood into body tissues, the ultimate bioavailability, intracellular delivery, including the mitochondria, endoplasmic reticulum, and even the nucleus of cells.


This improved delivery system not only increases the amount absorbed into blood and tissues, it allows for serum elevations of ascorbate equivalent to intravenous vitamin C.

When vitamin C is ingested in amounts greater than 500 mg about 19%-38% is actually absorbed so a capsule or tablet of 1,000 mg would provide about 190-380 mg to your body. It has to do with bowel kinetics. The higher the oral dose of vitamin C, whether ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate or other mineral ascorbate) the lower the absorption percent; this is similar to what happens when you take calcium, at 250 mg 40% absorption, 2,000 mg 14% absorption (Heaney, see the Workbook).

Due to the phospholipid shell and small particle size liposomal vitamin C has absorption percentages ranging from 70-93% providing 700-930 mg per 1,000 mg of liposomal C, an increase of 50-75% more per equivalent ascorbic acid dose. And because the liposome does not increase water kinetics higher doses are not lost in the bowel (diarrhea).

Vitamin C has shown promise in cancer treatment when serum levels remain extremely high over a 24 hour multi-day (24/7) time period. This level has only been possible using thrice weekly high dose intravenous vitamin C. Studies show serum levels using oral liposomal C reach levels equal to those levels found to be effective in cancer treatment.(13,114,115,116) This ability to reach higher serum levels of vitamin C is equally important if you have a chronic illness or degenerative disease whether heart disease,(32,117,118,119,120,121) osteoporosis, degenerative disc disease(122) or joint degeneration.

Three companies currently produce different versions (different additives, concentrations, flavorings, packaging) of liposomal vitamin C. LivOn Labs http://livonlabs.com ; Let's Talk Health http://letstalkhealth.com ; and Empirical Labs http://www.empirical-labs.com Of the three companies Let's Talk Health has the best buy.

Each company uses a slightly different formula and different additives but the results are the same, liposomes, providing easy and safe delivery of high dose vitamin C. PLEASE if you decide to order read LABELS. Some using the Let’s Have Health Liposomal Vitamin C have been taking 2-3 times what is necessary because they did not read the label. DO NOT use the cup/cap that comes with the product for measuring. You will end up taking too much. If you need help make a phone appointment. 1-775-831-0292

It is also possible to make your own liposomal vitamin C. There are recipes on the internet. My clients (only) may request a tested and refined recipe from me by email. To become a client click here.

Tissue Levels of Vitamin C, The Answer to Those Questions

Getting enough vitamin C is truly important. Only when vitamin C intake is more than sufficient will your tissues be replete. We can’t test human tissues, not while we are still living, so we need to learn from animal studies.

A New Zealand study(123) published in December 2010 looked at tissue levels of vitamin C in GULO- mice bred to lack the enzyme l-gulono-lactone oxidase (GLO or GULO) needed to produce their own vitamin C (just like humans). The tissues of these GLO-less mice, after being depleted of vitamin C and/or given various daily doses of vitamin C, were compared with tissues of 'wild-type' mice that make their own vitamin C.

The researchers knew serum levels of C tend to stay within a certain range even with increasing daily doses of vitamin C. This fact is why the DRI (Dietary Reference Intake) has been determined to be 90 mg. for men and 75 mg for women. Greater doses did not appear to raise serum vitamin C much higher and vitamin C began to spill into urine, so researchers determined this amount to be MORE THAN enough.

But serum levels might not reflect tissue levels. The GULO+ mice researchers sought to discover what happens within tissues.

When vitamin C was withheld dramatic losses of vitamin C occurred rapidly in all tissues except the brain, though even there levels dropped as deficiency progressed. This is similar to humans where the brain is the last and slowest organ to deplete C before full blown scurvy occurs.

To replete tissue levels serum vitamin C had to be fully saturated daily. The mouse dose to prevent scurvy, 1.65 mg/d was unable to do that. To keep serum and thereby tissues saturated (equal to the 'wild-type' mice who make their own C) required 10 times (16.6 mg/d) the amount of vitamin C needed to keep mouse serum C and brains within 'normal' range. Tissue levels did not 'fill up" until the mice were regularly given much higher (greater than 'mouse' RDA) levels of vitamin C. It also took some time at the higher levels for tissue levels to 'fill up'.

An average mouse weighs 25 grams, so the vitamin C dose used to replete tissues is equivalent to 660 mg per kilo, 50,000 mg for a 150 lb human. I am NOT suggesting humans need that much just that they surely need more than 100 mg.

Getting tissue levels of vitamin C optimized, ALL tissues, takes time. There appears to be a mechanism with living organisms to retain C (not store it) when daily intake is less than abundant.

The answers to those questions- Will IV C treat cancer? Maybe, the researchers are still working on the question, but it certainly will help and not hurt during any type of treatment. However, keeping all cells vitamin C adequate throughout one's life most certainly will contribute to preventing cancer, all types. Why did the IV C feel so good, normal, and then three days later a return to misery? If all tissues are not saturated with C things just don't work the way they are supposed to. Super-saturation by IV got things 'working' but without underlying tissue stores it just won't last. Vitamin C is not an element (like a mineral or protein or fatty acid) but a facilitator. Vitamin C makes everything work the way it was INTENDED to work. Giving vitamin C to mice bred to express Werner's Syndrome (early premature aging) completely reverses the syndrome. Vitamin C regulates both the creation of new bone and destruction of old bone promoting a healthy skeleton, young and old.

Serum C does not and will NOT reflect tissue levels. What tissues? Every tissue, every cell in your body, skin, muscle, bone, teeth, all organs, pituitary, adrenals, heart, kidney, liver, ovaries, testes, and your brain, contain and require vitamin C.

In addition, tissue levels of C may be low, 'normal' or high and the range of normal is quite broad. In my opinion, supported by the research, high normal TISSUE levels should be the goal. Unfortunately your tissue levels cannot be tested until you're dead. The only way to make sure you have enough is to take enough and spend some time figuring out what that means for YOU.

Persons with Parkinson's, Huntington's and Alzheimer's have low levels of vitamin C in the brain.(124) Sun damaged skin has low levels of vitamin C. In gastritis the stomach lining has low levels of vitamin C. Breast cancer tissues have low levels of vitamin C. It is likely other diseased cells also have less than optimal vitamin C. We can’t check until the person or animal with the condition dies.

I'll bet MY LIFE it is VERY important how much C you have in your cells/tissues, not just in your blood. As with ALL nutrients the blood is the LAST place you will see a deficiency, all organs and tissues being depleted prior to appearance of inadequate serum values. If you are low in your blood you are truly, cellularly, deficient even if you don't have scurvy.

UNLIKE vitamin D, a fat soluble nutrient that stores in the body and can result in toxicity (hypervitaminosis D), vitamin C is water soluble, rapidly oxidized, with a fast turnover rate so that even exceedingly high doses given intravenously show little toxicity. Vitamin C has a remarkable track record of safety.

If you have been under stress, whatever the cause, for an extended period of time it will take high doses of vitamin C over a period of time, 3, 6 or even 12 months, to restore tissue vitamin C status. Our cells don't replace as fast as those of GULO- mice. AND even with high dose supplementation some tissues of the genetically altered mice still had lower values than their 'wild-type', C producing cousins at the end of the study.

Make a commitment to your body, get your daily vitamin C. Make the effort to discover what you (not the norm) truly need. A loading dose, for several months, of liposomal vitamin C is likely 2,000 mg three times a day, maintenance C, 1,000 mg twice daily, increasing doses and amounts when needed. If using non-liposomal C, number of doses and amounts will be much higher. Values of ascorbic acid (not liposomal) used by Pauling and others cover a wide range of uses. The so called Bowel Tolerance recommendations should be used cautiously and are not for the faint of heart. Always split the dose to maintain steady, high serum vitamin C, over the day, like our vitamin C producing animal friends. If using non-liposomal C you'll need to take more than three doses a day.

Your only measure of C sufficiency will be your overall response. Expect rapid healing from illness and injury, strong, healthy teeth and gums with little or no plaque, strong bones, excellent response and recovery to stress both mental and physical, mental sharpness, quality sleep, a sense of physical and mental well-being, a positive attitude, great skin, hair, and nails, avoidance of aging eyes, moist mucous membranes, problem free menopause, and a LONG life because vitamin C preserves and LENGTHENS telomeres.(125,126,127,128,129,130)

Vitamin C only works if you eat right for your genetic requirements, get all the essential nutrients YOU need every day, AND exercise. A long and healthy life requires a multitude of elements, inside and out. Remember, vitamin C facilitates health.

Verb: facilitate (physiology) increase the likelihood of (a response).[...]

Vitamin C Reference List

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6. Observations on the dose and administration of ascorbic acid when employed beyond the range of a vitamin in human pathology. KLENNER, F. R. 1971 J.Appl.Nutr.

7. Effect of marginal ascorbic acid deficiency on saliva level of cortisol in the guinea pig Enwonwu, C. O., Sawiris, P., and Chanaud, N. 1995 Arch.Oral Biol.

8. The role of ascorbic acid in the function of the adrenal cortex: studies in adrenocortical cells in culture Hornsby, P. J., Harris, S. E., and Aldern, K. A. 1985 Endocrinology

9. Influence of vitamin C status on the urinary excretion of catecholamines in stress Kallner, A. 1983 Hum.Nutr.Clin.Nutr.

10. Effects of ascorbic acid deficiency on adrenal mitochondrial hydroxylations in guinea pigs Bjorkhem, I., Kallner, A., and Karlmar, K. E. 1978 J.Lipid Res.

11. Evidence for an in vivo role of insulin-like growth factor-binding protein-1 and -2 as inhibitors of collagen gene expression in vitamin C-deficient and fasted guinea pigs Gosiewska, A., Wilson, S., Kwon, D., and Peterkofsky, B. 1994 Endocrinology

12. Cell damage and death by autoschizis in human bladder (RT4) carcinoma cells resulting from treatment with ascorbate and menadione Gilloteaux, J., Jamison, J. M., Neal, D. R., Loukas, M., Doberzstyn, T., and Summers, J. L. 2010 Ultrastruct.Pathol.

13. High dose of ascorbic acid induces cell death in mesothelioma cells Takemura, Y., Satoh, M., Satoh, K., Hamada, H., Sekido, Y., and Kubota, S. 4-2-2010 Biochem.Biophys.Res.Commun.

14. Ascorbate (vitamin C) induces cell death through the apoptosis-inducing factor in human breast cancer cells Hong, S. W., Jin, D. H., Hahm, E. S., Yim, S. H., Lim, J. S., Kim, K. I., Yang, Y., Lee, S. S., Kang, J. S., Lee, W. J., Lee, W. K., and Lee, M. S. 2007 Oncol.Rep.

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20. Vitamin C enhances differentiation of a continuous keratinocyte cell line (REK) into epidermis with normal stratum corneum ultrastructure and functional permeability barrier Pasonen-Seppanen, S., Suhonen, T. M., Kirjavainen, M., Suihko, E., Urtti, A., Miettinen, M., Hyttinen, M., Tammi, M., and Tammi, R. 2001 Histochem.Cell Biol.

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42. Antioxidants in tears and plasma: Inter-relationships and effect of vitamin C supplementation Choy, C., Benzie, I., and Cho, P. 2003 Curr.Eye Res.

43. Salivary antioxidants and periodontal disease status Sculley, D. V. and Langley-Evans, S. C. 2002 Proc.Nutr.Soc.

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48. Ascorbate on cell growth and differentiation Alcain, F. J. and Buron, M. I. 1994 J.Bioenerg.Biomembr.

49. Ascorbate status and xerostomia Enwonwu, C. O. 1992 Med.Hypotheses

50. Ascorbic acid requirement for optimal flexor tendon repair in vitro Russell, J. E. and Manske, P. R. 1991 J.Orthop.Res.

51. The time-course of oxytocin secretion from cultured bovine granulosa cells, stimulated by ascorbate and catecholamines Luck, M. R. and Jungclas, B. 1988 J.Endocrinol.

52. Induction of collagen synthesis by ascorbic acid. A possible mechanism Pinnel, S. R., Murad, S., and Darr, D. 1987 Arch.Dermatol.

53. Ascorbic acid enhances the release of luteinizing hormone-releasing hormone from the mediobasal hypothalamus in vitro Miller, B. T. and Cicero, T. J. 12-22-1986 Life Sci.

54. Contribution of a high dose of L-ascorbic acid to carnitine synthesis in guinea pigs fed high-fat diets Otsuka, M., Matsuzawa, M., Ha, T. Y., and Arakawa, N. 1999 J.Nutr.Sci.Vitaminol.(Tokyo)

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76. Associations between nutrition and cataract Taylor, A. 1989 Nutr.Rev.

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122. Vitamin C deficiency is an under-diagnosed contributor to degenerative disc disease in the elderly Smith, V. H. 2010 Med.Hypotheses

123. Dietary ascorbate intake affects steady state tissue concentrations in vitamin C-deficient mice: tissue deficiency after suboptimal intake and superior bioavailability from a food source (kiwifruit) Vissers, M. C., Bozonet, S. M., Pearson, J. F., and Braithwaite, L. J. 2011 Am.J.Clin.Nutr.

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125. Age-dependent telomere shortening is slowed down by enrichment of intracellular vitamin C via suppression of oxidative stress Furumoto, K., Inoue, E., Nagao, N., Hiyama, E., and Miwa, N. 1998 Life Sci.

126. Vitamin C Restores Behavioral Deficits and Amyloid-beta Oligomerization without Affecting Plaque Formation in a Mouse Model of Alzheimer's Disease Murakami, K., Murata, N., Ozawa, Y., Kinoshita, N., Irie, K., Shirasawa, T., and Shimizu, T. 5-10-2011 J.Alzheimers.Dis.

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128. Ascorbate improves metabolic abnormalities in Wrn mutant mice but not the free radical scavenger catechin Lebel, M., Massip, L., Garand, C., and Thorin, E. 2010 Ann.N.Y.Acad.Sci.

129. Vitamin C restores healthy aging in a mouse model for Werner syndrome Massip, L., Garand, C., Paquet, E. R., Cogger, V. C., O'Reilly, J. N., Tworek, L., Hatherell, A., Taylor, C. G., Thorin, E., Zahradka, P., Le Couteur, D. G., and Lebel, M. 2010 FASEB J.

130. Vitamin C reduces spatial learning deficits in middle-aged and very old APP/PSEN1 transgenic and wild-type mice Harrison, F. E., Hosseini, A. H., McDonald, M. P., and May, J. M. 2009 Pharmacol.Biochem.
 

Gimpy

The Living Force
Re: Re: Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

I've never been able to take more than 1200mg of vit C at a time, it goes right through me. Looking at the list of conditions in Psyche's latest article, about seven of them are issues I'm currently having problems with. There's a question of whether or not an infection is involved. I'm on low dose antibiotic treatment, which makes figuring out what kind of infection where tough to pin down.

The bottle of Liposomal Vit C shipped yesterday, looking forward to seeing how it works. :flowers:
 

Voyageur

Ambassador
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FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

Alana said:
For those of you in Canada who are looking to get already-made liposomal vit C, you can get it from here:

http://nanovitaminc.ca/products.htm

Will try it, big thanks. :)
 

Mr. Premise

The Living Force
Re: Re: Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

I got a bottle of liposomal Vitamin C in the mail today and tried 1000 mg. I definitely felt mental clarity and being energized. Could be the placebo effect, but...

I also got an ultrasonic cleaner in the mail today, so I'll be making a batch soon. This is exciting.
 

Nienna

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

Mr. Premise said:
I got a bottle of liposomal Vitamin C in the mail today and tried 1000 mg. I definitely felt mental clarity and being energized. Could be the placebo effect, but...

I also got an ultrasonic cleaner in the mail today, so I'll be making a batch soon. This is exciting.

Please keep us updated on how this batch turns out.
 

Mrs. Peel

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

Nienna Eluch said:
Mr. Premise said:
I got a bottle of liposomal Vitamin C in the mail today and tried 1000 mg. I definitely felt mental clarity and being energized. Could be the placebo effect, but...

I also got an ultrasonic cleaner in the mail today, so I'll be making a batch soon. This is exciting.

Please keep us updated on how this batch turns out.

I ordered two different brands off Amazon but they won't be here till next Thursday (opted for the pony express free shipping). Will report back afterwards also!
 

Mr. Premise

The Living Force
Re: Re: Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

Nienna Eluch said:
Mr. Premise said:
I got a bottle of liposomal Vitamin C in the mail today and tried 1000 mg. I definitely felt mental clarity and being energized. Could be the placebo effect, but...

I also got an ultrasonic cleaner in the mail today, so I'll be making a batch soon. This is exciting.

Please keep us updated on how this batch turns out.

I will. I haven't made a batch yet but will today. This is the second day of taking the store bought stuff and I feel better than I have for a long time. I need less sleep, have more mental clarity. I was getting tired yesterday and felt like I needed a nap when the liposomal got delivered. After taking it I wasn't tired at all for the rest of the day and wasnt able to sleep more tha six hours last night. And I had been taking 8g regular oral C in two 4g doses, but the lipososomal is way more effective.
 

Gandalf

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

Mr. Premise said:
Nienna Eluch said:
Mr. Premise said:
I got a bottle of liposomal Vitamin C in the mail today and tried 1000 mg. I definitely felt mental clarity and being energized. Could be the placebo effect, but...

I also got an ultrasonic cleaner in the mail today, so I'll be making a batch soon. This is exciting.

Please keep us updated on how this batch turns out.

I will. I haven't made a batch yet but will today. This is the second day of taking the store bought stuff and I feel better than I have for a long time. I need less sleep, have more mental clarity. I was getting tired yesterday and felt like I needed a nap when the liposomal got delivered. After taking it I wasn't tired at all for the rest of the day and wasnt able to sleep more tha six hours last night. And I had been taking 8g regular oral C in two 4g doses, but the lipososomal is way more effective.

Great and if possible could you add a picture of your homemade lipo. I would like to see the end result. ;)
 

Mr. Premise

The Living Force
Re: Re: Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

I made my first batch today. I followed the recipe Laura posted plus the 8 minutes in the ultrasonic cleaner.

After it came out there was some segmentation. Then I refrigerated it for a couple of hours, then shook it up before drinking some, and the three level layering went away.

I saw another recipe that recommends blending the lecithin first separately, refrigerating it overnight, then mix with the dissolved Vitamin C, blending then ultrasonic treatment. I may try that next.
 

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Mr. Premise

The Living Force
Re: Re: Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

I just read another recipe (http://www.quantumbalancing.com/liposomalC.htm) that is pretty much the same as the others with this exception:

5. Pour the mixture into the ultrasonic cleaner and turn it on. Stir frequently.

6. The cleaner will turn itself off about every two minutes or so. You continue to stir frequently and turn the cleaner back on until ALL of the foam is gone. Repeat: Continue to stir and turn the cleaner back on until ALL OF THE FOAM IS GONE!! This will take about 30 minutes or so. When done you will have a mix that is about the color of milk. There will be some settling but shouldn't be much, less than 5% of the mix or so.

Most others say 8 minutes of ultrasonic treatment is fine, but this one says 30 minutes with frequent stirring. I think I'll try that on the next batch.
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

Liposomal encapsulation of supplemental nutrients seems to be taking off. Interesting.

On this page: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/d-i-y-liposomal-supplements-quercetin.19211/

There's a "how to" video though the guy only keeps it in the ultra-sonic thing for 8 minutes and we have noted that it can take up to 30 minutes.

There's also a link to this paper: Liposomal Quercetin Efficiently Suppresses Growth of Solid Tumors in Murine Models http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/12/10/3193.full They were encapsulating the Quercetin in polyethylene glycol which I'm not too sure about. Maybe the lecithin would be better?

Then, there are a couple of pages selling stuff that give examples of what kinds of things you can do:

_http://worldschoiceproducts.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=28

_http://www.letstalkhealth.com/Liposomal-s/32.htm

There's Liposomal Glutathione: http://glutathione.wellwise.org/how-do-liposomes-work

Here's a combo: http://www.pdazzler.com/archives/1005 with instructions for making it.

Several instructions say that the lecithin should soak in the water for up to 4 hours, so that may be a key element of the process.


Here's an article about it from Mark Hyman: Glutathione: The Mother of All Antioxidants http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/glutathione-the-mother-of_b_530494.html He doesn't say anything about a liposomal form, but one of the comments below the article does.

So I went looking. Found this: http://www.liposomalglutathione.com/ and this: http://www.readisorb.com/readisorb_liposomal_glutathione.html

The last one tells the ingredients which suggests that people can make their own pretty much the same way the liposomal vitamin C is made. I wonder if it would be useful to make vitamin C and glutathione together? Especially for folks with leaky guts?

Here's an article about it from a professional laboratory: http://www.maxhealthlabs.com/liposomal-science They have five products encapsulated in lecithin so far.

Overall, it appears that this might be the delivery method for many folks who are in a bad way and I can say that I'm going to be trying some of these things.
 
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