Wikileaks - Julian Assange Discussion

[Guardian]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

Personally I don't trust nor believe in sites like wikileaks. LIke C`s once said , it is 3D STS world , so EVERYTHING is done on purpose.

Oh I understand completely, I have a serious distrust of any site/org with the word "Christian" in it ...but ya know, sometimes ya just gotta look beyond your own assumptions and see what the site/org is actually trying to do. :)

 

[D69]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

Yup Guardian , I agree that we should objectively look at everything and definitely look beyond our own assumptions.
Anyway , a was thinking a bit about it a while ago and came up with even better idea :)
Imagine this scenario. Let's say someone has a lot of very important classified informations gathered from all over the world , like hackers for example.
Now , all you have to do is to convince hackers to give that infos away freely.
Let's take an example of that vid from Iraq published on wleak. You could make 2 offers to various govs. Let's say , to US gov and at the same time to people supporting Iraq. Depending on a better price , you could :

option nr. 1 which would , in US govs eyes be better , is to delete video and promise you would not release it , you end up with a large bucket of dollars plus no one ever knew that info existed

option nr 2 which would be better for people supporting Iraq : Publish a video. You will get an even larger bucket of dollars , plus you would end up as an hackitvist which exposes evil US gov at the same time gaining more support from hackers that are giving information away.

This is only one example of 1000's that could have been accomplished. Also it could explain why not all articles are published. There is only one problem , person who supplied an info in a first place is the only one who wanted info published (a hacker or insider) so as an info manager (wleaks) you have to get rid of that person before he exposes you (Manning ?). In both cases person who owns an information wins big time !

Like I said , it is pure speculation , but it is better to keep in mind other possibilities than to blindly believe that there are noble guys in a world around us because seriously there are not so many , especially in IT (IMO of course ) ;)

 

[Guardian]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

This is only one example of 1000's that could have been accomplished. Also it could explain why not all articles are published.

Aside from the fact that gigs of material gets submitted and there are just so many hours in a day, another explanation for why not all articles are published could be the preservation of human lives. In the scenario you're proposing, the geeks would have to CAREFULLY screen all information provided to them to insure that posting it wouldn't result in the death of those exposed. They would need to separate past events from ongoing actions with people in the field, even if those field agents represented a repressive government...because they are still human beings. It would be necessary to give all involved participants advanced warning that sensitive and potentially dangerous information was about to be made public.

There is a HUGE chasm of difference between embarrassing a person and/or government, and getting a person, or multiple people killed. Anyone trying to do what Wikileaks claims to be doing would be taking on an enormous moral responsibility in addition to painting a big red bull's eye on their back.

Like I said , it is pure speculation , but it is better to keep in mind other possibilities than to blindly believe that there are noble guys in a world around us because seriously there are not so many , especially in IT (IMO of course ) ;)

A guy with Julian's skills and knowledge could make a fortune in the private sector..... he could be floating around on his private yacht, sipping champain, surrounded by the "beautiful people." Instead, he lives on other geek's couches, never knowing when some government assassin is going to put a bullet in his brain.

If geeks like Julian were motivated by money, there are MUCH easier ways for them to rake in the cash. If geeks like Julian were motivated by sex, there are MUCH easier ways for them to attract the ladies (or gents) If geeks like Julian were motivated by power over others, there are MUCH easier ways to control the sheeple.

When you take money, sex and power out fo the equation, what's left?

 

[Guardian]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

I heard that also. This of course begs the question, so then where did they come from? Of course...even if they did come from a group of Chinese hackers that sniffed Tor, would Assange ever actually admit that and risk revealing his sources and/or methods?

No ...in fact, Julian still maintains Wikileaks does not know, nor have ANY evidence to prove who sent in the civilian attack vid. Wikileaks does not keep any logs, and original snail mailings are destroyed once they've been digitized.

This is what really concerns me. And I guess it all boils down to who is receiving the leaks, and who is getting to decide what actually gets released and when. I can't imagine they all go directly to, from, and through Assange, and if not all the members involved in the procedure even know each other, let alone identify and communicate only with initials, it would be all too easy, and truly impossible to ever even know. Possibly even for Assange? Maybe he actually does not know who he is working with?

Hmmm...a large network of intelligent people, some of whom maintain a certain amount of anonymity, who bounce info off each other in an objective search for truth. Now where have I heard that idea before? ;D

 

[Gonzo]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

The leadership of any human organization is going to be vulnerable to ego and emotional thinking, no matter how much benevolence guides them. That is, unless they feed themselves through a form of objective feedback loop to point out where emotional or egoistic influences are having an effect, OSIT.

I don't pretend to know the inner workings of WL, but I do believe that if it were to ever become a significant threat to the PTB, it would be taken care of, one way or another, be it through discrediting, infiltration, beaming thoughts, etc. Unless they are prepared and shielded against such things, bearing in mind hyperdimensional and time travel components abilities of the PTB and those aiding them.

I really don't know much about the top echelon of WL and certainly don't know to what extent they have been able to raise their individual and collective FRV sufficient to afford a greater degree of protection.

But I do have some insight into both the hacker and open source communities and do know that there are some who seem to be aligned with a notion of serving for the benefit of all (although from within a belief structure that what they do is for the benefit of all).

So, it is, IMO, possible that a group can be formed by a benevolent person, surrounding themself with like-minded and hopefully like-aligned (STO) individuals, with planning and care being taken to protect the group so it can accomplish its goals; to give people a chance to see the lies that surround them; to shine light on darkness so all can come to informed conclusions.

Gee, where have I seen an example of this before??? LOL

However, the likelihood that sufficient knowledge of hyperdimensional realities, the feeding cycles, DNA manipulations, the predator's mind, the predator, etc., would be quite rare and therefore the group will eventually succumb to the 3rd density matrix control system one way or another (if it hasn't already), OSIT.

In my mind, I neither believe nor disbelieve in WL benevolence, I just remain vigilant.

I do caution those who believe 100% in it though, as it would be virtually impossible to know everything one would need to know to come to such a conclusion and therefore, makes one a good vector to invest their energy into affecting other people's beliefs.

With respect,
Gonzo

Edit - fixed punctuation.

 

[Guardian]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

The leadership of any human organization is going to be vulnerable to ego and emotional thinking, no matter how much benevolence guides them. That is, unless they feed themselves through a form of objective feedback loop to point out where emotional or egoistic influences are having an effect, OSIT.

Yup, anyone who doesn't surround themselves with thinking people isn't thinking. :)

I really don't know much about the top echelon of WL and certainly don't know to what extent they have been able to raise their individual and collective FRV sufficient to afford a greater degree of protection.

It's been almost 5 years now, and they're still on-line...planning to really embarrass a "super power" ....AGAIN. For me...actions really do speak louder than words.

But I do have some insight into both the hacker and open source communities

Then you probably know that there's a huge difference between a real, dedicated "hacker" and a mouthy script kiddie?

However, the likelihood that sufficient knowledge of hyperdimensional realities, the feeding cycles, DNA manipulations, the predator's mind, the predator, etc., would be quite rare

What a coincidence, I hear that networks like Wikileaks are quite rare too ;D

I do caution those who believe 100% in it though, as it would be virtually impossible to know everything one would need to know to come to such a conclusion

Well yeah, considering the fact that "everything" we know changes on a minute by minute bases...that's pretty good advice in most, if not all situations :)

 

[D69]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

Gonzo wraped all my thoughts in one perfect sentence :D

I do caution those who believe 100% in it though, as it would be virtually impossible to know everything one would need to know to come to such a conclusion and therefore, makes one a good vector to invest their energy into affecting other people's beliefs.

When you take money, sex and power out fo the equation, what's left?

Psychopathy, narcisism ? :D

 

[Guardian]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

When you take money, sex and power out fo the equation, what's left?

Psychopathy, narcisism ? :D

OK..and what does a psychopath and/or narcissist really desire except money, sex, and/or power?

 

[D69]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

I can imagine that such person would desire to be for example respected , because of complexes maybe ?
Or as psychopath would desire to harm someone and get sick pleasure out of it ?
I do not exactly know so I cannot be specific but also I do not think that money, sex and power is everything that psychopaths or narcissists could desire.

 

[Guardian]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

I can imagine that such person would desire to be for example respected , because of complexes maybe ?

I would consider this an example of a desire for power over others...I don't think psychopaths can actually understand the concept of "respect"

Or as psychopath would desire to harm someone and get sick pleasure out of it ?

This one could be a desire for power/control over another...which could also be linked to sexual gratification.

I do not exactly know so I cannot be specific but also I do not think that money, sex and power is everything that psychopaths or narcissists could desire.

Kewl...if you happen to think of anything a psychopath might desire except money, sex, and/or power over others, please let me know, and I'll add it to my list :)

 

[D69]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

fair play mate :D

 

[Laura]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

After all these years reading cases and studies and observing, I think that the only thing that drives psychopaths is hunger for power over others one way or another. Everything else is just a means to this end. Even destroying others - which they do a lot - is only a means to express that power. It is the assimilation of others to the self - psychophagia: soul eating.

 

[go2]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

There is another category of writer and self-proclaimed authority on the subjects of secrecy, intelligence, and containment. This man is the suave, professional parasite who gains a reputation as a real reporter by disseminating the scraps and "Golden Apples" thrown to him by the great men who use him. This writer seldom knows and rarely cares that many of the scraps from which he draws his material have been planted, that they are controlled leaks, and that he is being used, and glorified as he is being used, by the inside secret intelligence community.

I suggest anyone who lacks or desires context and insight into the the intelligence world, leaks, and information control take a few hours to read L. Fletcher Prouty's work Secret Team which is linked in the quote above. It is possible you will view and understand Julian Assange and Wikileaks with new insight rather than mere wishful thinking after reading Secret Team.
L. Fletcher Prouty contends that Daniel Ellsberg released the Pentagon Papers on behalf of the secret team's cover story and it is possible he still does their work.

 

[Guardian]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

I suggest anyone who lacks or desires context and insight into the the intelligence world, leaks, and information control take a few hours to read L. Fletcher Prouty's work Secret Team which is linked in the quote above.

Good book.... I enjoyed it a lot.

It is possible you will view and understand Julian Assange and Wikileaks with new insight rather than mere wishful thinking after reading Secret Team.

Nope ....Prouty didn't write anything in "Secret Team" that made me suddenly want to listen to anonymous slander....I still prefer to look at evidence and results. :)

 

[go2]

Re: Soldier Betrayed by Online Informant with Wikileaks

I still prefer to look at evidence and results.

We have a vector for you, the Secret Team informs.