Child Psychopaths

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

It's shocking to hear of a child going to kindergarten at 9 months. The child should be constantly with the mother, like 24 hours a day, or other very close family, for at least 3 to 4 years, in order to get a good emotional grounding. Being shipped off to an institution at that young age probably has had an extremely negative effect.

In my country (Belgium), it is the 'norm' to put children in kindergarten (called crêche) at the ripe old age of ... 4 months!!! That is to say, just when the pregnancy leave is over. There is usually no other solutions to mothers who want/have to continue working after giving birth. AND if you put your child in a kindergarten, you are forced to vaccinate him/her (there is a list of 6 or 7 vaccines that need to be administered before the child can enter kindergarten)!!
That's why I decided to quit my job and stay at home with my daughter until she was two years and a half. She never had to face that and never had to have all these nasty vaccines either (except the polyo one because you face a fine, a trial and ultimately imprisonment if you refuse!!!)..
Staying at home with your child to 'protect' him/her from all that is considered cuckoo by the vast majority here. People try and make you feel ashamed not to work, they say that you are going to spoil your child, etc. but this is one kind of peer pressure I don't fall for, fortunately
We used all our savings to be able to do that, though.. So I understand that not everybody can/want to do that.

About Twisted's story:

As I posted here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=11639.msg85026#msg85026, I have a friend in the same situation. One of her child really is scary. At 5 (6?) he has already had quite a lot of traumatic events in his life, so he might be a soul in struggle, but since my this last post, his father has been diagnosed as psychotic and is an institution. It's difficult to judge, but if the child in Twisted's story is not a born psychopath, he might indeed well be on his way to become one if nothing is done to 'help' him (and his mother). The kitten thing really freaks me out, though..

 

[Twisted]

Piranah and Mrs.Tigersoap: Thank you very much for your posts.
Thank you to all of you who have responded. It has been of much help, mostly so that I know it isn't just in my head.

I have been thinking about this for a while, and have even contemplated that it could all be because I invited them into my own "safe space", and not being prepared enough to what it means to have a child living with you. And that my feelings could actually be coming from my own insecurities and resentment, then placed upon him, of having to change my life to accommodate them, even though I was the one who opened my doors willingly.
But of course, there's always been the voice of reason in the back of my head that reminds me that his behavior isn't always what I would classify as normal. Cause even though I have no kids of my own, I am the oldest in my family, and have had a hand in raising both siblings and cousins - which none of showed this behavior.

As Mrs.Tigersoap said: "The kitten thing really freaks me out, though.."
This is also the incident that really tipped me over, and had me look closer. Not only do I loathe animal torture more than anything in the world (and am thereby inclined to instantly "hate" a person doing such acts of cruelty), I have always been under the presumption that grown psychopaths, and (serial)killers often start out with the torture of animals.

Hopefully I will think of a way to confront my friend with my concerns, without it leading to a loss of a friendship.
I might, if the opportunity present itself, discuss it further with his grandmother, in the hopes that she can be a helpful resource in getting it all out in the open, so proper help/action can be given/taken.

 

[truth seeker]

You know Mrs. Tigersoap, I'm also in Belgium. About a month ago, I posted a really unusual situation that occurred between my boyfriend's son and another kid. I had/have the same strange feeling about that child that you and others spoke about. I had no idea that kids were put into kindergarten so young out here. That would explain the odd behavior in the case I posted however...

 

[Hildegarda]

Up until he was around 3 years old he was a very good kid. He obeyed without fuzzing when told "no", and there was generally little problem with him. He has always been ahead of development, and a very smart kid.
He started kindergarten at only 9 months, and this has often been credited the fact that he's been ahead other children in development. Both physically and mentally. [..]The boys birthday is the day before mine. [..]
So, early on in this kids life, I saw things in him, that I recognized in myself and what I was told about how I was when I was a child. I felt I understood him.

Thank you for sharing more details, Twisted. I wanted to quickly point out a few impressions:

First, it seems that the prevailing idea of a "good child" that the adults around this kid have, is that a good child should be more or less seen and not heard. Obey, hit your milestones, show intelligence, in short, be problem-free, and then you get a seal of approval. You are saying how well you understand the child, yet there is very little in what you write about the child'a actual personality. It's all about how he relates to grown-ups in conforming to their expectations. If this is attitude that surrounds the child on the daily basis, I wouldn't doubt that it's part of the problem.

It also seems that that early enrollment in day care is considered by those around him to be a positive influence. This may be culture-specific, I
ve heard similar opinions from people in countries with day-care freely available and encouraged. Again, it seems that for this child early competence was encouraged, that makes him less of a burden on the adults. In actuality though, being separated from the mother at an early age is a stress for a child and a risk for future behavioral problems, especially for children under 1 y. of age (here are some links: \\\http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/16/us/two-studies-link-child-care-to-behavior-problems.html?pagewanted=1 , \\\http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17795821/).

Similarly, you say, "in an almost 5 y.o. a constant supervision should not be necesary". I have two kids, so my experience is more limited than that of other moms, but even from it, five-year-olds are not necessarily that mature. But again, in your retelling the emphasis is on kid being alone and coping with being alone, like this is a desirable thing. Isn't it more desirable at this age to be together with the child, to communicate, play creatively and spend quality time? I wonder how much the child is being pushed aside and how much he is rebelling against that, trying to attract attention with his behavior.

I wonder also how much of your understanding of this child, was simply projections of your own personality onto the child, from his very birth and birthdate. Seems that there is a lot of that going on, too. And then you stopped seeing yourself in him, because he started acting more independently in a rebellious sort of way; that may have caused additional anguish for you and impacted on your attitude towards him.

All this makes me wonder about your observations of him. I don't doubt their validity or your "blink" of him, clearly something is going on in here. What I wonder about is the extent of the symptoms and therefore the possibility of their correction. Putting a kitten into a toilet is a horrible thing, yet if that was an isolated incident, it could simply indicate that the child at that time didn't yet know the fragility of life and didn't develop the understanding of how his action cause pain. It is by no means automatic in kids, there is more stories of accidentally smothered pets than there are of young psychopaths systematically torturing animals. I hope that was made into a big lesson for him by the adults around him. Same for eye contact and "not listening", like slowone said, it is not a given for a kid, especially a boy, to be good at this; the range of normal is quite wider than it would be convenient for us adults.

Same thing goes for his reaction to being yelled at. You worry that he gets angry, defiant and\or manipulative when yelled at. What would be a better reaction -- breaking down, crying and begging for forgiveness? And why exactly? This is sort of why I asked about the mother's parenting style. From the way yelling was casually mentioned, it seems that it is happens often to the kid and is viewed as normal. I sometimes totally blow my top off as well, but in my experience yelling as a means of long-term influencing people to do what you want, or do the right thing, is useless and ineffective. Does the mother help the child develop good habits, as opposed to chastising him for misbehavior or letting it slide? If appropriate, you might want to look up "positive discipline" on the net as a help for her, or encourage her to ask her day care professionals for help and for actual tips on how to respond to this or that. "1-2-3 Magic" and "Love and Logic" may have some ideas, those are patented parental advice systems that she can also look up.

From what you said, there is indeed quite a lot happening in the child's life that can be responsible for his problems or for bringing out his latent tendencies. Father figure moving in, at the same time as an age of explosive language development and maturity milestone is reached. Father figure quickly disappearing; a move into a new place away from old friends. Shuttling back and forth from house to house, parents playing a tag of war, attending to their own interests. Ambivalent and inconsistent mom. That really is a lot.

At the same time, it seems that the child has a lot of relatives who, despite their personal difficulties, are upholding their general responsibilities of taking care of him, and see the problems too. The counseling option has already been offered also by teachers. Additionally, he is at your house only 30% of the time, so I imagine that his behavior is not that disruptive to your personally as if he always were there.

So, I don't think that you personally need to do anything, or take on any responsibility for the child. The only thing perhaps is to encourage the mother to take advantage of counseling offered by school. I probably wouldn't say anything about psychopathy at this point, but rather about risks of growing up a "problem kid". I would go along the mother's reasoning, commenting on how he takes the divorce so hard and it would really benefit from counseling, that this has to be attended to before school so that he is prepared etc, "I know you love your kid, you are lucky everyone supports you, let's work with the teach hers to get the best for him", etc. Talking to the grandmother is a great idea too, imo.

fwiw; good luck and keep us posted!

 

[Laura]

I'm with Hildegarda on this. Her analysis is spot on. My youngest child put a puppy in the pool when she was about 4. She thought she was doing something nice for the puppy. She liked going in the pool, so the puppy would like it too. She also took a large goldfish out of the tank and dressed it in Barbie clothes. (The puppy was rescued, but the fish did not survive.)

When I was three, my brother and I found some newborn mice and we thought they would like to play, so we tied strings around them and sailed them in the air. We liked it when somebody sailed us in the air, and we figured that baby mice would like being little trapeze artists. Then, they looked rather tired, so we got some milk in a jar lid and tried to get them to drink. They didn't, so we thought they could soak up the milk by being in it. I can clearly remember these thought processes so when my daughter put the puppy in the pool, after rescuing it, I just had a conversation with her to find out what she was thinking. I had to explain to her that puppies weren't like little girls and didn't have arms and legs to get themselves out of the pool when they wanted.

Over all, as all the details have come out, I am just horrified that this child you are talking about is in the environment he is in and has been in from birth. Any culture that thinks it is a good idea to put infants in day care is backward or psychopathic.

 

[Buddy]

[quote author=Hildegarda]
You are saying how well you understand the child, yet there is very little in what you write about the child'a actual personality.[/quote]

I agree. What I noticed was a lack of meaningful communication with the child's mind. No advocate.

Long before they learn to edit what they see, most children seem to have the ability to pick up all data in a communication of any kind...including the contradictions between words and physical postures and less-than-accepting behaviors addressed to them.

Someone needs to gain the child's trust and find out what, from the child's point of view, lies behind the 'behavior problems.' He may be more aware of the problems and projections of the adults around him, then the adults may be comfortable with. And he won't know how to handle it without trusted guidance.

Just my thoughts that come from studying double-binds in communication and some of my own experiences.

 

[Twisted]

Hildegarda:
I see where you are coming from, but I must note a few things.

When I said that an almost 5 year old child should not have to be supervised constantly, I had one specific event in mind. This was one where he was playing in his room, and we were there with him as well, as we were cleaning out the room for him (as they were moving in with me)
We had a few bags of things that was going to be thrown away, and we carried these outside, leaving him in his room, alone for about 2-3 minutes. When we came inside, he had already seen his opportunity and went downstairs into the living room, and were "up to no good" - pouring out salt, and a vial of incense oil. He thought he could hide it, but of course the smell was all over the house.
I didn't blow any fuse, but sent him to his room. When I went upstairs I talked to him calmly and told him the reason why I sent him upstairs, and asked if he understood that what he did was not allowed. He didn't answer me, but put his sweet voice on and talked about something else as to distract me away from the subject at hand.
So, I did not mean that it is desirable to leave him on his own for long stretches of time and have him cope on his own, but a few minutes with you back turned should imo be possible.

About the "good kid" and grown-ups expectations. I see this one. And I know I might be expecting more of a child than what is age appropriate, and that is most likely a fault of mine. However, the mother is very consistent in the idea that kids needs to be kids, but also in order for him to learn, he must be allowed to try things on his own. As an example of that, from very early on, he was allowed to feed himself, that meaning that she did not "baby" him and spoon feed him for very long. So, I think that from the age of 1, he sat at the table and ate by himself (that not meaning alone, she always sat at the table with him) as opposed to another friend of mine who spoon fed her child well into his 3 years of age.

As for the my understanding of him, or projecting my own personality on him.
He has always had a vivid imagination, and can easily play on his own. He doesn't even like when his mother tries to play with him, because as he says "she's doing it wrong".
His mother talked to me about this at one point, and I guess she saw a problem in him wanting to play on his own. As in this case, I did not - as I was exactly like that myself as a child (and I turned out just fine). So I told her that, and she was reassured.
But I do see the possibility of my projecting too much of my own personality onto him because of the birth date, and I'm gonna own that.

How much he is pushed aside at his fathers I can't tell, but when he is here and with his mother, she wishes to spend time with him, so much that she doesn't even deliver him to the kindergarten if not necessary, even though they specifically asked this of her, so they could keep up with their evaluating.
Of course, it happens that we put on a movie for him, so that we have an hour or so to clean up, or make food, or just to be able to throw our feet up if he's been active and hyper all day. But as far as I know, what parent doesn't?

As for how the incident with the kitten, this happened about a month ago, but I do not know how this was dealt with, as I was only told of this by his grandmother (whose cat it was).
I do however have cats of my own, and he has not done anything to them.

And I also wanna say, that despite of what I think of him at times, I do not let this "shine through" for him to take notice. When he is here, I do my best in interacting with him in a positive way, and engage in games with him when he invites me to do so.

I will take your advice to heart, and also, thank you for taking the time to respond :)

Laura:
Your response came as I was about to post this, so I'm just gonna make this short as I think most has already been answered above.
The reason he was put in kindergarten at such an early age was due to the mother starting school. Could she have chosen to wait with starting school a year? Of course. But it was also the having of her son, that gave her the will to want to get a proper education and a job, as beforehand she had dropped out of school and was unemployed. Children don't usually start that early, as a normal pregnancy leave for the mother is 1 year, or close to it. Even though as I understand, this to you is also too early. And I would agree, except the society is not set up that way, unless you have a husband who make enough for the mother to be able to be a stay at home mom.
This is not me excusing anything, but rather trying to explain it.

 

[Buddy]

He doesn't even like when his mother tries to play with him, because as he says "she's doing it wrong".

I think this confirms my point. You can't teach a child to play. Can you see this? He is being dragged into the ponerized world too early in every way, I think, and he's probably going to go kicking and screaming.

 

[Twisted]

He doesn't even like when his mother tries to play with him, because as he says "she's doing it wrong".

I think this confirms my point. You can't teach a child to play. Can you see this? He is being dragged into the ponerized world too early in every way, I think, and he's probably going to go kicking and screaming.

I see this. Which is why I never invite myself in his (or any childrens) games, or take over. I did work in a kindergarten myself at one point, and was learned there that one does not enter a childs play without an invitation to do so from the child itself.

So if we are to look at it this way, what would be your advice on how to steer thing in a right direction, and try to fix our own mistakes?

 

[Buddy]

I suppose one could start by trying to talk to the child as if you respect him and ask him in his own language, for what he thinks, why certain actions are good, what he sees, etc, etc.

While trying to establish some trust, one could also be learning about communication issues such as the aforementioned double-binds and anything else you can find and then compare that to the behavior of the people around the child.

A Classic Example
The classic example given of a negative double bind is of a mother telling her child that she loves him or her, while at the same time turning her head away in disgust. (The words are socially acceptable; the body language is in conflict with it). The child doesn't know how to respond to the conflict between the words and the body language and, because the child is dependent on the mother for basic needs, he or she is in a quandary. Small children have difficulty articulating contradictions verbally and can neither ignore them nor leave the relationship.

Again, if we get a bit more concrete, Bateson’s theory – and the reason I mention it – should become clearer.

Bateson builds from the idea of a “double bind” to create a hypothesis of the general characteristics of a “Schizophrenic” family – that is, a family capable of producing a Schizophrenic member (Bateson established much of the theoretical framework for what later became Family Systems Therapy, among other family-based therapy modalities). Again there are three conditions:

(1) A child whose mother becomes anxious and withdraws if the child responds to her as a loving mother. That is, the child’s very existence has a special meaning to the mother which arouses her anxiety and hostility when she is in danger of intimate contact with the child.
(2) A mother to whom feelings of anxiety and hostility toward the child are not acceptable, and whose way of denying them is to express overt loving behavior to persuade the child to respond to her as a loving mother and to withdraw from him if he does not.
(3) The absence of anyone in the family … who can intervene in the relationship between the mother and child and support the child in the face of the contradictions involved.
Bateson gives the following example to bring home how this works:

For example, if the mother begins to feel hostile (or affectionate) toward her child and also feels compelled to withdraw from him, she might say, “Go to bed, you’re very tired and I want you to get your sleep.” This overtly loving statement is intended to deny a feeling which could be verbalized as “Get out of my sight because I’m sick of you.” If the child correctly discriminates her meta-communicative signals, he could have to face the fact that she both doesn’t want him and is deceiving him by her loving behavior. He would be “punished” for learning to discriminate orders of messages accurately. He therefore would tend to accept the idea that he is tired rather than recognize his mother’s deception. This means that he must deceive himself about his own internal state in order to support mother in her deception. To survive with her he must falsely discriminate his own internal messages as well as falsely discriminate the message of others.

Bateson provides a second example, this time of an actual case, to further illustrate the mechanism of destruction.

A young man who had fairly well recovered from an acute schizophrenic episode was visited in the hospital by his mother. He was glad to see her and impulsively put his arm around her shoulders, whereupon she stiffened. He withdrew his arm and she asked, “Don’t you love me any more?” He then blushed, and she said, “Dear, you must not be so easily embarrassed and afraid of your feelings.” The patient was able to stay with her only a few minutes more and following her departure assaulted an aide and was put in the tubs.
It would be downright diabolical if the mother had any idea she was doing it, which of course she doesn’t. Bateson makes the following observations:

(1) The mother’s reaction of not accepting her son’s affectionate gesture is masterfully covered up by her condemnation of him for withdrawing, and the patient denies his perception of the situation by accepting her condemnation.
(2) The statement “Don’t you love me any more” in this context seems to imply: (a) “I am lovable.” (b) “You should love me and if you don’t you are bad or at fault.” (c) “Whereas you did love me previously you don’t any longer,” and thus focus is shifted from his expressing affection to his inability to be affectionate. Since the patient has also hated her, she is on good ground here, and he responds appropriately with guilt, which she then attacks.
It is enough to make one crazy, and according to Bateson, it does.

Double-Bind References:

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind
_http://www.successfulschizophrenia.org/articles/dblbinds.html
_http://www.rhizomeway.com/rhizomenetwork/?p=920
_http://www.goertzel.org/dynapsyc/1997/Koopmans.html
_http://oblivio.com/archives/00082001.html
_http://www.oikos.org/baten.htm
_http://www.oikos.org/stepsintro.htm
_http://www.oikos.org/knotsen1.htm
_http://www.oikos.org/knots2.htm
_http://www.oikos.org/knots3.htm
_http://www.oikos.org/knots4.htm
_http://www.oikos.org/ronen.htm


Dances with Words:
Untying Laingian Knots in Double Binds and Vicious Circles in Organisational Discourse
A paper for the European Group for Organizational Studies, Vienna, 2007; Author: Chris Poulson
_http://eprints.utas.edu.au/1434/1/_Dances_with_Words-Poulson.pdf


Rodriguez, C. and Perez, D. “The ‘double bind’ discourse in management narratives: a transdiciplinary approach.” Paper presented at the 37th World Congress of Sociology, Stockholm (2005). (_http://www.scasss.uu.se/IIS2005/total_webb/tot_html/papers/the_double_bind_discourse.pdf) accessed I3
January 2007


Principal Reference

Bateson, G., D. Jackson, J. Haley,
and J. Weakland, ‘Toward a Theory of
Schizophrenia’, Behavioural Science
1 (1956), pp251-254. In Bateson, G.
1972. Steps to an Ecology of Mind: a Revolutionary Approach to Man’s Understanding of Himself. New York: Ballantine Books.

Cybernetics and the Art of Living
Ernst von Glasersfeld
_http://www.oikos.org/Vonglas2oct.htm

 

[Twisted]

Thank you very much Buddy.
I will certainly educate myself with this info you have presented, and figure out if this in fact can be the problem.

 

[Hildegarda]

I see this. Which is why I never invite myself in his (or any childrens) games, or take over. I did work in a kindergarten myself at one point, and was learned there that one does not enter a childs play without an invitation to do so from the child itself.

So if we are to look at it this way, what would be your advice on how to steer thing in a right direction, and try to fix our own mistakes?

Taking over a game is bad, but I don't exactly agree with the idea of not joining a play without invitation from the child. E.g., if I followed this with my own son, the invitation would never be forthcoming. Yet he is the kind of kid for whom it is beneficial to be nudged out of his social comfort zone and thinking patterns, I have found that repeatedly.

A great child-directed play approach is called FloorTime (\\\http://www.icdl.com/dirFloortime/overview/index.shtml , \\\http://www.mindspring.com/~dgn/playther.htm). It has originally been developed by Dr. Greenberg for autistic children, but has been found very beneficial for typical preschoolers and elementary school children as well. The basic idea is that you dedicate half an hour to an hour a day to sit next to your child and participate in her play. You only do what the child wants you to do, participating actively but providing no direction at all yourself. The links give specific instructions on how to do it and what to watch for, and tips for floor time with older kids.

Sounds like this may be beneficial for your little friend -- here is what it says on the page:

4 Signs That Your Child Needs Your Undivided Attention

1. He is deliberately disobedient. This may indicate that he's feeling ignored. Floor time shows him that he doesn't need to act up to get noticed. It also helps him feel cared for and valued while you try to learn if there's a deeper reason for his disobedience.

2. She clings, whines, or cries frequently. This may indicate insecurity. Half an hour of undivided attention each day helps to reassure your child that she is safe and loved.

3. He hits, screams, and shows other signs of anger. Floor time provides a forum for him to express anger more appropriately (for example, through pretend play or conversation).

4. She exhibits difficulty making developmental transitions, such as moving from crib to bed or starting school. Growing up is hard, and such challenges can make a child doubt her coping abilities. Floor time helps her relax and gain confidence.

 

[Twisted]

Many thanks Hildegarda!
By the looks of it, this FloorTime seems pretty amazing. Definitely worth a shot!

 

[Hildegarda]

When I said that an almost 5 year old child should not have to be supervised constantly, I had one specific event in mind. [..]
So, I did not mean that it is desirable to leave him on his own for long stretches of time and have him cope on his own, but a few minutes with you back turned should imo be possible.

and have even contemplated that it could all be because I invited them into my own "safe space", and not being prepared enough to what it means to have a child living with you.

And I know I might be expecting more of a child than what is age appropriate, and that is most likely a fault of mine.

Well, if it's one specific event you are really talking about, then it's back to the old saying, "it can happen to anybody". One specific event is on my mind always: in a few minutes that I wasn't looking directly at them (they were in the same room with me too, mind you), my then 5 y.o. daughter stuck a plastic toy snake into her 2 y.o. brother's eye, very deliberately and aiming for "the black dot". She was going to go for the other one, too. She wasn't fully aware that he could lose an eye like this, but the event wasn't a total accident either. That's the time that her brother has become more mobile, vocal and intrusive, yet was still a cute baby, while she was viewed increasingly as an older child who should already know this or that. An exam at the eye-doctor's showed no lasting damage, thankfully. A completely unexpected thing for a generally sensitive and mature child to do, took me totally off guard. I make a big lesson for her out of it. But another big lesson was for me: not that there's something wrong with my children, but in that I should be more attentive to them and adjust my expectations of them.

You may be right in that your expectations may not have been realistic when your friend had just moved in, so that event was bound to make a strong impression on you. What you described shows this child's impulsive nature, but is within the realm of expected -- that's why they have a practice of child-proofing. Your mentioning of salt and incense oil made me smile and remember a visit to a friend's house when my kids were 3 and 6. The friend graciously offered us to house-sit for him for a few days while he was away and we happened to be passing through on our road trip. First thing we see as we get inside is, right by the door, an elaborate bar display on a low cocktail table, with bottles, multicolored martini glasses and other glass jingles. We literally dropped the luggage and dove for these things, snatching them and stowing them on a high shelf before kids could get to them. We had to go around the house right away, collecting everything fragile from waist level down. Obviously, our host didn't consider the age and size of his visitors and prepare accordingly. :) If you don't have experience dealing with small kids, that's only natural, whereas if you have been through it, child-proofing is a reflex.

Your friend didn't appear to have considered that either. As a mother, it really was her responsibility to supervise her child and administer reprimand or punishment to him, and apologize to you and offer to replace the items or compensate in some other way. But that a whole another matter, which you also might want to consider: how considerately your friend acts in your house, and whether you have any unvoiced feelings in this respect. In the case of spilled incense, any real grievances should probably be addressed to her and not to the child.

The reason he was put in kindergarten at such an early age was due to the mother starting school. Could she have chosen to wait with starting school a year? Of course. But it was also the having of her son, that gave her the will to want to get a proper education and a job, as beforehand she had dropped out of school and was unemployed. Children don't usually start that early, as a normal pregnancy leave for the mother is 1 year, or close to it. Even though as I understand, this to you is also too early. And I would agree, except the society is not set up that way, unless you have a husband who make enough for the mother to be able to be a stay at home mom.

Please be assured that nobody judges your friend's tough choices. What's important is to serve the child's interests, and the only reason why daycare came up in this respect is that, crediting it for the child's past developmental advancement and adjustment clearly isn't doing him any service. In this case and at this time, daycare is actually your ally, as the child can receive proper attention and treatment there, provided the mother talks to the teachers and cooperates with them.

You sound a bit defensive in your last post, but the reason for it seems to be that you genuinely care for your friends, the mother and the child, and want the best for him. Obviously, you are a big part of their lives and give a lot of your attention to the child. You may feel bad about your present feelings, and it is distressing to you, yet you still there for them and want to help them. If you continue doing what you are doing, I think it will be very good for them. Please keep us posted of any changes in your friends' arrangements, and thank you for sharing.

 

[Buddy]

In this case and at this time, daycare is actually your ally, as the child can receive proper attention and treatment there, provided the mother talks to the teachers and cooperates with them.

I would like to offer a suggestion regarding the daycare, although it's probably not needed. Finding out what the policies and procedures are for handling various situations requiring some kind of discipline or whatever. It wouldn't hurt to confirm some kind of background checks for employees as well. (again, please excuse me if it's not needed).

A friend of mine had placed his very young child in a daycare only to discover later that the child had been placed in a room with children much older than him whereupon he got picked on. When that situation had been straightened out, this friend then found out that his child had been placed in a room where another child was sick. My friend's child then got sick and had to spend a week in the hospital. One problem led to another until my friend had to withdraw his child until another daycare could be settled on. Thankfully, things are working out for him at the moment.

I can see how hard this is for you, Twisted, but congratulations on your efforts to help, and I do hope that all this will make a difference to the child, as well as you. :)