Working with little I's

[Chu]

This thread reminded me of something I wrote to someone a while ago, which may be of help here too, since it also deals with not "fighting" against programs. I've edited a bit in order to make it more general and not about this person in particular:

I'd like to suggest something that I've found useful, FWIW. For a long time, I felt I was going in circles, feeling incapable of ever changing anything more than superficially. I was fighting a program and creating another one on top! How can one change what one thinks with the way one thinks about what one thinks? See the problem here?

I wanted to, but I realized I was going about it the wrong way. Reading The Polyvagal Theory was like a big revelation. The idea of having a system capable of reading the signs appropriately (danger when there is danger and safety when it's safe) was totally foreign, I realized. What is it like to feel safe, really? Have you ever felt that way? I don't think many of us have. In spite of knowing that people in this network care about you, you can't feel safe. Why? Well, for many reasons, as we know. But what if that was one of the keys? How can one really help the universe if one feels that the universe itself is so hostile, and even people who love us? Or when even ourselves, inside, are constant enemies of our own potential and crush it down every time?

So that became my first "goal": to experiment and to see how close I could get to that safe ideal, so that perhaps, just perhaps, then I would be able to stop repeating the same mistakes and actually doing more and better. It was an experiment. Perhaps by feeling safer I would control the "I should" introject and actually learn to reduce fear a bit, so that it didn't have to rule every time.

This is the theory, anyway:

What if there was a way to trick the mind? Instead of fighting against a program (and failing because the program itself is designed to make you fail and feel defeated), one could reword things so as to fight for a Goal (e.g. that ideal of safety and the possibilities it might bring).

For example: take three random issues: "feelings of loneliness, not being needed, and dissatisfaction with my life."

What do those three things have in common? They are all negative and self-defeating. You are probably going to want to fight AGAINST a part of yourself, not FOR a goal.

What it you were to turn those around and work toward:
- a feeling of safety
- becoming a helper for the Universe, no matter how little you can give
- being satisfied with your super efforts, knowing you did all you could

Imagine it's a match: If you fight a program directly, whenever you "fall" or make a mistake, the program earns a point and becomes stronger.

You :(: I am not capable of writing a good forum post.
Situation: You are tired or nervous and write what your introject considers to be a bad post.
The program : Aha! See? You can't write good posts! You shall be punished and are good for nothing.
Reality: Hmm, you did reinforce your belief there. It's a no win situation.

Now, imagine that instead of playing with the program as your adversary, you decide to have a goal worthy of your attention, which will have the extra benefit of defeating the program. If you fall, all you've done is test something and not make much progress, but you haven't given any points to the program because you weren't fighting against it directly.

You : I am going to do X, to see if I can get closer to feeling safer, capable, and useful to the Universe.
Situation: You try, and things don't go precisely THAT well, but you tried. Maybe you helped one person in the forum with your post, but you start beating yourself up because it wasn't perfect, you think you sounded stupid, etc.
Program : See? You failed again and I win.
Reality: No, sir, you're wrong. I DID get closer to my goal, because I tried. Go play somewhere else, it's not your turn.

Which then leads you to the possibility of creating a set of rules, a "List" for yourself to keep tricking the mind:

You make a list of the things that you know are for "temporary comfort", and those which had at least the potential of becoming more permanent and getting you closer to that goal. It is a bit tricky because you need to put them in terms that are neither punishing nor self-calming, but that contribute to your aim. Self-discipline and patience.

Example nr.1: "If I feel the need to cheat on the diet, I must do my best to remember that the "temporary gratification" will not provide me with deep emotional safety. I must take 10 minutes to think about it. Then, I can decide whether I still want to do it, or whether there is another thing I can do to feel better." (Usually, if you still eat that chocolate or whatever, you will know why, and allow yourself to give "the wolf a piece of meat", without identifying so much with the "wolf". Other times, more and more often, you might decide that instead, you will do something else to turn your insecurity or frustrations into something that takes you closer to the goal in the long run, like trying to help someone on the forum, posting on SOTT, etc.) You aren't feeding the program. In the worst case scenario, you aren't making much progress toward your goal, and that motivates you to go back and keep trying. No guilt, but more commitment is needed.

Example nr.2: "If I feel I have failed again, I'm not allowed to feel sorry for myself for more than 5 minutes. I need to understand that there is still a long way to go, get back up, and keep trying." (That's actually a hard one, because you have to catch yourself quickly and recognize that you are feeling sorry for yourself. But it's a challenge worth pursuing, an experiment, and sometimes it works!)

Example nr. 3: "If I want to network about something but I'm afraid of being judged, I must post it and see what happens. If I don't try, I'll never know. A warrior is someone who acts in spite of his/her fear."

etc. etc. your "List" can be tailored to be a constant reminder. You can use it to question all your "should" beliefs. With this list, there is no "I should" (program), but rather "I want to get from X to Y" (a goal worth pursuing), not matter what it takes to do so.

Well, these are just some ideas. With the "List" in mind, you might find that nothing is technically impossible. If you feel there is something else you haven't accomplished, getting all the current fears in control might make you want to at least dare to go further.

I'm not saying this works every time! At least I'm not there yet. But I can assure you that compared to a few years ago, now at least I'm not so afraid of trying and it makes obstacles seem less impossible to jump. IMO, what is important is to break the cycle, take it as an experiment, and see where it leads you. Be curious about humanity (and you are part of that). Take it as a challenge, as a mystery to solve. One day at a time, discover, observe, and learn ways to become cleverer than your programs, to develop and become more conscious every time. Don't let them defeat you. But also be realistic about taking small steps. Everything you do counts. Nothing is written in stone, and neither are your programs!

 

[luc]

Thank you everyone for your very kind feedback!

It's funny how putting something into writing and sharing it can help the knowledge take deeper roots: Today I read some of your replies on the smartphone and was itching to reply (another little I...), but I had a business meeting today and really had to put the "job guy" in charge there. Interestingly, once he took over and I was in the meeting, at one point I suddenly remembered my post here and your replies, and felt a slight, draining "stab", which I had to consciously "let fade away". I think it was the "job guy", busy talking to that lawyer about his new website, going "what the HECK is that all about?" when he suddenly briefly met the "forum guy". Really, our little I's can be so different, but it's also great to be more and more able to take a "bird eyes view" on them, and I think I could apply the knowledge I shared in my post better today myself because I put it "out there".

Thank you very much, Luc. I think that's a good approach, because it's a bit like Lobaczewski described as being important: adding moralizing values (trying to destroy I's because they are "evil" psycho-servants) doesn't allow us to solve the problem. One has to look at the situation, observe it, deal with it, train it like a muscle, and little by little, a real understanding and "chief" will emerge.

Yes, it's really hard to accept that there is no "morals" the way we usually think about it. We think it's about "rule books", this is good, this is bad, while the truth is that it wholly depends on the situation. I had a little exchange about ethics here, and I think it's very interesting how Approaching Infinity explained it: "Right" is doing what the Universe "wants". But what does the Universe want? I think the "Master" (aka. conscience) knows best, and until then, "right" is everything that paves the way for the Master. So in this light, our little I's are just tools, and only their use makes them "good" or "bad". But they are also significant - if we use them in the right way, they are the basis of our unique gift to the world, maybe part of the reason why we are here. (But still, I think the worst psycho-servants don't deserve a lot of pity :P)

And, with doing this long enough, every I can have its place, and actually work with the others in more synchrony. Like the one who likes his job, and the one reading esoteric books, and the cook: the one that got the time to work, brings money home, which then allows for buying books and food, which then allows the cook to make dinner, which then allows the reader to be nourished and read better and share what he's read with the others, and the worker to get up and work tomorrow, and they can all live happily ever after. :P

Thanks for that, it's a great analogy: Those little I's forming a functional family... Maybe there should be even some "kitchen table talk" among them :) But then, I'm kind of doing this, since every morning during EE I try to self-observe and think about Work-related stuff, think about different little I's etc., so maybe one day they will know each other better?

I am also impressed with your in-depth description and the "hands-on" examples you provide, luc. Thank you ever so much.

(Attachment: a visual expression of the "frazzled'n'gory" iiiiiii-state of affairs)

Thank you Ysus for sharing this. I really like it and I can see many different layers and possible interpretations - just as it is with our little I's.

Thank you luc. I really liked your interpretation of the "little I's". I am going to try to put this idea to use in my life. Your examples give me clear ananlogies of which I can maintain awareness when in such an actual situation. G's analogy of the mansion run by servants with no steward is very good. In my own case it feels more like a kindergarten classroom filled with a bunch of little brats and no teacher.

:D I guess that's an even better analogy - servants at least are supposed to be adults who at least managed to be accepted into service at the house, but most of our little I's really seem to be 3-year old toddlers with the unfortunate ability to wiseacre their way to the box with the sweets in it...

- snip -

This advice seems to relate more to reducing egotism and increased compassion, but I think it can create a strong enough shock for other uses of development too.

Thanks for this Data. Yes, I think in ISOTM G. also talks about the exercise of "imagine these are the last hours of your life...", which is tremendously helpful I think. The problem is that this thought seems so far-fledged in our modern world that I seldom manage to actually think it. But when I do, it's really kind of a "full reset" of my mind - everything is put into proper perspective, the focus returns.

hey Luc,

I really enjoyed reading your post. I too have been very interested in my own I's for some time trying to understand their workings. For me though what I'm finding most interesting and difficult, is that When i personally choose to go away from a specific "I" , somehow that "I" finds a way back into that moment via a different/ external source.

but i really enjoyed your post and appreciate you sharing

I know exactly what you mean. And I hope I didn't make it all sound too simple - it's incredible hard to get those little I's under control even a little bit, and I fail all the time! But just being able to observe these mechanisms is a huge step forward I think. Something you could try: Once you notice the little I returning, try to feel everything connected to it - how do the different parts of your body feel? What thoughts come to mind? What triggered the little I? Maybe you can even deliberately think of something entirely different and see how the little I reacts - does it get angry because you are trying to kick it from the throne for example? I think it's a rich field for self-observing and experimentation.

Its very easy to forget that we are trying to be in control, in some respect. At times i come home, or before work, with afew hours of free time that can be used very productively for reading, cleaning, or simply relaxing if the body is tired. And half the time i sit and try to 'kill' the time, doing little petty things that accumulate to nothing. All 'I's' want the lime light while there is some spare time. Resulting in relieving no stress, and accumulating to nothing of productive value etc.

Recently i have had that, as you described, 'enthusiastic' reading guy for about 2 weeks. And he just doesn't want to stop. The black and white that's seen is that this is good and only good; for I SHOULD be reading. But that is just what this single enthusiasm would like. It doesn't include the day to day chores, spending quality time with my partner and planning for the remainder of the day. So when this I is in charge, it creates tension and stress in a whole bunch of situations. It gets frustrated and irritable that it cannot read when it wants, and that it doesnt have the time. With an accompanying narrative of ''Reading is productive, i should be reading''.

When in reality, I - the growing power of the stewerd - should be designating it time, and not letting it rule the house. As it cannot function when all else is ignored.

It makes it alot simpler for me to see them as characters, or names; The Reader, Cook, Cleaner, Working man, Friend etc. For each situation, we can address what character is needed. WHO will be best fitted to the task at hand. Even writing that to me sounds abit crazy, having to select an internal state of mind to groove with the external. But atleast it gives control, and gives way for doing what IT doesnt want.
With intent, effort and habbit, i can see this leading to less effort on our part to enforce these little men, and they will soon groove to where they are meant to be at each place and time.

Yes, I think you put it very well: When it comes to "killing time" with all those little I's playing Musical Chair around the throne, it really amounts to nothing. Just taking a nap would be way more productive :) I think putting names to these characters might be an interesting idea - we are just so convinced that we really have "one I" that it sounds crazy to us, but the fact is: We are many, many I's. So why not being conscious of them and use them? I like to think of it as putting different "hats" on in different situations and plan this in advance - like "I'm going to be extroverted in this situation" or "I will listen more than I talk today", "I will be the business guy now" etc. It is difficult though!

As for the "enthusiastic reading guy", one thing that helps me in such situations is to tell him to get some results! Imagine you hire someone to do some research for you: You just won't let him sit in his room for a year! You will actually check on the progress and demand results. Same with the "reading guy": Ask him what results he can present after a while. This exercise helps me to be a more efficient reader - how can I apply this chapter to my life? What of the book can I share on the forum? What messages do I take home from this page? That way, the "reader guy" can be put to use, and sometimes, he flees in horror ;)

 

[obyvatel]

Nice post, Luc.

... His I changes as quickly as his thoughts, feelings, and moods, and he makes a profound mistake in considering himself always one and the same person; in reality he is always a different person, not the one he was a moment ago.

Yep more or less... Just not the same ‘I’ that was reading at the beginning, but then I would have to contemplate my navel, to remain a singular I, and how would we learn, no suffering, no mistakes, no forgetting ourselves – no lessons... no point.

Not clear what you are trying to say here Davida.

Well without change, nothing happens, and when something happens, that an opportunity when self observing, to catch some automatic impulse (that just happens). And what one dose is entirely up to the individual, if that impulse is maintained, or eventually relegated to a foot note, in the narrative of ones life - if I do nothing, nothing happens, and no struggle, no change, no eventual acceptance. Osit

I see no difference between thoughts and I’s, in as much as the environment is thought to enable an expression of some part of ones DNA, life of the personality seems exactly the same, from the DID to the more subtle changes, as even a smell can bring about memories, and ones thoughts, turn to daydreams, and one no longer paying attention to reality, one has forgotten ones self.

If I was the same man from one minute to the next, my thoughts would reflect that, my deeds would reflect that, my awareness would reflect that, ultimately I would be paying strict attention to reality, inside and out. Osit though at the end of the day, were all quiet mechanical, some have better machinery than others. mine not so great...

I think the point is that there will be different thoughts/i's - but with progress in the Work, they will be ordered/organized by a higher agent responding adaptively and creatively to the needs of the moment.

[quote author=Davida]
Thanks for posting excerpts from Views from the real world...

I have difficult time associating personality with thinking centre, more like the looker, personality seems like, what most people give the world, just a lie, wrapped around the emotional centre, to protect it. osit

Will have to think about it, maybe I mix up higher emotions, with the usual horses. mistakes.
[/quote]

Perhaps (re)reading the formatory apparatus can be of help?

 

[Alana]

Thank you Luc for starting this, I enjoyed the way you wrote it down and described the little i's at work, and the subsequent posts. I also view little i's as characters in a drama, sort of thing :)

Thanks for that, it's a great analogy: Those little I's forming a functional family... Maybe there should be even some "kitchen table talk" among them :) But then, I'm kind of doing this, since every morning during EE I try to self-observe and think about Work-related stuff, think about different little I's etc., so maybe one day they will know each other better?

I often think of the little i's inside my head as a case of multiple personalities, with a goal to get to know them and then try to integrate them (a team that needs to work together). So there has to be an observer for this to work, I don't think it's about them getting to know each other, but for a part of me that becomes the detached observer of the rest of them, to get to know each one very well. The better I become aware of the manipulations of ie, the tantrum-throwing brad who wants things to go its way always, the better I am able to have a conversation with it and perhaps reason with it, come to an agreement that will benefit us both. So I have to become aware, even if a little, of how it was created and why, what purpose it served for the development of me, what triggers it and what calms it down. It is in a sense as a parent dealing with its multiple unruly children, or as I like to view it sometimes, a group therapy situation.

Chu used a written dialogue between different i's and Ysus did a pictorial representation of them in their respective posts, and I find that both ways are great, and I recommend trying them out if you haven't. Because by putting them (little i's) "out there" is allowing another part to become the detached observer. I have used both ways before to understand what is happening within me and how to bring inner cohesion about when dealing with extreme emotions and/or conflicting thoughts. I remember once I was at a crossroads in my life and had to make a decision that would affect my future (and of course other people's) and I was freaking out. Well, I wasn't consciously aware that I was freaking out, but I realized it from the feedback I got from the people in my environment, and actually my behavior was showing that I was doing all I could to boycott the life changing prospect. I was baffled, because in my mind, I wanted to say yes to this opportunity! So I sat down and tried to listen to all the different i's (I didn't even call them that at the time, I saw them as my multiple personalities). I did a drawing first of the different characters that emerged, and then wrote down the conversation they would have among them regarding the issue at hand. By the end we reached a conclusion that made everyone, if not happy, comfortable. And I stopped freaking out and made the right decision. The end!

It wasn't the end obviously, but this exercise helped me understand each character better, where they are coming from, their fears and aspirations, to the point that later I could recognize who was acting out or needed attention and whatnot, and have the conversation in my head. The trick to this working is to let it (drawing and/or dialogue) flow without controlling it. Just let whatever comes out do so in its own way, it doesn't have to make sense, be pretty, sound good, etc. You don't need special drawing or writing skills, just the ability to hold a pencil between your fingers (and I've seen people paint amazing images using their toes because they didn't have arms, so the possibilities are endless). And despite my angsting I found it to be a fun exercise that I later used in groups, with the same effects. It helps with not taking oneself too seriously too.

 

[patty2292]

Really enjoyed this way of looking at it. It truly resonated with me as soon as i started reading, and have already been able to motivate myself and stay in the correct 'character' (For the past 2 days atleast :P).

Acknowledging them not as the enemy to shun and 'destroy' as such, but as bad house mate's who need to be controlled and maintained in order for things to run efficiently and smoothly.

I know i will hit some conflicting I's in the near future, but the aim is to see them fighting, i think. And to organize them into priorities. A simple example, for me, would be if i had to do some house work, but i also feel the need to relax and take some time to chill. The normal routine is to relax first, then clean later. But the outcome is not the best, as im rushing to clean up, causing stress after ive just de-stressed. So simply switching the order; cleaning first then relax, would have a whole different outcome by simply organizing priorities that will have optimal outcome - also giving control and order on my behalf.

Thank you luc, and everyone for the insight that was right before my eyes :)

 

[luc]

Thanks Alana for the insightful post.

I think you're right, it's more about finding a place to observe those little I's, about having a good "manager" or "conductor" - the employees don't have to know each other or love each other, they just need to become sensible under the influence of a good manager. And yes, we need to understand the background of those little I's, and maybe can talk also of traits, traumas, programs etc., and understand it as a "group therapy".

I will try the exercise of writing about those little I's - the way I intend to do it is to write a caption ("the job guy", "the nerd", "the insecure", "the extrovert storyteller", "the esoteric reader" etc.) and write a few things below the caption in the first person - "I feel like...", "I like doing..." etc., letting it flow. It already helps just thinking about this, so I'm sure that's a great exercise. Thank you for this!

It's dawning on me more and more that a lot of my tension and stress really come from the fighting between different little I's - the feeling when one of them tries to take the throne and is surprising the one sitting on the throne. This tension seems to fade away once I - the manager - observe the situation and can talk to the guys, like telling the intruder "I know you, and I value what you do, and don't worry, you will get your spot. But at the moment the situation calls for your colleague, I hope you understand." Or telling the one on the throne "Thanks for what you did, you did well! Right now I need the other guy for an important task, I hope that's okay for you." Instantly, I feel a lightness, a wholeness, an acceptance of the situation, difficult and delicate as it is. It's a lot harder of course in a situation of external pressure and/or if a little I gets triggered so fast that I fail to take notice...

 

[Deleted member 11729]

Thank you Luc for starting this thinking. Loved the way you explained how you see it, and others that follow on your thoughts.

It was for me just so rewarding to read it. Yesterday there was a funny "fight" with 2 or 3 of my I's, or better to say the "boss" wasn't sure if one of the 2 employees is taking right direction. ;)

But at one point "boss" gave a green light to the one of them, like trying to set in motion the real action, to test the fears of the other I - fear of the consequences if that I that got green light from "the boss", will that hurt the "abandoned" I with the privilege to have some time for it self. It was very funny though, it was lucky enough to have a friend with me who helped me guide it through, pealing all the layers of "protection" that the other I was signaling to the boss, in order to suppress the other I action. And after reading this, started the thinking of what is mechanic behind "boss" decision, which I is good or bad guy, and in this good and bad polarity - there is another trap there.

Conclusion is something like this - actually it is good to set up general mood of behavior for all I's. That general mood will be like a boss, something that will be overall characteristic of each of them, that will keep their function to be affirmative towards general personal modeling, insted to have good ones and bad ones fighting. And the "boss" actually made right decision, as the I that wanted to take over the opinion of the "boss" from the other I, was just simply fighting for its expression of negative prospects of new way to see and experience things. After the new experience was implemented, the other day, the I that was against "boss" decision, was trying to find the explanation why that I is still thinking that the "boss" shouldn't give the other I the green light to go, but it is obvious in the general personal mood that the Boss is satisfied, letting the feelings of programmed opinions that this judgemental I is pushing, to be seen actually through opposite light, that is not that positive as that I want's to think about itself. And at that point the bubling of thoughts and emotions starts, but some how a little inner conversation starts to see is there really anything to be worried about, that the "boss" decided to let a new experience to take place in my life.

And at the end main conclusion is that it was actually narrow minded to be scared of new experiences, just because there was no any possible guaranty that the final outcome will be good, while programmed thoughts wanted to say it will be wrong, but it was good in many aspects, and for me the most important was realization that my dominant I that I was thinking to be "loose and playfull" is actually very conservative control freak, to the level that my dominant I never realize it before.

Also what is interesting, and what came thorugh this experience in life and at the same time ability to have it reflected through your posts here on the forum, "the boss" is not "ME", and there is still confusion how all this decision making process happend to me.

 

[luc]

Thanks for sharing solarmind.

And at the end main conclusion is that it was actually narrow minded to be scared of new experiences, just because there was no any possible guaranty that the final outcome will be good, while programmed thoughts wanted to say it will be wrong, but it was good in many aspects, and for me the most important was realization that my dominant I that I was thinking to be "loose and playfull" is actually very conservative control freak, to the level that my dominant I never realize it before.

It's really interesting how we can discover things about ourselves that suddenly seem so obvious, but in fact we never realized them before! I think some of those "dominant I's" are really coping mechanisms, strategies that somehow worked for us in times of great despair, and that "stick with us". So maybe it would be worthwhile to explore why your dominant I thinks of itself as "loose and playful" but actually keeps you from exploring new things? I think maybe Martha Stouts book "The myth of sanity" could be an interesting read for you if you haven't read it already.

Also what is interesting, and what came thorugh this experience in life and at the same time ability to have it reflected through your posts here on the forum, "the boss" is not "ME", and there is still confusion how all this decision making process happend to me.

Yes, our minds are really confusing. Sometimes it seems to me as if I take one step forward and two steps backwards... Concerning "the boss", I think we shouldn't mistake one of our "dominant I's" as what I called "the manager", the one really trying to work with all those little I's to accomplish some balance. But maybe we can make one or more of those "dominant I's" accomplices, get them to Work with us. It seems that's what you're doing: observing yourself and the zoo of little I's, thinking about them and their roles, sharing your observations - I think that's great and already a huge step forward!

 

[Deleted member 11729]

It's really interesting how we can discover things about ourselves that suddenly seem so obvious, but in fact we never realized them before! I think some of those "dominant I's" are really coping mechanisms, strategies that somehow worked for us in times of great despair, and that "stick with us". So maybe it would be worthwhile to explore why your dominant I thinks of itself as "loose and playful" but actually keeps you from exploring new things? I think maybe Martha Stouts book "The myth of sanity" could be an interesting read for you if you haven't read it already.

O yes ... it is so rewarding to let the game between I's to be played, and at the same time to create a check point from where all this different aspects can be observed in corelation. This "extension" of mind, "The Boss / Manager", that is not any of the I's, but some overall outer, but at the same time internal force behind decision making process, is fantastic cognitive and personal expirience, if nothing more, just to be able to come to that point is a big step.

What is also fantastic is realization of how trickery works - dominant I that create his image like loose and playfull is such a master of delusions, and once recognized, most of it's trickery start to be so visible, to the point that it is difficult to believe that all of it's scenarios are so well plotted, that all other I's are just assimilated to serve this one, so all of a suden there was something, some force within, that enabled "the boss" to be able to sort out things ... and once that dominant I get stooped for few hours, the whole system changed. Even that dominant I start to laugh to itself, blushing a bit how silly it was to think that it can rule the whole other rich system ... and that is probably where the Work starts, and also where the Work can be suppressed, but still with thinking that it started ...

so this morning I read the article that helped a lot to puzzle this little I's game. Maybe you already spotted it, but if not, fantastic read!

http://www.sott.net/article/298444-Exploring-higher-dimensions-The-power-of-active-consciousness

And thank you for the book recommendation, I'll get it on my kindle :)

 

[Andrian]

Thank you Luc for opening this thread and sharing with all of us your insights on this very important topic, the interesting fact is that i started to reread the ISOTM by Ouspensky the past week and just a couple of days ago browsing on the forum through the most recent posts i found your thread, to be honest at first i didn't read it( some weak and lazy little I was in charge at that moment that was whispering to me to read it later), then in the next couple of days continuing to read the book i started to be a little more attentive(more awake about the chaos inside my own house) to all this little I's inside me, how they operate and so forth, so today when visiting the forum i saw again your thread and this time i really was interested to read it and i must say that i'm glad i did because how you explained this important part of the Work was profound, objective and very insightfull and helpfull so thank you for that. I don't have anything wise to add, other members who posted on this thread gave very good advices and very good observations also, so for the moment I'll try to stick to your advices and will try to clean and dispel the chaos step by step( created by those many little I's) inside my home.

 

[mabar]

Thank you very much too Luc, I like the way you explain and share your experiences about evil I's, had not worked either to demonized them, I had ended up being bitter and they do not seem to leave neither. Other thing that had happend is that I tend to disregard those I's that I had observed that had came from/or influenced by exterior, so the "self-acceptance" is fragmented, I do not accept myself at all. And I think that is a critical point, in which other I's manifested themselves, rebelling.

Thank you very much, Luc. I think that's a good approach, because it's a bit like Lobaczewski described as being important: adding moralizing values (trying to destroy I's because they are "evil" psycho-servants) doesn't allow us to solve the problem. One has to look at the situation, observe it, deal with it, train it like a muscle, and little by little, a real understanding and "chief" will emerge.

And, with doing this long enough, every I can have its place, and actually work with the others in more synchrony. Like the one who likes his job, and the one reading esoteric books, and the cook: the one that got the time to work, brings money home, which then allows for buying books and food, which then allows the cook to make dinner, which then allows the reader to be nourished and read better and share what he's read with the others, and the worker to get up and work tomorrow, and they can all live happily ever after. :P

I liked more the orchestra example, I suppose because lately I had been hearing instrumental music and every single sound is there and is important to the whole aim of performing that piece. And not all music pieces have the same instruments, other have regional ones, or traditionals. And because I suppose I would like to vary, deputy steward like job is something I do for an income and at home.

You are totally right about the draining aspect. Whenever I'm most drained, is really whenever I don't allow myself to express some of those aspects/servants. It was very well put.

It happends to me too, although had not found how to allow myself to express those aspects before they express themselves without my consent, snapping, for example. Although I had been doing less and less, I would like to have more tolerance to frustration.

note: had not complete reading the thread, will do in further days, wanted to post it before time and other activities go in the middle.

 

[luc]

I just wanted to share a little experience with the writing exercise Alana suggested.

The other day a little I was activated that hasn’t been around for a couple of weeks – the "ham radio nerd". This one is really enthusiastic about amateur radio – and I like him, he brought me into contact with all kinds of interesting people, helped me to prepare for bad events where communication is crucial and helped me gaining interesting skills and building more self-confidence in certain areas. However, this little I can get very obsessive, and sometimes hates to „leave the throne“ to the point that it gets really cranky.

So I was in that mode, and the real I (or the „manager“) was conscious of what was going on, but still I couldn’t stop it and was subjected to the whims of this particular little I. So what I did was I forced myself to do the little writing exercise. I already had prepared a list with a few little I’s before, and the „ham radio nerd“ was part of it. So what I did was I wrote a few sentences about this little I, which made sense since it was very close to me at that moment. I basically wrote something along the lines „I really love doing this, I’m always afraid I won’t have enough time for expressing myself, I always feel threatened“ etc.

And sure enough, immediately after I wrote this and „put it out there“, I felt great, relaxed, balanced and ready to let other little I’s in. And I didn’t have to „force“ the ham radio guy out, he just was contend in the background and still checking in! And this writing exercise took me just 5 minutes...

So what I will do is whenever I realize a certain little I is dominating me and this causes some form of trouble, I will fill out my list, writing a sentence or two about that particular little I.

Thanks again Alana for suggesting this!

 

[Anthony]

Trying to get rid of these I's leads to rigidity and even further identification with them in my experience. And just being able to see the lot of them and remember them is extremely difficult, sometimes it seems like I fully understand something and then it is lost the next day. So it's like a roller coaster ride with ups and downs, but it's important to keep on doing your best, and eventually, like a muscle something could come out of the struggle.

 

[Thebull]

Trying to get rid of these I's leads to rigidity and even further identification with them in my experience. And just being able to see the lot of them and remember them is extremely difficult, sometimes it seems like I fully understand something and then it is lost the next day. So it's like a roller coaster ride with ups and downs, but it's important to keep on doing your best, and eventually, like a muscle something could come out of the struggle.

During the work are we trying to get rid of the "I's"? Is it a case of recognising them but not identifying with them and letting them take hold. You can watch them in full attention until they run there course. I know there are many different i's that like to get involved. I don't feel they are something you can get rid off. They are programs to know and be aware of so they don't get a hold and control the machine osit.

I agree this is extremely difficult and my awareness hasn't got to a level where I am in control. I will keep on working though and as suggested all you can do is your best.

 

[ARC]

Remarkable.

This is a new concept for me - the little I's. Just reading the top initial post I felt like this will set the stage to enable me to succeed at anything I set my mind to.

In Chu's post with reference to dieting and other self-improvement efforts - what if you include the "cheat" in the original diet plan? I came up with this idea and it seems to help - I included hershey bar in my diet plan, eating one half in the beginning of the day and saving the other half for night-time snack. I'm not talking about cake and ice cream, a delicious pie, or a king-sized Snickers, just plain old Hershy's chocolate or with almond. Even though chocolate is high in sugar, almonds high in fat content (but they are nutricious), and perhaps certain kinds of calories can go a long way toward implementing the healthy and low-cal foods you choose for your diet, especially if they take away that feeling that something is missing - which can also help to keep you on an even keel insofar as all of the things you're doing in your day besides losing weight.

Now, it may sound like I'm missing the point of the little I's but I'm actually suggesting that an "orchestra" must be fine-tuned to be successful. A tuba may not lead the symphony, but without it the overall effect is incomplete.

ARC

Something completely different: (I'm copy/pasting this because I don't know how to use the quote to get just the part I want)

"The alternation of I's, their continual obvious struggle for supremacy, is controlled by accidental external influences. Warmth, sunshine, fine weather, immediately call up a whole group of I's. Cold, fog, rain, call up another group of I's, other associations, other feelings, other actions. There is nothing in man able to control this change of I's, chiefly because man does not notice, or know of it; he lives always in the last I. Some I's, of course, are stronger than others. But it is not their own conscious strength; they have been created by the strength of accidents or mechanical external stimuli. Education, imitation, reading, the hypnotism of religion, caste, and traditions, or the glamour of new slogans, create very strong I's in man's personality, which dominate whole series of other, weaker, I's. But their strength is the strength of the 'rolls' in the centers. And all I's making up a man's personality have the same origin as these 'rolls'; they are the results of external influences; and both are set in motion and controlled by fresh external influences.

I'm wondering how other on the forum perceive the recent hype about Obama being muslim and the muslim intentions being very strongly organized to destroy western culture and implement Sharia law. Some of the things I'm seeing and hearing is initially quite frightening, followed by skepticism for those who perpetrate paranoia - yet I don't think this is something that should necessarily be totally discounted without review.

ARC

Edit:fixed quotes