abovetopscret.com, Project SERPO, Project Camelot, Project Avalon

[Andrew]

Project Camelot-State of The World

But if those "alternative perspectives" and "things unorthodox" do not reflect objective reality -- where is the "service"? There is nothing to be gained by replacing one illusion with another, simply because it is "different". A lie that contains a little bit of truth is still a lie -- one of the most effective lies there is, as all good COINTELPRO agents know....

Yes it is still a lie, however, it provides a unique opportunity for individuals to see things from a different light, and in that sense provides an excellent opportunity for them to open new doors leading down coveted avenues. And I'm referring to their material in general here. Alternative perspectives that lead to alternative questions are what break the cycle. It may not be "service" as you might be familiar with it, but for newcomers it is a definite service in the potential of awakening them from their sleep state. If anything it's going to blow their tops with the impression that there is a possibility that this "stuff" is real - which leads to more questions and further learning development.

Whether you agree with it or not my friend, Camelot's material just might be a pathway that aids certain individuals through their process of awakening - never rule out any possibilities.

However you do hold a strong point. For those veterans already familiar and have some experience with such material undoubtedly know better - my statement was aimed more towards those just waking up as it seems that's the type of people they attract in general.

 

[Redrock12]

Project Camelot-State of The World

According to my Stats 101 class, anything is possible, but not everything is probable.
What proof do you have that Camelot's material just might be a pathway that aids certain individuals through their process of awakening? Imo, it would in no wayserve the newly awakened to read misinformation, other than to act as a delaying tactic by the PTB. When I began to stir from my sleep, I spent a lot of years wading through
Jeff Rense, David Icke, Godlike Productions, etc etc searching for the elusive truth until I stumbled onto Cassiopaea in early 2006.
All that Rense, Icke, and GLP did was help me realize that there was something missing with these guys. I felt after six years that I was going in circles, knowing that something was not right, but not knowing what. Did they help me find, or even get close to, the truth? Nope.
Was some of their stuff spot on? Yes, but either deliberately leaving out pieces of the puzzle or not knowing they're leaving out pieces amounts to pretty much the same thing: distortion and obfuscation.

 

[Andrew]

Project Camelot-State of The World

What proof do you have that Camelot's material just might be a pathway that aids certain individuals through their process of awakening?... When I began to stir from my sleep, I spent a lot of years wading through Jeff Rense, David Icke, Godlike Productions, etc etc searching for the elusive truth until I stumbled onto Cassiopaea in early 2006.
All that Rense, Icke, and GLP did was help me realize that there was something missing with these guys. I felt after six years that I was going in circles, knowing that something was not right, but not knowing what. Did they help me find, or even get close to, the truth? Nope.
Was some of their stuff spot on? Yes, but either deliberately leaving out pieces of the puzzle or not knowing they're leaving out pieces amounts to pretty much the same thing: distortion and obfuscation.

Well I can't give you proof but I can give my understanding. You began with disinformation waded through it to come to a realization that something was missing leading you eventually to a source that resonated best with you, in this case the Cassiopaean material. The C's say it best:


Q: (L) I just want to be sure that the source that I am acquiring the knowledge from is not a deceptive source.
A: If you simply have faith, no knowledge that you could possibly acquire could possibly be false because there is no such thing. Anyone or anything that tries
to give you false knowledge, false information, will fail. The very material substance that the knowledge takes on, since it is at the root of all existence, will
protect you from absorption of false information which is not knowledge. There is no need to fear the absorption of false information when you are simply
openly seeking to acquire knowledge. And knowledge forms the protection -- all the protection you could ever need.
Q: (L) There are an awful lot of people who are being open and trusting and having faith who are getting zapped and knocked on their rears.
A: No. That is simply your perception. What you are failing to perceive is that these people are not really gathering knowledge. These people are stuck at some
point in their pathway to progress and they are undergoing a hidden manifestation of what is referred to in your terms as obsession. Obsession is not
knowledge, obsession is stagnation. So, when one becomes obsessed, one actually closes off the absorption and the growth and the progress of soul
development which comes with the gaining of true knowledge. For when one becomes obsessed one deteriorates the protection therefore one is open to
problems, to tragedies, to all sorts of difficulties. Therefore one experiences same.

The point is, is regardless if its disinformation it eventually leads you to the Truth if your dedicated to discovering the Truth. If not then yes I suppose disinformation would be damaging. But I think you've gotta understand the lies before you can understand the Truth, and digging through all of the disinformation and connecting the dots takes time and patience but its through this perseverance that eventually leads you to Your Truth

Did they help me find, or even get close to, the truth? Nope.

How did you find the Cassiopaea material then?

What might you discover beyond that?

Step-by-Step we go. . .

 

[PepperFritz]

Project Camelot-State of The World

Andrew, no one here has suggested that one should "fear" disinformation sites like The Camelot Project, for as the C's point out, one's sincere quest for knowledge will ensure that you will never get "stuck" in false information. But it is a huge leap beyond that fact to suggest that such sites perform a "service" to those seeking knowledge, and/or that the disinformation they promote somehow leads the seeker to real knowledge. You are seeing a "cause and effect" relationship where none exists.

Here's an analogy to illustrate the flaw in your logic:

A man has a sincere desire to reach a certain town, and sets off down the road to find it. Along the way he comes across road signs directing him to the town. Not realizing that the signs have been set up by those either intending to mislead him to a different town, or by well-meaning individuals who have never been to the town he seeks, and do not really know the way there, he follows the directions given in good faith. But the signs only lead him in endless circles, dead-ends, and to towns masquerading as the one he is looking for. Along the way he meets many others who have been misled by the signs, and who believe they are where they are not, but because the man has such a burning desire to reach his true destination, he knows something is not quite right and continues to search, eventually uncovering the knowledge that leads him to his ultimate destination.

Did the false road signs provide him with a valuable service, eventually leading him to where he wanted to go? No, of course not -- they only distracted and delayed his journey. Because he eventually reached his destination, can it be said that it was the false road signs that eventually led him to his destination? Of course not -- it was his sincere desire to reach his destination the led him there, in spite of the misleading information he encountered along the way.

One of the aims of SOTT is to clearly identify misinformation sites, so that those individuals with a sincere desire for Knowledge do not have to waste their time and energy wading through garbage that will not help their quest. If it did not provide that service, would those individuals become hopelessly lost in such misinformation? No, of course not, their sincere desire would eventually bring them out of the quagmire. But they will have wasted a lot of valuable time and energy there, which could have been avoided if they had been provided with an accurate map in the first place.

Did they help me find, or even get close to, the truth? Nope.

How did you find the Cassiopaea material then?

The misinformation sites did not lead him to the Cassiopaea material; his sincere desire for Knowledge led him to the Cassiopaea material. The misinformation sites did not initiate his awakening process. His desire to awaken initiated his search for Knowledge. He just happened to stumble across a lot of misinformation along the way.

You see?

 

[go2]

Project Camelot-State of The World

The misinformation sites did not lead him to the Cassiopaea material; his sincere desire for Knowledge led him to the Cassiopaea material. The misinformation sites did not initiate his awakening process. His desire to awaken initiated his search for Knowledge. He just happened to stumble across a lot of misinformation along the way.

What is the orgin of "his desire to awaken"?
Could it be the increasing level of fear generated by
disinformation initiated the search for Knowledge?
Do some have the "sincere desire" from another source?

For when one becomes obsessed one deteriorates the protection therefore one is open to
problems, to tragedies, to all sorts of difficulties. Therefore one experiences same.

My experience is I only developed a "sincere desire" to a know the Truth, when obsession
led to bankrupcy. In this sense, the lies I absorbed and maintained led to increasing internal
contradictions and fear, and by this tortured logic, disinformation initiated a "sincere desire"
for Knowledge. Looking back, I have always had a small voice wishing to know the Truth, but
the glimpses of Truth were often frightening and certainly not encouraged by others. I turned
away for decades, before the necessity increased to the point of "paying any price" was
accepted. By the way, Pepperfritz, I loved your analogy.

 

[PepperFritz]

Project Camelot-State of The World

What is the origin of "his desire to awaken"?

There is only one answer to that question: His soul.

You state that "I only developed a "sincere desire" to a know the Truth, when obsession led to bankruptcy", but then go on to acknowledge: "Looking back, I have always had a small voice wishing to know the Truth". You wonder "Could it be the increasing level of fear generated by disinformation initiated the search for Knowledge?", but then go on to say that your "glimpses of Truth were often frightening" and you therefore "turned
away for decades". So, clearly, your desire for Truth/Knowledge preceded your obsession with misinformation, and you also instinctively recognized Truth and Knowledge before becoming bogged down in that misinformation. Seems that you deliberately swam in those waters in order to avoid the Truth/Knowledge that you found so frightening, until you finally got sick enough of it to follow that "small voice" and face your fears. Again, it was not the misinformation that led you to Knowledge, it was your desire for that Knowledge.

I think there is an emotional need to want to see our "misadventures in misinformation" as being somehow necessary to our journey, to the point that we want to believe that they were actually instrumental in helping us to discover true Knowledge. It is really difficult for us to accept that we could have wasted that much time and energy on what was essentially nonsense. But we did. We all did. No need to beat ourselves up for it, but there's also no need to make it more than it was.

 

[Andrew]

Project Camelot-State of The World

Andrew, no one here has suggested that one should "fear"

The point was, was being open to all information regardless.

Here's an analogy to illustrate the flaw in your logic:

A man has a sincere desire to reach a certain town, and sets off down the road to find it. Along the way he comes across road signs directing him to the town. Not realizing that the signs have been set up by those either intending to mislead him to a different town, or by well-meaning individuals who have never been to the town he seeks, and do not really know the way there,
he follows the directions given in good faith. But the signs only lead him in endless circles, dead-ends, and to towns masquerading as the one he is looking for.


Are these not apart of the trials and tribulations one must go through in order to reach the initiated stage of sincerity to ones quest?
Do the STS forces not provide the perfect catalysts for a Truth Seekers Soul development? How else would we grow if we didn't have them?


Traversing down the roads of disinformation. Had he not learned this was not what he was looking for, how would he adjust his aim to that which he is? If he hasn't been there before, it would be a miracle for him to reach it his first try. All are lessons, no?

Along the way he meets many others who have been misled by the signs, and who believe they are where they are not, but because the man has such a burning desire to reach his true destination, he knows something is not quite right and continues to search
(Do you not think that once one has been misled the desire burns stronger then before, providing the necessary energy to keep going on ones quest? Can't expect everyone to find the truth instantaneously.), eventually uncovering the knowledge that leads him to his ultimate destination.

However, you may be right. But I look at it as you attract to you the knowledge necessary in order to provide the appropriate catalysts that promote Soul development. I know for one thing in my experience I sure didn't come across the Cass material or SOTT, or that there might even be a Truth out there, until after I had dug my way through mounds of disinfo. It took me a few years to find information that I actually resonated with but how else does one get there?

Your right in the sense of it being a sincere desire, but if that desire wasn't sincere don't you think the man would have eventually gotten lost and given up? The Truth seems to give it self to a. those who ask and b. those are are willing to do the necessary work to discover that Truth which they yearn for so deeply. However all Truths in some way or another are unique and different for each individual, but comprise a greather whole when locked in within a resonating network of individuals. Sorry going off on tangent a tad there.

What I'm not understanding from what your saying is how does one get from point A, the point of simple awakening to point C, the point of discovering Your Truth? Wouldn't you have to first go through point B, the disinformation to even discover that there is a point C?
What I seem to be getting from what your saying is that if the desire is strong enough the Truth presents itself instantaneously? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Did the false road signs provide him with a valuable service, eventually leading him to where he wanted to go? No, of course not -- they only distracted and delayed his journey.
( Yes of course it distracted and delayed his Journey that's the point of disinformation, but that's what you learn from is it not?)

Because he eventually reached his destination, can it be said that it was the false road signs that eventually led him to his destination? Of course not -- it was his sincere desire to reach his destination the led him there, in spite of the misleading information he encountered along the way.
One of the aims of SOTT is to clearly identify misinformation sites, so that those individuals with a sincere desire for Knowledge do not have to waste their time and energy wading through garbage that will not help their quest. If it did not provide that service, would those individuals become hopelessly lost in such misinformation? No, of course not, their sincere desire would eventually bring them out of the quagmire. But they will have wasted a lot of valuable time and energy there, which could have been avoided if they had been provided with an accurate map in the first place.
(How is one provided with an accurate roapmap? How would one know they even have an accurate road-map if they haven't done their own personal work to be able to discern this? )

 

[Andrew]

Project Camelot-State of The World

It is really difficult for us to accept that we could have wasted that much time and energy on what was essentially nonsense. But we did. We all did. No need to beat ourselves up for it, but there's also no need to make it more than it was.

Who says it was wasted time or energy? You learned from it didn't you?

 

[anart]

Project Camelot-State of The World

However all Truths in some way or another are unique and different for each individual, but comprise a greather whole when locked in within a resonating network of individuals. Sorry going off on tangent a tad there.

What I'm not understanding from what your saying is how does one get from point A, the point of simple awakening to point C, the point of discovering Your Truth? Wouldn't you have to first go through point B, the disinformation to even discover that there is a point C?

What do you mean by 'all truths' and 'your truth'???

Either something is THE truth - objectively true - or it is not. Perhaps you do not understand the concept of objective truth?

Also...

Who says it was wasted time or energy? You learned from it didn't you?

You seem to be a bit identified with disinformation being valuable - there seems to be a part of you that WANTS it all to be worth the time spent on it. It is much more likely that 'false information is worse than no information at all' - do you understand the ramifications of that statement?

 

[Andrew]

Project Camelot-State of The World

What do you mean by 'all truths' and 'your truth'???
Either something is THE truth - objectively true - or it is not. Perhaps you do not understand the concept of objective truth?

I see your point. however in the process of discovering objective Truth would you not say we have to come to learn to understand our own internal Truths first to reach that objective truth, let alone to even understand what "Objective Truth" is?

Me personally understand Objective Truth to the best of my ability at my current stage of development. For me it is essentially anything that can be looked at without Subjective reasoning or logic, or personal attachment to that perceived thing and being able to see it for what it is, why it is, and how it is in the Grand Scheme of things and not necessarily how YOU want to see it.
Being here in a subjectively dominated realm I will admit attaining and knowing Objective Truth when you "think" you have found it is not so simple.

Have you Anart discovered Objective Truth? What is it for you?

You seem to be a bit identified with disinformation being valuable - there seems to be a part of you that WANTS it all to be worth the time spent on it.

No there isn't apart of me that WANTS it to be worth the time spent on, it was worth the time spent on or else I wouldn't know anything period. I'm grateful for all that I have come across whether it be "disinformation" or not because in the long run it has helped me to further my development and discover my own internal Truth extending forth toward Objective Truth. Objective Truth is not something you attain automatically but through a long process of research and discovery.

It is much more likely that 'false information is worse than no information at all' - do you understand the ramifications of that statement?

Yes I do. But only if the individual accepts that information that one receives as being 100% true. But that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is being open to all avenues, keeping an open mind with what one receives and not naively accepting everything but questioning it, its only a matter of time before one learns one's lesson in discernment and ascends their own staircase to Soul Development.

 

[anart]

Project Camelot-State of The World

I see your point. however in the process of discovering objective Truth would you not say we have to come to learn to understand our own internal Truths first to reach that objective truth, let alone to even understand what "Objective Truth" is?

Sure, in a way, but that is not what you said above - you are twisting what you've written above - now why is that?

No there isn't apart of me that WANTS it to be worth the time spent on, it was worth the time spent on or else I wouldn't know anything period.

I think that's faulty logic, actually - you can't really know such a thing.

I'm grateful for all that I have come across whether it be "disinformation" or not because in the long run it has helped me to further my development and discover my own internal Truth extending forth toward Objective Truth.

Ok - all there is is lessons, however, the problem with disinformation, especially when one is identified with it is that it can 'leave a stain' - a stain through which everything else is seen. It doesn't always do this, of course, but it can, even if one does not identify with it.

Objective Truth is not something you attain automatically but through a long process of research and discovery.

Who said differently? Again, you are twisting what has been written - not a good sign.

Yes I do. But only if the individual accepts that information that one receives as being 100% true.

Not necessarily - a person can just consider it to be likely or probably true, or it can lead a person down the garden path in any number of ways.

That is entirely foolish but by being open to all avenues, keeping an open mind with what one receives and not naively accepting everything but questioning it, its only a matter of time before one learns one's lesson in discernment and ascends their own staircase to Soul Development.

Actually, it is my understanding that it isn't, by any stretch of the imagination, 'only a matter of time' before one 'ascends' the staircase. Ascending the staircase takes enormous amounts of Work, preceded by a complete bankruptcy and enabled by Working in unison with a colinear, objective Network - it cannot be done alone, it does not just 'happen', it is not 'a matter of time'. fwiw.

 

[mamadrama]

Project Camelot-State of The World

That is entirely foolish but by being open to all avenues, keeping an open mind with what one receives and not naively accepting everything but questioning it, its only a matter of time before one learns one's lesson in discernment and ascends their own staircase to Soul Development.

Or follows the Path to the Temple of Secrets

"The Temple of Secrets is located on a high mountain, and everywhere thorns are covering the path leading to the Temple. The inconceivable, mysterious height of the mountain is the reason why many people doubt the existence of the Temple of Secrets. Some think of it as a Fairy Tale, some consider it an old Myth and others believe it to be the Truth.
At the entrance of the narrow path stands IGONORANCE, with her sisters STUPIDITY and LAZINESS, and they tell awful tales to the travelers and of horrible adventures the travelers will encounter if they set foot on this path. That is how lazy Human Beings and fearful Human Beings can easily be persuaded to turn back.
There are a few Human Beings on which ignorance attempts her deceptions in vain. They climb up the first part of the thorny steep path, and when they are about half way up the mountain, they reach a plateau on which they find the Temple of Self-Love...
However, those whose heart searches for the truth will not find any satisfaction with this and they will keep on searching.
A few thousand steps from this Temple you will find a very secluded little hut, inhabited by a hermit, with the following inscription above the door: The Residence of Humility...
Humillity alone is the best guide. This alone will lead the seeker to the Master of Teachers of all secrets. This Master Teacher is the PURE WILL."

So, IMHO, yes these sites cause damage, they are full of lies and deceptions and some get stuck there but they also provide snippets of truth that some can use as the begining of the thorny path that one must walk to find the Truth.

 

[Andrew]

Project Camelot-State of The World

Sure, in a way, but that is not what you said above - you are twisting what you've written above - now why is that?

I'm trying to learn my friend. But please do elaborate.

I think that's faulty logic, actually - you can't really know such a thing.

You think its faulty logic, but is it?
I can't know such things but my experiences can give me clues.

Ok - all there is is lessons, however, the problem with disinformation, especially when one is identified with it is that it can 'leave a stain' - a stain through which everything else is seen. It doesn't always do this, of course, but it can, even if one does not identify with it.

Couldn't agree more.

Who said differently? Again, you are twisting what has been written - not a good sign.

Please clarify. And its not a good sign of what? All I'm trying to do is learn, nothing more - sharing my understanding with those of others.

Not necessarily - a person can just consider it to be likely or probably true, or it can lead a person down the garden path in any number of ways.

Your right. There are a multitude of ways.

Actually, it is my understanding that it isn't, by any stretch of the imagination, 'only a matter of time' before one 'ascends' the staircase. Ascending the staircase takes enormous amounts of Work, preceded by a complete bankruptcy and enabled by Working in unison with a colinear, objective Network - it cannot be done alone, it does not just 'happen', it is not 'a matter of time'. fwiw.

Can I ask how you have come to learn what you know today? How did it start for you, where did it take you, where have you ended up? How do you feel about where you have ended up if anywhere at all?

 

[Andrew]

Project Camelot-State of The World

So, IMHO, yes these sites cause damage, they are full of lies and deceptions and some get stuck there but they also provide snippets of truth that some can use as the beginning of the thorny path that one must walk to find the Truth.

Yes and that is essentially where I have been going with this - they do provide snippets of Truth and if your brought to any of those sites or information you were brought there to learn something; once you learn, that material no longer serves its purpose for you but vaults you toward your next objective or next learning experience. But I think if you become attached to any of it then that attachment has the potential to leave a 'stain' as Anart put it, on your perceptions.

 

[anart]

Project Camelot-State of The World

I'm trying to learn my friend. But please do elaborate.

Interesting how on this forum, often when someone uses the term 'my friend' this way, they mean the opposite.

By 'twisting' - I mean that you are changing what has been written - you are taking the original meaning of what was written and twisting it to serve your purposes. This is usually done by those who 'must be right' - look up 'right man syndrome' on the Cass glossary or search the forum for it.

It is also done by those who have a chronic inability to grasp the crux of the matter. Because they cannot understand what others mean when they write certain things, they twist what is written to suit their own understanding - no matter how far afield that understanding is from the truth.

It might also benefit you to look up 'self-importance' on the Cass glossary for some insight.

Hope that helps.