War in Israel-Palestine - October 2023

[Ca.]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1738156387522199650

https://twitter.com/x/status/1738529705978966212

Houthis Brush Off US Threats, Vow to Intensify Anti-Israeli Ops if Gaza Conflict Not Halted

Earlier this week, the United States announced that it was putting together a military coalition tasked with ensuring the safety of navigation through the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden. The move comes after Yemen’s Ansar Allah (Houthi) militias effectively closed down the waterways to Israeli...

sputnikglobe.com

6 hours ago (Updated: 5 hours ago)

Earlier this week, the United States announced that it was putting together a military coalition tasked with ensuring the safety of navigation through the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden. The move comes after Yemen’s Ansar Allah (Houthi) militias effectively closed down the waterways to Israeli shipping in response to Tel Aviv’s ongoing war in Gaza.

The Houthis have dismissed the US-led military coalition being assembled against them, warning that they have “multiple options” to continue targeting Israel if the IDF’s operations in Gaza aren’t halted.

“If the Zionist regime does not stop its assaults on Gaza or anywhere else across the Palestinian lands and doesn’t lift its siege, our forces will exercise more options,” Maj. Gen. Mohammad Nasser al-Atifi, the Houthi-led government of national salvation’s defense minister, warned in a speech before other militia leaders late Friday.

“Our eyes are monitoring and closely following the movements of the [Israeli] entity worldwide,” al-Atifi added.

“The recent decisions by foreign military forces and their regional mercenaries have put many tasks before us, the most daunting of which is the exercise of vigilance and watchfulness,” the senior Houthi official said, referring to the US-led coalition.

Brig. Gen. Youssef al-Madani, commander of the 5th Military Region – situated to the east of the Red Sea along the coastal Al Hudaydah governorate, said his forces are fully cognizant of the “sensitivity” of the current phase of Houthi operations, emphasizing that the militias are “prepared, vigilant and eager to confront the Zionists and those who are fighting with them.”



Al-Atifi stressed that the Houthis are fighting for the sake of the national security of the Arab and Islamic World, and that their actions “serve the interests of countries working to liberate themselves from the domination of the Zionist entity and the United States on a global scale.”

“There are countries that cannot even consider using force because the situation requires brave and strategic decisions. The leader of the nation, Sayyed Abdul-Malik al-Houthi, possesses courage, audacity and independent decision-making,” Al-Atifi said. He went on to slam the international community for failing to adopt an “appropriate” stance on Israel amid the ongoing Gaza crisis.

The Houthis managed to effectively shut down the Red Sea to Israeli-owned and Israeli-bound maritime traffic via a spate of hijackings, missile and drone attacks on commercial carriers over the past month, starting with the seizure of the Israeli-owned ro-ro car carrier Galaxy Leader on November 19.

The unrelenting attacks prompted international shipping giants including Maersk, Hapag-Lloyd, MSC, and CMA CGM to suspend operations through the Red Sea, adding billions of dollars to shipping costs as vessels are forced to find alternate routes. Israeli ports have faced particularly heavy losses from the Houthis’ actions, with the nation’s Eilat Port facing an 85 percent drop in activity, and Israeli cargoes facing skyrocketing insurance costs.

The US began amassing warships in the region last week, and on Monday Pentagon chief Lloyd Austin announced Operation Prosperity Guardian, “an important new multinational security initiative under the umbrella of the Combined Maritime Forces and the leadership of its Task Force 153, which focuses on security in the Red Sea.”

Austin listed ten nations he said were participating in the coalition, including the US, the UK, Canada, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Bahrain and the Seychelles. The Pentagon upped the number to “over 20 nations” on Friday, but did not elaborate on which countries specifically are involved.

But part from the ships of US Task Force 153, which includes between three and five US destroyers, the British HMS Diamond missile destroyer and a Greek Navy frigate, the coalition is shaping up to include only a handful of troops from US-allied countries, including the Netherlands (which is sending two officers), Norway (10 officers), Australia (11 troops), Canada (three officers), and Denmark (one officer). France and Italy have each indicated that any naval forces they have in the region will remain under national command, while Spain said it will not take part in any military operation unless it is under the direction of NATO or the EU.

To date, US operations have apparently been limited to chasing after Houthi speedboats zipping around Red Sea waters trying to hijack commercial vessels. Media have reported that the Pentagon is considering direct military strikes against the militia inside Yemen. The Houthis have ignored these threats, vowing to continue their campaign against Israel, and warning that they reserve the right to start attacking coalition warships if attacked themselves.

Hezbollah Targets Israeli Troops, Fires Burkan Rocket From Southern Lebanon (Videos)

Hezbollah launched a new wave of attacks against the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) from southern Lebanon on December 23. The...

southfront.press

#ISRAEL#LEBANON 23.12.2023 Video

 

[sToRmR1dR]

'"Collective action": The US aims to use the naval coalition just to provoke war with Iran.'

Iran ‘deeply involved’ in attacks on shipping – US

The White House says it is considering additional actions in response to Houthi Red Sea attacks

www.rt.com

23 Dec, 2023

 

[loreta]

'"Collective action": The US aims to use the naval coalition just to provoke war with Iran.'

Iran ‘deeply involved’ in attacks on shipping – US

The White House says it is considering additional actions in response to Houthi Red Sea attacks

www.rt.com

23 Dec, 2023

I can not read the article because in Spain we have no acces to RT, but it is important to remember that one of the objectives of Israel, since many many years, is that of attacking Iran. Laurent Guyénot says that Israel wants to be the only one, in the region, to have the atomic bomb. Nobody else has the right to have it. And he also says that one of the objectives of this genocide in Gaza is being able to attack Iran.

 

[sToRmR1dR]

I can not read the article because in Spain we have no acces to RT, but it is important to remember that one of the objectives of Israel, since many many years, is that of attacking Iran. Laurent Guyénot says that Israel wants to be the only one, in the region, to have the atomic bomb. Nobody else has the right to have it. And he also says that one of the objectives of this genocide in Gaza is being able to attack Iran.

Iran ‘deeply involved’ in attacks on shipping – US​

Tehran has provided tactical intelligence critical to Houthi strikes in the Red Sea, according to the White House

The United States has accused Iran of being “deeply involved” in attacks by Houthi rebels on commercial ships in the Red Sea. Tehran has provided drones and missiles to the Houthis, as well as tactical intelligence “critical in enabling” the strikes, the White House has said.

Since last month, Yemen’s Houthis have launched multiple drone and missile attacks on international shipping in the Red Sea, disrupting maritime traffic.

“We know that Iran was deeply involved in planning the operations against commercial vessels in the Red Sea,” White House national security spokeswoman Adrienne Watson said in a statement, adding that it is “an international challenge that demands collective action.” The White House has also said it is mulling additional actions to respond to the Houthis.

The group has claimed the attacks are in response to Israeli strikes in Gaza. The conflict in the Palestinian enclave escalated on October 7 when Hamas fighters attacked Israel, killing about 1,200 people and taking scores hostage. Israel’s retaliatory operation against Gaza, which Israeli officials say is aimed at wiping out the militant group, has left more than 20,000 dead so far, according to local health officials. The Houthis have pledged to continue targeting ships sailing close to Yemen as long as Israel continues its war on Hamas.

The United States has accused Iran of being “deeply involved” in attacks by Houthi rebels on commercial ships in the Red Sea. Tehran has provided drones and missiles to the Houthis, as well as tactical intelligence “critical in enabling” the strikes, the White House has said.

Since last month, Yemen’s Houthis have launched multiple drone and missile attacks on international shipping in the Red Sea, disrupting maritime traffic.

“We know that Iran was deeply involved in planning the operations against commercial vessels in the Red Sea,” White House national security spokeswoman Adrienne Watson said in a statement, adding that it is “an international challenge that demands collective action.” The White House has also said it is mulling additional actions to respond to the Houthis.

The group has claimed the attacks are in response to Israeli strikes in Gaza. The conflict in the Palestinian enclave escalated on October 7 when Hamas fighters attacked Israel, killing about 1,200 people and taking scores hostage. Israel’s retaliatory operation against Gaza, which Israeli officials say is aimed at wiping out the militant group, has left more than 20,000 dead so far, according to local health officials. The Houthis have pledged to continue targeting ships sailing close to Yemen as long as Israel continues its war on Hamas.

Iran has repeatedly denied involvement in attacks by the Houthis in the Red Sea. Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Nasser Kanaani stressed in early December that “resistance groups” are acting independently and “not taking orders from Tehran to confront the war crimes and genocide committed by Israel.”

On Wednesday, ex-National Security Advisor to Donald Trump and former US Ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton, argued in the Washington Post that the administration of President Joe Biden was showing weakness in its treatment of the Houthis. Bolton also cited Iranian Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian, who recently told The New York Times that the US must face “consequences” for its support of Israel. However, White House National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said this week that the US would not “telegraph any punches one way or the other.”

Last week, the US announced a naval coalition of 20 mostly NATO countries to jointly patrol the Red Sea area in order to repel and respond to Houthi attacks. The strikes have disrupted a key trade route linking Europe and North America with Asia via the Suez Canal, and caused delays in deliveries and dramatically raised shipping costs as vessels are being forced to take alternative and longer routes.

 

[Keit]

I would like for you to know that everywhere, there exist people who see through the lies, on many different levels.

I would like to share my thoughts on what you wrote and the feedback you got.

I lived in Israel for 20 years and have a deep understanding of an Israeli society and mentality. More so, even if I haven't visited Israel for the past 11 years, I still have ties to it and an appreciation of an Israeli or Jewish culture in general, not only because I still have relatives living there, but also because it became a part of me after living there for such a long time. Therefore I can recognize the reluctance to see what is happening now in supposedly "black and white" terms.

I wasn't that much interested in politics or what goes on in the world when I was younger, and then in the later years I also was leaning more to the "left", even if I didn't dare to express this openion openly (It wasn't as accepted back then as it is now). I did follow the testimonies by "Breaking the Silence" guys, and also went on one of the tours to Hebron that they organized.

It's also important to mention that I didn't feel quite at home either. It wasn't my choice to immigrate to Israel, and I never got used to the climate, but I did adapt and intergrated into the society, also because I immigrated in the young age. And I also got a chance to experience the religious aspect by studying in Beit Rivka (Chabad boarding school). And this was objectively the most positive period of my young life.

Anyways, I started learning and reading all kind of sources. It happened after 9/11. All kind of things that pointed toward Israel's role in the conflict. That it had an interest in instigating the conflict and leading it to the Palestinian "final solution".

I also read ex Mossad agent Ostrovsky's "By way of deception", which opened my eyes to even deeper machinations that were done by an Israeli side. There are also additional materials, especially Jewish religious ones that pointed toward the innate "specialness" of the nation and that they will do whatever it takes to stay on top.

Then came Laura's reseach into psychopathy that helped me understand what was going on around me. It was quite a journey, and yet I still made various excuses. My arguments were always structured in the "yes, but..." manner. I always made sure to phrase my replies in the way that took into account the people I saw around me. There were pathologicals, but also a lot of kind people. People who were afraid to get on the bus because there was a chance that it will explode. And granted, the fears were justified.

But who was responsible? Who was responsible for the pervasive perception of the Israelis that they are the nation in constant war and against the world? Who was responsible for the Israelis being in a constant state of uncertainty and anxiety, and yet accepting it and saying that this is who we are. We are the victims and we have to be strong and make sure that it won't happen again?

With time more and more an understanding grew that Israeli people were highly manipulated on a constant basis to feel this way. That the society plays an integral role in maintaining the illusion and a lie, and not only the leaders are to blame. This in when I understood that I couldn't live the same lie, and if I can't be a patriot of my country, then the most logical choice is to leave.

I think it is relevant to any country, and it is the choice one makes. I made mine, and only afterwards I was able to see more clearly what was going on. The thing is that while you are "in the thick of it", in the thick of the pathological environment (do you think that the C's remark about 50% psychopaths in Israel is just a mistake?). it's hard to see things as they are, no matter how you try.

Our environment determines our experience, and it is normal. This is how our brain is structured. We tend to excuse all kind of things while we are part of the environment. Only when we either take a step back or leave the environment we can see things from a different perspective.

The C's and Laura's materials teach us to view the situation for the "birds view". I can see that you are a FOTCM member, so you are familiar with the principles and with the concepts of Work on the self. This is a challenge, no doubt, but I invite you to see it as a Work on the self, as an excersise in growing self-awareness, to try and see why people "from the outside" point out various things to you. I also had trouble seeing it in the past, but it is worth it.

When we consider everything the C's have said and Laura's research, there is a clear understanding that intent and its clarity makes a huge impact. This is why it's important to make a stand and declare one's opposition to evil. On this level it IS "black and white", because evil has to be actively opposed. It can be confusing on the human level because we are surrounded by various people, most of them are wounded, and so they make mistakes.

But in essence evil should be clearly recognized and opposed. And that's why you get the replies you get. Because in many of your replies you didn't spell out your position. You say that you don't want to take sides because you can see both sides of the conflict. Well, I've been in your position, and I can tell you that it is a sign that you are a part of the pathological environment that muddies the waters. It isn't a judgment, just what it is. And it would be very beneficial to recognize it.

I also saw that you remarked about US. Yes, US has their own "cloak of befuddlement" thanks to HAARP, and people better take it into account. But in comparison Israel definitely takes the cake.

We all hurt for the pain of others. It's horrible what happened on the 7th of October. The pain is real, and my relatives also lost close friends. But it is also importand to maintain the bird's view and know the real enemy. Know what they do and their influence. And unfortunately their influence over Israeli minds is very great. We need to take it into account, have compassion for people around us, and yet have a firm understanding of the "beast".

You don't lose your humanity or your compassion by that. Many Israeli people are victims in this, I haven't changed my view. But unless they wake up, they are the willing participants in the charade. This is extremely unfortunate, but this is their lesson. And despite the pathological fog, some people still make the right choices. And it means that we should continue to spell out in no unclear terms who is responsible.

I hope that this post makes it a bit more clear.

 

[PopHistorian]

Regarding Greater Israel, a small anecdote. When I was there for one week about ten years ago, I noticed that the newspaper weather map showed the eastern Mediterranean Sea area with Israel shaded to differentiate from surrounding nations. However, the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights were shaded as if part of the country. Here, I just found a current example.



For those unaware, the intent is something like this.

 

[Alana]

I'd prefer it if you simply took my typed words at face value, instead of adding speculated intention to them

I did. I looked at your typed words throughout this thread and I must say that I came away with a very vague idea about where you stand.

A few times, you posted Israeli propaganda. Just a bit of examples:

Here in the news it states that the IDF analysis points to the Islamic Jihad as having bombed the hospital

Google translate will be needed because for some reason it hasn't made the english versions of those sites yet

Perhaps it takes extra time to put foreign language pages up

צה"ל: שיגור כושל של הג'יהאד פגע בבי"ח; בעזה דיווחו על 500 הרוגים

הארץ

www.haaretz.co.il

ynet - בלוגים - ערב 11 למלחמה

www.ynet.co.il

It's really hard to understand what is actually going on at the moment

Who is doing what

What is intentional and what is not

The situation is extremely intense and volatile

I hope terrorists will be stopped sooner rather than later

Yesterday a volunteer told me that Hamas shot their own dogs because they began barking at them

Also the use of civilians in Gaza as shields for terrorism is appauling

Something has to give

At least it seems as though some level headed voices have taken an interest in the situation

May they persevere

BTW, the soldiers who shot the shirtless three... those three shot were Israeli hostages who had managed to escape and were trying to be rescued. They were killed.

The story is that Hamas has created similar scenarios to try and get closer to Israeli sodiers before attacking.
I have no clue whether this is true or not.

The actual level of insanity in Gaza is unknowable at this point

I have not seen it with my own eyes,
But Hamas is ruthless

I did know one person who was murdered at the party

I wish things such as this never existed
But not everyone has empathy
This we know

By now, given the overwhelming evidence presented in this thread, on SOTT and Israeli media, you must be aware that the person you knew who was murdered at the party, was murdered by Israeli soldiers. But I didn't see you mentioning anything about the IDF's ruthlessness (evil, psychopathy) against its own people or the tens of thousands of murdered Palestinians and the "mowing" of their entire livehoods in Gaza.

What I am trying to say is that I understand where some of our forum members are coming from, and why they feel uncomfortable with your neutrality, I feel the same way (if you have a post that we overlooked, where you show exactly where you stand, please, post it here).

I also understand where you are coming from. You are immersed in propaganda. I see how much effort the Israeli government is putting into the info war on the international scale, I can only imagine how bad it is for their own citizens. And when you are in it, it is much harder to see it for what it is. That goes for all of us in different situations. There is a way out of it though, and that is by following in the steps of those who were able to escape it: Gilad Atzmon's The Wondering Who is a great book (the SOTT editors had a great interview with him back in 2014), Miko Peled's The General's Son (another SOTT interview), any book by Ilan Pappé, Norman Finkelstein, etc.

Here is an Israeli educator who has studied the curriculum of what Palestinian and Israeli children are taught in school. Whatever the Palestinians are taught, whether in Jerusalem or other parts of the West Bank or Gaza, is completely controlled, and censored by the Israeli Ministry of Education, the EU, the World Bank. She says that Palestinians can't teach hate even if they wanted to, they don't even learn about their own history in schools. The Israeli education is also heavily propagandized and controlled, but in the direction towards the dehumanization of anyone who is not Jew, and racist even against arab jews or ethiopian jews etc. She mentions that it is actually child abuse to teach the Israeli children that they are victims and everyone hates them. Very interesting interview, from the horses' mouth so to speak:

Again, I understand how hard it is for you, but am not at all "poor you". You have options and choices. But you can't be posting Israeli propaganda anymore.

 

[Mytja]

The text is "what appears to be a tactical nuclear bomb", it does somehow accurate in the sense of the destruction whether it was a misil or detonation.

Found this at Wikipedia, in this sense, her claim is not so wrong. Albeit, it mentions no one had used it in 2023. Now, I am too ignorant about weapons, it would be interesting to know what kind of weapon IOF used to that kind of destruction.
Tactical nuclear weapon

The point being the word "nuclear", like the depth charges with a nuclear warheads, meaning among other things radiation residues similar to atomic or hydrogen bomb.

And not only nobody used such a tactical nuclear bomb in 2023, but it was not used ever, at least that's known about, til the very day today, according to the wiki text. Thus in theory nobody even knows what it looks like. Which means that the Syrian Girl with her X post implied that Israel just became the first in official history to use such a weapon and did that to Palestinians.

What I'm saying is that there's no need to make things appear even worse than they actually are, because what's Israel been doing to Palestinians has already been horrendous and almost uncomprehensible to normal humans who do not share such a psychopathic-demonic inner make-up and/or landscape. What's the point in doing that? It even starts to appear like some posters are in some kind of a morbid competion who would post (first) the new unheard of atrocity Israel has committed. If it turns out to be fake news, only Israel would benefit from it in the end. OSIT.

 

[Stoneboss]

+ After a week of delayed votes, the United Nations Security Council approved a moderated proposal aimed at enhancing humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip and urgent steps "to create the conditions for a sustainable cessation of hostilities". The US and Russia abstained from voting.

Anyone know why Russia wold have abstained in this vote?

I would think that Russia abstained so that the "moderated proposal" would get approved. If Russia would have voted - and they would surely have voted in favour - then the US would have probably vetoed the vote, just to spite Russia. Russia knows this, so they played this right IMO.

 

[Possibility of Being]

Let's go back to the 3 Israeli hostages killed by IDF soldiers. Last Thursday, Haaretz published an article about the Israeli investigation into that event. It's behind a paywall, here is its available opening part:

Investigation Into Killing of Israeli Hostages by IDF Reveals a String of Errors and Flaws

The military investigation concludes that the soldiers and senior commanders operating in the area were not informed of a building found two days before the incident on which the words "Help, 3 hostages" and "SOS" were painted

An investigation into the incident in which three Israeli hostages in Gaza who escaped Hamas captivity were shot dead by Israeli soldiers uncovers a string of errors and flaws in the operation of and coordination between IDF forces in the Shujaiyeh neighborhood of Gaza City.

Spoiler

(I'll come back to it)

The myth of the all powerful IDF is just that, a myth. Perhaps it was true many years ago, in another war, but is not anymore and definitely not in this kind of urban guerilla war. Add to it the specific psychological profile of leaders and commanders, and we may not be really surprised reading the claims, supposedly based on words coming straight from the horse's mouth: "Israel has already killed one of every eight of its combat casualties through imprecise bombing.":

Analysis: Why is Israel’s military killing so many of its own? (by Aljazeera)

By Zoran Kusovac
21 Dec 2023

The perils of urban warfare, coupled with operational issues within the army, appear to be hobbling Israel’s advance.

The Israeli army’s reaction to the Hamas attacks of October 7 has so far gone through four distinct phases.

The first, which started within hours of the incursion into the territory of Israel, was mostly aerial bombardment as revenge and preparation for next steps. The second phase saw the infantry and artillery enter the northern areas of the Gaza Strip from three directions, advancing towards Gaza City to cut it off from the remainder of the Palestinian territory.

In the third phase, Israel’s army completed the encirclement at the fringes of the city, making some limited advances, probes towards the centre. In the current, fourth phase, Israeli soldiers are making slow progress towards the centre of Gaza City, engaging in proper urban fighting.

Having accomplished the blockade of the largest city in the north, Israel has repeated the same staged approach in the centre, and fighting in Khan Younis is now also in phase four. [...]

To confirm my assessments of the fighting so far — especially as I observe it from a distance — I spoke to a retired United States general with whom I spent time on the ground during intense urban fighting in Fallujah in Iraq in 2004. He shared my view of the dangers and difficulties of full-scale MOUT, the US abbreviation for “military operations in urban terrain” that Israel is pursuing.

He made two very interesting observations on casualties.

First, the learning curve for the attackers is very steep, as expected. No training can prepare soldiers for the real conditions of fighting in narrow streets, being attacked from all sides including from above, and having to worry about tunnels as well.

The general noted that “most efficient weapon in urban warfare is experience”, explaining that every ordnance is designed for a certain imagined and ideal situation that never exists on the ground. [...]

The American general’s second poignant warning regards the numbers. While attackers in modern warfare can expect between three and five wounded for each soldier killed, the ratio in MOUT is probably twice as high. Extreme dangers of urban combat do not affect only soldiers. Civilians who are caught in the areas of house-to-house fighting also get killed — some by bombs from the air, others by soldiers on the ground.

The Israeli air force has not shown much thought for sparing civilian lives when bombing Gaza; Most of the Palestinians killed, now more than 20,000, fell victim to aerial bombardment.

Israel admitted that 50 percent of the bombs used were “dumb” ones. They can only be aimed by pointing the aircraft before release and can stray 50-to-100 metres (164-328 feet) from their aiming point. For Israel, it might be acceptable to kill Palestinian civilians with imprecise bombing, but not Israeli soldiers.

But Israel has already killed one of every eight of its combat casualties through imprecise bombing. On December 12 the military command admitted that of the 105 troops killed by that point — the current figure being 137 — 20 were killed by “friendly fire” and other incidents involving Israeli soldiers killing each other. Of those 20 soldiers, 13 died from Israeli air force bombs, either through mistaken identification and location of the troops or by bombs falling far away from the aiming point.

The majority of those bomb casualties occurred in the earlier phases of the war when distances between troops and their enemy were still considerable. But in urban fighting foes are often 10 or 20 metres (33-66 feet) away, so the only acceptable way to support them is to use precisely guided smart bombs.

The current Israeli rate of advance seems to be slow. Such a modest rate of movement might be deliberate, to minimise casualties. But if days ahead demonstrate an ease in the bombardment of the centres of Gaza City and Khan Younis, that might be a first sign that the Israeli air force is running out of smart bombs.

Another incident also demonstrated the extreme perils of urban warfare: On December 15 Israeli soldiers killed three Israeli captives who managed to escape and were trying to cross over to the very unit that machine-gunned them to death. [...]

Even in the heat of battle killing of civilians, especially ones displaying intent to give themselves up may indicate several unwanted issues that mar the operational performance of any army. These include a lack of proper training to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants; blatant disregard for the lives of the purported enemy showing intent to surrender; and extreme battle stress without psychological support for war-weary soldiers.

Other possible factors include disregard by the higher command of the conditions on the battlefield and a failure to rotate out of combat the units that may have been engaged in heavy fighting, especially if the unit suffered casualties; and failure of the chain of command or the appointment of commanders of a character unfit to follow orders and take decisions.

Aside from Hamas, the Israeli military clearly has issues within its ranks to deal with. At the same time, it seems unsure how much it can count on support from their Prime Minister. There are signs that many higher officers distrust Benyamin Netanyahu and would rather have in his place someone who would show more respect for the military than for his own political goals.

They won’t admit it, but another ceasefire might be the respite that Israel’s military needs.

Spoiler: As promised

Found the whole "H" article archived, with working (archived) links to more data. It's just so weird...

Leaving out pictures, the part already quoted and embedded intext links. I wouldn't exclude the possibility that there was more to it and that some higher-ups are hiding behind the soldiers' backs.
-
[cont.] The soldier who shot the three hostages – Samer al-Talalka, Yotam Haim and Alon Shamriz – confirmed that he saw them carrying a white cloth, but did not have time to "make sense" of the picture.

Other soldiers opened fire at Haim and killed him, in violation of an explicit order which, they say, they "did not fully understand," after their commander called on the hostage to emerge from the building he was in.

• Fatally shot Israeli hostages were recorded on IDF K9 camera, but footage went unchecked [The three Israeli hostages who were fatally shot by the IDF last week were captured on a camera mounted on an IDF dog from the Oketz Unit, five days before they were killed.]
• Put the Israeli soldiers who killed the hostages on trial
• Family of Bedouin-Israeli hostage killed by IDF blame Israel and Hamas after funeral

The military investigation determined that the soldiers and senior commanders operating in the area were not aware of the possibility that hostages might be held there. They were likewise not informed of a building discovered in the area on which the words: "Help, 3 hostages" and "SOS" were painted.

The force which operated in the Shujaiyya suburb belongs to the IDF's Battalion 17. It consisted of cadets from a squad commanders' course in the IDF's Infantry School (Brigade 828), who were inducted into the army's Golani brigade six months prior.

According to knowledgeable sources, the battalion entered the Gaza Strip after the war broke out, following pressure by the brigade commander to integrate them in combat missions.

The force was first sent to lie in ambush in a hen house which was previously bombed by the IDF and full of dead chickens. The battalion was subsequently returned to Israel after soldiers suffered from vomiting and diarrhea.

In the following weeks, the battalion was stationed in an outpost near Kibbutz Nahal Oz, close to the Gaza border. According to soldiers' parents, all they did there was sit in their armored vehicles and smoke.

Another source told Haaretz that the soldiers were supposed to return to the infantry school or to a location farther from the border, out of concern that they were in danger at their current location. The soldiers insisted on remaining in place and were backed by the brigade's commanders.

Two weeks before the hostages were shot, the army's Division 36 lead an extensive operation to take over the Shujaiyeh neighborhood. The operation included forces from the Golani and Kfir brigades, as well as armored forces.

On December 13, a day before the hostages were killed, drones identified a building in the area on which the words: "Help, 3 hostages" were painted, as well as "SOS." As far as is known, the command post dealing with hostages and missing persons, headed by Maj. Gen. (res.) Nitzan Alon, was not informed of this.

Commanders in the area marked the building as dangerous, possibly serving to lure soldiers into an attack. Commanders later said they had encountered a similar situation, presenting a piece of paper with the word "help" they claim was found at a tunnel enterance.

In that case, adjacent houses were searched, but no hostages were found, leading commanders to think it had been a trap. Military sources told Haaretz that such a document was found by soldiers in Brigade 188, but this information wasn't passed on to Nitzan Alon's headquarters either. The nearby tunnel was not searched, so it was not established whether the notice had in fact been a trap.

The order of events that led to the hostages' killing:

The day after the building holding the hostages was identified, part of the Kfir brigade was moved elsewhere, as the army was preparing to complete the takeover of Shujaiyeh.

That evening, at 9:30 P.M., they were replaced by a force from Battalion 17, which was tasked with guarding a supply route. They stayed in an open area where the houses had been mostly demolished by the IDF, and those that remained intact houses were manned by soldiers.

At 9:00 on Friday morning, one of the soldiers went to the third floor of an adjacent building to observe the surrounding area. He was armed with a rifle with telescopic sights, meant to allow precise identification before firing. Other soldiers were staying in the building's second floor.

At 9:46, the soldier identified three figures he considered suspicious, emerging from a house 500 meters away. Between them was another building, making it difficult to target the soldiers.

The soldier fired three rapid shots, killing al-Talalka and Shamriz and wounding Yotam Haim. He later testified that 'for a split second' he noticed that the three were not wearing shirts and were waving a white cloth, but he didn't understand that they were trying to give themselves up to the IDF.

Haim fell to the ground but managed to get up and enter another building, 20 meters from where the soldiers were, crying "help!" Meanwhile, the battalion commander ordered, by shouting and over the radio, for his soldiers to desist from firing.

The commander, who saw the two dead men, called on Haim to come out of the building. He again told the soldiers not to shoot the wounded man or approach him, in case it was an attempt to lure soldiers.

At 9:49, two soldiers noticed Haim moving and opened fire, in spite of their commander's order. The hostage was killed instantly. The investigation determined that the order to hold fire was heard clearly, but the soldiers claimed that they hadn't understood the order, thinking it was a temporary order, meant to enable them to listen and ensure there was no enemy fire in the area.

When the shooting stopped, Engineer Corps soldiers were summoned to ensure that the bodies were not booby-trapped. The battalion commander suspected that Haim was Israeli when he saw the body, and the three bodies were sent for examination, where their identities were determined.

An investigation by the force's brigade commander showed that information collected by Alon's headquarters about hostages in the area was unknown to the soldiers or to senior divisional commanders. One lesson from the incident is that such information must henceforth reach every single soldier.

It was further argued that soldiers were not sure about the rules of engagement, especially with regard to unarmed men, even though the IDF is operating in a densely populated area, calling on Hamas fighters to surrender.

Another lesson is that "more alertness to unarmed civilians is required, especially when carrying white flags or wearing partial clothing." One source told Haaretz that this was a puzzling conclusion, since hundreds of civilians and Hamas fighters had surrendered in the preceding days.

"It's unclear how the investigation says that there were no similar cases of surrender or that the forces did not know how to handle such cases," said the source.

A further conclusion is that "commanders at all levels should be aware that other hostages may free themselves and search for a way to link up with our forces." This too is problematic.

Ron Krivoi, who was held by Hamas, said after his release that he had temporarily escaped, and another hostage may also have escaped for a short while, so that IDF soldiers should have already been prepared for such an event.

 

[seek10]

For those of us who is wondering what is next, all is in place from "servants" of "God's Chosen people" paid by you and me.

 

[Ðekel]

I did. I looked at your typed words throughout this thread and I must say that I came away with a very vague idea about where you stand.

A few times, you posted Israeli propaganda. Just a bit of examples:







By now, given the overwhelming evidence presented in this thread, on SOTT and Israeli media, you must be aware that the person you knew who was murdered at the party, was murdered by Israeli soldiers. But I didn't see you mentioning anything about the IDF's ruthlessness (evil, psychopathy) against its own people or the tens of thousands of murdered Palestinians and the "mowing" of their entire livehoods in Gaza.

What I am trying to say is that I understand where some of our forum members are coming from, and why they feel uncomfortable with your neutrality, I feel the same way (if you have a post that we overlooked, where you show exactly where you stand, please, post it here).

I also understand where you are coming from. You are immersed in propaganda. I see how much effort the Israeli government is putting into the info war on the international scale, I can only imagine how bad it is for their own citizens. And when you are in it, it is much harder to see it for what it is. That goes for all of us in different situations. There is a way out of it though, and that is by following in the steps of those who were able to escape it: Gilad Atzmon's The Wondering Who is a great book (the SOTT editors had a great interview with him back in 2014), Miko Peled's The General's Son (another SOTT interview), any book by Ilan Pappé, Norman Finkelstein, etc.

Here is an Israeli educator who has studied the curriculum of what Palestinian and Israeli children are taught in school. Whatever the Palestinians are taught, whether in Jerusalem or other parts of the West Bank or Gaza, is completely controlled, and censored by the Israeli Ministry of Education, the EU, the World Bank. She says that Palestinians can't teach hate even if they wanted to, they don't even learn about their own history in schools. The Israeli education is also heavily propagandized and controlled, but in the direction towards the dehumanization of anyone who is not Jew, and racist even against arab jews or ethiopian jews etc. She mentions that it is actually child abuse to teach the Israeli children that they are victims and everyone hates them. Very interesting interview, from the horses' mouth so to speak:

Again, I understand how hard it is for you, but am not at all "poor you". You have options and choices. But you can't be posting Israeli propaganda anymore.

I'm not posting Israeli propaganda.
I actually didn't link anything

The reason I wrote what was claimed, and that is: That friendly fire was an accident, is becauae of this:

If in addition to all the other atrocities underway against Gazans, the IDF is also shooting its own hostages, then that is pertinent to the thread.

I wrote what was claimed, and then that I do not know whether this particular case had been an accident or not.

Obvjously I don't put it past them.

It was never about "poor me", because there is no "poor me".
Not in my mind at least

 

[Ðekel]

I would like to share my thoughts on what you wrote and the feedback you got.

I lived in Israel for 20 years and have a deep understanding of an Israeli society and mentality. More so, even if I haven't visited Israel for the past 11 years, I still have ties to it and an appreciation of an Israeli or Jewish culture in general, not only because I still have relatives living there, but also because it became a part of me after living there for such a long time. Therefore I can recognize the reluctance to see what is happening now in supposedly "black and white" terms.

I wasn't that much interested in politics or what goes on in the world when I was younger, and then in the later years I also was leaning more to the "left", even if I didn't dare to express this openion openly (It wasn't as accepted back then as it is now). I did follow the testimonies by "Breaking the Silence" guys, and also went on one of the tours to Hebron that they organized.

It's also important to mention that I didn't feel quite at home either. It wasn't my choice to immigrate to Israel, and I never got used to the climate, but I did adapt and intergrated into the society, also because I immigrated in the young age. And I also got a chance to experience the religious aspect by studying in Beit Rivka (Chabad boarding school). And this was objectively the most positive period of my young life.

Anyways, I started learning and reading all kind of sources. It happened after 9/11. All kind of things that pointed toward Israel's role in the conflict. That it had an interest in instigating the conflict and leading it to the Palestinian "final solution".

I also read ex Mossad agent Ostrovsky's "By way of deception", which opened my eyes to even deeper machinations that were done by an Israeli side. There are also additional materials, especially Jewish religious ones that pointed toward the innate "specialness" of the nation and that they will do whatever it takes to stay on top.

Then came Laura's reseach into psychopathy that helped me understand what was going on around me. It was quite a journey, and yet I still made various excuses. My arguments were always structured in the "yes, but..." manner. I always made sure to phrase my replies in the way that took into account the people I saw around me. There were pathologicals, but also a lot of kind people. People who were afraid to get on the bus because there was a chance that it will explode. And granted, the fears were justified.

But who was responsible? Who was responsible for the pervasive perception of the Israelis that they are the nation in constant war and against the world? Who was responsible for the Israelis being in a constant state of uncertainty and anxiety, and yet accepting it and saying that this is who we are. We are the victims and we have to be strong and make sure that it won't happen again?

With time more and more an understanding grew that Israeli people were highly manipulated on a constant basis to feel this way. That the society plays an integral role in maintaining the illusion and a lie, and not only the leaders are to blame. This in when I understood that I couldn't live the same lie, and if I can't be a patriot of my country, then the most logical choice is to leave.

I think it is relevant to any country, and it is the choice one makes. I made mine, and only afterwards I was able to see more clearly what was going on. The thing is that while you are "in the thick of it", in the thick of the pathological environment (do you think that the C's remark about 50% psychopaths in Israel is just a mistake?). it's hard to see things as they are, no matter how you try.

Our environment determines our experience, and it is normal. This is how our brain is structured. We tend to excuse all kind of things while we are part of the environment. Only when we either take a step back or leave the environment we can see things from a different perspective.

The C's and Laura's materials teach us to view the situation for the "birds view". I can see that you are a FOTCM member, so you are familiar with the principles and with the concepts of Work on the self. This is a challenge, no doubt, but I invite you to see it as a Work on the self, as an excersise in growing self-awareness, to try and see why people "from the outside" point out various things to you. I also had trouble seeing it in the past, but it is worth it.

When we consider everything the C's have said and Laura's research, there is a clear understanding that intent and its clarity makes a huge impact. This is why it's important to make a stand and declare one's opposition to evil. On this level it IS "black and white", because evil has to be actively opposed. It can be confusing on the human level because we are surrounded by various people, most of them are wounded, and so they make mistakes.

But in essence evil should be clearly recognized and opposed. And that's why you get the replies you get. Because in many of your replies you didn't spell out your position. You say that you don't want to take sides because you can see both sides of the conflict. Well, I've been in your position, and I can tell you that it is a sign that you are a part of the pathological environment that muddies the waters. It isn't a judgment, just what it is. And it would be very beneficial to recognize it.

I also saw that you remarked about US. Yes, US has their own "cloak of befuddlement" thanks to HAARP, and people better take it into account. But in comparison Israel definitely takes the cake.

We all hurt for the pain of others. It's horrible what happened on the 7th of October. The pain is real, and my relatives also lost close friends. But it is also importand to maintain the bird's view and know the real enemy. Know what they do and their influence. And unfortunately their influence over Israeli minds is very great. We need to take it into account, have compassion for people around us, and yet have a firm understanding of the "beast".

You don't lose your humanity or your compassion by that. Many Israeli people are victims in this, I haven't changed my view. But unless they wake up, they are the willing participants in the charade. This is extremely unfortunate, but this is their lesson. And despite the pathological fog, some people still make the right choices. And it means that we should continue to spell out in no unclear terms who is responsible.

I hope that this post makes it a bit more clear.

Than you Keit

I have not said that I do not want to take sides. Only that I am fed up with the whole thing, and "my" government in particular, which I never chose and have always rallied against

 

[aragorn]

I'm not posting Israeli propaganda.
I actually didn't link anything

It's not about whether or not you're providing links but rahter that you're providing the talking points of the Zionist propaganda machinery without much critical analysis. As POB alluded to earlier, this is a research forum in which the purpose is not to copy-paste tweets or talking points without any analysis or coupling to the body of information gathered here (or the respective thread one is posting to). Those things can be done elsewhere. Or, that's at least how I see it.

 

[miguel angel]

I can not read the article because in Spain we have no acces to RT.

You can use this link to bypass the orwellian censorship: RT - Breaking News, Russia News, World News and Video