Reality Split

Hi MJ,
your perception of the nature and workings of this list seems to be distorted. From experience, slamming, flameing or skewering is not tolerated by anyone on this list. The reaction that you received from members of the group was due ONLY to your insistence on discussing the merits of information that had been concluded to be more disinfo than anything else. Theories about the nature of 3D reality are the topic of discussion on the list, with a view to coming to a conclusion about them. Once a conclusion has been reached, unless some new info comes to light, they are not later dragged up again to be re-dissected.

The fact that you attended a lecture by Anna Hayes' husband is, I suspect, welcomed by other list members, in fact this type of information gathering is what is actively promoted here. The only qualification to that would be that the potential value to be obtained from attending such a lecture would depend on the mindset with which you approach the material offered by the speaker. If for example you go with the sole intention of having your existing beliefs bolstered, then the potential for gleaning new knowledge or a deeper understanding would be limited. Naturally, since the objective of the discussions on the list is to get to the bottom of things, an objective attitude in such a case is always preferred. Which it seems that you maintained when you were there. Glad to have your input.

From SM:

I read MJ's post and thought, "I've just been called a first grader."

Am I offended? No, but I don't find it very appealing. I don't think we are dealing with "breaking rules" here. It is more about respect for the group's aim.

Now, before I read G and participated in this group I did not quite understand what an aim meant. As a matter of fact, I am still thinking about what it means, and it is a rather serious thing. It is not a goal, that one may miss, and just brush it off, and think better luck next time.

Although one will stumble in pursuit of that aim, but the aim remains and one deliberately sets out to realign oneself to continue that pursuit. As a group member I believe it is my responsibility to support the group's aim to the best of my ability. That is what I have chosen to do, and it fits in with my own aim.

When I first joined, I still didn't quite get it, but after a bit of observation and participation it did sink in, (or so I think) and there where many here who helped in the process.

After spending time with the group I have seen several who never bothered or did not want to contribute to an already established aim and support that aim. In fact, they seem more interested in their own agenda with little respect for those who are already here and what had already been built. These people always seem to follow the same pattern and even repeat some of the same terms and phrases. They did not like the terms and phrases we have defined and agreed upon, which we use as a platform that we continue to refine and expand.

I certaintly can understand when someone is new, and they don't quite understand what it is we are trying to do, and I have witnessed almost infinite patience with others here. But sometimes someone comes along who is not interested in this process, and thinking with a hammer.

From CJ:

I have been reading these threads and trying to understand what happened. Most of it went right over my head except for the understanding that there was something in MJ's post that triggered it. I finally began to get it this morning and SM's post made it all gel. Geez, I am really slow. So though it has been a diversion it has certainly been a lesson for me to see it unfold. Thank you.

From: JQ:

CJ: wrote: It seems to me that there are major transitions trying to unfold in many of us here and suddenly there is this diversion of energies. I am not in the camp that it is purposeful on any one's part but perhaps some of us have been used to divert energy from the dynamic that was taking place with Mouravieff's material. I do not doubt that there is also a lesson in all of it for me and others but it is almost making me mad to see the excitement I had with this material become so diluted with what seems to me to be obvious matrix tinkering. But then I am new at identifying these things and I may have it all wrong.

Laura wrote: No CJ, you are "seeing."

JQ here: Definitely, it has happened before and will again.

We could think of such people as sleepers; they join the list, post an introductory post which sounds just great and then they lurk for a while. Then, at the appointed time, when "the manipulators" decide that a bit of discord needs to be sown on the list, they "plug them in" so to speak, and disruption is the result.

The real killer in it all is that the sleeper is not even aware that it is happening and defends their actions as if they were their own.

Now, just in case anyone thinks I'm up on a high horse here, I realise that this is a process that we are all victims of as denziens of 3D. We all constantly defend viewpoints and opinions that we believe to be our own when in reality they were "forced" upon us. However the difference is that, most people are just passively running the programmes of the predators mind, in contrast, those that are prompted to force this view on others, either on list or in any public forum, have been "switched on", which might belie a weaker resistance to STS or even a leaning towards that orientation, and are true "vectors of attack" serving the predators agenda.

At this point, exactly what JQ described, happened:

From Sue Lu:

Laura wrote: None of this was an attack on MJ directly or indirectly. However, at this point, in the interests of learning - and I do not for a moment think that MJ is interested in my views here, so this is not for her. Her cup is already full. <SNIP>

Sue Lu here:

Heh heh... HI! From one of the lurkers who rarely posts, but is a faithful member nonetheless! :-)

There is so much here that starting is a bit difficult (one of the troubles with remaining silent so often, I suppose), but Laura you asked for feedback, and so I'm offering some. Take or leave as you see fit, naturally.

While I may agree with you, personally, that MJ likely has a full cup and has difficulty finding interest in anything you have to say due to that status, this statement by you is what I call a "conduit". Much as the C's use the term, in fact.

"Know conduits of same" is one of the C's instructions when talking of attacks, and this statement of yours, Laura, I see as an opener - a conduit of attack. A way in... to you.

Notice that you put it there, and I suspect it was done so in defense because "you are right to state your claim on what you know and not take any nonsense", but that would have to be your call. Again imo, THIS is how we "create our own reality" without realizing it.

[Moderator: this suspicion is incorrect, and its incorrecteness reflects in the rest of the post. It was not a "defense" step. It was a "duty" of the list moderator. It was from "responsibility." We are here, Ark and Laura, and we have responsibility to those who come to us. Yes, we have responsibility to "teach". Some people do not like it, they think they have the "right" to use this list according to their likes. Well, this is not the case. Also we intervene in rather rare cases, nevertheless, once in a while, we do it. And it is not in "defense". It is from "responsibility". There are many open discussion lists where there is no "goal." This is list is different. There is a goal: to learn and to progress. We, Laura and I, are learning too, and thanks for that to all list members. But when we see that the process of learning is being disrupted - we take the minimal necessary steps to fix it. In doing this we can make a mistake - that's for sure. But you missed this persepective altogether.]

Again, while what you say of her may be true, the reality of its truth is for her decide, not you. You cannot be an authority on her and expect no one or thing in the universe to attempt to be your authority in return - you've invited an attack here.

[Moderator: Again, this is not about being authority. This is about being responsible for this list and for the way energies on this list are being diverted. Some people are coming here to work and to learn and to contribute and to progress. But when someone comes here with a "full cup", and it is for list owners to decide whether this is the case or not, then some kind of action is needed - out of responsibility for other members who are here to work."]

You positioned yourself as "the one in the know" about HER stuff - that is an energy suck and give. Whatever she has presented, that has sparked that comment from you, somehow TOOK energy from you, and you're staking your claim on your energies in response (defending against the unseen attack)... in an imbalanced manner, imo.

You invite others to become your authority when you clamp the lid on the story of their issues and choose to think of yourself as an authority on them. In my opinion, and not meant in any way as an attack.

I can say of another that it SEEMS they are doing this or that, and it SEEMS that they have this or that issue... but these perceptions are for MY edification, actually, and I can pretty much drop "them" once I realize this. THEY are not my problem. They have appeared, perfectly timed, to show me MY issue - by mirroring it for me in such a way as to push my button.

(And if no button is pushed, evidenced by no need to make claims on who they are as though I'm their authority, or react with any other "pushing" response... then I am not being mirrored by them in any way and all is well - water off a duck.)

If we can wake up to the flow in us that causes us to strike out at "other" in that moment, and redirect it - again in that moment - to Self, an opportunity to clear another conduit of attack is suddenly presented to us.

The truth of the issue's existence in us lies in what we FELT whether we voiced it or not, actually. If I have an INTERNAL response (judgement being one of the most common) to what someone else says, I have something to learn in the situation. If I choose to think that what I'm learning is to set boundaries and push that person away for any reason, I've missed the lesson.

They will fall away without a struggle when I've truly cleared what they're mirroring for me. "The illusion exists for us for as long as we need it to" (paraphrase of the C's), not the other way around. It matters not at all what another wants with us, if we have no linchpin in us that keeps them clinging to us, they will fall away and we will move on without hinderance. That's how this realm works. But we really need to know ourselves in order to make use of this powerful truth of this density.

That unseen energy that we didn't want to identify as a personal problem, preferring instead to be right about "them" and point fingers... was our clue that this was all about "me, me, me". If we DO choose to lash out (defined as any effort on our part to control who they are, including labels of judgement), we've invited that self- lesson into our experience at a slightly more painful degree (it just gained momentum, or energy, through our denial).

And it will likely occur in manifest form this time, meaning in the guise of an interaction with this realm that has more "weight" and therefore can produce more pain, instead of just in energetic form within ourselves.

We HAD the opportunity to clear it before it made serious waves in our lives, but we didn't see it, missed it, or chose to deny it. So now it gains force and "strikes us" in a more painful way. The longer an issue goes unnoticed, with opportunity after opportunity to face it occuring in our daily lives, the more painful our circumstances will get in this particular regard.

All offered in my opinion, from my particular point of view, which I realize is slightly different than most on this list and why I rarely post. It is offered in love and with gratitude for all you've provided me over the last couple years, Laura. If you find nothing of value in it, so be it. On the other hand, if you or others find cause to take me to task for it or respond with that ice bucket, I'm game, btw :-) Have at it! LOL! ~Sue Lu

From Sue Lu:

CJ wrote: It seems to me that there are major transitions trying to unfold in many of us here and suddenly there is this diversion of energies. I am not in the camp that it is purposeful on any one's part but perhaps some of us have been used to divert energy from the dynamic that was taking place with Mouravieff's material. I do not doubt that there is also a lesson in all of it for me and others but it is almost making me mad to see the excitement I had with this material become so diluted with what seems to me to be obvious matrix tinkering. But then I am new at identifying these things and I may have it all wrong.

Hiya CJ, Sue Lu here...

Boy, two posts in one day, whodathunk?

In my view, energies were set in motion to which the matrix has responded, and so this is not "diversion" from an outside force so much as a necessary meandering likely DUE to the Mouravieff material, as it mixes with the total sum of energies in this group.

In my view we are the creators of our experiences, though often unconsciously... as opposed to being victims of something outside our creative abilities. This is not in line with many thinkers and writers, I realize, but I have yet to see a single situation of pain or strife occur that did not have it's "starter fluid" in the individual(s) to which the event occurred.

Many get offended at this view, calling it "blaming the victim", but my point is that there are no victims. There are only hidden energies in the form of emotions that limit and false beliefs from which we create our context for lessons. Being in this density where the heavier frequencies dominate, our hidden stuff has more power to create, at this level.

I'll add here that this is coming from someone who has been raped, beaten to within inches of her life, mugged at knifepoint, verbally, mentally, emotionally, sexually and physically abused in this lifetime - I mention all that to press the point that I DO know what it's like living on this orb and have experienced many "victimizing" situations. I don't say any of this casually or without experience.

The healing and real light came for me when I recognized that these events were FOR MY DESTINY and self-created in some tangible ways, not forced upon me by some unknown or even known assailant. The work was for me to learn to see the unseen in myself, and how it acted as the creating force in my life events.

This realm is designed to "solidify" our heaviest energies, in fact (the matrix, once again). So until we really know ourselves and clear our hidden factors, our experiences are created by ourselves without our conscious understanding, through these hidden conduits. We literally "call to ourselves" the events that explicate what's lying hidden within us.

Back to what may be happening here. In my experience, whenever a new concept is introduced to functioning, thinking and intent-on-growth individuals, it acts as a catalyst. So that a "real time opportunity", to put into practice the very concept just introduced, is suddenly encountered.

Our detractors in self are mostly emotion-based, feeding limited thinking, imo. When a "higher mind" concept comes our way, the first thing it will do is jostle and break loose some of the denser energies in our energetic selves, often emotional in nature. We experience it as discomfort, conflict in our interactions, physical accidents and pain. Some with enough awareness will experience it as evidence of fear, however mild or strong, and with that recognition, get to work resolving it to the light of understanding and release.

Thinking it's something "else" that's "outside us", a predatory force of some kind NOT of our making, leaves us with little to do but defend. Not very empowering, nor accurate, in my view.

Granted there may well BE an individual or group (like 4D STS, for instance) who siezes the opportunity to jump in and make our life hell... but my point is that we invited them through our hidden parts. The existence of the discord, static or conflict is an opportunity for learning. When looked at that way, not pushed away as annoying, offensive or unwanted, we open ourselves to new creative solutions that can move us further along on the path.

All in my opinion, naturally, with no intent to force it on anyone. Just some stuff to consider.

From Sue Lu:

Laura wrote: None of this was an attack on MJ directly or indirectly. However, at this point, in the interests of learning - and I do not for a moment think that MJ is interested in my views here, so this is not for her. Her cup is already full.

<SNIP> Sue Lu here: Heh heh... HI! From one of the lurkers who rarely posts, but is a faithful member nonetheless! :-) <snip>

[Moderator: Again, this is not about being authority. This is about being responsible for this list and for the way energies on this list are being diverted. Some people are coming here to work and to learn and to contribute and to progress. But when someone comes here with a "full cup", and it is for list owners to decide whether this is the case or not, then some kind of action is needed - out of responsibility for other members who are here to work."] <SNIP>

My apologies. Apparently I've overstepped my bounds in this post and that wasn't my intention, but it appears it was the result.

[Moderator: Not really. You just did not take into account certain parameters that group "organizers" must have take into account - if they are serious about the project. And we ARE serious.]

In re-reading my post, I can see that there are many other better ways to word what I was trying to say, and it appears my choice of words acted as red flags.

[Moderator: Again, you are still missing the point, it was not your choice of words. It was lack of knowledge and lack of experience. You have your knowledge and your experience, so what you said could pretty well apply to yourself. But you did not have knowledge and experience that WE have, and you have not the "duty" of creating, organizing and taking care of this particular group.]

My perceptions are my own, I admit freely, but are not meant as judgements of any kind. Nor do I personally see them so oppositionally, as it seems the moderator has. There is a meeting point, in my sense of things, but I have failed to reveal it, unfortunately.

[Moderator: I am not seeing it oppositionally. I am seeng it as an example of reasoning based on insufficient data (though these data were available to you), yet they were not evident, and that is due to a different role, and also, partly, due to the fact that, as you wrote, you are mostly a "lurker", which means that your interests are mostly somehere else.]

The fault is entirely my own, due to my inability to unify two functioning, effective applications of the C's material harmoniously.

The process I use in my own life to free myself of my own blindspots and resulting pain (derived through various sources but crystalized through the C's material and Laura's incredible body of work) have worked well for me. I merely shared the hard line I take with myself, using Laura's statement as the example.

Again, my apologies. I did say take or leave as you see fit, and I meant that. Sincerely, Sue Lu

From FJ:

Sue Lu,

I have a little arbirary rule or attitude that I constantly apply: 90% of what happens to me is contributed by my hidden stuff. The other 10%----is soemthing unfathomable.

Your post was good for the 90%; but it may not apply that easily to the 10%.

From FJ: (In response to the post on Lying)

Given this elaboration, I agree. On a personal level (my hot button), attack CAN have the sense of righteuous indignation, which I consider an type "A" influence. Of course, "NO" has to be backed by one's full beingness. And NO works for the 90% of type A we do to ourselves and the 10% type "A" that is "unfathomable".

If we have the attitude of attack toward the 90% of "A" that is our own creation, we may generate an atmosphere of internal aggression to ourselves, which is not, in my experience, very healthy. This harks back to the issue of working and waiting vs. pushing.

In one of the M. passages there was the allusion to the fact that pushing too hard when not ready can bring on madness.

Anyway, I sense we are having a word battle here while the intent of our words are in harmony.

Or maybe not.

From Sue Lu:

Hiya FJ,

Thanks for your response. I remain in learning mode, as always, yet it's been my experience, and confirmed through recapitulation of these past 40 years, that 100% of what happens to me is sourced within me. I am the perfect center, the micro of the macro. Any other view dissipates the power center and creates separation, dissention and illusion.

"Nothing exists without consciousness to perceive it" is, to my mind, a precise way of saying that everything I perceive, I perceive because I perceive it... if it's not in me, I won't see it "out there". And from that recognition I turn inward to see just why it is that I see/experience the things I do. Sure enough, the source is in me.

The illusory realm I chose to focus my consciousness within for this duration is merely that: an illusion populated with the actors I chose to play the roles I needed for my lessons. Lessons I chose to experience while here. I'm the script writer, the producer, the director and really, the only actor... projecting parts of me into other forms outside of me when I cannot clearly see the force of this or that lying hidden within me.

It may well be that I have a blind spot here, and I'm working diligently to discover it through meditation as well as more recapitualting, using these last few days of my present as a launching pad. :-)

It is my understanding, at this point, that all that exists in form is illusory, for the purposes of edification. And I am the source of my illusory experiences. All of them. If "As Above, So Below" works at all, to my mind there cannot be the discrepancy of anything outside the realm of my own creation.

With that said, I'm open to seeing things differently, though I admit a difficulty because this view came with diligence on a growth path that has caused me to let go of absolutely everything in order to hold the world in my creative hands. :-)

And at the same time that I say all of that, I know I'm not done by any means, and I still have much work to do, and that is where the room in my cup lies. And I have identified it as "room for growth", at least.

*willingly offers up her sacred cows* Sue Lu

S in GB wrote:

JQ wrote: CJ seems to be pointing out a phenomena that occurs periodically in this group and has been discussed as something significant to be observed when it occurs, and which can be "a drag".

Sue Lu wrote: << In my view we are the creators of our experiences, though often unconsciously... as opposed to being victims of something outside our creative abilities >>

Sue Lu seems to be pointing out the personal lessons side of things which, of course is valid info but as we know, this is only one half of the equation.

Unless there is equal value given to external realities, then there is danger of falling into the cyor. stance and IMO in this situation it's definitely not a case of laura needing to do some more work on "her stuff".

The matrix influences are very much "out there" although of course our inner weaknesses do attract somewhat in a reciprocal way it's blows. However much inner work we do we cannot totally escape their influences until we're alot further along the way (like 4d?)

It seems the more we align ourselves correctly, the more kick back is to be expected and only by standing up to these challenges in some kind of active engagement, can we hope to "transcend" them. This kick back can be seen as becoming more glaringly obvious, or more subtle, but it's kick back.

As for our attracting these kicks by our state of development, there is truth in this, but even if their nature changes, these "attacks" do not just go away. It' s a big world out there, and alot of our (human) problems are due to the fact that we have not been able to make these very important distinctions in energy alignment (sto/sts) and how it operates.

The more we truly know, the more we will be challenged and the more others express their "lack" of knowledge in a certain area (in a challenging way) on a list such as this, the more it is necessary to challenge their ideas.

In such a case, the one doing the challenging would not be in fear of being wounded/harmed by others/events as their awareness has grown beyond this stage. As Laura described in the transcript just posted :

Q: (L) Well, what precipitated that activity?
A: Ions charged by awareness opening in window of EM envelope, used to precipitate physical trauma in immediate surroundings. "Used to" refers to past tense.
Q: (L) Okay, so in the past, this kind of opening of a window in the EM envelope...
A: You have elevated.

<< As Illion pointed out: Real understanding in spiritual matters is the result of much bitter fighting, of suffering, spiritual agony and soul passion. Life itself would have no meaning if there was no fighting on all planes, if all was smooth and monotonous. Everything fights in nature. Constant struggle on all planes to which it has access is the birthright of the creature. Woe to him who wants to put himself on a level with the Creator and escape fighting! >>

IMHO, this also refers to struggle which necessitates "fighting" of a kind with others, but this fighting is with ideas.

Laura and Ark, again IMHO, are not ordinary people. They have advanced a lot further along the path than probably all of us here. Anyone who accesses their material and begins to get an idea of what they are really doing can see that it is a battle out there, and this battle revolves around definitions of ideas and concepts.

Inevitably this phenomena is going to occur here in this group as words are the medium through which a greater understanding of truth is attempting to be described. For those who have become familiar with the flow of consciousness on this list they can see that this is a very organic process happening here and there is a certain amount of humility in the realization that as already stated, L and A are in many ways, a lot further along this path.

For those (Sue Lu) who have not deeply recognized this fact, it can be assumed that just jumping in without a large background of awareness as to just what sort of depth material has already been explored will put oneself on some kind of equal footing with them and others and a "we're all buddies" kind of attitude can rule their interaction on the list.

Trouble is, this is playing the old game of if we' re just nice to each other somehow we'll all mesh in one homogeneous understanding of everything.

It doesn't seem to work that way. We are all at different levels of awareness and have all been programmed in various ways. It is this programming where the fight must take place, both within and without, using words in an attempt to keep re-defining and making more concrete what are often very particular and subtle definitions of ideas that underpin this quest for sto truth

If someone feels "under attack", this is most certainly not the case here. It is the ideas/attitudes that is coming through them that are under attack. Or rather they are being "resisted" and rightly so, as this is the only way we can cut through the forest and carve out the fine details of the path being sought.

It seems that Laura has been through the alchemical process described and her work and that of those who choose to follow a similar path, is therefore an endeavour to further clarify and affirm one's alignment with that which has been discovered through much struggle, to be truth.

Having "overcome" the challenges of one's own programmed personality, one can appear as a beacon to others or a thorn in their side if they cannot yet see the difference as to where they are at the moment in terms of evolution and where this other person is.

If they can see their own position relative to another, IMHO, great progess can be made in a short time by honest evaluation of oneself. However, as all are at different stages, and all can be conduits of attack, it is very helpful to remember B**'s words that no-one here is personally attacked, it is their ideas that must be reflected and if need be actively resisted in order for us all to gain greater clarity and strengthen our understanding of what really has any value or not.

This is not a game, sto don't play chess.

From Ark:

S in UK wrote: L and A are in many ways, alot further along this path.

Whether it is so or not - we can't know. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

But what we do know is that there are not so many "marriages of science and mysticism" that are out there available to serve those who seek such a service on their own path.

So, what we do is: we decided to serve, to give what we have, to share and to work so as to take our service to a higher and higher level.

Being a marriage of science and mysticism Cassiopaea is rather unique. It combines open mind with scientific criticism, it combines, or tries to combine, physics and mathematics, and space science with love and with human compassion. It tries to develop esoteric ideas of the past with modern knowledge and with modern experiences of alien abductions and glimpses of the matrix system.

Whether we succeed or not - is an open question. But one thing is sure: we will not succeed alone, without help, without support, without networking, without working together. It is a group effort, and if we succeed - many will succeed.

HM here:

Ark and Laura are what makes this list work. I've seen so many groups, not only Internet based but in "real Life" go bad because inevitably some bozo wants to take over the group in his or her image. While it is possible to say this is censorship, depending on your perspective, it does show the committment to the ideas of STO.

From my perspective, when someone wants to do the "good work" there's always somebody or group that wants to destroy it by in general attacking the messenger personally. This is the number one clue to their perspective. Just as similar, we hear the "why are you attacking me? All I did was make a statement."

No detailed analysis is possible if the list members are constantly bickering among themselves over fluff. The matrix knows that and as Laura has said "Mouravieff is right: they get more and more subtle."

What's so crazy is that a person could not be aware of the program, but runs it anyway. The effort needed is 24/7 and most of us don't have the "time." I suppose that if I don't do it now, I'll have all the time in the world...

From CL:

I think the time has come for me to sign off from the group now and so I want to take this opportunity to wishing you all the best for the future:

Much happiness and success to you!

Quite a few of you may not recognise my name. I must admit that over the last couple of months I have only been lurking and not contributing, and one of my intentions when joining was to stay only as long as I was contributing.

For 2 or 3 months now I have been thinking that it was time for me to concentrate my energies on subjects nearer to what I see to be my path. Of course the discussions here are so regualarly interesting and of such quality ( and the group members such pleasant cyber companions) that I have several times delayed sending this email.

Those of you here when I joined you may remember that I said that I was commited to a buddhist path of practice and this is still the case. From my side there has been nothing that we talk about here that has negated anything that I have come to know through Buddhism. Sometimes I have thought that a subject might be futher illumined by a Buddhist perspective other times the discussions have cast a brighter light on points within Buddhism and viewed from a differing angle made them clearer. Other times of course there are subjects with which Buddhism is not concerned - whatever the case it has all been very interesting.

Now it seems to me that the the direction of the group is moving away from my core interests. I don't want you to think that I view this in a negative light. This is not the case. Equaly it might be said that I understand myself to be moving in a different, though hopefully not too divergent direction. The recent focus on Gurdjieff - Fourth Way related material and Esoteric Xianity, though interesting does not resonate with me at all. I have of course come across Gurdjieff before and on none of the previous occaisions either have I been able to relate to it in the personal way that I read many of you here doing. The material does not seem to be able to reflect my lifes experiences in the same deep way. This goes for other (STO leaning) Western esoteric teachings as per the Zealator or Steiners Anthroposphy - I respect their position, their pretty evident good faith, but it does not strike a light for me. There is no `Aha!' moment.

I have to acknowledge the fact that this is quite different to my experience of Buddhist teachings and practice.

I can't leave without giving thanks for the eye-opener of the whole Maynerd Most saga (I joined just after he sent his initial spam) and following on from that the uncomfortable discovery of the presence of psychopaths - the people of the lie - to be much more common among us than I had realised. Not only their unmasking however but also the opportunity to be present during L&A's amazingly brave and resolute defence against their predations. There is a phrase that has been used, something like `give the lie the truth it asks for' that for me encapsulates this series of sometimes almost unbelievable interactions. (Particulaly gob-smacking when VBs C-V, his whole life story, turned out to be a tissue of lies!) Though I shamefacedly acknowledge that I sat looking in from the safe periphery while the group unmasked that eeny-weeny tyrant, even from there it was an amazing lesson.

I intend now to concentrate on what I see as my true direction. I recently spoke to the abbot of a Buddhist monastery to see if it would be possible to join the community as a Buddhist monk. He has given his permision. It will take another 12 months to arrange my life in such a way that I can take the step into monasticism. This - barring cold feet, falling head-over-heels in love, and/or similar serious accident :) is what I am now working towards.

Very best wishes to you all.

From Laura:

Hi All, We frequently notice visitors to our site who come from other message boards and, naturally, being curious as to why they are visiting any particular page, we often go to have a look.

This has made us aware of many friends, and has also resulted in our page listing the links to the Cass site with reciprocal links from us at: http://quantumfuture.net/quantum_future/links2us.htm

Of course, sometimes this process brings surprises. As it did last night.

On another message board, the following was posted:

Topic:      'The Terror of the Situation' (1 of 10),
Read 50 times Conf: Channelings/Articles
From: ****
Date: Sunday, June 16, 2002 06:15 PM

I just read a very interesting article about changes our society seems to be making these days. The author of this attributes the changes to humanity become more robot-like, but also states that we seem to be changing into a more "animalistic" state-of-mind.

I do agree with some of what he's saying since I've noticed how much nastier people have gotten in general. Sue Lu also did a great post on this a ways back, about how people seem to be much worse than a few years ago. I'm sure others on these boards have noticed this too. Anyhow, the one thing the author of this article leaves out is Ascension Symptoms and what we're presently going through. I do think much of this negative stuff we're going through is kind of a "purging" process regardless of who you are. This is an interesting topic, and seems to pop up from time to time. I hope you enjoy the article, it really does make you think.

If you go to the link below (sorry I couldn't cut and paste this), it's the C's website, click on the left hand side where it says " New articles: Aurora Journal" and you'll see "The Terror of the Situation".

http://cassiopaea.org/cass/index.htm

Some of you may recognize our former member, **** who was removed from the group for a variety of reasons including offlist contact with some of the ladies in an attempt to "hit on them." Those who did not accept his "overtures" were then treated to rather nasty personal attacks.

Those of you who have read KS's article, posted on the Aurora Journal pages, will all be familiar with what he is talking about since it is essentially what we talk about here on the list quite often.

It will probably also be thought that what K** wrote merely reflects the "waking up and seeing the Matrix." That process was aptly represented in the movie with Neo's classic reaction of losing his cookies. Not a pretty picture, but fairly accurate, I would say.

I am saying this because the point is, I wouldn't have posted the article if I hadn't thought it was of value regarding the processes we deal with here on the list everyday.

So, that brings us to the point: There were several responses to this article on said message board one of which went as follows:

Topic:      'The Terror of the Situation' (2 of 10),
Read 44 times
From:***
Date: Sunday, June 16, 2002 07:12 PM

I clicked on the link. But I have to admit, I didn't search for the stated article. Because the headline said it all for me... "Open your I and see" -Powwow

Topic:      'The Terror of the Situation' (5 of 10),
From: *****
Date: Monday, June 17, 2002 02:28 AM

Hmmmmm... I wonder where he lives? I've been noticing, for quite sometime now, here in LaLa Land, and in certain friends, some of these behaviors. Yet I have yet to run into ANY women, appreciating being disrespected, or liking and accepting to being treated like an object.

Also, I don't think fighting serves a purpose, except to give those STS, exactly what they're wanting... Namely, chaotic negatively polarized, fear energy, and our power... In fact, just his posting such a long winded expose, as he did, only serves to keep the very "control mechanisms", both internally for himself and the collective, tightly in place, and fully recouped with even more energy, allowing it to continue its terror.

In Service to Spirit and Others, as always, from only the highest manifest good for All in Love and Light. Ke' e Aloha Nui Loa, In La' Kech, Namaste, :-D, Gentleheart!

Topic:      'The Terror of the Situation' (6 of 10),
From: *****
Date: Monday, June 17, 2002 03:42 AM

I read a large portion of it this morning. I vaguely remember reading this same concept about automatons in a gym, before. I can't grasp where or it when it was I read this. He says something about asking if a downward shift has recently occurred. He seems to think that because he sees this, that it's the "world" that has changed. But I would think that he's probably now seeing what always has been. He's risen out of it enough to see it, but he's not clear on why he sees it. The new "knowledge" is frightening him. But there's nothing that need be frightening about finally "seeing". I think if we just take care of ourselves, and treat others in accordance to how we see, then we'll positively affect them by our example. They'll gradually respond in kind, and then they'll "see" too. Once you start "seeing" the larger picture, you can't be manipulated by it anymore. You don't even have to "fight" it. It's the "deception" that has the power. But once the deception is seen through, its rendered impotent, and need not even be fought. All you need to do at that point, is to dismiss it.

Topic:      'The Terror of the Situation'
From: ****
Date: Monday, June 17, 2002 03:55 AM

Exactly!

Transcend, transcend, transcend. Then learn some more, then repeat.

Universe relationship through gratitude, with observance of Source in all things, and a Nurturance of life! In Service to Spirit and Others, as always, Gentleheart.

My Mayan Kin/Name is Cib. I Am a Yellow Magnetic Warrior. I Unify in order to Question. Attracting Fearlessness. I seal the Output of Intelligence. With the Magnetic tone of Purpose. I am guided by my own power doubled, :-)!

Which leads me to the question addressed to our new member: If the above is what you really think, then why did you join the Cassiopaea discussion group?

From KS:

Hi Laura, K** here

Looks like I brought some of the nuts out of the fruitcake with the article 'Terror of the Situation. Thanks for posting 'Speaking of which'.

The above response is what I'd like to comment on. First, in my opinion he accuratly accesses my difficuly in differentiating between my changing in relation to the world or the world changing in relation to me. This is relativity. I need a third frame of reference and that will be the facts I get.

The second part of the post is what I'd like to comment on. It says:

> I think if we just take care of ourselves, and treat others in accordance to how we see, then we'll positively affect them by our example. They'll gradually respond in kind, and then they'll "see" too.

I'm not certain what the poster means by "just take care of ourselves. and treat others in accordance to how we see", then we'll positively affect them by our example. I take this to mean just see but don't judge. To judge is to try to fix. asnd to fix is an STS concept to bend the world to their Will. I accept that.

Then the poster says:

Once you start "seeing" the larger picture, you can't be manipulated by it anymore. You don't even have to "fight" it. It's the "deception" that has the power. But once the deception is seen through, its rendered impotent, and need not even be fought. All you need to do at that point, is to dismiss it

This is where my point of contention is. People have to get real. He's not being real here. It's not so simple to see and be free. Crap! We must always fight to see. How can one see it if one dosen't fight to see it. I see it because of my past efforts to see it. It only appeared to be accidental when it 'happened' (assuming it wasn't my wishful thinking seeing what it wants to see).

After seeing it we must continue the fight(making inner efforts) to keep seeing it. Its easy to say deception is rendered impotent by seeing it. But deception FIGHTS BACK in 10 thousand different ways. The fight is always 'On'. This poster wants it to be easy---see and be free--Crap! The truth will set you free but we must always fight our inner demons to see the truth and keep seeing it.

People talk of beauty and ascention---all well and good. But if we are at the bottom of a river with a ball and chain around our ankle and we wish to ascend to the top---we have to cut the chain first.

In my opinion, its very important to develope one's awareness to SEE the subtle nuances of the matrix. One must constantly be attentive within onself and what's going on outside ourselves and the relationship between them. To fail to see this relationship will vector one to think that one is seperate from what one see's which can lead to a superior attitude halting one's development. There are parts of us inexorably linked to the matrix and other parts that are more seperate from it. Lying to ourselves, in my opinion is what maintains and strenghtens this linkage.

The fear generated from seeing these nuances can be used as a source of energy to MAKE EFFORTS to be more aware. There is no reason to fear fear, because we can use that fear as a means to be free of that very thing that we are afraid of.

From Laura:

Indeed. That is the process of "collecting the "B" influences." This act of tuning our antennae to see it is the building of the magnetic center because what we are learning to see is the objective reality - not the Matrix illusion.

But, as we have seen, the very idea of doing this is too scary to some people. The individual who commented on the other discussion board:

"From: *****
Date: Sunday, June 16, 2002 07:12 PM

I clicked on the link. But I have to admit, I didn't search for the stated article. Because the headline said it all for me... "Open your I and see" -Powwow"

...demonstrated this fear graphically. The very phrase "Open your I and seek..." was a turn off to that person because the "A" influences had such a hold that the Predator's mind was in total control. You wrote:

> One must constantly be attentive within onself and what's going on outside ourselves and the relationship between them. To fail to see this relationship will vector one to think that one is seperate from what one see's which can lead to a superior attitude halting one's development. There are parts of us inexorably linked to the matrix and other parts that are more seperate from it. Lying to ourselves, in my opinion is what maintains and strenghtens this linkage. Indeed. The fear generated from seeing these nuances can be used as a source of energy to MAKE EFFORTS to be more aware. There is no reason to fear fear, because we can use that fear as a means to be free of that very thing that we are afraid of.

Absolutely. There is a book out called "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker in which he writes:

I've presented these facts ... for a reason: to increase the likelihood that you will believe it is at least possible that you or someone you care for will be a victim at some time. That belief is a key element in recognizing when you are in the presence of danger. That belief balances denial, the powerful and cunning enemy of successful predictions.

Even having learned these facts of life and death, some readers will still compartmentalize the hazards in order to exclude themselves. Denial has an interesting and insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when victimized is far, far greater than that of those who accept the possibility.

Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level, and it causes a constant low-grade anxiety.

Millions of people suffer that anxiety, and denial keeps them from taking action that could reduce the risks.

If we studied any other creature in nature and found the record of intraspecies violence that human beings have, we would be repulsed by it. We'd view it as a great perversion of natural law - but we wouldn't deny it. As we stand on the tracks, we can only avoid the oncoming train if we are willing to see it and willing to predict that it won't stop. [...]

When we experience real fear, this is a powerful ally that says "do what I tell you to do."

Like every creature, you can know when you are in the presence of danger. Our instincts connect us to the natural world and to our nature. Freed from the bonds of judgment, married only to perception, it carries out prediction.

How often have we said: "You know, there is one other thing, and I don't have any concrete reasons for thinking this... but... I just have this feeling... and I hate to even suggest it...." And right there, you need to pay attention.

We ARE 3rd density beings. We live in a body that is controlled by the Predator's mind and the programs that are installed in us from infancy.

We DO have a perfect soul, but it is NOT this personality that has been created by the predator - twisted and distorted and full of lies and games and illusions and false gods. And the only way we can connect to our true and perfect self is to build a connection, to magnetize it so to say. And that only happens when we live in truth. And we cannot live in truth as long as we lie and support lies and games and illusions.

Gurdjieff said that if we really saw the mechanical state of humanity, we would go mad with horror. So, as the Sufis say, we have to use what we have the right way for the right reasons and if what we are is capable of having the bajeesus scared out of us when we really SEE, then let's have at it, and get on with it.

From BT:

Hi K** and all. I have posted this before, but it has been awhile and there are some new faces around, so I will briefly bring it up again.

A couple of years back as I started to read and become involved with Laura & Ark's site/groups, I would catch a glimmer of manipulation or a program that was being run and for a while, there was this sense of elation that I was in some way penetrating the veil. It was rather short lived, because soon after going through that bout of ego stroking I had a couple of instances where it was obvious the matrix had reared its little head and for some reason, realized that the instance was there primarily for me to gawk at and think I understood the mechanics of manipulation. They were a cover for a deeper manipulation that was hiding behind the screen of discovery.

Well, a couple of realizations later, I was confronted with situations that showed me that the manipulations that were being covered were yet again covers for even deeper and more subtle manipulation.

At this point, I would not even venture to conjecture just how deep the rabbit hole actually goes before it hits bottom. In fact, in a 3d STS lesson environment, there may be no bottom. This ties in with Laura's comments about how people not on the path view people as unsuccessful when they are on the path because that would invalidate their existance. If us/we 3ders are that tenacious, imagine how tenacious and persistant 4ders will be.

From FJ:

BT, Which is why we need failsafe "assumptions" (I don't like that word, anybody have a better word?): -as 3Der's our experience is always distorted -whatever I think I know, it is pathetic on the playing field of vastness -if you aren't feeling fear, you aren't learning -if you aren't learning from others, you are deceiving yourself -if you feel pride in the knowledge, you are engaging in a power game -if love does not follow in the footsteps of knowledge, you are misunderstanding the whole point (in case you are wondering, these come from my personal experience of working with the traps of an esoteric path, not from aphorisms I have been told)

Laura:

"I would only add that the fear item ought to be equal parts of fear and ecstasy."

FJ:

I was a little shy there. Well, the following IS an aphorism I was told: "Sunshine and tears simultaneously create a rainbow" Frank J.

From S in UK:

when I first discovered the C's info I received a whammy of an attack by the matrix which lasted over a week. The most shocking event (apart from being physically hit by "something"), was the dictionary on my desk being changed to another book (for several hours - I eventually threw it away and a few days later looked in the trash and it was the same book again) The cover was the same, but EVERY WORD was different...all negative descriptions aimed at me. Although by this point I was well weirded out by the high strangeness of what had been happening, part of me wanted to laugh at what I saw was the ridiculous lengths these "forces" will go to in order to "make their point" (ie that their fears of non-existance drive them to attempt to invalidate our existance in whatever ways they can)

From FJ:

Random thoughts that Laura ignited in me: "what we are is capable of having the bajeesus scared out of us" IF we are capable--my, my this is the crux of the path and the horrible danger of wishful thinking and white washing our experience with "high" interpretations. If we can't SEE our condition as it is, better to never have started on this path of awakening. This is why banckruptcy of the spirit--the dark night of the soul--is so critical and it may last a long time until it slowly transforms into another, more permanent experience of reality. To ty to escape this pain too soon by creating a beautiful vision and then believing that it IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING NOW is the ultimate crime against our humanness. Sometimes, the rednecks and the unawakened and the sleepers are more honest and direct with their lives than the "searchers" and "seekers".

From JH:

Laura: The Integral Lie - this characterizes that person who, from a habit of lying and cheating on every occasion, ends by believing his own lies and thus loses all sense of truth. The roots of illusion within us: the mother of lies to ourselves.

This is just a brief snip from another enormous post. But this section jumped out at me in the Mourivieff book. The group came to the above conclusion about VB et al whilst you and Ark were at "Maths Camp". It was really interesting and in a sense exciting to watch and be part of. It's nice to see someone else has come up with the same conclusion.

From Sue Lu to CJ:

S wrote: The healing and real light came for me when I recognized that these events were FOR MY DESTINY and self-created in some tangible ways, not forced upon me by some unknown or even known assailant. The works.

CJ wrote: You make a point that I have wondered about here. There was a time when I sincerely believed that the many dark nights I had survived were pre planed to wake me up. And I would have willingly gone through those years again to make sure I would wake up. Many, like myself, began to awaken as a result of these shocks. But if the matrix is in control, (and I am thinking of this as an outside force) why did I, or any of us for that matter, wake up? Does our predator mind have an opposite that serves to counteract the effects at certain stress points? This seems to make sense with what the C's have said regarding the battle being "through us". If there is not something in the universe that works to oppose sts manipulations, then it seems that the waking up is what has been left to accident. (I know my reasoning is a bit faulty here, but I have learned that if I take the time to think through everything completely, I will never post.)

So it seems to me you are saying that everything is in us. There is a perfect balance that is working toward a pre planed destiny. Would love to have the elaborated upon.

S wrote: Indeed, this may be the crux of the matter, perhaps. As I see it, the matrix is not "other". We each live with the genetics that validate and continually enforce the matrix as its existed in its limited paradigm. It serves us, actually, by "holding us to" our limitations until we reach a breaking point.

And we do move toward breaking points because of a part of us often labeled "Spirit" or "Soul"... to my mind, a source of "essential energy", use the common terms if it works for you... which is our true "driving force". It is not "of the world". This is our "higher" aspect, accessed through our within using meditation and open contemplation. It's the place from which the WILL to survive our traumas stems, that undying spark that insists we get up and rethink, review and try again.

The knowledge of how the matrix serves us is in turn the way we alter its affects on us, and indeed may even change the matrix itself. Again, we each hold the programming within us that the matrix takes as its cue to manifest events and experiences in our lives. We're literally in control... if we can but recognizes how we're doing it.

This is a hologram of education. The matrix is impersonal. The cause of the DNA alterations may be due to a plot by 4D STS forces, but they are not our God in any real way. We CHOSE to participate in their scheme, and carve out a knowledge path that relinquishes their false control and recenters the power where it truly lies. And we chose to do this because it's fun! :-)

As I see it, the first programs installed in us once here (which does not mean the "when" of DNA alteration, but rather the result of such from the get-go) is "unconscious" emotional programming, due to our immediate environment in a limited paradigm. From that, we generate, from within, our own limited beliefs (also often unconscious) that serve to attempt an equilibrium with these unconscious programs that motivate and influence us regularly.

The work of waking up, for me, was a process of first identifying the "sameness" I saw the world over, as far as emotional dramas go. This sparked the realization that they are repeating programs of Being. Uncovering these early emotional programs and following them to the thinking that is married to them actually brought me to a place of understanding, compassion and gratitude. And lo and behold, as has been noted, the DNA modifications are essentially archetypal myths that rule us.

Again, my view, which - stubborn as I may be - I seem to find support for in the C's material. *chuckle* The greatest myth, the true sacred cow from my vatnage point, is that there is something actually controlling us outside our access that we must submit to or defend against, now or any"time".

But hey... I've been knocked on my butt more times than I care to recall, and this perspective of mine may get me the same once again. Whatever. That's what I'm here for. If I don't fully commit, why bother, you know? :-) ~Sue Lu

From KW:

Thanks Sue Lue,

all, These ideas you presented caused me to begin to think that the Matrix is our construct alone, that the Orions/Lizzies/Grays may have done all they did in the way of alterations and seeding and installation of the predator mind to take advantage of something we already had the prepensity toward.

Remember the following in Wave 3:

Q: (L) About these three forces. You said numerous souls desired physical existence. When the numerous souls did this, how did physical existence come to be?
A: First was apelike.
Q: (L) And then what happened? Did these apelike beings just pop into the air? What did the souls do with these apelike beings? A: Souls altered them by transfer into seeded bodies. Orion Union was first to put human souls in for incubation process thereby producing neanderthal.
Q: (L) Are you saying that genetically altered ape embryos were put back into ape females for gestation?
A: No. Souls only.
Q: (L) They put the souls into the ape-like bodies?
A: Close. The soul's presence in the ape body cause its genetics and DNA to change.
Q: (L) So, human souls entered into living creatures on this planet to experience 3rd density reality and by entering in caused mutation?
A: Yes. Then were altered by Orion Union first. ...
Q: (L) Where did the souls come from that entered into the bodies on the planet earth? Were they in bodies on other planets before they came here?
A: Not this group. Q
: (L) Were they just floating around in the universe somewhere?
A: In union with the One. Have you heard the Super ancient legend of Lucifer, the Fallen Angel?
Q: (L) Who is Lucifer?
A: You. The human race.
Q: (L) Are you saying that the souls of individual humans are parts of a larger soul?
A: Yes. Close. The One. You are members of a fragmented soul unit. All who have fallen must learn "the hard way."
Q: (L) Are you saying that the act of wanting to experience physical reality is the act of falling? What is it about wanting to be physical that is a "fall"?
A: Pleasure for the self.
Q: (L) Did, at any time, the human race live for a long time in an Edenic state, where they were able to be in bodies and still had a spiritual connection?
A: Yes. But not long. No addiction takes long to close the circle.
Q: (L) So, mankind was addicted to pleasuring the self?
A: Became quickly.
Q: (L) How long from the time of the moving of souls into bodies until the "Fall" in Eden occured?
A: Not measurable. Remember Laura, there is no time when this event occurred. Time passage illusion did not exist at that point as well as many other falsehoods.
Q: (L) So you are saying that the Fall in Eden was also the beginning of time?
A: Yes. ...
Q: (L) Wasn't the Lizard takeover an event that occurred at the time of the fall of Eden?
A: Yes.

And in Wave 12a:

Q: Okay. The 'Fall' occurred. It seems like, and some of the archaeological studies indicate, that for many thousands of years, there was a peaceful existence and a nice agrarian society where the goddess or female creative forces were worshipped. At least, this is what a lot of present-day books are proposing...
A: No. These events took place 309000 years ago, as you measure it. This is when the first prototype of what you call "modern man" was created. The controllers had the bodies ready, they just needed the right soul matrix to agree to "jump in.

Then in Wave 13e Laura states:

It is during this [childhood development] phase that the "matrix" forms as a "semantic universe" of verbal structures. Language is conceptual, as we have discussed previously, and is one of the things that distinguishes 3rd density from 2nd density. Our concepts are a sort of "framework of perception" that we learn as we learn words.

As we are learning our language, things such as "hot" and "cold," we are also learning that one thing is "good" or another is "bad." We can either handle things freely because they are "good," or "don't touch" because they are "bad." There is, in this phase, a tremendous drive in a child to "create order." This drive is aimed at grouping, identifying, correlating and naming everything. And, as this is being done, there is a constant check with the parents and others interacting with the child as to whether this is "bad" or "good" or "real" or "not real."

What the child is doing is defining not only himself, but his entire world.

It is at this stage that most of our complex belief systems are formed. Everything that surrounds him is raw material for the child. The Matrix is created by the guiding actions and responses from the other minds around him. The matrix is, in reality, a gigantic conditioning system. And we insert our children into it through our own actions.

KW Here: Maybe I'm just playing 'catch-up' here and some things are finally sinking in. If the Matrix is our construct, and, when in the awakening process all the forces come to bear on us to have us go back to 'sleep', then it really is the 'sleeping' that is exerting that pressure, and the best the controllers can do is activate the agents to alert the 'sleepers' to exert the pressure.

They have other tools in the form of the predato's mind overlay to use to influence us directly but that isn't really a part of the Matrix except to the extent that we buy into the lies and construct the Matrix around those perceptions, if I am understanding myself correctly here.

If that is the case then maybe all the effort to keep us in the sleeping state is for us to keep the Matrix in place. The fear they have about someone awakening is not that they will be seen or lose a food source, but that, as part of a group soul they are milking in mass, that awakening fragment will cause the ripple that destroys our own construct.

They like to conserve energy, so they would naturally want to take advantage of something we tend to do anyway - believe lies and create illusions based upon those lies. The Evil Magician. Hello!!!

From JQ:

Sue Lu wrote: "Nothing exists without consciousness to perceive it" is, to my mind, a precise way of saying that everything I perceive, I perceive because I perceive it... if it's not in me, I won't see it "out there". And from that recognition I turn inward to see just why it is that I see/experience the things I do. Sure enough, the source is in me."

JQ: cant say i agree with this, we can perceive things outside of us that are not "in" us or part of us. unless our ego is so huge that we really believe that everything "out there" is a product of our own mind - talk about a "god complex."

Sue Lu: "The illusory realm I chose to focus my consciousness within for this duration is merely that: an illusion populated with the actors I chose to play the roles I needed for my lessons. Lessons I chose to experience while here. I'm the script writer, the producer, the director and really, the only actor... projecting parts of me into other forms outside of me when I cannot clearly see the force of this or that lying hidden within me."

JQ: In that case, you should also be able to call a halt to the production right? The above sounds very like the STS way of looking at the "all" i.e. that all else forms part of the self therefore is fair game to be taken to the self by force or manipulation if necessary.

While we may have created the matrix or this 3D reality in an absolute sense, i.e. from the POV that we are the Cs and them us, and that at 7D "all are one", that does not serve us at this level, we do not have the resources (read awareness) of 6th or 7th density available to us personally.

From the reality that we find ourselves in and from a perspective of trying to get out of it, it matters not if we created 3D in a broader sense, the truth is we are trapped here, and are severely restricted via the predators mind which is not ours.

Sue Lu says "we are literally in control"

i find that extant 3D reality could not be further from this. Most people are defintely NOT in control. Most are controlled in an absolute sense, to the extent, in fact, that they do not even know it! hows that for TOTAL control!

its one thing to force someone to do something, and have them complain but still do it because have no choice, as opposed to a control system that is so effective that the controlees dont even realise that they have no control. That is, to paraphrase Don Juan, "a pretty stupendous maneuver" from the controllers POV, pretty horrendous from ours.

And as to "changing the matrix"...whats wrong with it? it serves its purpose pretty well, we should be concentrating on gettting out of it not changing it. To quote a member who once posted: "the only thing that we have any right to change, and indeed any hope of changing, is ourselves"

KH wrote:

Now, from me, I want to learn, and gain knowledge and have been trying to do so. I can understand plain language, not embellised language. Some, who are ahead of me on the learning scale have no trouble with that embellished and richly ornate language..and learn easily with it. I do not. I like plain layman's english. I cannot easily understand G or M or the Isb arabi guy..I have to learn at my own pace. And maybe I am one of the most stupid on here, but I am trying. Also, I do not like when I am labeled. I do not feel it is fair to be labeled. If I have an interchange with Ark or Laura or anyone on this list and it opens my eyes..then that is a good thing. I do not want to be labeled because of the exchange or name or anything else. Just some thoughts.

JQ wrote:

Hi KH, again, in my experience this list is not a place where labels or judgements are passed out on anyone, most are having trouble labeling themselves never mind anyone else! ;-)

But on that point, if I may suggest, from the above post, you seem to have got there ahead of most of us. What I am saying in plain english, (which is my favorite type too) is that from your post you seem to have successfully labeled yourself already...but then again, we all do that.. and it's almost always wrong! :-D

Sue Lu answers CJ:

Sue Lu wrote: Again, my view, which - stubborn as I may be - I seem to find support for in the C's material. *chuckle* The greatest myth, the true sacred cow from my vatnage point, is that there is something actually controlling us outside our access that we must submit to or defend against, now or any"time". Is this not a subtle difference when you say "outside our access". Whether within or without it seems we can still have access.

CJ wrote: Is this not a subtle difference when you say "outside our access". Whether within or without it seems we can still have access.

Sowelu here: Certainly, CJ, we have both avenues of access all the time. However, when it's an outer access, it comes in the form of pain or circumstance to show us what we might have held in our consciousness, but didn't, in the form of awareness/knowledge. And it SEEMS to be "not us" or "other" when we access it outwardly, instead of seeing it's of our own making. And this tends to maintain confusion.

Let's say we are each made up of 100% light, for discussion purposes. That 100% can be held as knowledge in our consciousness, or it can be EXpressed, light given outward unconsciously, to any number of events in our lives. We have 100% light, and its up to us what we do with it.

When we truly understand and possess knowledge regarding what lies within us - all of it - we hold our 100% light in our consciousness. But when we have hidden parts of us detracting from our conscious awareness, we are still 100%, we're just scattered in the manifested reality. This is a school, remember, teaching us who we are.

Emotional issues not yet revealed block our ability to hold light (be aware, KNOW) around whatever that issue is, as do false beliefs. So... the light for that issue, that could have resided in our consciousness but doesn't, must exist here, so it gets EXpressed in events that "bring that painful emotional issue home" through the light of experience. (This is somewhat how the matrix holds us to our limitations)

When an event occurs, it IS "light being shed on our darkness", so to say. We may not comprehend what we experience or witness, but it is light being shed, nonetheless. In fact, the very fact that it's occurred in an outer event indicates that we DON'T understand it. Because if we did, we would hold that light of understanding in our consciousness and not need a lesson to manifest so that we could learn it. Whatever we feel but repress, or think, that is false, will be revealed through manifestation in form.

Since we didn't comprehend the energy when it lay quietly within us, it cues the matrix to manifest what we hide in ourselves. We repress, put off, deny, reject, hate... due to fear. Fear is the cue to the matrix. All energy in form is essential energy "trapped" by the dense light of physicality.

We COULD hold that light in our consciousness, again, but because we don't, it is spilled outward in the events of our lives that describe ourselves back to us... until we SEE it. Until we finally understand. Until we finally bring that light home to our consciousness.

Once we do, the events that occurred in our lives to explain ourselves to us fall away, no longer needed to be expressed for our edification, because we truly understand.

So we can access that predator by going within ourselves and truly gaining knowledge of how it is birthed in our lives, or we can access that predator in an event of painful circumstance. Either way, it is us, waiting to be brought to light. That's one of many ways to word this concept. Perhaps not the best, but I gave it a shot. :-)

From Ark:

On June 1 I posted the following to "antigravity" mailing list:

Re: Consciousness as the Basis of Quantum Mechanics

On 1 Jun 2002, at 16:06, Robert Neil Boyd wrote:
An important result which contributed to my theory was the recent experimental evidence which refutes Heisenburg Uncertainty.

Ark here: In my recent talk at the Clifford Algebra conference - see the link at quantumfuture.net/quantum_future/papers/qfract/images/index.htm

I stressed the fact that we have been brainwashed into believing that uncertainty principle prevents us from simultaneous measurements of noncommuting observables. I even compared it to the biblical warning to not eat from the tree of knowledge - otherwise terrible things gonna happen. Not only nothing terrible happens, but a door into a new reality and new possibilities opens. That is how quantum fractals were generated.

It is intereseting that, for reasons not yet understood, the transformations of quantum states generated in a natural way during measurements of noncommuting observables as described in quantumfuture.net/quantum_future/qfractals.htm and in the forthcoming paper on quantum fractals on the Poincare disk (or hyperbolic plane), belong to the conformal class (specifically: they are particular Moebius tranformations). This was first anticipated by Palle Jorgensen and checked by Pertti Lounesto during the conference in TennTech, Cookeville just few days ago.

Interesting coincidence? Or something more?

ark

Today the following sad message came today, June 25:

THIS IS WITH GREAT REGRETS THAT WE LET YOU KNOW THAT PERTTI LOUNESTO HAS DIED WHEN SWIMMING IN CRETE ON JUNE 21. HE WAS A FRIEND AND INSPIRATION OF MANY OF US. HE WILL BE MISSED. CONDOLENCES TO HIS FAMILY IN THE NAME OF THE 6TH CONFERENCE AND SESSION ORGANIZERS.

Laura wrote:

I just want to add that the feeling I had upon receiving the news of Pertti's death was one of the strangest I have had in a long time.

The thing that strikes me is that, there we were, sitting at the table with him the first night we arrived in Cookeville, and he was telling me this "joke" about monks and eunuchs and electricity. I was having a hard time trying to figure out the "punch line" because it was delivered in so dry a way.

So, there we were, and I was looking at him and trying to "read" what was behind his eyes and it just gave me a funny feeling even then. I was only conscious that I "liked" him, that there was something indefinable there that evoked a "sympathy." Well, now, of course, I wonder if that "funny feeling" that was completely unrelated to anything I could pin down - and it was very vague - was any kind of "realization" that, in just over a month, the guy would be "on the other side?"

What is also strange is the fact that, when discussing and working with another guy on a similar subject some years back, not long after Ark had discussions with him, he too drowned in the Black Sea.

So, the parallel is that discussion and work on certain subjects was followed by drowning in two cases separated by many years. And that gave me a very strange feeling.

DC wrote:

Sad and puzzling to hear, indeed.

Of course I would be curious about this 'something more'. Would it practically be possible to investigate if the frequency of deadly 'accidents' or suicides is higher in a group of mathematicians/physicists working in a certain 'matrix-endangering' domain? There would at least be some practical difficulties: * who would design such a category of mathematicians/physicists? It could be argued that a physicist/mathematician knowledgable on the 'matrix' topic would be a good choice - but at the same time shouldn't be aware of the people who died to prevent unconscious bias in the creation of the groups - this would unfortunately exclude you. * How would you find out the number of accidents the physicists/mathimaticians have experienced in their lives - I don't know if all would want to give this data.

And maybe even if it is possible to design a good study the number of people dying because of the "something more" reasons could in itself be to small to find a significant difference. Would it be possible if the Matrix would have a 'statistically significant' tresshold built in that it doesn't cross to prevent detection? If so would it even be possible to detect the Matrix by way of the usual scientific method?

Am I correct that it could be worthwhile to broathen this type of investigation to include non-scientists? I was thinking along the lines of predicting which kind of people were more a threat to the matrix and investigate their life expectancy, 'accident' frequency or general health (probably they would be healthier in general, but maybe they would get more aggressive cancers?). I know of one person who just seems to attract bad luck (accident after accident, fires, etc. etc.) and is involved with catholicism - but maybe it is better explained by something in her character that attracts/puts her in those situations?

Maybe people who are a danger to the matrix are also more 'aware' and thus less vulnerable to normal accidents because they are more vigilant, but maybe they are also more riskseekers - so on average the frequency of normal accidents with normal people and 'matrix accidents' with 'matrix endangering people' could very well be the same. If there was a difference how would you know that all those other factors were not unvolved, including the ones you didn't/couldn't think of?

Do these kinds of swimming accidents happen often in Crete? I sometimes hear from people dying on their holiday because they were falling with their heads on a rock or were swimming in a strong current. If this type of accident is relatively common would it not be more a sad coincidence?

It would be interesting to know what exactly transpired that last hour in Crete. How many of your acquinted collegues died because of an accident or before their time (if you would know that), more than the number of acquinted collegues the average someone else in another field has (with a comparable number of total acquinted collegues).

Laura wrote:

Well, Ark did a little more investigating about the specific subject areas that were being followed in the two cases - Pertti and the Russian guy who drowned in the Black sea. He knows, of course, the exact areas in which he was collaborating with them and the similarities there. But he wanted to check some of their papers and indications of their other work and how they "converged" on his own work.

Strange thing is: he discovered that both were working on the same things as Armand Wyler - the guy who went mad after a year at Princeton and has never been heard from since.

Ark adds: "It was F.A. Berezin. http://mmf.ruc.dk/~booss/recoll.pdf http://www.ams.org/distribution/mmj/vol1-2-2001/neretin.pdf

"Interesting that the subject matter is the same as in new, hyperbolic, quantum fractals, Lobatchevsky plane, or Poincare disk, or Esher-like "cyclic time" - if you wish, and it is the same as A. Wyler was working on - who got invited to Princeton, and then disappeared in some "insane asylum." Perhaps coincidence. Perhaps a maningful one."

Ark knows a few others he has worked with who died from "sudden heart attacks." In one case, he was upset for several days because he KNEW the guy was in great health... he walked a lot, ate healthy, didn't smoke, drank wine only sparingly and with meals, and had a lot of energy. This one (can't remember his name and Ark has gone to the library so can't ask him) was in Gottingen, I believe.

Well, it's a curious thing.

TP wrote:

Is it really curious? I think we all know what kind of technology is out there, and the people that will use it, to make any death look like an accident or natural causes. I could suggest the Ark not go swimming, but that probably wouldn't stop someone with an evil intent. Knowledge protects, and some