A Rolling Barack Gathers No Light

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

That’s a real shame, as I would appreciate anything anyone on this forum would care to share on any subject I might have a background and interest.

While you may appreciate any kind of noise, on this forum we strive for a low noise to signal ratio. This means that if someone demonstrates a lack of knowledge in a certain area and makes a lot of unsupported proclamationd and assumptions, this forum will not waste its time "appreciating" what they have to say.

Now one of the cool things I heard from “anti shape-shifting reptilian” Icke was, “I may be wrong (in what he believes/describes in his books). But that’s okay. As I’m still learning.”

Adding "I may be wrong" at the end of a bunch of assumptions does not excuse them nor change the fact that they're a bunch of assumptions. Learning is the opposite of making assumptions.

And so are all of us here doing the same thing: learning new ideas. Correct?

Not quite. You cannot learn an idea. You can have an idea or read about an idea. To learn something, it has to be true. An idea in and of itself is not true, it is just an idea - until it has enough evidence to make it true, at which point it is no longer an idea, but knowledge.

I note from you – and this might be an subjective assessment on my part – a degree of hostility and even dare I say, anger, directed at me in your posts. Of course, this makes me somehwat sad.

I personally don't see any hostility, but perhaps some frustration, which is usually what happens when one tries to talk with someone who is not listening because their cup may be full and they are not critical of their own conclusions and put faith into subjective experiences as "proof" of anything.

I am surprised at what you are saying to me, PepperFritz.

And that is normal when you are so convinced of your own rightness. When others point out problems in your understanding and approach, you are surprised - because you assumed, and were attached to the assumption that there were no problems.

BUT the other persons in said discussion must also have *studied* the material at length and be at the same level of understanding.

You seem to be confusing studying something and having an understanding of it. Often those go together, but there are many wrong ways to study something that lead to wrong understandings. You again seem to suggest that your "study" of the material provided you with a "high level of understanding" and that your views and understandings are not the problem - that if there is any kind of disagreement, it must because we just haven't studied it enough ourselves. At least that's what it sounds like to me.

I perhaps am not one to say, but it appears that it has been a while since you've read over the C’s transcripts? Or follow up on some of the books they recommend? I can assure you that me using material from either Seth or the C’s or even the P’s comes from much study on my part.

Right, and so do those other people whose "study" of the material had various problems that led them away from objective understanding of the material in proper context.

Fair enough. So how can I prove to my little nephew that Santa Claus does not exist?
Taking it a bit further… How can I prove to my older Christian sister that Jesus is not “real...”?

And yet, you know that Santa does not exist and Jesus is not what your Christian sister would think he is. There is no "absolute proof", but there is a way to know the truth without absolute proof - with enough data and critical analysis and understanding of the data. So this forum cannot "prove" to you that YCYOR doesn't really work in the way you are thinking, because just like your nephew and your christian sister, you are not open or critical or interested to question your convictions, or so it seems.

Why are you accusing me - of anything? By know you must know that this you have made is nothing more than a subjective opinion on your part.

Not if that "accusation" is supported by evidence from your posts. It's not just a wild off-the-wall unsupported idea, and Pepper is not the only one who sees this. Instead of blindly disregarding this as just a bunch of random subjective opinions, you could pause and consider why people would get this impression from your posts.

But it sounds like you are of the "opinion" that accusing anyone of anything is always wrong because it is always just a subjective opinion? Would this not be akin to denying that there exists an objective reality and that it may be possible for someone to discern what it is, or at least come close? I wouldn't be surprised if this is really what you believe, because this is the crux of YCYOR idea. And if you do believe this, then you may want to consider that you're in fact accusing PepperFritz of being subjective, and so violating your own rule about "not accusing anyone of anything".

I don't state that I'm teacher out of "self importance" but rather simply to state, in the context of a particular conversation - a fact.

Ok, what context was it that made it important to state that you are a teacher?

I have no “agenda” PepperFritz. I am here simply because this forum deals not only with politics, but also with extraterrestrial intelligence and supernatural/paranormal phjenomena. These are not topics that can be discussed just with anyone.

There's a whole ton of people who you cannot discuss those topics with. Then there's also a whole ton of people that you can discuss them with - and your discussions will amount to nothing but noise and nonsense. There are many forums that deal with the above topics, and amount to nothing but noise and nonsense. This forum is much more than just a forum that deals with these topics. The devil is in the details - exactly how we deal with those and other topics.

I mean, even with my students (please think of me as ‘grade school teacher’ as opposed to a “metaphysical” teacher. As when I write “teacher” it apparently pushes the "wrong buttons" – for some strange reason?)

Just curious, what prompted you to decide that you should become a "metaphysical teacher"? I mean, you could've just stayed as a student, maybe opened a discussion forum or something and chosen to network. But what prompted you to specifically put yourself in the role of a teacher?

Much like Ark, I believe, says, “I don’t want to believe. I want to know.”

Yeah but he doesn't necessarily mean "experience". I know that Bush is the US president but I didn't have to see him in person to know it. I also know "aliens" exist without experiencing them. On the other hand, I have experienced things that may lead me to think they are what they appeared to be, and later found out that they are anything but. Experience does not necessarily yield knowledge, it all depends on the experiencer.

Ahh – that’s the $64,000 ring right there. As one must Prove it - anything - to oneself, my friend. I’m sure that after you (not addressing "you" specifically but anyone0] do this – with anything, including YCYOR experiments, or remote viewing, or even ouija board channeling, you will share in excitement and declare that PSI phenomena is real!

And once you know it's real, then what? Lots of people are convinced that "psi phenomena" is real, but that doesn't stop them from being completely asleep.

 

[Bernhard]

As Henry wrote well over a year ago:

There are many sites where people can go to hear all the different points of view. It is not our goal here to either represent all points of view or to permit the expression of all points of view. It can be done elsewhere.

Our goal here is to weed through the garbage to find the pearls. Part of that means that when a newbie arrives, we expect them to do the work of catching up themselves by reading through the archives. We do what we can to help newcomers out, but they are expected to be able to get up to speed themselves. We don't have the time to handhold. Sorry, but that's how it is. The world is on fire.

The people who "trust us" don't do it because we tell them to, it is because over the years, they have learned to trust us because of our work. They have read our research, have done their own, and have decided that our conclusions, so far, are correct and that our working hypotheses as to the functioning of the world have a high probability of being close to the truth. Yes, they can be improved, and we are doing that every day. But they don't take what we say at face-value. They do the work they need to do in order to decide for themselves whether they agreement with our analysis or not.

There are certain questions where we have more or less made up our minds. It would take some substantial new data to have us rethink our positions. But if that data were shown to us, we would look at it. Trouble is, most people don't come here with data, they come here with their opinions. Opinions aren't worth a damn. If you want to know why, you can search on the subject in the forum.

There are certain teachings and ideas that we have, through our many, many years of research, been able to put in the box of disinformation. If someone comes here and starts putting forward those ideas, they will be asked to do the research necessary to understand why we have moved beyond those topics and why we don't talk about them any longer. They need to do the reading and research to understand what we have to say about it. Then, if they have some new data that we are not aware of, they are welcome to contribute, but if they want to rehash old topics that we have already been through, we don't have the time.

This is a forum for active and ongoing research. It isn't a debating society.

It comes down to the purpose of the forum. The purpose of this forum is for people to work together to uncover the truth about this world. That means a critical and scientific spirit. It means that at a certain point, a decision is taken about the value of certain ideas. A judgement is made. It doesn't mean a free-for-all of ideas, which is an enviroment where no serious work can be done.

People either "get it" or they don't. If people get it, they are happy to contribute to our work. If they don't, then their participation here will only prevent others from doing that work.

If people don't like the rules, they can go elsewhere. Nothing is forcing anyone to come here.

That is so well stated and written. Could this be added to the 'rules' - section as a 'read first' for newbies maybe? Not saying the rules are not clear, they are very much so. However, I like the short-and-to-the-point tone of Henry's post about the function of this forum.

 

[PepperFritz]

Objective reality has nothing to do with subjective experience.

I beg to differ *profoundly* with the above statement, PepperFritz.

Then you differ *profoundly* with one of the basic premises of this Forum and its Work. That is not opinion, it is simply fact. For that reason this is unlikely to be the kind of environment you're looking for, as your posts will continue to evoke the kind of critical responses you have received to date. (Please note that "critical" is not synonymous with "hostile", and that your projection of hostility onto those who criticize you is probably related to your own anger at being questioned in such a direct and straightforward manner. It is another aspect of this Forum that takes some getting used to.)

I hope that you will act on the advice you have been given by the moderators, and undertake to seriously read and absorb the materials that they have recommended, so that you may participate on the forum in a more meaningful and productive way.

 

[PepperFritz]

That is so well stated and written. Could this be added to the 'rules' - section as a 'read first' for newbies maybe? Not saying the rules are not clear, they are very much so. However, I like the short-and-to-the-point tone of Henry's post about the function of this forum.

I heartily concur. Henry's "summary" really helped me to "focus" when I first started posting on this Forum, and to understand where other, more experienced members were coming from when responding to my posts. I'm sure it would help other newbies as well.

 

[PepperFritz]

William Patrick Patterson wrote this as a footnote in his book 'Struggle of the Magicians' and I think it fits here:

Energy, the student believes, is the magic elixir - energy will solve all problems. Instead of submitting to the suffering and remorse that self-seeing must bring, instead of working with his lower centers, he thinks he can finesse the process by adopting techniques for refining energy, such as breathing exercises (or visualizations). As he increases vibration without correspondingly increasing discernment and understanding, he unknowingly projects his ignorance and delusion on the higher levels of energy, thus creating imagination in higher emotional center (where, once imprinted, it is difficult to erase) (assuming he is even equipped with a higher emotional center). Hence, the prevalent contemporary fascination with a variety of psychic phenomenon - the current spiritual materialism masking itself in New Age rhetoric.

Wow, that's a very powerful passage, thank you for posting it. It completely sums up where I was and how I thought when I was in my twenties -- before I came crashing down to earth and had to re-evaluate everything I believed about "reality" and my relationship to it. Thankfully, the hard, unrelenting, day-to-day Work of learning to discern the workings of my own machine, programs, and influences keeps me far too busy and grounded to do much "phenomena chasing" these days.

You listen to these "New Agers" go on and on about this and that esoteric method of pursuing their particular brand of spiritual materialism, and you just want to say "But then what? Who and what are you going to be when you get there? How long, and in how many ways are you going to avoid doing the serious and essential Work of learning who and what you are, and the nature of your reality here on 3rd-density earth? When are you finally going to decide to get off the fence and throw in with an STS or STO crowd? What are you going to rely on when the inevitable happens, and the bottom falls out of all those the carefully and fragiley propped-up illusions you've bought into and invested in?"

But like every other "activity" obsessively pursued in our society, it's all DISTRACTION, to ensure we all continue to wallow in a sea of subjectivity and never get the chance to take a good hard, long, unflinching look at the objective reality that informs every single minute aspect of our existence.

Have I told you lately how much I appreciate this Forum, and how thankful I am to all of the SOTT people who so generously share their knowledge and expertise with all sincere seekers? If not, it is long overdue.

 

[mada85]

Objective reality has nothing to do with subjective experience.

I beg to differ *profoundly* with the above statement, PepperFritz.

Coming from a metaphysical teacher this is a statement of truly breathtaking arrogance. Is this the kind of crap you teach your students? That your subjective view is closer to the truth than the objective view, which takes effort and work to find?

Do you realise that objective is the exact opposite of subjective?

In George Orwell's novel, 1984, doublethink leads to statements like the following:

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

To which we can now add, courtesy of The Great RU:

Subjectivity is Objective Truth.

What is the difference, in essence and construction, between what you say and what Orwell puts into the mouth of an ugly totalitarian state? I'd like to know.

 

[Mr. Premise]

To be fair, mada, I don't thing RU said that subjective experience EQUALS objective truth, just that it may have SOMETHING to do with it. That we can access objective truth by examining our experience with rigor and trying to verify it.

I think our starting point is necessarily subjective, but our goal is objectivity. We need both critical thinking and a network to even start to achieve an objective view, OSIT.

Not defending all of RU's points or anything...

 

[mada85]

To be fair, mada, I don't thing RU said that subjective experience EQUALS objective truth, just that it may have SOMETHING to do with it. That we can access objective truth by examining our experience with rigor and trying to verify it.

You may well be correct, DJH. My post is based on my impression of RU gained from reading his/her contributions to the forum, as a whole. In looking over my post again, I think I may have been a little harsh, but as PepperFritz wrote recently, frustration often leads to 'turning up the volume'.

 

[Racer_Unknown]

Hello, Anart.

As I try to catch up with the various posts, I feel somewhat overwhelmed by the type of reaction they have generated. Before I begin with yours, let me say that I will definitively follow your advice and read up on what you suggested. Although coincidently, I have read some of these threads before, and, for the record, I have read both Adventures & The Wave series several times. I think it is great channeled work and brilliantly put together with all of Laura’s and the rest of the group researching afterwards what came through the board. And so yes, after I finish replying the latest posts - out of courtesy for those who have posted the questions and/or suggestions - I will take a little break from posting on the forum.

As I do want to be on the “same page” with you all, or at least try my best to be. Okay?

I reply to both of your posts on this one by the way, Anart.

Since other forum members have been doing such a good job explaining what I was attempting to point out to you in my previous post, I was not going to interfere - but the fact that you use a 'meeting' with David Icke – shape shifting Lizard Royal Family David Icke - as proof that your 'experiments' work (and you've written books on this???) - I would be remiss to not point out that you REALLY need to do some reading on this forum.

Please note that I used David Icke as an example, simply *because* you asked for an instance when I had used YCYOR successfully. As you may recall, I was discussing Deepak Chopra (from my Obama post) and David Icke as “steeping stones” into both the world of conspiracies and quantum physics – the latter from a “scientific” perspective as opposed to the “metaphysical” perspective – which the Seth books had given me

You need to look up and read every single thread on YCYOR - David Icke - Cointelpro - Channel Watch - that's a start.... if you understood who and what David Icke is, you might understand that forces other than your 'manifestation skills' were very likely at work with your 'meeting' - knowledge is protection and wishful thinking WILL get you every time.

Geez, Anart…. Just to be clear and so as there to be no misunderstandings, basically and in the simplest of terms – and I’m no “evil magician,” either! - I had just read And the Truth Shall Set you Free and Robot’s Rebellion, I think, and thought that what DI was describing was not only intriguing but “fascinating” (read: shocking). Sure I “visualized” speaking with him in my mind, as I was writing my own book discussing conspiracies at the time (among other subjects including ouija board channeling coincidently), and thought it would be cool if I could meet him and include this meeting as part of my book in progress. Then…. it happened.

Now Anart, wouldn’t someone do something similar if they would have been in my shoes?

What I mean to say is, if someone was say, a young guitarist, and was learning how to play and heard or saw Eddie Van Halen (or whomever. NOT that I am comparing EV with DI!!!) and imagined (you know, like the song) Eddie was exchanging guitar riffs with him only to have – through a number of interrelated factors and circumstances – in this analogy the kid’s dad happens to be the stage manager where bands like Van Halen play in concert – a few months or few years later Eddie Van Halen himself, in the flesh, standing in this kid’s garage jamming with him. Just as he had playfully imagined…

You say this is a bad thing? This makes the kid is some sort of “evil magician” dreaming he’s a “magician” - to put in your words?

Wow. I would be interested in hearing how you could come to such a conclusion – that the kid guitarrist is some sort of an Evil Magician using this Eddie Van Halen analogy I've just come up with and shared.

I also fail to see how what you say: “knowledge is protection and wishful thinking WILL get you every time” fits into this? Again, this was one of many “experiments” done in the *spirit of learning/curiosity,* which in this particular instance happened to yield “positive” results. But I have tried other things and haven’t worked while others have. What can I say?

Similarly to the placebo effect….. Some folks manage to somehow “do it” (they believe they are ingesting a “super duper drug” when in truth they are given a water pill) and then WHAM! they get cured! This is a curious medical fact, as you all may know.

So does this make the “placebo patient” then an Evil Magician too? Because the dude somehow “broke” the “rules” (imposed) by Nature? (Or as Seth call them, “root assumptions.”)

Much like Ingo Swann shares in Remote Viewing through Time & Space, the various systems within the human body are capable of so much more than what we currently know or understand. For example, Swann says (paraphrasing), that humans come “pre-wired” with room for many *sci-fi like abilities* (his words) including telepathy. Yet cultural programming – put in place by the “ruling planetary power structures” (a term he used) - *short circuits* these innate human abilities by discouraging people from engaging in them or even discussing them - by wrapping them in fear and shame and even by preventing humans from discussing them in an open and honest manner.

So someone changing nothing more than water into a *powerful cancer curing compound,* for instance, may just be part of the innate “sci-fi like” abilities humans have! Some have used visualization and even prayer to heal themselves from terminal illnesses thus *creating new a reality* - of health for themselves!

But according to what you have stated to me about “creating reality”, what these folks are doing has not merit, might be not even real (as in nothng more than a "delusion" - and if the phenomenon is real, then it is something you consider “evil”!!!

In the "dream landscaspe" (as in lucid dreaming) however, it's a whole different story. "There" (4th density or the "astral plane") one can indeed "create reality" instantaneously! Like we ought to be able to do "here" in some physical systems of reality - IF we had our DNA strands intact But since 10 of our DNA strands are not functioning/have been severed (so-called "junk DNA") due to "our" (this version of Humanity) "destiny karmic profile," (for the record both the Pleidians and the Cassiopaeans have said this).we can not.

In the "dream state" we ARE able to manipulate said realities' "matter" (as in "mind over matter") as our consciousness is not interfaced through our damaged DNA.

Then, after having read all of the above threads - PLEASE search and read the threads on lucid dreaming. This forum is not in existence to help people sleep and dream more efficiently - to help people convince themselves that they can 'manifest' David Icke 'in the flesh' - you, however, seem quite heavily invested in phenomenon chasing, fantasy and dreaming - please - at the very least - get up to speed with these few topics as they have been covered on this forum before posting further.

You have every right in the world to 'lucid dream' all you'd like to – however, this forum is for waking up - please - at the very, very, least, respect this forum enough to get up to speed on these topics.

This forum is not in existence to help people sleep and dream more efficiently - to help people convince themselves that they can 'manifest' David Icke 'in the flesh' - you, however, seem quite heavily invested in phenomenon chasing, fantasy and dreaming.

Anart, please understand that what you call “phenomenon chasing,” “fantasy” and “dreaming” are actually powerful tools that can be used to do *experiments* with reality. This is a Creative Endeavor for me and many others I assure you, for whatever reason, much like some folks like to paint or play the tuba for that matter.

Please keep in mind everyone that the PSI section of the forum states:
PSI The Twilight zone of the mind: oracles, visions, divination, meditation;
share and discuss your experiences and research.

And

What's on your mind: Come in an introduce yourself, talk about anything on your mind, within reason that is

Now Anart let’s take what you call “dreaming” for instance as a “tool” for researching the nature of reality. Are you familiar with Dr. Stephen LaBerge’s work with lucid “dreaming” at Stanford University, I wonder? From what you’ve written, you must think that dreaming or rather lucid dreaming is simply some sort of fantasy or a not worthwhile endeavor to involve oneself in.

But have you read Dr. LaBerge’s books? (They are the best in the field)

(Little personal question here – hope it’s alright - have you ever had a lucid dream in you life?)

Now if you happen to answer “no” to either of those questions, and to be fair (please don’t get mad at me for simply asking a question!!), how can you make an informed critique or have an informed opinion on the matter of “dreaming”?

I ask this – if you’ve researched the subject at all - simply because “dreaming” is not just “sleeping,” but apparently a doorway to alternate realities of existence (Seth et al).

We spend about a **third of our lives** sleeping/dreaming by the way…

So why not take advantage of all that time, if one is able to/ learns HOW to lucid dream through discipline, effort, study, patience and good old hard work? Especially if one has already learnt about some of the “important stuff” like the coming micro chipped population, the funny money deal, the real deal about 911, and about The Wave to name just a few “conspiracies” as well as some psychology (as in psychopathy/ponerology).

So what is wrong if “Stacey” is learning lucid dreaming - when taking a break forom her other studies - as opposed to playing the piano? Especially if this was done in the spirit of seeking the Truth about our Reality, which in this instance, includes, one third of our lives that are spent in bed sleeping

In the book, Lucid Dreaming, Dr. Stepehn LaBerge (Stanford University) shares how when after proving that the phenomena is real (that one can awake inside a dream) – as Western so called “science” beLIEved the phenomenon was "not real" nor possible, as well as an oxymoron (“waking while dreaming”) – by way of scientific instrumentation, LaBerge was not only able to demonstrate that lucid dreaming was indeed VERY real, but he went on to successfully publish papers on the subject.

Incredibly, Dr. LaBerge went on to train a group of his students not only in the art of lucid dreaming but also in Morse code. With the intent that when his students –“dream world explorers”or “oneironauts” he called them – began their REM periods (rapid eye movement sleep), using the small movements of their eyes (in this instance side to side and up and down), they would be able to *communicate* with the “real word” all the way from the world of dreams using the learned Morse code!

This way LaBerge discovered, to name but one example, that time “over there” can either be identical to here or, a few seconds can seem like days. Another good book on the subject is Exploring the World of Dreams.

As you can see Anart, lucid dreaming is not “fantasying” or “day dreaming” but simply another form of consciousness/awareness – a tool – to explore one’s psyche and the nature of reality. Which helps one to “wake up” to the fact that “this” reality is not the only one we “inhabit” or have sensory experiences in. There are many, many more and they are just as “real” as this one.

And if we MUST spend 1/3 of our lives sleeping and dreaming, why not take advantage of said situation? Much can be learned from said “dream” activity including meeting one’s Higher Self and it various “personalities” which exist in different epochs of time and realities and exchange information with them, time/interdimensional travel and anything else one can imagine. “Spiritual teachers” appear to some folks during these experiences by the way.

Hello Racer,

Do you think you can create a version of reality where everyone in this forum will finally realize how great and wise you are ? Because obviously I can't see it and neither the other members.

Short, sweet and to the point.

Thank you, Tigersoap.

You see, Racer, this entire experience you are having is a prime example of objective reality versus subjective YCYOR thinking. You truly believe that you are wise, learned and informed - that you understand the world and how to manifest and how to teach others - you truly believe this - yet - all the deep belief in the world does not change the fact that it is not objectively true.

I really don’t understand what you mean by this, Anart. I mean, why would *you* state that I “truly believe that I am wise, learned and informed”? (Because of what I’m sharing with you and the forum?) Then you say that I, “truly believe I understand the world and how to manifest and how to teach others” and then you add, “you truly believe this - yet - all the deep belief in the world does not change the fact that it is not objectively true”??

Woe…. I didn’t know you knew me better than I know myself as well as what’s in my head. Geez, Anart, please understand I am just answering questions and/or explaining what I’ve shared when asked! Plus sharing what I think is some valiid and cool data, like what Ive shared about the reality of lucid dreaming as related in Dr. LaBerge's lab work.

Why would you try – seemingly – to belittle either me or my posts or my data?

You know, I’m a person, a human being with feelings. And your accusations – one after the other – hurt me on some level.
.
But you know what, Anart? It’s okay. Because I like you all. I’ve been on the site for about 5 years or so. And again, I’m still “learning my way around these parts.”

You cannot make members of this forum 'believe' you because they can See what is behind your words….

Please tell me, what is it that you and other “See” behind my words? Really, exactly what? If anyhting I'm sincere, open, and honest and always looking to learn and try new things.

Are there exceptions - why, of course, there are almost always exceptions - but this situation could be used as quite an important lesson by you if you so choose – that all is NOT how and what you think it is - that you do NOT know what you think you know and that there really is an objective reality, an objective truth whose existence and definition does not rely upon your subjective interpretation.

Just because my world view is not in agreement with what you’ve experienced dear Anart, does not make my gathered knowledge - based both on intellectual research and acquired experiences - which by the way I think are crucial having - both I mean – so as to have a proper and *balanced* understanding of, in this instance, the Field of the Paranormal - "subjective" or invalid or "wishful thinking."

I can back up anything I’ve shared. As it mostly comes from the sources I’ve already mentioned including the C’s material and Laura’s articles and other sources as well.

an objective truth whose existence and definition does not rely upon your subjective interpretation.

The ability to awaken inside one’s dream is an Objective Truth. Scientific papers and experiments and research confirm it.

Are you at all familiar with the Work of GI Gurdjieff - it is upon his Work that this forum is based.

William Patrick Patterson wrote this as a footnote in his book 'Struggle of the Magicians' and I think it fits here

Patterson wrote: Energy, the student believes, is the magic elixir - energy will solve all problems. Instead of submitting to the suffering and remorse that self-seeing must bring, instead of working with his lower centers, he thinks he can finesse the process by adopting techniques for refining energy, such as breathing exercises (or visualizations). As he increases vibration without correspondingly increasing discernment and understanding, he unknowingly projects his ignorance and delusion on the higher levels of energy, thus creating imagination in higher emotional center (where, once imprinted, it is difficult to erase) (assuming he is even equipped with a higher emotional center). Hence, the prevalent contemporary fascination with a variety of psychic phenomenon - the current spiritual materialism masking itself in New Age rhetoric.

In other words, you are asleep, dreaming you are a magician

As he increases vibration without correspondingly increasing discernment and understanding, he unknowingly projects his ignorance and delusion

Does this feel “right” to you?

Saying this?

Honestly and to be candid with you, to me, those sound like nothing more than “dressed up insults.”

And I am sad to say this....

But hey, that’s cool.

Peace, Anart.

 

[anart]

Racer, you are wholly missing the crux of the matter - there is no more simple way to put it. I never suggested you were an 'evil magician' - simply a sheep dreaming he was a magician (this is a reference to a story told by Gurdjieff) I, at no point, insulted you - I don't dislike you in any way shape or form, I am simply pointing out the reasons why you are so far afield from the direction and understanding of this forum - that is one of my functions here.

In fact, you are missing the crux of the matter on pretty much every single topic you brought up in this latest post - but you do not stop yourself long enough to even question your understanding. You overestimate yourself.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to reply to your post point by point, because it has ALL been covered IN DEPTH on this forum. Get up to speed.

I also will not suggest again that you read more and post less - either you choose to do that - sincerely - or you move along to a forum that enjoys dreaming and sleep - this one aims for the opposite and at this point you are distracting and posting noise and expecting everyone to change their understanding to suit you.

You aren't even asking for clarification so much as 'telling us how it is' - please understand and consider - deeply and sincerely consider that you are mistaken.

If you can do that, there is hope. If you cannot, it is time for you to move along.

To sum up: Yes, it does feel 'right' to me - everything I said to you is - to my understanding - completely correct. It has taken time and effort to explain these things to you and you cannot hear them - you overestimate yourself and cannot hear the voices attempting to reach you in your sleep. I am always open to new data and learning more but ALL of this has been covered - we've 'been there and done that' - Racer - if you would like to stay on this forum then you absolutely have to put your sacred cows out to pasture and stop overestimating yourself.

It would also help you if you understood, even peripherally, the work of Gurdjieff, because then, perhaps, you would understand that there is nothing personal in anything that has been said to you. You are identified with what you think you understand (you think it IS you) - that is normal if one is asleep - and WE ARE ALL asleep to one extent or another - but the purpose of this forum is to begin to wake up - not to find ways to sleep more comfortably and dream more deeply that we are magicians and not sheep. No one is insulting you - every single person who has responded is taking you seriously enough to make an effort - but quite a bit of effort has been put in at this point, and you respond with more clarifications of how this forum 'has it wrong'.

Just in case you are actually paying attention and are actually sincere - this quote by Mme de Salzmann may give you more insight... and point out that this is not a game - I cannot, at this point, stress strongly enough how important it is for you to understand what is being said to you an to act on it. We simply don't have time to hand-hold and indulge your need to be correct.

You will see that in life you receive exactly what you give. Your
life is the mirror of what you are. It is in your image. You are
passive, blind, demanding. You take all, you accept all, without
feeling any obligation. Your attitude toward the world and toward
life is the attitude of one who has the right to make demands and to
take, who has no need to pay or to earn. You believe that all things
are your due, simply because it is you! All your blindness is there!
None of this strikes your attention. And yet this is what keeps one
world separate from another world.

You have no measure with which to measure yourself. You live
exclusively according to "I like" or "I don´t like," you have no
appreciation except for yourself. You recognize nothing above you-
theoretically, logically, perhaps, but actually no. That is why you
are demanding and continue to believe that everything is cheap and
that you have enough in your pocket to buy everything you like. You
recognize nothing above you, either outside yourself or inside. That
is why, I repeat, you have no measure and live passively according to
your likes and dislikes.

Yes, your "appreciation of yourself" blinds you. It is the biggest
obstacle to a new life. You must be able to get over this obstacle,
this threshold, before going further. This test divides men into two
kinds: the "wheat" and the "chaff." No matter how intelligent, how
gifted, how brilliant a man may be, if he does not change his
appreciation of himself, there will be no hope for an inner
development, for a work toward self-knowledge, for a true becoming.
He will remain such as he is all his life. The first requirement, the
first condition, the first test for one who wishes to work on himself
is to change his appreciation of himself. He must not imagine, not
simply believe or think, but see things in himself which he has never
seen before, see them actually. His appreciation will never be able
to change as long as he sees nothing in himself. And in order to see,
he must learn to see; this is the first initiation of man into self-
knowledge.

First of all, he has to know what he must look at. When he knows, he
must make efforts, keep his attention, look constantly with
persistence. Only through maintaining his attention, and not
forgetting to look, one day, perhaps, he will be able to see. If he
sees one time he can see a second time, and if that continues he will
no longer be able not to see. This is the state to be looked for, it
is the aim of our observation; it is from there that the true wish
will be born, the irresistible wish to become: from cold we shall
become warm, vibrant; we shall be touched by our reality.

Today we have nothing but the illusion of what we are. We think too
highly of ourselves. We do not respect ourselves. In order to respect
myself, I have to recognize a part in myself which is above the other
parts, and my attitude toward this part should bear witness to the
respect that I have for it. In this way I shall respect myself. And
my relations with others will be governed by the same respect.

You must understand that all the other measures-talent, education,
culture, genius-are changing measures, measures of detail. The only
exact measure, the only unchanging, objective real measure is the
measure of inner vision. I see-I see myself-by this, you have
measured. With one higher real part, you have measured another lower
part, also real. And this measure, defining by itself the role of
each part, will lead you to respect for yourself.

But you will see that it is not easy. And it is not cheap. You must
pay dearly. For bad payers, lazy people, parasites, no hope. You must
pay, pay a lot, and pay immediately, pay in advance. Pay with
yourself. By sincere, conscientious, disinterested efforts. The more
you are prepared to pay without economizing, without cheating,
without any falsification, the more you will receive. And from that
time on you will become acquainted with your nature. And you will see
all the tricks, all the dishonesties that your nature resorts to in
order to avoid paying hard cash. Because you have to pay with your
ready-made theories, with your rooted convictions, with your
prejudices, your conventions, your "I like" and "I don´t like."
Without bargaining, honestly, without pretending. Trying "sincerely"
to see as you offer your counterfeit money.

Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you believe
yourself to be, that you overestimate yourself, in fact that you lie
to yourself. That you always lie to yourself every moment, all day,
all your life. That this lying rules you to such an extent that you
cannot control it any more. You are the prey of lying. You lie,
everywhere. Your relations with others-lies. The upbringing you give,
the conventions-lies. Your teaching-lies. Your theories, your art
lies. Your social life, your family life-lies. And what you think of
yourself-lies also.

But you never stop yourself in what you are doing or in what you are
saying because you believe in yourself. You must stop inwardly and
observe. Observe without preconceptions, accepting for a time this
idea of lying. And if you observe in this way, paying with yourself,
without self-pity, giving up all your supposed riches for a moment of
reality, perhaps you will suddenly see something you have never
before seen in yourself until this day. You will see that you are
different from what you think you are. You will see that you are two.
One who is not, but takes the place and plays the role of the other.
And one who is, yet so weak, so insubstantial, that he no sooner
appears than he immediately disappears. He cannot endure lies. The
least lie makes him faint away. He does not struggle, he does not
resist, he is defeated in advance. Learn to look until you have seen
the difference between your two natures, until you have seen the
lies, the deception in yourself. When you have seen your two natures,
that day, in yourself, the truth will be born.

 

[Rhansen]

As I do want to be on the “same page” with you all, or at least try my best to be. Okay?

Maybe I am 'beating a dead horse' here, but why don't you search a topic before posting about it? For (another) example http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=8116&p=1

It seems that you don't ever question yourself. To "be on the same page" requires some critical self analysis OSIT

 

[Color]

Hello, Anart.

As I try to catch up with the various posts, I feel somewhat overwhelmed by the type of reaction they have generated. .

You should off stopped right there and think about it hard.
It would clearly indicate you how all those posts were not an illusion builder tool,
but coming from an sincere effort, from variate forum members, to point you into a certain NEW direction.

Instead of that, you used it all for your own selfish purpose, to talk some more about your own, well known by now, direction.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but all you wrote was seen here and elsewhere, in many ways, many times before.

Actually, I'm amazed with all the effort and explanations you were given here.
But than again, it has a lot to do with your earlier posts, I guess.
I can only hope that all of them were not a simple ground-preparing
for this new role of yours, where you desperately try to 'educate' us all.

I doubt it can get any more clearer than what was written so far, work with it or leave it.
In a polite way I'm telling you what all the others have said to you: stop waisting our time
and gathering attention with your recent posts and work to educate the student in you,
if nothing else - to bring a teacher role (you like so much), to some new level - unknown to you so far.
It's an amazing adventure, why rejecting it so hard?

 

[mada85]

Please tell me, what is it that you and other “See” behind my words?

I'll invite Mme de Salzmann to answer:

Your "appreciation of yourself" blinds you.

Self-importance, plain and simple.

Mme de Salzmann also says:

Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you believe yourself to be, that you overestimate yourself, in fact that you lie to yourself.

That you always lie to yourself every moment, all day, all your life.

That this lying rules you to such an extent that you cannot control it any more.

You are the prey of lying.

You lie, everywhere.

Your relations with others - lies.

The upbringing you give, the conventions-lies.

Your teaching - lies.

Your theories, your art - lies.

Your social life, your family life - lies.

And what you think of yourself - lies also.

Why does Mme de Salzmann stress that everything about us is lies? It is because we are governed by programs, every moment of our lives. More, we ARE these programs.

To paraphrase:

'Your relations with others – programs.

'Your teachings – programs.

'Your theories, your art – programs.

And what you think of yourself – programs'

This is the lot of humanity. Your self-importance will attach itself to and exploit any part of you, ruthlessly, for it is a predator. It is the part of you that says to your students, 'I am sharing this for your benefit,' but if you were not under its thrall, you would know, plain as the nose on your face, that it is actually saying, 'Follow me and believe in me, for I am The Great Racer Unknown.'

I am not saying that this is easy to accept, let alone to see in oneself. I can talk from experience as it has taken me a long time to realise that when Mme de Salzmann says, '…your art – lies,' she is talking to me.

You are not alone in being challenged in this way, but I find it rather frustrating to see you deflect every insight and pearl of wisdom that is sent your way.

fwiw

 

[Racer_Unknown]

Hi Mada85,

You know, I have had to stop the post I am currently working on – addressing those that have posted stuff to me - so that I can reply to yours, as it has touched me… I feel it is coming from a good place. (Thank You.)

Please bear with me?

You say - using Mme de Salzman’s words – that I have an “appreciation that blinds me,” and that I “have self- importance, plain and simple.”

I have thought about these statements carefully while looking inside myself. Then, I have “felt” them…

And honestly speaking Mada85, and coming from both my mind and my heart – as that’s really all I have – the knowledge and experiences I’ve acquired through my years of research and my desire to help others *who ask* – that you are “correct” in quotes…

What I mean to say is that I DO have an ‘appreciation’ - but not of myself – and believe me when I’m saying this to you, please – but rather for what it is I have learned – the Knowlegde (and/or experience) that is.

Take for instance, psychopathy, which I learned about through Laura,Lobaczewski, and the SOTT researchers/ writers. Said subject has created quite a stir with almost everyone I’ve shared it with! Fact is, it has even cost me a potential friendship and even a writing gig. I’m not kidding. I know it is f’d up, but it is the truth. That simply for sharing knowledge that does not fit into someone’s “reality box” – to borrow an Ingo Swann term - I’ve been shunned from others' reality (box).

Do you think that these folks or any others would persuade me – not “me” but rather what it is I’ve learned –that psychopathy isn’t real for instance?

NO.

Because what I have learned has been both through intellectual research and oftentimes experience (been F'd up by them suckers. So I can confidently say that Psychopathy and Political Poneroly (its results) do exist. My own research into the subject and my own discernment – using logical thinking - TELLS ME that it IS true; that psychopathy isn’t a lie for instance. And so the knowledge that I have gathered from Laura, Lobaczewski
et al does in some sort of way “blind me” to the persuasions (and pressures) that I get from others when I share this reality. Yet they go on to counter what I share with “we are all basically good,” and “we all have the capacity to love” and stuff like this.

Same thing with something like say, “lucid dreaming,” which I learned and experienced through Dr. LaBerge’s books. I have convinced myself – and am fascinated by – the fact that a purely subjective experience can be objectified and measured! That is exciting to me.

The Mme de Salzmann quote then goes on to say that we pretty much lie to ourselves about just about everything… I can see this… and accept it, sure. As I HAVE lied to myself so as to not face the truth about a situation. (At the top of my head, a very painful and somewhat recent past relationship with a “cheater” comes to mind).

But I have to also face myself in the mirror every morning Mada85, and Know that I don’t lie to myself about some of the “far out” topics I’ve learned, including channeling with a ouija board for example.

I KNOW that I am not lying to myself when I read what came through a ouija board for insatnce oh, some 18 years ago. But some folks *do* try and make me doubt this – that I am either lying to them about the phenomenon or that it could be explained “logically and scientifically” – as in the “messages” are nothing more than unconscious nervous system “twitches.”

But how can I simply bow and accept this they are saying to me when I know it is simply untrue? That there is some sort of intelligence behind such communications

You state: “Your self-importance will attach itself to and exploit any part of you, ruthlessly, for it is a predator. It is the part of you that says to your students, 'I am sharing this for your benefit,' but if you were not under its thrall, you would know, plain as the nose on your face, that it is actually saying, 'Follow me and believe in me, for I am The Great Racer Unknown.'[/b]

But please understand brother when I say that I would never and have never, ever, said even in the “secret chambers” of my mind: 'Follow me and believe in me, for I am The Great Racer Unknown.' Never. And I give you my word.

You see, I have to face myself in the mirror everyday. Who knows? I may die tomorrow. And the ONLY thing I can *take* with me is what I have learned and what I am – as a person.

To be fair and to be honest, I must say that at times I HAVE felt this “predator of self-importance” described when I was younger, as I was unaware of many things I’ve learned since. And of course, there are many more things I’ve yet to learn about. But I’m in the process of doing so. And guess what? As you say, “it was not an easy thing to accept! That I’d had fallen for “self-importance.”” I recall feeling this way! But unfortunately at that time, I did not have the insights you are providing nor a teacher to point this to me as you are doing now. AGain, thank you.

But I am sorry to say that in good conscience I cannot say to you, myself, or to anyone that (at least some of)my “theories” and my “art” (similar to my “experiments”) are lies.

I must stand strong in what I have experienced and discovered. As these things are part of what I am.

When a friend and I first began experimenting with a ouija board some 18 years ago or so, I don’t know what really happened… But “something” came through. It was wise, intelligent and caring enough to say that “they” could not tell all or there would be nothing to learn. To not simply ask, but seek.

And they left some “artifacts” behind that could be *seen* by others!! (No, this is not related to my “flower dream”). For this I am grateful, because if it weren't for these peices there would be a lot of self doubt.

How could I call these gifts (poems) “lies”?

As you may know, channeling through a ouija board is very tedious and time consuming. As the words come through letter by letter. Here are a couple of them "weaved" by what appaeared to be a "loving Intelligence." I’d like to share some with you… only to convey that although there are lies and liars out there, sure, there is also Truth -

A truth that revelas itself to those willing to see it.

In closing, thank you for taking the time to write what you have.

Peace.


What is Love?

Love is only a four-letter word, yet letters mean nothing.
Love is a riddle… But let me try and make you understand,
It is the tears that you emit from your eyes,
it is the happiness that makes you smile.

Love is a rainy day; it is a day without a cloud.
If there were none of these, there would be no Love.

Love is a riddle… Can you figure it out?

Love never was, Love never will be…
Love is Now, it is, It always will be.

Love has no meaning, Love has no description.
You can’t see it, you can’t taste it, you can’t hear it.
Do you ever wonder if you are ever truly feeling it?

Love is a lie… Love is the Truth. Do you believe in Love?
If you do, I love you and you Love me, together we are Love.


The Sounds of Soul

A mist of dust is falling…
As they crash with thundering snaps,
the leaves, they fall, as the comforting wind
shows them the way down to their rebirth.

There are waves slashing the awaiting sands
as they become engulfed by the hands of the Lord.

Oh, what a beautiful place this is,
where the trees bow with a smile;
where love is truly elucidated.

There is a wonderful light that shines.

You can reach further than what is conceived of as time
and yet not find a switch,
as for the light cannot be put to darkness.

Oh, I can feel the laughter,
as I tremble like a screaming volcano.

The music, yes, I can hear it!
My ears shake like bells being flung.
Oh, my heart sings the dazzling melody
as we become a raging orchestra.

We play in harmony: the Sounds of Soul.

The slam of a wink,
the swirls of breath;
Oh, how jubilant is thee!
I am home at last, I am free!

 

[Mr. Premise]

RU, maybe the Salzmann quote would make more sense to you if you realize that as soon as we say the word 'I' we are lying. I think that may be the heart of it. In other words, we can go around thinking to ourselves, "I like this," or "I don't like that" or "I think this" or "I don't think that" and it's all lies because that 'I' is the false personality, it isn't one and it isn't the true 'I', so therefore it's all lies. Everything that we think about ourselves... everything we think about other people and things...

Anyways, once I (there is that word again! a lie!) looked at it that way, the quote made more sense to me and helped me, so I hope it helps you.