Thank you. I think another member some time ago gave the link but... I forgot. Now the link is on my favorites.
Israel-Palestine War: Hamas Breaks Out of Gaza, Israel Responds With Genocide
- Thread starter Puma
- Start date
SOTTREADER
The Living Force
This reminds me of the early days of COVID in 2020 before the jabs were released when we were living in heavily propaganda within our own countries. I remember talking to some about how there was a conspiracy of fear. Discussing this with people who took a neutral position was interesting. Some of the arguments they gave were
Funny thing though, when the jabs came out in December 2020, people's true colours showed by their choice especially in my country where mandates didn't exist (only for care workers).
I was surprised to find out how neutrality, when push came to shove generally meant the so-called "neutral" "you can't know what's happening" person would take the most dominant position - the position endorsed by power.
I'm just talking from my position of having experienced heavy propaganda in my country and seeing how this affected people. Truth be told, despite what someone said, there is no such thing as neutrality in such an environment. There's either stating your position, one way or the other, or camouflaging it so that others can't see it (for whatever reason i.e. either for your own safety or perhaps even to "shepherd" people towards a different position).
- You can't know that, you aren't in government
- It's too complicated, just ignore it
- The government is doing its best in a bad situation
Funny thing though, when the jabs came out in December 2020, people's true colours showed by their choice especially in my country where mandates didn't exist (only for care workers).
I was surprised to find out how neutrality, when push came to shove generally meant the so-called "neutral" "you can't know what's happening" person would take the most dominant position - the position endorsed by power.
I'm just talking from my position of having experienced heavy propaganda in my country and seeing how this affected people. Truth be told, despite what someone said, there is no such thing as neutrality in such an environment. There's either stating your position, one way or the other, or camouflaging it so that others can't see it (for whatever reason i.e. either for your own safety or perhaps even to "shepherd" people towards a different position).
I don't even think the fear was ever really justified. To a large extent, it was always a psyop: chances were very low indeed that you get killed in a terrorist attack; but the Israelis invented their own word for it ("Pigua"), which already made it a huge deal in people's heads, and whenever something happened, they unleashed such a media storm of emotional manipulation that even every child was shell-shocked and terrified of the Evil Palestinian Suicide Bomber With His Virgins in Heaven (TM). A bit like they did in the West with the terror scare after 9/11, only 100 times worse... Same goes for the so-called "rocket attacks". As you said:
SOTTREADER
The Living Force
To see how crazy and absurd neutrality can get in highly pathological situations - imagine being neutral in nazi Germany. What does this mean in practice? It means you never actually see the end road of the Nazis, you don't see the "horror" of the situation and where it's leading to. One might argue against this but my counter argument would be, how can you claim to see the end road and remain neutral? If you see it, either you oppose it or you accept it...
Going back to nazi Germany, at the end, when you hear about all the Jews being exterminated in concentration camps you'll probably throw your hands up and probably look for reasons - surely not all Jews, I hear it's just the criminals... or perhaps, they've just been "temporarily" relocated... anything to avoid facing the situation.
In the end, in such a situation, it becomes obvious to those around you what your so-called neutrality actually means.
Don't shoot the messenger @BHelmet
Going back to nazi Germany, at the end, when you hear about all the Jews being exterminated in concentration camps you'll probably throw your hands up and probably look for reasons - surely not all Jews, I hear it's just the criminals... or perhaps, they've just been "temporarily" relocated... anything to avoid facing the situation.
In the end, in such a situation, it becomes obvious to those around you what your so-called neutrality actually means.
Don't shoot the messenger @BHelmet
I don't think one can remain neutral in such cases, especially if one is affected directly or indirectly, do you ?To see how crazy and absurd neutrality can get in highly pathological situations - imagine being neutral in nazi Germany. What does this mean in practice? It means you never actually see the end road of the Nazis, you don't see the "horror" of the situation and where it's leading to. One might argue against this but my counter argument would be, how can you claim to see the end road and remain neutral? If you see it, either you oppose it or you accept it...
Going back to nazi Germany, at the end, when you hear about all the Jews being exterminated in concentration camps you'll probably throw your hands up and probably look for reasons - surely not all Jews, I hear it's just the criminals... or perhaps, they've just been "temporarily" relocated... anything to avoid facing the situation.
In the end, in such a situation, it becomes obvious to those around you what your so-called neutrality actually means.
Don't shoot the messenger @BHelmet
But also, the fact that we cannot actually stop the murder and bloodshed sort of takes the bite out of taking a stand against it. A la- I can go to rallies against the Gaza masacre, but it does nothing to stop it, or other such aggressions.
So are we just on Earth to be witnesses to endless madness ?
SOTTREADER
The Living Force
I completely agree. How can one remain neutral? It's impossible given we are connected to the situation through our shared humanity. We are forced to either accept it as okay or not okay.
From my point of view, given the direction of travel in this world, I don't think we have power to stop such things from an individual perspective or even as part of collective rallies. The PTB and their 4D STS backers are too strong and we are too ignorant - we the humans who aren't in favour of our own demise.
A "neutral" friend of mine during the times of COVID propaganda asked me whether my distrust of the propaganda meant I'd be out rallying against the government as a sort of way of proving my position. My answer was no - I don't need to be out in rallies to prove I don't trust the propaganda. The best I could do, where appropriate, is point out the positions of absurdity and the areas where what they are saying should make you take pause. Also I couldn't help but point out the actors involved were highly suspect individuals. I certainly didn't take a crusader position and I don't feel I needed to so as to not go against my conscience. In this forum though, I could be open and frank - no need to play games as it were.
My honest "feedback" to you @Ðekel is that it's true what people are saying in terms of how your posts are perceived. I think the way you write here is how you should operate in the environment you are in as it gives you "cover" from attracting the wrong sort of attention but in this forum, it only acts to make you appear like you are caught up in the propaganda. Given the forum is all about aligning with objective reality, the form of communication should be straight forward and "to the point" with regards the situation under discussion especially if the situation is one that's not a complicated one (once the propaganda is stripped back).
I don't know. I think we can make small differences by resisting the propaganda from infesting us as individuals. By doing so, we can perhaps hold a certain frequency and allow it to take hold in the world.
Being a witness implies passivity and I don't think the situation we are in actually allows us to be passive given we are actual participants in the play going on around us due to our shared humanity.
I take everything in the "news" to either be a lie, manipulation, or fear mongering. I do at times wonder what the exact nature of manipulation in a given case is.
I think this is true for most "news" around the world about anything important, and doubly for the news here.
It seems to me that thousands of people's efforts to oppose the tyrrany and genocide here has done, and is doing, absolutely nothing. On a similar note, hundreds of thousands of us rallied weekly for months against bibi- What has this done ? Other than triggerring the events of the past months ?
And so, if we cannot affect change that matters (prefferably also long lasting) then what is left but remaining witnesses ?
I can see how my posts might appear vague to some people. But I know what I stand for and I know that is the same as what the FOTCM does as well.
I cannot and will not defend a position that I never have taken.
Maybe that's because I take the obvious for granted- I don't believe anyone on the forum could be FOR genocide.
And I don't believe anyone here falls for the usual, corrupt lies either. Why should anyone have to state that they are against genocide ? Is it not obvious that we all here are ?
Fortunately and unfortunately, we know what the world is like currently. It's just beyond depressing.
SOTTREADER
The Living Force
Yeah, all agreed. Worth remembering though that we each have something unique to us that means we are in 3D, in the environment we live in, with the situation we were born into or find ourselves in.
So I trust you are genuine in your quest to be the best version of who you can be given your current situation, whatever that may be.
I think if there's any "lesson" here, it's perhaps in how you communicate about this situation in specific within this forum. Perhaps that in of itself may prove to be worthwhile in other ways
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Not true, good propaganda is wrapped around the truth. It is hard work but every “truth seeking” individual is responsible for deciphering the truth from lies.
Right and after protesting they go back to their comfortable lives giving energy back to the very systems that requires human sacrifice.
Hum, that’s interesting way of putting it. kind of reminds me of the wife that tells her husband, “you don’t say I love you to me.” To which the husband replies, “well I work, I put food on the table, a roof over your head, why do I need to tell you? I show you every day by my actions”.
Yes, I can see the husband’s point of view, but you know what, sometimes it is necessary to tell your wife you love her. As we are learning here on the forum, sometimes we can choose to do certain actions as an external consideration to others.
FWIW
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'No ceasefire in "private" conversation between Biden and Netanyahu, because they do not give a shit for the civilian casualties in Gaza.'
www.aljazeera.com
23 Dec 2023
www.aa.com.tr
By Ikram Kouachi - 24.12.2023 - Update : 24.12.2023
www.presstv.ir
24 December 2023
‘Did not ask for ceasefire’ in Gaza: Biden after phone call with Netanyahu
White House says the two leaders discussed Israel’s military campaign in Gaza, including its ‘objectives and phasing’.
Gaza’s death toll climbs to 20,424 amid Israeli attacks
Health Ministry says 54,036 Palestinians injured in Israeli attacks since Oct. 7 - Anadolu Ajansı
www.aa.com.tr
Hamas calls Biden a ‘partner in crime’ to Netanyahu’s massacre of Palestinians
US President Joe Biden is a partner in crime to Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s massacre of the Palestinian people in the Gaza Strip, says a top Hamas official.
www.presstv.ir
Yesterday I listened to an interview in French with the former director of doctors without borders . He said something that touched me deeply, and touches him enormously. He spoke of the silence and indifference in the face of a part of humanity that is about to disappear. It's inconceivable. And he also said that never before had doctors without borders seen so many dead and wounded children. And that Gaza was a mass grave of dead children. A mass grave.
The interview is in French, but I put it here in case you wanted to listen to it.
fr.sott.net
The interview is in French, but I put it here in case you wanted to listen to it.
Rony Brauman : "On n'a jamais vu autant d'enfants morts et blessés, jamais" -- Sott.net
Le constat de Rony Brauman, l'ancien président de MSF, qui a gardé sur Israël un regard lucide. « Les bombardements sont maintenant généralisés, je ne reviendrai pas sur le fait que les gens qui sont au sud sont allés au sud parce qu'on disait...
fr.sott.net
I was wondering if you are quoting someone comments? Who, by the way? It is important because of the context.
hlat, Dekel is NOT "spreading propaganda" and these remarks were not called for.
Sorry my bad. I was quoting Ðekel.
I can no longer edit the post so maybe a mod can fix my quotes for clarity.
nature
Dagobah Resident
So sad to see this in Palestine, Jesus Christ's date and place of birth - 25 december 2023, Palestine.
Picture from the tv serie by Adrian McDowall, 2019
There have been so many genocides on this world, and this one is the summum. Universe won't let this be unpunished.
May these slaughtered people and children rest now in peace and their suffering wake the world up.